ALL: Are you a Nixon or a Bell??

[cct]

Sedrick, your thoughts are always so thorough and appreciated. IT was heartbreaking for me to see AMC become whitewashed over the last ten years. Where were the Fryes, the Santos? I always contend that the disappearance of minorities on AMC was when we really began to see the ratings fall; they were all basically gone by the late 90s and that's when AMC began dropping from #2. In truth, I wonder if that isn't what is happening to Y&R to some extent, with Drucilla gone and the movement (I presume) of the AA characters to the back burner. THe truth is, I feel anyone who would put on a strong Latina family with many types of personalities and not just a boatload of caricatures would do aces. Carmen could open the door for AMC in this respect, since someone decided to squander and then kill Julia.

[EricMontreal22]

Yeah--B&E deserve props for adding colour back to the show, at any rate. I do think AMC when it was so huge was huge partly cuz of all the minorities who watched it--ditto with Y&R. that said the ratings started to drop in '96, even thought he qualityw as still on screen--there were many factors (DAYS' huge rise, and the fact it was on opposite AMC in many markets, being a large one)

[Sedrick]

IMO opinion, AMC in particular began losing its large African-American audience in the mid 1990's....I know a lot of viewers I spoke with personally tuned out around the time of the voodoo hijinks in the Caribbean...and many long-time watchers stopped watching in disgust following the "Erica steals Maria's baby" plot, which truly appalled a lot of females.

[EricMontreal22]

Yep but as you say many viewers of all races tuned out around then--and that was when Lorraine Broderick was sitll doing a good job--the voodoo story was apparantly forced on her to make it a bit more DAYS ish). I remember how hated the Erica kidnapps Maddie storyline was at the time--funny as looking back it doesn't seem that bad--even a few years later when McTavcish did her awful second stint it didn't look bad

[cct]

Eric, I just wanted you to know that I finished the Nixon Legends Interview last night, and thank you, thank you, thank you, a million times for hookin' a guy up. What a great inside look from a fascinating woman...It was three hours long, and still I wanted more! I would've loved for her to dive more into what Nixon considered great story and how she came up with even more of the storylines, but I understand that may not have been the purpose of the interview, which was more archival.

[EricMontreal22]

Right--it IS a long interview, but like you, I actually wanted more--i found nearly every word she said so interesting. So glad you got so much out of it too.

that reminds me, I need to finish the Bill Bell interview--although it's frustrating that they don't seem to realize segment one is missing sound...

[EricMontreal22]

Well, I still can't find part 1 of Bill Bell's interview with sound, but I've made it through parts 2-5 (out of 7) now which goes right up to Y&R. It's MUCH harder to follow than Agnes Nixon's--there're some sound probs, the person doing the interview knows his facts WAY less than the woman (our own Connie/Marlena) doing Agnes' and so there are lots of awkward bits like where the interviewer asks what it was like when ATWT went to 30 mins from 15--when it started with 30, etc. But most disheartening is--I believe this was done around 2000-2002, he mentions Paul Rauch, who apparantly he used to work with at P&G in the 60s (!) as being at GL--Bill bell's own memory seems to be starting to fail him. He's stil a gracious, charming man, full of great anecdotes, but it can be hard to follow--he keeps confusing ATWT with GL, dates wrong, etc.

That said so far there have been some great tidbits and interesting facts into how he got into the bizz. Unlike Agnes, he was a copy editor for advertising who then went immediately to helping Irna write GL on TV (Irna only spoke to him cuz she was a fan of his wife apparantly). He says he's only met "Aggie"/Agnes a dozen times or so, never worked with her--though he does credit her, along with him and Irna's secretary Rose as all co creating As the World Turns. He says when he's had to leave a soap he feels no remorse and no interest in it anymore--he says it was a relief when Irna decided they shoudl drop Another World (which he talks about co creating and said ti was the first soap he actually created characters for)--and hementions that it was Agnes who then turned the show around brilliantly--though he says he doesn't knwo hwo she did it because he never watrched after that. He talks about how hard it was to start working at DAYS--irna was hurt he was leaving her, then he found out after getting the job that Ted Corday was dieing--and you can tell he's INSANELY fond of DAYS.

They talk a bit about credit--hwo soap books are confusing when you read who created ATWT (Irna solo? Irna with Agnes? etc) and Another World (Irna solo? with Bell? etc) and brings up Our Private World which had Bell as co creator on the titles. Bell admits he doesn't care too much about creator credits for those shows--humbly saying he was only an assistant--btu he insists he did nothing on Our Private World--then seems to remember he did do a lot of the writing. he says they got a 28% share which was actually good but at that time networks canceled anything that didn't get a 30% share or more--daytime and nightime.

When asked about some controversial stories (he claims it was never very hard to get stories passed by the censors back then--and actually says he's sad that the Standards and Practices department of the network had--aaccording to him--closed due to lack of funds ten years back) he beams at two of his fave DAYS stories--the Bill/Laura/Mickey triangle (I think that's the one--the love triangle that starte diwht a drunken rape and lasted 8 years) and the Tom Jr returns logn after the Korean war with a new face and amnesia and only his lab monkey recognizes him. it's great to see how excited he gets about these stories he remembers so vividly.

Apparantly then when Screen Gems who helped own DAYS asked him to write a new soap he was excited--he claims NBC already wanted him to make DAYS an hour but he refused and this was a sort of compromise--do anothe rsoap for them. But NBC wasn't interested so Screen Gems shopped it to CBS. He again says it wasn't hard to leave--he didn't get much money for DAYS (partly because he admit she's never ever had an agent) and was eager to own his product. This interested me--according to him he did NOTHING then for his credit as "overall head writer--or year logn story writer" or whatever nearly every book credits him with while Pat Falken Smith (who he hired and adored) wrote DAYS--I know that was the agreement that DAYS came up with to keep him as a writer on the show cuz of his contract. But he says it was in name only cuz Pat had her own stories she wanted to tell and he was fine with that. But then in other parts of the interview her seems to imply he DID write Days at the same time as Y&R...

Like I said a lot of it is confusing--which is too bad. He comes off as a gracious man--similar to Agnes--he never wants to speak ill of someone and whenever he does he always stresses why he felt someone acted that way, gives them the benefit of the doubt, etc. He also knwos his own importance and worth--he's humble in spots but overall is happy calling himself the king of daytime, bragging about Y&R's success, etc--and why shouldn't he be. I wish these interviews could be transcribed cuz they take a while to find all the interesting bits but there's a lot in there--I'll try to watch the last two parts tonight.

Oh! He also talks about how his writing changed--he says till the late 80s he always did long term story outlines (and he insisted on doing a lot of key dialogue himself so that the writers couldn't put their own stamp on something--though he says Kay Alden started tkaing over much of that) but aroudn that time he decided he'd rather not write yearly outlines and just let the story take him where he wanted to go--and CBS and crew were fine with that.

[EricMontreal22]

Finished the final two parts. Some interesting stuff. The interview was done in 1998--so earlier than I thought when Bell had just loosened his grip on Y&R. He talks about Kay lden and how fond he is of her--he met her because when she was doing her thesis she asked him for an interview--it was meant to be only 30 mins but went to several hours. Afterwards, he said if she ever wanted to write for soaps she should send him a sample script--and he forgot about her. Spring of 74, 6 months later, he got a script, he liked it and they started working--he says initially she was really poor at the older characters, but better than him at the teen characters so that's where she worked at first.

He talks about B&B and it sounds liek the plan was nearly from the start to give it over to his son after five years--he says he doesn't like all his son has done but most of it--and thinks "right now" (1998) he has especially "hot things" going on with the young characters on the show but would offer the advice to feature them at least three times a week in Summers. He says he'd be thrilled if B&B overtook Y&R in the ratings--but then says "but it'll never happen" and winks. Lots about his wife and how important she is to him and the show--why he keeps his kids so involved, etc. They ask him random questions about names again--he says that Agnes Nixon is definetly an amazing writer and woman, doesn't think much of the EP of Y&R in hte 80s (W H something?) and that's why he became EP of the show...

[Paul Raven]

Thanks for the summary,i have been meaning to watch all of this for ages.

I found it sad ,in light of his later illness, to see the memory lapses. I wonder if his stepping down was because the early stages had been noted.

I am interested that he didn't jell with Wes Kenney. It was Kenney who 'modernized'the show in the early 80's after John Conboy left.At that stage Bell was in Chicago,so the day to day look of the show was very much the exec producer in LA's department.

Would love to know what those differences were.

I had a Kay Alden interview from Soap opera Update talking about her taking over from Bell.The only thing I remember is that he over-rode her and said Danny should be written out. This was at the tinme that Callie was introduced and she thought Danny could be involved in a music type story mentoring Callie but Bill nixed it.

I wonder at what point he ceased to have any involvement.

[EricMontreal22]

There's one other name they ask him about and he is silent then says "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything--let's move on". Unfortunately, I've played it back over and over and it's WAY too unclear who the name is!

[dc11786]

I think you are referring to the 21:19 pause? The name is John Conboy, the original executive producer.

[EricMontreal22]

Oh! HAHAH I wonder why I had trouble hearing his name. I didn't realize they actively didn't get along when he left.

It's interesting talking about how he was forced into going to an hour--he still seems to resent it

[dc11786]

The interviewer definitely pronounced John like Shawn/Sean, which is probably why you had trouble understanding it. I spent nearly an hour trying to decipher Christine Jones' final speech from "Rituals" that someone gratiously put up on youtube a few months back.

I think a lot of the 'greats' really didn't like the hour format. I know Claire Labine isn't a fan and didn't Nixon fight going to an hour. I know economically the hour shows are less costly than two one half hour shows, but I feel the half hour is such a better format.

[EricMontreal22]

Yep in All her Children Agnes outright says she will NEVER allow the show to go to an hour *never* and then concededs she's doign a week of ahour eps (to lead into Ryan's Hope) just to show "how it should be done"

I dunno I'm kinda mixed on it--there are things an hour show can do that a 30 minute show can't--I don't think harding Lemay's writing woulda worked as well for 30 mins... for instance. but it's hard to have a small town feel I think with an hour soap... Then again B&B does NOTHIGN to take advantage of its 30 minute formula

[dc11786]

Out of curiousity, what kind of things cannot a half hour show do? American soaps tend to limit their casts at a half hour, which can limit the diversity of the canvas at the time. I think the half hour makes it hard to keep the hardly used vestiges of the past that are hardly used. At a half hour, you need a focus, where as the hour shows tend to be a bit all over the place at times. On the other hand, the small cast requires a tight focus. I do think the half-hour works better to create the community/family feel.

Regarding Lemay, I'm not sure what you quite mean. Are you referring to the constant cast turnover which would make establishing a core rather hard or are you referring to the fact that slow character driven stories need more time to play out? Granted I only saw one episode, but Lemay's "Lovers & Friends" was a rather interesting tale. Actually, at an hour, I would think the vignettes might get a bit boring. The synopses I've read from his time at "The Doctors" sound interesting as well. Most fans disagree, but I thought his work on "Strange Paradise" was one of the best times for the show.

At times, "The Bold & the Beautiful" takes advantage of the thirty minute format, but, from what I've seen, not lately. At its best, B&B can be a tight fast paced story about the Forrester family. When it is crap, the benefit is it's only thirty minutes.