EastEnders: Discussion Thread

[DRW50]

I can see why they brought him back, but I think they should have focused more on his romantic relationships. I wish they could have brought him back this year, while Carol and Bianca are both still there.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

I always thought it was incredibly lazy for Louise Berridge to say that Mark had to go because storyline possibilities had run out for him, and then to kill him off when he was gone.

I think she had little use for Mark because he wasn't a gangster, thug, or hardman. He was one of the nice guys. I hated what Berridge considered to be good masculinity on the show at this time.

Edited October 10, 2010 by Y&RWorldTurner

[DRW50]

Berridge seemed to love Alfie and Spencer though, and most of the Ferriera brothers were nice. But like you said I guess it might have to do with her not knowing how to create masculine characters who were nice (none of the above listed were all that masculine). She tried to write Martin as some type of tough figure, didn't she, until they gave that up.

I think it was laziness, some of it to do with Mark being nice, but I think a lot came with Mark being HIV-positive and Berridge not wanting to deal with that. Mark had been written into a corner over the previous few years and she used that opportunity to get rid of him.

Edited October 10, 2010 by CarlD2

[Y&RWorldTurner]

BTW, did you ever see that four-hander from 2003 with Sharon, Mark, Kat, and Alfie? In it, Sharon was talking Mark out of committing suicide after he found out his HIV medication was failing and tried to get him to realize that he had to live his final days out with a zest for life.

Edited October 10, 2010 by Y&RWorldTurner

[DRW50]

No, I haven't seen that. I haven't seen a lot of the first months of 2003. I wish they still did so many two and four handers as they did back then. It's nice that the show tried to reconnect Mark and Sharon. I wonder what that would have been like as a relationship. Probably not a good idea I guess.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

I hated Martin during that time, and though I don't like Sonia, I never believed that she would want to be with him after he ran Jamie over, whether it was intentional or not.

The writing for women during this time added to her warped view of masculinity on the show. I mean Kat being blackmailed into sex with Andy, Little Mo being raped a second time, and Sharon being sucked of all of her personality so she could just become an extension of Dennis and Den? A lot of her choices for women during this era was really ill-advised.

[DRW50]

Yeah, you're right. I guess there was Chrissie as an alternative. Otherwise it was usually a lot of women being duped or being about men. You forgot about Kate and Sam. (I think it was Hutchinson who did the sick Den/Zoe stuff wasn't it).

I keep forgetting that Julia's Theme was used when Anthony proposed to Zoe. Why? I never liked anything about that relationship.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Funny thing is, I don't think Chrissie even came into her own until Berridge was gone, same with Stacey. It was really Hutchinson and Harwood that developed those characters. 2005, when Chrissie dominated, was mostly Harwood.

No idea, that's another strange one. I hated Zoe/Anthony. I loved how awful Kat was towards them for most of their time together.

There's a nice one from that era when Little Mo was released from prison and all the Slater's (barring Zoe) gathered at the Vic and Julia's Theme kicked in to show how close they were and how they'd get over the rough patch they went though that year.

[DRW50]

I guess I was thinking of the haircut from hell scene, and some other scene which a lot of people mention, where she exposed the professor Vicky was sleeping with. I do think that the next year was probably the making of her. It's odd Harwood got a lot of that right and got so much of 2006 wrong. Of course some blame that on John Yorke. Who knows.

Seeing the tension between Charlie and Kat makes me miss the Slater dynamics. Kat on her own seems lost. I know that in some ways it's an insult to just whip up another Slater, like these out of nowhere McQueens of the last few years, but I wouldn't mind seeing the show do that.

I wonder how much is still transition and if that explains any pacing issues. It's hard to know when to invest in a story, although I think the actors are at their best. I've never believed the claims that the show has had its strongest cast ever in these last few years but I think that over the past months the acting has really been very strong from almost everyone and those who aren't the best are then pulled up to a better level.

Perry Fenwick always does his best no matter what the material, which is why I'm hoping this story will be a success and he'll get even more to do. There's still a lot you can do with Billy, which is why I never understood why people said he should be axed. It's characters like Minty you really couldn't do anything with. You can't do a lot with Heather either. I kind of wonder if she might be gone sometime next year.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

I always kind of hoped that if they were to write Billy out, they'd bring back Little Mo for him and they'd leave together. I still hold that pairing to be Billy's best pairing.

Apparently, Derek Martin said that even though he was sad to be axed, he was asked to extend his stay a bit for a story, so I guess Charlie is leaving a bit later than we expected.

I think the show will be in transition until the new storylining team is credited, and even that will take a while.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

I also found this use of Julia's Theme for Grant and Courtney's final scene to be odd for some reason. Like it really shouldn't be used, even if they were leaving.

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On the topic of Grant/Courtney. I never believed killing Tiffany off was any big mistake. I hated the final year of that character where she was using the same "Why doesn't Grant love me?!?!" dialogue over and over again, even though I don't think she really loved him either. The only thing I miss about that character was her friendship with Bianca, who hasn't had a real friend since.

Edited October 10, 2010 by Y&RWorldTurner

[DRW50]

I kind of feel for Kirkwood because people start to say they don't want to hear anymore about transitions and everything has to be on his shoulders now but it's not quite that simple with a many-headed dragon like Eastenders. I think the show's generally quite good at the moment and my only main complaint (aside from making Kat pregnant and bringing in Michael Moon so quickly) would be pacing, which probably does have something to do with transition. Some stuff that people complain about is longstanding or from stories Santer started (like Jane being baby-obsessed and crazy-eyed). There's also the whole oh what has been done to Ronnie and Jack, when Santer pretty much destroyed that relationship anyway. Hopefully a fuller picture will come when Lucy is recast and when the Masoods get more storylines -- I know some fans are upset they have rarely been seen but after the butchery on Zainab and Masood thanks to the Syed story, they needed a break. I just hope their future material is better for them.

Do you think Little Mo/Billy would work if he stayed on the show and she came back for good (I hope she has better hair now)?

They seem to have extended the exits of Charlie, Jean, and Stacey. I wonder if that means they have something else planned for Christmas.

It was cheap. They were saying goodbye to Ross Kemp (too bad they couldn't have given him anything interesting to do). Their personal issues came out again when they didn't give Pauline a Julia's Theme because they didn't like Wendy.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

I don't know, I know many felt that Little Mo as a character was tapped out of story potential by the time she left. Though, I think the way they ruined that relationship was horrible. Little Mo helped Billy see a good side to himself, and he helped her heal after the Trevor fiasco. They were really there for each other in their time of need.

I think Lynne probably has more potential as a character than Little Mo, and I actually think she would be a great barmaid for Kat and Alfie at the Vic.

I don't even know why Grant returned for that second stint, he was completely useless, and they totally brushed over his relationship with Sharon, in fact, there was barely any substantial interaction there.

[DRW50]

I guess they just figured they should fit him in as long as they could whether they had a story or not. Did he help the ratings any?

I never liked Grant very much, although I did appreciate his charisma, so I was never attached to him the way a lot of fans were.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

I think there was a bit of a ratings bump during that time, but it could also be due to the overall Den murder plot, which involved so many characters and all of the show's big characters.

Grant is probably the show's definitive iconic character of the 90's, just slightly edging out his brother Phil.

The 80's definitive iconic characters were definitely Den and Angie.

For the 00's, it's definitely Kat Slater, and then Stacey Slater. No other characters created in the past 10 years have had the impact of these two.

Sharon is the character that links together all the popular eras of the show, more so than Ian and Dot really.

It should be interesting to see what characters arise in this decade, and if any of the new characters will have any lasting impact. Every decade so far has had one or two really big and definitive characters of their respective eras.

Edited October 10, 2010 by Y&RWorldTurner