Barack Obama Elected President!

[George008]

I was assuming you were talking about me since we have been going back and forth now for about three pages of this thread. Sorry if you weren't.

I don't understand why you are so afraid of labels. It is common place for a person to be grouped with a political party or political ideology if their beliefs are similar. Everything that I have read from your posts leads me to understand that you are a Democrat, Leftist, Liberal. You said that you think taxes should be raised on the rich, oil companies should share their profits, and we should take care of the less fortunate. Sorry if you disagree with the label, but your beliefs are very similar to those of the Democratic party.

[Roman]

And that is why I strongly disagree with labels.

It makes it very easy for people not to get to know someone first. Therefore they can put whatever label they want on someone to keep from doing the hard work of truly finding out what someone's political beliefs are.

For all anyone knows.......I could be a Conservative whose voting Democratic this year. There are such things as conservative Democratics, Independents and Republicans. No one party has them exclusively.

[David_Vickers]

Great posts Jess & Roman!!!

[Wales2004]

Communism in its pure form is supposed to be for the good of the community. Maybe there was a point in time in life where people actually worked together such as is told of hunters and gatherers and pooled their resources for survival. Before greed became the driving force.

I mean communism based on this definition: a theory or system of social organization based on the holding of all property in common, actual ownership being ascribed to the community as a whole or to the state and not the totalitarianism that has been labeled communist. The word communism is rooted in community so it should really have stood out that totalitarianism was being passed off as communism.

I don't think you should try to make out as if any one posting on this board is further left because I think communism in its pure form sounds good in theory. It could probably only work now in isolated areas where people are hiding away in nature and living more primitively in bliss.

Besides people on whole tend to be to the left on certain issues and to the right on other issues which makes all this labeling business a bit tedious as far as I'm concerned.

[George008]

No, actually the view points you have expressed here would not be considered conservative at all. I see your point and IA with being able to transition between political parties. You can be a conservative Democrat or Liberal Republican, but that doesnt change the fact that you are either Liberal or Conservative.

[George008]

Communism being good for the entire community is based entirely on opinion. A very successful doctor in a capitalistic society would be much better off than one in a communist. Communism severely diminishes an individuals ambition and drive. The quality of services and products is lessened when there is no motivation for excellence that competition creates.

I hate the word greed when related to capitalism (I think that's your point-by saying greed is now the driving force). There is a difference between working hard to become successful and someone that is money hungry. I have drive for monetary success to support my family. Does that make me greedy?

[Roman]

No.

The way I see it.......I am an American citizen, and a citizen of the world.

Barack Obama said that......and so did the late Ronald Reagan.

But I don't see the same people who bash Obama for saying that line bashing Reagan for doing the very same thing.

And, the views I expressed are my views and mine alone.

With all due respect......how you label them is your business. It only matters what I think about them.

[George008]

ok.

[Wales2004]

I disagree with you on the labeling since you don't have to be a Democrat or Republican to have both liberal and conservative views. Some people are Independent and can go liberal on some issues and conservative on others. I don't adhere to political labels since I don't drink Republican or Democrat juice.

And Jess already caught that you were tagged with mentioning communism when it was the dreaded socialism that you were warning about regarding Obama's health care plan.

I'm the one guilty of bringing up communism but you did mistakenly judge others based on what I had to say about it. The thing is that communism is such a dirty word because of some corrupt leaders who corrupted the word by applying it to their totalitarian form of government.

The thing that disturbs me is that people have become so reactionary to certain words based on someone else's polluted definition of them. I suppose if someone spread the word that Happiness was an awful thing then people would be up in arms any time the word was mentioned.

I think if it's okay for us to spend trillions of dollars pretending to be at war in a country where we elected not to let them handle their own business then it' seems odd to say let all Americans take care of their own health care when we know that not everyone can afford it. Sure there is medi cal and medicare but what about the things they don't cover and what about the people that aren't old enough for the one and aren't in a low enough income bracket for the other but can't afford health care. If we did more to prevent medical crises then we would save more money.

I can't at all see the logic in having kids in this country starve, go without health care, and receive inferior education while we're spending money supporting the families of foreign soldiers and going into major debt over it. I'm not saying not to be charitable to the world but charity begins at home.

[George008]

I think you are missing my point with Liberalism and Conservatism. I was trying to say that both can be associated with a certain political party, but not always. The beliefs of Liberalism and Conservatism are descriptions of one's stance on any particular issue and not a political party. But of course as you know, they are associated for the most part with a specific party in the US.

Sure you can have varying views on seperate issues, but ultimately you will have either a liberal view or a conservative view on that issue. There is no denying that. I was saying that Roman's expressed views fall in line with what is generally considered liberal. Remember these terms were created for a reason. They have been used for a long time to describe -or one might say "label" one's beliefs on issues. I did not invent these words. They are very commonly used.

I did say "you guys are more liberal than I thought". I'm sorry if anyone took offense to that. Is liberal a bad word now? I thought liberals were proud to be liberal. I was mainly trying to reflect on your comments. I should not have grouped everyone together in agreeing with what you said. I was just shocked by the abrupt and drastic slide to the left I was witnessing with your comments. Think of it this way..what if I had started defining Fascism out of the blue? I think that would have raised eyebrows as well.

Yeah! I was talking socialism!...Socialism and communism are similar but not exactly the same thing. Socialism has communist ideals, but not of the same severity. Socialism is geared more towards government control of property and distributed evenly amongst the people, while communism is geared towards the community and run by the masses. Socialism is in the middle of the transition between capitalism and communism based on the Marxist theories.

Communism is a bad word in this country because it is the complete oppisite of what this counrty was founded on. The founding fathers wanted to establish a Republic because they realized the dangers of mob rule. Back then even democracy was a bad word.

I might not pay enough attention, but where are kids starving in this country? Or without healthcare?I have not heard any big news stories about an epidemic of poverty in this country. It seems the left likes to say things like this without much substance or evidence to back it up. I know that my state provides impoverished people with food stamps, wic, medicade, peachcare -which is a healthcare program- (I live in the RED state of GA) and tanf. I think the American people are pretty much well taken care of. Certainly more so than in any other place in the world!

[Wales2004]

It is possible to know where a person stands on certain issues when he/she expresses an opinion on those issues. But I don't think you can determine in which direction a person may lean overall based on certain issues. I may have a bleeding heart when it comes to feeding the world and be adamantly against bureaucracy and so does that make me fit into a neat little box? Who knows? Anyway, I gave you the wrong impression if you think I don't want you to label me a proud liberal or whatever. You can label me a proud liberal or whatever else you want to since it doesn't make it true. I very much believe what a person thinks of me is his or her business and what I think of a person is my business.

I'm not sure why saying that communism in its pure form doesn't sound like such a bad thing is so shocking and far to the left but I guess that corruption spoiled a good theory. Marx didn't advocate practicing it in such a corrupt manner. Anyway what I think sounds ideal and reality are two different things. I think living in a chocolate factory with Hershey toffee almond nuggets would be swell but that doesn't mean I'm advocating it.

Does there hunger need to be epidemic for it to be possible that there are children in this country that starve or suffer from malnutrition? I did mention that there are children that lack health care and children that receive inferior education. But if hunger is not a problem due to food stamps then there's violence and poor living conditions such as slums which you can substitute for what I previously said about hunger. it doesn't change the fact that the country has been driven into debt while the leaders can't find Osama Bin Laden.

[George008]

You are exactly right! When you express your opinions on a certain issue(s) -like in this thread- it becomes apparent what their views are on those issues. That's exactly my point. When all of the expressions that I have seen fall under one ideal, it would be safe to assume that person is what they are expressing. No? Communism is too suceptable to corruption, more so than any other political theory, minus monarchy.

[Southofnowhere]

Canada also has it but Obama is talking about giving heathcare to the people who don't have it. The people who can pay for will still have to pay for it! It's not the same as Canada or Britain!

[SnCCorinthos4ever]

We have a pretty good health care system here in Australia and when I have mentioned it to a few of my American pals they have said WTH.

Every Australian from when they are born are covered under medicare which I was led to understand is only given to the eldery in the USA.

Some doctor's bulk bill which means that the patient is not charge. Medicare also takes care of a % of all doctor's bills. But this is just the GP's and hostpitals.

All workers (expect the one that are on low incomes) when they do their taxes pay a 1.5% of their taxable income to Medicare each year. The % is higher if the person earns a greater salary per year.

As far as I know no workplace has a health benefit system that is part of the workplace. If we want health cover other than medicare we choice who we want to have that health cover with and the level that we want.

Sorry if I stepped on any toes, but I do believe that everyone is entitled to health care especially those that really can't afford it.

[Southofnowhere]

I couldn't agree more!