die starr die!!

And I will enjoy every single second of it.

You won't be the only one.

Cole was under duress. He is forgiven for that bout of douchebaggery.

Hmmm....I'm just surprised you didn't blame it on the steroids.

Now that is something I've been waiting for, for YEARS.

She's gonna slap Dorian so hard her teeth will rattle. lol

I wish we could just one more Vicki and Dorian throw down. Their fights were one of the main reasons I'd watch OLTL when I was a kid LOL.

More great conflict today!

I thought Starr was SPOT ON when talking about Cole's idiocy in betraying his mother's memory by going to the man who hurt her most in her life. But she's telling him like he didn't know all the ways Todd has hurt Marty, and he probably knows or has faced them more than Starr has. I would guess.

I don't really care who is worse, Marcie or Todd, because I LOVE their scenes together. And Trevor St. John played it so differently this time, he wasn't going off, calling Marcie a bitch (I did love him calling her Michael's degenerate wife) and every time Michael tried to usher Todd out, Todd was just like "it's okay, it's okay" and kept talking to Marcie, brushing Michael off. LOL!

Before the baby Tommy/Sam saga happened, I always wanted Marcie and Todd in the same orbit because she seemed like Todd's moral opposite. I thought it would have been good if Marcie (a writer, once upon a time) had gone to work for Todd at The Sun and they would have been begrudging friends as she tried to steer the paper toward more upstanding journalism and Todd towards the good guy side. BUT, I actually like this dynamic now so much better because they are both enormously flawed individuals with so many empty parts of themselves and all the wrong choices when it comes to trying to fix what's broken. Neither of them have room to talk about each other, honestly, but the fun is watching them convince themselves of why they are better than the other. I LOVED Marcie's rant on Todd today, where she was all "Don't you DARE tell me..." and the look on Todd's face was priceless. Todd brings out this whole other side to Marcie that we just don't see with anyone else. When Marcie says she's not afraid of Todd, I truly believe her, because with every confrontation she is very clear, targeted, confident, unwavering, smug, etc. She's not her fidgety, self-pitying, insecure self around Todd, and I think that's a very odd thing that Todd has brought out the true fighter in Marcie where those that love her and support her really don't bring that out of her. She's this vulnerable, shrinking violet around everyone that loves her, but she's this all-out grizzly bear when she's around Todd. Mesmerizing. I look forward to every Todd/Marcie scene because I know it will be worth watching.

I do think Marcie is incredibly naive to not fear Todd, though. Perhaps one of Todd's plots to scare Marcie can go awry and put her at the brink of death for a little while. But I don't want Marcie killed. The Todd/Marcie/Michael rivalry is one that has evolved so naturally over time that it would be a shame to cut it short when there are so many layers to it with Starr and her baby in the mix, and John and Blair's divided loyalties. It's such a layered, complex story, where EVERYONE has made their mistakes, and no one is blameless for the mess they all find themselves in.

This is a really great post! I mean that most sincerely. I've bolded the parts that sparked me the most. And I loved your take on how they convince themselves of their superiority and why Todd brings out something in Marcie that those who see the best in her do not. Very interesting analysis and I understand everything you're saying and how you see that. You make it sound so incredibly compelling, it makes me kind of sad that these characters no longer evoke that sort of passion in me. I am just so tired of both of them individually, I can't enjoy the dynamic you are seeing, although I really do get what you're saying.

I wish we could just one more Vicki and Dorian throw down. Their fights were one of the main reasons I'd watch OLTL when I was a kid LOL.

RC's writing is so deliberate I think you can expect more than one. The set up is definitely there.

This is a really great post! I mean that most sincerely. I've bolded the parts that sparked me the most. And I loved your take on how they convince themselves of their superiority and why Todd brings out something in Marcie that those who see the best in her do not. Very interesting analysis and I understand everything you're saying and how you see that. You make it sound so incredibly compelling, it makes me kind of sad that these characters no longer evoke that sort of passion in me. I am just so tired of both of them individually, I can't enjoy the dynamic you are seeing, although I really do get what you're saying.

I second that, Rhinohide... between this post, and JinxAvery's post last week about all three Lord siblings being involved in stories where they're trying desperately to be somebody they can never be (Viki in Paris, Todd with Marty, Tina in Mendorra), I'm seeing something in these threads I haven't seen on any soap board in YEARS - careful, consistent, psychological analysis. Not because we haven't wanted to go there... but because we never had a reason to.

I usually find posts like these over the last few weeks that really make my head spin - even if RC and his team haven't thought it through this deeply, the fact that fans are willing to go that distance for these characters now is wonderful, and says a whole lot. I hadn't considered that Marcie/Todd dichotomy, especially in reference to both characters feeling inferior and riddled with insecurities as teen-agers for different reasons, then taking two very differnet paths in life. And the fact that they both feel superior - WOW, I have a whole new appreciation for Todd/Marcie scenes right now.

Man, THESE are the discussions that every "high-end" soap fan should be having about EVERY soap. What I love about One Life is that it works on so many levels right now. If you're just in it for the "sleaze" and "scandal" it's got all of those majoe melodramatic soapy moments. But then if you're looking for a higher u7nderstanding, someone can throw you the Lord siblings' self-loathing, or Marcie/Todd needing to feel superior to someone because of their youths, and it's like you're watching a whole different show.

Brain is spinning. Nicely done, guys. I know I'm impressed by the posts here. :-)

She's gonna slap Dorian so hard her teeth will rattle. lol

I don't even like Viki and haven't for years. I've always preferred Dorian, and guess what? I can't wait for her smackdown. I am tapping my fingers in eager anticipation for whatever that will be. I love how RC has written the conflict between Dorian and Viki. They're no longer sniping at one another over petty jealousy and acting like silly cliquish teens. He's upped the ante between these two characters tremendously and driven the animus to epic proportions. Dorian has committed truly heinous criminal acts and fully deserves to be prosecuted and imprisoned, plus slapped and kicked and called bad names. But the beauty of RC's writing is that I have confidence that he's taken Dorian down this slippery slope for a reason and he has a way to redeem her in his back pocket. The only alternative is that he's writing her into a corner, but he is so deliberate and he has a purpose for EVERYTHING and as Toups pointed out he's writing years in advance. I have no idea what her redemption will be, but I remain convinced it's going to be earth shattering.

I second that, Rhinohide... between this post, and JinxAvery's post last week about all three Lord siblings being involved in stories where they're trying desperately to be somebody they can never be (Viki in Paris, Todd with Marty, Tina in Mendorra), I'm seeing something in these threads I haven't seen on any soap board in YEARS - careful, consistent, psychological analysis. Not because we haven't wanted to go there... but because we never had a reason to.

I usually find posts like these over the last few weeks that really make my head spin - even if RC and his team haven't thought it through this deeply, the fact that fans are willing to go that distance for these characters now is wonderful, and says a whole lot. I hadn't considered that Marcie/Todd dichotomy, especially in reference to both characters feeling inferior and riddled with insecurities as teen-agers for different reasons, then taking two very differnet paths in life. And the fact that they both feel superior - WOW, I have a whole new appreciation for Todd/Marcie scenes right now.

Man, THESE are the discussions that every "high-end" soap fan should be having about EVERY soap. What I love about One Life is that it works on so many levels right now. If you're just in it for the "sleaze" and "scandal" it's got all of those majoe melodramatic soapy moments. But then if you're looking for a higher u7nderstanding, someone can throw you the Lord siblings' self-loathing, or Marcie/Todd needing to feel superior to someone because of their youths, and it's like you're watching a whole different show.

Brain is spinning. Nicely done, guys. I know I'm impressed by the posts here. :-)

I know eh. What great insights and it just takes the already awesome storytelling to a whole new level - storylines with depth which we rarely now.

More great conflict today!

I thought Starr was SPOT ON when talking about Cole's idiocy in betraying his mother's memory by going to the man who hurt her most in her life. But she's telling him like he didn't know all the ways Todd has hurt Marty, and he probably knows or has faced them more than Starr has. I would guess.

I don't really care who is worse, Marcie or Todd, because I LOVE their scenes together. And Trevor St. John played it so differently this time, he wasn't going off, calling Marcie a bitch (I did love him calling her Michael's degenerate wife) and every time Michael tried to usher Todd out, Todd was just like "it's okay, it's okay" and kept talking to Marcie, brushing Michael off. LOL!

Before the baby Tommy/Sam saga happened, I always wanted Marcie and Todd in the same orbit because she seemed like Todd's moral opposite. I thought it would have been good if Marcie (a writer, once upon a time) had gone to work for Todd at The Sun and they would have been begrudging friends as she tried to steer the paper toward more upstanding journalism and Todd towards the good guy side. BUT, I actually like this dynamic now so much better because they are both enormously flawed individuals with so many empty parts of themselves and all the wrong choices when it comes to trying to fix what's broken. Neither of them have room to talk about each other, honestly, but the fun is watching them convince themselves of why they are better than the other. I LOVED Marcie's rant on Todd today, where she was all "Don't you DARE tell me..." and the look on Todd's face was priceless. Todd brings out this whole other side to Marcie that we just don't see with anyone else. When Marcie says she's not afraid of Todd, I truly believe her, because with every confrontation she is very clear, targeted, confident, unwavering, smug, etc. She's not her fidgety, self-pitying, insecure self around Todd, and I think that's a very odd thing that Todd has brought out the true fighter in Marcie where those that love her and support her really don't bring that out of her. She's this vulnerable, shrinking violet around everyone that loves her, but she's this all-out grizzly bear when she's around Todd. Mesmerizing. I look forward to every Todd/Marcie scene because I know it will be worth watching.

I do think Marcie is incredibly naive to not fear Todd, though. Perhaps one of Todd's plots to scare Marcie can go awry and put her at the brink of death for a little while. But I don't want Marcie killed. The Todd/Marcie/Michael rivalry is one that has evolved so naturally over time that it would be a shame to cut it short when there are so many layers to it with Starr and her baby in the mix, and John and Blair's divided loyalties. It's such a layered, complex story, where EVERYONE has made their mistakes, and no one is blameless for the mess they all find themselves in.

That was an awesome post, David Evan Smith!

Edited July 11, 200817 yr by Toups

I don't even like Viki and haven't for years. I've always preferred Dorian, and guess what? I can't wait for her smackdown. I am tapping my fingers in eager anticipation for whatever that will be. I love how RC has written the conflict between Dorian and Viki. They're no longer sniping at one another over petty jealousy and acting like silly cliquish teens. He's upped the ante between these two characters tremendously and driven the animus to epic proportions. Dorian has committed truly heinous criminal acts and fully deserves to be prosecuted and imprisoned, plus slapped and kicked and called bad names. But the beauty of RC's writing is that I have confidence that he's taken Dorian down this slippery slope for a reason and he has a way to redeem her in his back pocket. The only alternative is that he's writing her into a corner, but he is so deliberate and he has a purpose for EVERYTHING and as Toups pointed out he's writing years in advance. I have no idea what her redemption will be, but I remain convinced it's going to be earth shattering.

They're fun cause RC has reinvigorated Viki & are being written as equals again & he (and Robin) have done a very good job at making Dorian extremely nasty but not irredemable which will make her eventual comeuppance from everyone, especially Viki that much more fun.

They're fun cause RC has reinvigorated Viki & are being written as equals again & he (and Robin) have done a very good job at making Dorian extremely nasty but not irredemable which will make her eventual comeuppance from everyone, especially Viki that much more fun.

It's really amazing how he's taken what is old (some call it recycling *cough*Jay*cough*) and made it nail biting drama.

I know eh. What great insights and it just takes the already awesome storytelling to a whole new level - storylines with depth which we rarely now.

That was an awesome post, David Evan Smith!

It's me, the ol' Mike.

But DES puts my posts to shame, so by all means, I'd be honored if he took the credit.

It's me, the ol' Mike.

But DES puts my posts to shame, so by all means, I'd be honored if he took the credit.

Oopps...I forgot to quote DES' post......not that your post wasn't awesome too.

This is a really great post! I mean that most sincerely. I've bolded the parts that sparked me the most. And I loved your take on how they convince themselves of their superiority and why Todd brings out something in Marcie that those who see the best in her do not. Very interesting analysis and I understand everything you're saying and how you see that. You make it sound so incredibly compelling, it makes me kind of sad that these characters no longer evoke that sort of passion in me. I am just so tired of both of them individually, I can't enjoy the dynamic you are seeing, although I really do get what you're saying.

Thank you, and it really does amaze me. I do give a lot of the credit to Kathy Brier, because she doesn't NEED to play it so fearless around Todd, and I normally wouldn't expect her to, but she absolutely does, so it really makes me appreciate the actress more, because that's a choice that REALLY shapes her character. I will never forget the recent court battle when Todd lost Sam because of the car seat incident, and he threw a chair or something and was screaming curses and lunged into Marcie's face. The court was in an uproar, but Marcie was just sitting there, calmly, and smugly, smirking at Todd because he had once again proved what an animal he was and didn't deserve to raise a child. I wish someone could dig up a screen capture of that look on Marcie's face, it was FANTASTIC!

I second that, Rhinohide... between this post, and JinxAvery's post last week about all three Lord siblings being involved in stories where they're trying desperately to be somebody they can never be (Viki in Paris, Todd with Marty, Tina in Mendorra), I'm seeing something in these threads I haven't seen on any soap board in YEARS - careful, consistent, psychological analysis. Not because we haven't wanted to go there... but because we never had a reason to.

I usually find posts like these over the last few weeks that really make my head spin - even if RC and his team haven't thought it through this deeply, the fact that fans are willing to go that distance for these characters now is wonderful, and says a whole lot. I hadn't considered that Marcie/Todd dichotomy, especially in reference to both characters feeling inferior and riddled with insecurities as teen-agers for different reasons, then taking two very differnet paths in life. And the fact that they both feel superior - WOW, I have a whole new appreciation for Todd/Marcie scenes right now.

Man, THESE are the discussions that every "high-end" soap fan should be having about EVERY soap. What I love about One Life is that it works on so many levels right now. If you're just in it for the "sleaze" and "scandal" it's got all of those majoe melodramatic soapy moments. But then if you're looking for a higher u7nderstanding, someone can throw you the Lord siblings' self-loathing, or Marcie/Todd needing to feel superior to someone because of their youths, and it's like you're watching a whole different show.

Brain is spinning. Nicely done, guys. I know I'm impressed by the posts here. :-)

And thanks again! I often wonder if I'm giving the writers too much credit, if we are reading more into it than the writers have actually PUT in there, but their intent I guess doesn't really matter, it's what they're inspiring from us that matters. The fact we even WANT to go into these characters heads is the testament.

I was writing a "Parallel GH" fiction for a long while on a message board and it had a pretty good, consistent response, and my regular readers would constantly be giving me feedback about the characters and motivations and sometimes found a beauty to the story or a theme that I hadn't considered or intended, but that was eye-opening and so I started writing more into that.

That's why it kills me when I can tell someone I watch soaps and they have that laugh of a reaction about how shows are so bad and they REALLY haven't sat and watched a show for any length of time to have the appreciation that most of us have for it. And it's watching it over time and reading into the characters that allow us to appreciate it so well.

Good to be among others who like going to that psychological level with these characters!