The Politics Thread

[GoldenDogs]

I can't hear Ryan, actually. Biden doesn't stop talking... and the moderator is debating Ryan, herself... weird...

[Ann_SS]

Kudos to the Vice President! He killed! Obama owes him a cookie.

[quartermainefan]

Great debate. I don;t know if I would say Biden killed, because Ryan wasn't killed. Ryan still has that phony, robotic speaking style which I can't believe he actually talks like that in his own home, but he did come across as someone who at least as some knowledge of the issues, even if it is knowledge enough to lie or not look there like a blank fool. He almost walked into a quagmire when he attempted to compare himself to John Kennedy. We know how that worked out the last time this happened at a debate and Biden was on high alert ready to pounce but Ryan wisely dropped the tactic.

Biden was as I thought he would be: combative, giving no inch, and willing to call a liar a liar. I think though Ryan has a bit of armor in his smiling demeanor that remains perpetually serene, and Biden was not really able to make Ryan crack. I think both guys did a good job but both had stumbles. Biden has no answer for why Obama's promises didn't bear fruit, and Ryan still has no specifics and no answers for his pie in the sky claims of budget balancing magic. I wish they could have another debate because this undercard is better and more entertaining than the title bout.

Edited October 12, 2012 by quartermainefan

[GoldenDogs]

Q-Fan, I know I don't often agree with you on politics/policy... but I definitely recognize that you are one of the most fair-minded, least partisan people in the forum. I know where you stand but your honest assessments are appreciated.

I believe Biden scored more points... I think his demeanor was a little weird, though, and it may have turned some off. While I won't go so far as to say it was rude or disrespectful, I do think it was strange. I found myself tuning out the dialogue and just watching him.

Ryan finally found his voice late in the debate, but it was too late to score a win. He knew who he was going up against and he should have grown a pair before walking out on stage. He also needed to counter the moderator... she was ridiculous and, at one point, seemed to be actually debating Ryan. Biden, himself, seemed to square off against her at the end for some reason... then the silly 15 second versus 40 second thing... ummm, okay.

Based on Biden's strange demeanor, I'm going to say I really think it was a toss-up. I don't think Biden did what he needed to do, which was score a knock-out. The main event is next week, anyway. This debate won't change anybody's mind. It might slow the current Romney surge... but it won't stop it.

[quartermainefan]

I am very partisan and have almost nothing good to say about republicans and their anti-intellectualism, religious zealotry, their fear of female sexuality (as seen in all orthodox religions) and their disgraceful 80 year quest to destroy social security, their race and gay baiting ways, and the way they have adopted this sickening world view that it is every man for himself and we all just coincidentally live on the same land mass. I don't care for hicks, and I don't like fundies, and I have no use those who want to tell everyone what porn they can watch and who they can have sex with.

That said, I still have to call it like I see it even if I see something that doesn't flatter a non-republican.

[Ann_SS]

I think my favorite part of the debate was when Ryan trotted out the usual lie about how the stimulus money went to political cronies, only for Biden to whip out the info that Ryan wrote him two letters begging for stimulus money saying that it would create jobs and growth. I laughed as Ryan physically cringed. The moderator asked Ryan if he did ask for the money and Ryan was forced to admit that he did and then asked Biden if Ryan got the money, to which he responded yes and that they sent Ryan millions and that he just wish that Ryan would be more candid. Ha.

I hope that Obama's advisors show him that clip over and over again. That is how you close the trap when your opponent walks into it. Biden did his job. He reawakened the Democrats enthusiasm. Now it is up to Obama to finish fixing the self-inflicted damage in the upcoming debate.

Oh, I also liked how Biden directly rebutted Romney's insulting 47 percent by reminding the audience who those people really are.

Also, kudos to Martha Raddatz for calling Ryan, Congressman and pushing for specifics. It really does take a woman to do the job right. She schooled Jim Lehrer who needs to retired.

Edited October 12, 2012 by Ann_SS

[Roman]

But if you look at any of the cable news media this morning, they say that Ryan did a great job. This goes back to what wales and others have said...the MSM will do and say anything to keep this thing close for their networks. Never mind calling it like it really is...

Biden whupped that little boy's backside last night.

[Wales2004]

So a portion of the media is calling the debate a draw. It seems to me that they are stuck on Joe Biden's facial expressions for which they gave him deductions in "style points."

All the Independents who see things anywhere close to me would have gotten a kick out of that because I tried to keep myself from laughing watching the lies coming out of that puppet head. And when he was about to claim that he would bring honesty......

[Wales2004]

I swear it's like walking around and being convinced that I am stuck in an alternate universe and everyone has gone insane. No one should take CNN's 31 person Focus Group seriously. As soon as Erin Burnett reported their results--I could see what was wrong with government. We just all need to be honest that there are far too many stupid people out there running things and it' not just my opinion.....it's a fact.

[Ann_SS]

Well, the NY Times editorial and articles and several Post articles called Biden the winner. Regardless, the narrative on the Democrat side is that Biden won and this has reawakened their enthusiasm. What matters now is that Obama wake the hell up, follow Biden's example. Obama needs to aggressively take on Romney in their next debate. Obama need to go on the offensive weave in the 47 percent and the Republican obstructionism, and Romney's flip flopping when answering the audience's questions.

Edited October 12, 2012 by Ann_SS

[Wales2004]

I hear these criticisms of Barack Obama and I don't know whether certain liberals in the media are right or wrong when they say that he avoids looking angry because he's trying not to fit some racial stereotype of the "angry black man." Maybe it's not in his character but if he really does minimize his passion for the reasons they believe then that's utterly ridiculous. I cannot imagine that any display of anger is going to make him come across as frightening and scary. And even if that were the case....so what? Ignorant people aren't going to be any less ignorant because you go out of your way to avoid whatever stereotypes their puny brains have in them.

[Ann_SS]

I don't buy that claim because Obama has been angry in public lots of times, especially during interviews when he is challenged. Besides there is a difference between going on the offensive and aggressively defending his record and being angry. I see him do the former all the time on the campaign trail and in interviews. For whatever reason, he gave a bad performance in the first debate. It caused serious damage to his campaign with sixty-seven million people who watched that debate. He cannot afford a repeat performance.

[quartermainefan]

Upon sleeping on it, the draw thing I think is false. Biden won because of the exchange on Afghanistan, the exchange where Ryan was forced to admit he took money and the Jack Kennedy moment.

It is easy to see why the press are saying Ryan won on style, because the country loves bland people and think that means presidential. Maybe it does, but I would rather have a fast talking guy who loves to argue as an exercise because that means his brain is active and able to adjust and respond in the moment. And that is where Obama has always been lacking. He will not repeat Biden's performance because he physically can't. The easiest thing is go back and look at the clips where they were talking over each other, and then try to figure out if there is a way to physically interrupt someone in their lying if your interruption is filed with "umm, uhhh, ummmm <pause> uhhh". By the time he spits out any point, the moment will have passed.

[Wales2004]

MSNBC's group bring that sort of thing up on seemingly regular basis along with some of the Current TV crowd. Maybe they all just feel compelled to make excuses for whatever shortcomings they perceive in Barack Obama, or his not being the version they want . Chris Matthews has that version thing real bad.

I don't suppose Barack Obama will be that weak again. The bar for him is so low now that if he keeps his head up for most of the debate, he will have exceeded it.

[dragonflies]

Mitt Romney is in my town tonight, we're the 47% he looks down on