She lost me when she decided that Nick and Phyllis had what it takes to be a viable couple. It's still ridiculous to me that these two are paired up when all I see is a dumbed down version of both characters. An affair between these two? Yeah I could've stayed behind that, but an actual marriage. It's laughable on it's best days and extremely sad and disgusting on it's worst.

I'm in the camp of you don't mess with history and she destroyed the history of this show with her horrible couples and rewriting of history.

I don't blame the current ratings on her however. Bell and Griffin can take full responsibility for those. They had a chance when they took over to begin righting the wrongs but they haven't...that's been their choice. And it has NOt worked.

When did you stop liking them? Didn't they feature your video talking about how much you loved them at last year's Emmy's or something? I seem to remember you being a huge Nick and Phyllis fan all through last summer. What happened?

Until I realized they actually planned to keep them together.....the affair, I understood. But once they completely destroyed both characters to try to make them fit as an actual married couple...giving them no depth, no rootablilty...I quickly changed my mind. I had hoped the affair would last a little while, only to lead to a reunion between Nick and Sharon. I'm STILL hoping he comes to his senses at some point. The amnesia would have been a fabulous opportunity to explore that, but LML screwed that story up too and now POOF he's recalled everything. Or so we're told. I still don't believe that Summer is Nick's, but that's a post for a different thread. It didn't help that some of the 'fans' of the pair harrassed me beyond all reality when I decided I was wavering in my support for them. I'm talking email, phone calls at 2 am threatening my KIDS if I didn't stay supportive of Nick and Phyllis....yeah it was rather disturbing. For me, it boiled down to the fact that I wasn't going to let them FORCE me to support any fictional couple. I'm still a fan of Joshua Morrow.....I think he's one of the most underrated actors on the show....I'm just not particularly thrilled with Nick and haven't been since Sept/Oct of last year. The video I made was one of the finalists but was not shown on the telecast...for which I'm extremely grateful now. LOL

Like many of Latham's stories, the idea of an affair between these two was a good one....the execution sucked. She was a good idea person, but when it came to follow through and keeping the stories believable and interesting she simply wasn't up to the task. This pairing was just one of many screw ups she had during her tenure. And added to that her getting rid of actors/actresses we all loved (ie Dru, John Abbott, replacing Colleen and Lily, etc etc) and bringing in newbies that we didn't even have time to enjoy before they were dead..

Edited June 4, 200817 yr by Becki

Until I realized they actually planned to keep them together.....the affair, I understood. But once they completely destroyed both characters to try to make them fit as an actual married couple...giving them no depth, no rootablilty...I quickly changed my mind. I had hoped the affair would last a little while, only to lead to a reunion between Nick and Sharon. I'm STILL hoping he comes to his senses at some point. The amnesia would have been a fabulous opportunity to explore that, but LML screwed that story up too and now POOF he's recalled everything. Or so we're told. I still don't believe that Summer is Nick's, but that's a post for a different thread. It didn't help that some of the 'fans' of the pair harrassed me beyond all reality when I decided I was wavering in my support for them. I'm talking email, phone calls at 2 am threatening my KIDS if I didn't stay supportive of Nick and Phyllis....yeah it was rather disturbing. For me, it boiled down to the fact that I wasn't going to let them FORCE me to support any fictional couple. I'm still a fan of Joshua Morrow.....I think he's one of the most underrated actors on the show....I'm just not particularly thrilled with Nick and haven't been since Sept/Oct of last year. The video I made was one of the finalists but was not shown on the telecast...for which I'm extremely grateful now. LOL

Like many of Latham's stories, the idea of an affair between these two was a good one....the execution sucked. She was a good idea person, but when it came to follow through and keeping the stories believable and interesting she simply wasn't up to the task. This pairing was just one of many screw ups she had during her tenure. And added to that her getting rid of actors/actresses we all loved (ie Dru, John Abbott, replacing Colleen and Lily, etc etc) and bringing in newbies that we didn't even have time to enjoy before they were dead..

OMG, Becki, your kids were threatened over Phick?! That is insane!

Your post reminded me that Phick is really Y&R's first "supercouple" -- in the ABC Daytime sense of the word.

Obviously, Nikki & Victor have a vocal fanbase, and have done for years. But I sometimes wonder whether that was sort of an "accident" that TPTB tolerated. Indeed, they paired Nikki off with Jack and others for a while (and Victor with Ashley and his many ex-wives). Victor & Ashley really gave Nikki-Victor a run for its money -- I never quite knew who Billy Goat Newman would choose.

I think Jack Smith was frustrated by the Nikki-Victor thing, hence Nikki's Bobby Marsino flirtation. In fact, I remember posting on SON around that time, decrying Y&R's lack of romance. I think it's because it coincided with a GH pairing I really enjoyed (CarLo) which had lots of swoony romance, stolen kisses and sexual tension. Jack Smith seemed almost afraid to ask the Y&R actors to get too physical with each other. Instead, elegantly-written riposte, refined camp and boardroom battles were his speciality.

Until Phick. Their love scenes really stood out because the cameras lingered over their sexual intimacy. When Daniel walked in on them doing it on Phyllis's sofa, they way that whole scene was shot with strategically placed naked limbs, I almost blushed! In fact, this was the first time I recall a special couple nickname for the pairing becoming common usage when talking about Y&R. Even Nikki & Victor didn't get a NikTor. No wonder LML embraced Phick (with Sharon as a potential complication) -- it must have been like writing for ABC!

And I guess that's when I realized that Jack Smith most likely held back from building up "supercouples" because he didn't want to be beholden to fanbases (and have hysterical psycho-fans threatening him). He didn't want to get into a pattern of writing for a couple + interloper + couple reunites + couple breaks up over and over and over because it gets redundant and the reasons for breaking up that couple become outlandish.

What I don't understand, though, is why Y&R are STILL not playing ALL the beats to the Phyllis/Nick/Sharon/Jack quad. Y&R had some great triangles in the past. This one should be a doozy. Is Summer really Nick's? If not, who switched the paternity test? And why? What about when Jack delivered Summer in the Newman elevator? Wasn't there a bond reformed between Jack and Phyllis? And why did Y&R drop the Sharon & Nick intensity when Nick returned from his plane crash with partial amnesia? I never thought Shick had massive chemistry until that day when Nick grabbed Sharon for a long kiss with the words "What? I can't kiss my wife?"

This is not about pushing Shick or Phick or Jack & Phyllis because I don't have a preference either way and never really did. But if Alden or Smith or Bill Bell were still around, they would have run with this. Nick's rediscovered attraction to Sharon would have lasted some months at least. Jack's connection to Phyllis and her baby would have played out longer than 2 days, too. The potential for Phyllis and Nick to fall in love all over again could also have been handled better (and slower).

ITA with you about LML's recast fest. Especially getting rid of VR, DS and AL. But, as you say, it was the pacing and execution of her stories which really stank. So much so that I tuned out for months. At least with the current regime, I am back to distractedly watching.

Edited June 4, 200817 yr by Cat

That she picked up a pen?

I'm talking email, phone calls at 2 am threatening my KIDS if I didn't stay supportive of Nick and Phyllis....yeah it was rather disturbing.

Sounds about right. lol

Edited June 4, 200817 yr by DeeeDee

Sounds about right. lol

Really? I guess I'm naive. I know it happens with other shows but I thought Y&R fans were somehow less inclined to be so.... shall we say... intense