Who's been damaged? Nobody on this show has done anything that can't be taken back or has ultimately changed the character forever (such as McTavish's versions of Ryan "I AM THAT MONSTER" Lavery, Tad torturing Madden, Babe stealing Bianca's baby and kidnapping Little A, Bianca's rape, Eric Kane willingly giving 14 year old Erica to a pedophile movie star, Erica's unabortion...). The only character who suffered any "damage" during B&E's tenure is Greenlee due to CRASH... but wait a minute, she's been, what was it? "Whitewashed" was it? Yeah, she's been "whitewashed" so by definition, she's no longer showing signs of damage, either.

I'm with Jack... they didn't cause any damage. No big decisions were made that altered the course of Pine Valley forever. And I'm ecstatic that there weren't any vampires.

I agree although I have to say I think a good soap writer should be unfraid to cause some "damage". hopefully they do it making better choices than most of McT's but really if no story you tell shakes up the canvas are you doing your job as an interestign new soap writer? This is not to say shaking it up for that sake with no thought of the consequences is fine

I caught a couple of eppys of AMC when they started out, but wasn't that impressed. IA with others that their first year at GL with Paul Rauch was fantastic. Campy, but still a good show. Obviously, their crowning achievement was the evolution of Annie Dutton to queen bitch of Springfield. Their attempt to bring her back as "Teri DeMarco" was ill-conceived and I always thought Rauch had more to do with that than B&E (don't know why - just my personal opinion).

That's prob fair to blame Rauch partly--he was known for prefering his soaps on the campy side (at least post his groundbreaking 70s work on AW with Lemay)--think his view of One Life to Live for the 80s...

Terrific posts, R Sinclair! I'll kind of echo what you said...

Who cares that Spike's story was re-written or that we had to endure the sextext when it's such a LITTLE and INSIGIFACANT blip in the context of AMC history? Big f'ing deal -- they rewrote that story. I know I don't care anymore. I known I've moved on.

(OK, I'm not saying you SHOULDN't care...you have the right to be upset. But comparing that rewrite to anything McTavish penned?)

Looking back at the last year, there is not ONE character or ONE segment of AMC history that has been fundamentally damaged by B&E. Did I think their stint was, overall, good? No (although I think the last month or so has been great, and I'll give them credit for that. They have shown glimpses of brilliance in their careers). But I do not think they jeopardized the integrity of the show in the way that Megan McTavish did. If anything, they've done GOOD for the foundation of the show, by building up a strong base of new characters and (re) introducing a core family back into the show (The Hubbards, of course).

Whatever the hell "whitewashing" or "damage" B&E did to the show -- ask yourself, does it compare to the actions of Megan McTavish??

a). Pissing on a LEGENDARY, ground-breaking storyline (an abortion), giving Erica another child who is completely unnecessary (and as of now, unseen)

. Botching the return of a popular and well-loved character, and killing her senselessly with PEANUT BUTTER BANANA PANCAKES (Yeah, I know many hated her, especially because Dix dared the BREATHE within the Kingdom of Zendall, but what about the many fans who loved Dixie and invested in her story with Tad for EIGHTEEN years only to get slapped and spit in the face!?)

c). Ripping the inherent integrity of one of the show's tent pole characters -- Tad Martin -- by making him a torturer and murderer, basically because Megs wanted someone "surprising" to be the culprit.

d). Spitting in the face of Julia Barr, and offering one of the show's longest running characters no send off at all.

I'll stop there. Those are, to me, the four biggest disasters McTavish's whipped up, but I could go on, believe me.

B&E really came to this show at the most unenviable time. I can't completely hate on them because they inherited an awful state of affairs, and an inherently, fundamentally broken show. The fact that they rebuilt some of the show's core and foundation, and brought a piece of integrity back to the show, all which had been slaughtered by their predecessor, will be thanked by me. As I mentioned before: At least, in my opinion, B&E are leaving the show in a better position than it was when they took over.

But I completely understand how McTavish's damage was completely outranked when B&E dared to rewrite a storyline involving the Christ Child of Zach and Kendall, which at this point in AMC history, has absolutely zilch significance.

Edited May 30, 200817 yr by Kubla Khan

[Lotsa great stuff]

LeClerc you win my fave post in this thread. I agree 100% with everything you say (I don't understand why on this forum it's so hard for fans to admit when someone they may not like does something right, etc). Their main prob with AMC has prob been the problem everyone has now, not doing well to do their own stuff and still appease Frons. Also, maybe they aren't good at horu shows--on the City they certainly always had multiple storylines and characters going at once but it was still a 30 min (ie about 17 mins of programming a day) soap.

LOL this kind of stuff kills me, people bitch and moan at how bad McTavish was, but at least she never wrote something that for 6 months told us that this character did this, then rewrite as if it never happened.

I know it's conjecture on BOTH our parts--but that Greenlee twist felt like clearly SUCH a rewrite imposed on them by someone else, I dunno why you'd assume otherwise...

Okay Bob Guiney said back in December in an article that they were testing Greenlee with ALL the guys, this is why I feel the sextet of suck is happening. So it's all cause of REAL Greenlee's return......

Of course this is only my opinion, but I know I'll get jumped on

But isn;'t that just the way of Frons era ABC Daytime? To try everyone with everyone and then test demos or something? It's certainly not uniqute to B/E AMC...

That's the problem. Even when they start out great, B&E seem to lose interest and enthusiasm after about a year. It's as if they actually do come in on one big, fantastic pitch, but have no idea what to do for the follow-up.

Again isn't this epedemic of nearly all headwriters right now? Certainly that was the major prob with McT...

Didn't damage the integrity of the show? Can't agree. So tell me then why should I get invested in ANY storylines on this show? B&E can just rewrite anything to their heart's content.

So that right there is basically the writers saying FU, don't get invested, cause we'll undo it with the flick of a pen.

To me that is DAMAGING.

No one's denying McTavish was bad, but she had ALOT of good and ALOT of bad. B&E just had nothing but bad IMO.

Edited May 30, 200817 yr by Zendall Fan

d). Spitting in the face of Julia Barr, and offering one of the show's longest running characters no send off at all.

I don't think this has anything to do with McTavish...odds are, Frons told her not to write an exit for Brooke. McTavish had a couple of stories planned for Brooke throughout her third stint that got scrapped by Frons

Sounds like Frons to me too Jason, I also think the Dixie stuff was more Carruthers than anything

Edited May 30, 200817 yr by Zendall Fan

I don't think this has anything to do with McTavish...odds are, Frons told her not to write an exit for Brooke. McTavish had a couple of stories planned for Brooke throughout her third stint that got scrapped by Frons

I don't think she wrote much for Brooke during her second stint either. In fact, I think McTavish hated the Brooke character.

All I can say is, thank God Felicia Minei Behr and Agnes were heavily involved in her first stint....

It just does not make sense to me that McTavish would not pen an exit episode for Brooke when she was working throughout her third stint to get her a story...she did care about Brooke and wrote for her heavily in her first and second stints

I don't think she wrote much for Brooke during her second stint either. In fact, I think McTavish hated the Brooke character.

All I can say is, thank God Felicia Minei Behr and Agnes were heavily involved in her first stint....

Her second stint saw Brooke killing Jim Thomasen and her trial and a potential romance with Dimitri and Jack.

I am glad Felicia Minei Behr was EP during her first go around because McTavish tanks when she has a bad EP

LMFAO at the sextet being ALL big baf rebecca Budig's fault. God, that woman is reponsable for everything bad isnt she?

Nevermind the fact that its been going on since Green came back, played by a diff actress. And before then it was all Ryan/Annie/Zach/Kendell all the time. No, none of that matters.

And lets not fault the writers here either, i eman they are responsable for everything bad and nothing good, well everything bad that isnt persojnally rebecca budig's fault.

then there is brian frons. but he cant be responsable for any of this right?

LMFAO at the sextet being ALL big baf rebecca Budig's fault. God, that woman is reponsable for everything bad isnt she?

Nevermind the fact that its been going on since Green came back, played by a diff actress. And before then it was all Ryan/Annie/Zach/Kendell all the time. No, none of that matters.

And lets not fault the writers here either, i eman they are responsable for everything bad and nothing good, well everything bad that isnt persojnally rebecca budig's fault.

then there is brian frons. but he cant be responsable for any of this right?

I definitely don't fault Rebecca for ANY of it.

She's an actress, paid to do her job. If anything, Sabine was a scapgoat, and Rebecca was the Band-Aid. But she just says the words. She doesn't write them... or dictate what's to be written by the writers.

I definitely don't fault Rebecca for ANY of it.

She's an actress, paid to do her job. If anything, Sabine was a scapgoat, and Rebecca was the Band-Aid. But she just says the words. She doesn't write them... or dictate what's to be written by the writers.

I understand, and you understand that, and a lot of others do.

but some do not.

I definitely don't fault Rebecca for ANY of it.

Neither do I. I am glad she somewhat dismissed the "Real Greenlee" ads and said she is the "original" one

Didn't damage the integrity of the show? Can't agree. So tell me then why should I get invested in ANY storylines on this show? B&E can just rewrite anything to their heart's content.

So that right there is basically the writers saying FU, don't get invested, cause we'll undo it with the flick of a pen.

To me that is DAMAGING.

No one's denying McTavish was bad, but she had ALOT of good and ALOT of bad. B&E just had nothing but bad IMO.

Well says you Since everything good that aired during their time (like Jesse/Angie) you refuse to give them ANY credit for...

And yeah I don't think McTavish had anything to do with Julia Bar not being on contract. Frons really shoulda treated her like the star of the show after Susan Lucci but whatever--McTavish has ALWAYS written for her character in her other stints and kept on bragging to the press about story ideas for her--whether they would be any good

(wasn't the huge Jim Thomason story during Mctavish's second stint? Either way it was a MAJOR story even if it was a mess) Is a totally different issue but I blame Frons and maybe even JHC who doens't seem to have much respect for the actors. If someone would court Julia back to the show I admit that's one of the few things that would really really give me new hope for this show. Man I miss her

When was the Brooke and that Priest who ran over her daughter story? Was that under Passanante?

"I am glad Felicia Minei Behr was EP during her first go around because McTavish tanks when she has a bad EP "

Yeah the prob with mcTavish is she's always been way too happy to go along with what she's told to do. You saw it at OLTL when she was basically carrying out JFP's stories--she really does seem to need guidance and unfortunately someseems just as ok accepting bad guidance (from Frons or whoever else) than the good stuff from FMBehr, etc...

Behr though was the last EP we had who really did waht I think an EP should do at AMC. Yeah Francesca James was ok and she's still at the show and knows her history but she lacked a vision I sensed--but way way better than anyone since

Edited May 30, 200817 yr by EricMontreal22

And yeah I don't think McTavish had anything to do with Julia Bar not being on contract. Frons really shoulda treated her like the star of the show after Susan Lucci but whatever--McTavish has ALWAYS written for her character in her other stints and kept on bragging to the press about story ideas for her--whether they would be any good

(wasn't the huge Jim Thomason story during Mctavish's second stint? Either way it was a MAJOR story even if it was a mess) Is a totally different issue but I blame Frons and maybe even JHC who doens't seem to have much respect for the actors. If someone would court Julia back to the show I admit that's one of the few things that would really really give me new hope for this show. Man I miss her

When was the Brooke and that Priest who ran over her daughter story? Was that under Passanante?

"I am glad Felicia Minei Behr was EP during her first go around because McTavish tanks when she has a bad EP "

Yeah the prob with mcTavish is she's always been way too happy to go along with what she's told to do. You saw it at OLTL when she was basically carrying out JFP's stories--she really does seem to need guidance and unfortunately someseems just as ok accepting bad guidance (from Frons or whoever else) than the good stuff from FMBehr, etc...

Behr though was the last EP we had who really did waht I think an EP should do at AMC. Yeah Francesca James was ok and she's still at the show and knows her history but she lacked a vision I sensed--but way way better than anyone since

Usually taking someone off contract comes from the very top, which means the ageist Frons. He hates people over the age of 50 and who rake in big bucks by being veterans of the shows.

The Jim Thomasen story started out with Lorraine Broderick and Megan finished it with Brooke's trial for murdering him, which she was aquitted.

Brooke and the priest was under, I believe, a couple of writers: Jean Passanante/maybe Agnes Nixon (I think Agnes retired right before this story kicked off and she only wrote Bianca coming out afterwards)/Elizabeth Page

McTavish works well with a strong EP with a great vision..that is why she was fine with Felicia Minei Behr and Francesca James for part of the third stint....Julie Hanan Carruthers was, IMO, once a good EP but is not anymore. You could tell that Megan's stories at OLTL and GH were Phelps and that she was not behind the horrific tenures (or maybe a little bit behind it).

Behr and James were AMC's best EPs since I have watched...Carruthers and Dedario Burke just did not rise to the occasion for me

LMFAO at the sextet being ALL big baf rebecca Budig's fault. God, that woman is reponsable for everything bad isnt she?

Nevermind the fact that its been going on since Green came back, played by a diff actress. And before then it was all Ryan/Annie/Zach/Kendell all the time. No, none of that matters.

And lets not fault the writers here either, i eman they are responsable for everything bad and nothing good, well everything bad that isnt persojnally rebecca budig's fault.

then there is brian frons. but he cant be responsable for any of this right?

LMFAO right back at ya

Actually the sextet stuff wasn't happening till close to the end of Sabine's run on the show. It was more Zach/Kendall/Ryan/Annie till about December.

So yeah it coincides with her return. Oh where did I once say I blamed her? I said it had alot to do with her return, and I have NO doubt it does.

It was said as much by her own husband. "Testing her with ALL the guys" so tell me again how it doesn't have anything to do with her?

I'm sure it is Frons' doing cause she is buddy buddy with him