I don't think it's right to pressure Hillary to back out. If she's anything like me, pressuring me to do something I don't want to do will just make me more defiant. Hillary is a fighter. She's driven. She's someone who likes a challenge. The fact that this race has never been complete cut and dry shows how passionate people are about their candidates.

In a perfect world, Hillary would have backed out a while ago, once it was determined that her chances of winning her slimmer and slimmer. But you have to admire her tenacity. I can't say that I would be "big" enough to drop my aspirations of becoming President. To be so close to this goal, and to have to deal with people telling me to give up, to support the other person would be VERY hard for ANY person to do. In that regards, I sympathize with Hillary and understand why she has stayed in up to this point.

However............this race has showed exactly what many of Hillary's critics have said about her for years. That she's polarizing, that she's divisive. The Democratic party cannot afford to lose the White House this November. It is imperative that we retake what the Republicans have ruined the past 8 years.

My problem with her stems from her changing her method of winning. At first it was going to be the delegates. Then when it became evident that it may not happen there, it was the superdelegates. Then when that argument began to become slimmer, it turned to the popular vote (which leaves out certain states that Obama won). In the mean time, she's threatening to take this all the way to the convention. Because I'm not in this situation, I can't say I wouldn't do the same thing, but given that I'm from the outside looking at this, you CANNOT divide this party any more than it already it.

If the shoe were on the other foot, and Obama was trailing, people would be on his ass to drop out of the race. The pundits would jump down his throat for putting his own political aspirations ahead of the Democratic Party. I have a lot of respect for Mitt Romney. He could have continued on in the race, and I'm sure he probably would have won a few more contests and even bit a chunk of McCain's momentum....but he withdrew for the benefit of the party. I'm also sure he was jockeying for a VP or cabinet position, but he put the goal of the party ahead of his own.

Thank you, Ryan.

I think many fail to see this......but always expect for Hillary to get the utmost respect. And......back in 1991, when Bill was running, both he and Hillary were demanding that Jerry Brown look at the DELEGATE NUMBER and drop out. They leaned on JB then and it was fine.......

But now she's being treated unfairly. If I and others are to look at her and not her gender........then what is fair?

That's what I ask.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080603/pl_nm/...on_mcauliffe_dc

Clinton campaign says she's not conceding

31 minutes ago

Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton is "absolutely not" planning to concede the campaign to Barack Obama on Tuesday night, Clinton campaign chairman Terry McAuliffe told CNN on Tuesday.

"No one has the number to be the nominee of the Democratic party right now," he said.

McAuliffe, asked about an AP report that Clinton will acknowledge Tuesday night after the South Dakota and Montana primaries that Obama has the delegates to clinch the nomination for the November presidential election, replied: "They are 100 percent incorrect."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080603/pl_af...ll_080603152437

Obama creeps past McCain in opinion poll

46 minutes ago

Democratic White House candidate Barack Obama has pulled ahead of Republican John McCain in the latest Gallup voter opinion survey, published Tuesday in USA Today.

Obama lead McCain 47 to 44 percent, in a reversal from Gallup's findings a month ago, which saw McCain ahead of Obama 47 to 45 percent.

Both leads are within the poll's four point margin of error.

A matchup pitting Hillary Clinton against McCain saw the former first lady with a sharper advantage of 49 percent versus 43 for the presumptive Republican nominee, Gallup found.

Obama was favored to win Tuesday's final two primaries in Montana and South Dakota and also to clinch the Democratic nomination, possibly in the same day.

The poll found that 58 percent of Americans have a positive image of Obama, 56 view McCain favorably and 54 have a good opinion of Clinton.

But President George W. Bush's approval rating was just 28 percent.

And the poll depicted Americans as pessimistic about their buying power, with 55 percent saying they are worse off now than they were a year ago and just 26 percent saying the reverse.

Americans have not been so gloomy since 1976, Gallup said, adding that such sentiment generally leads voters to oust whatever political party is currently in the White House.

Oh bullshit. If she really was political poison, he would not even entertain the thought of adding her on as VP. She has done very little to him compared to what I have seen in other political campaigns. She attracts all the necessary groups to win and can get them to turn out in mass numbers to vote for a Hillarack ticket. Do you see Richardson attracting Asians, as many women, young people, Independents, working class, and seniors the way she does? Nope

Are you for real...maybe in PUBLIC he's pretending like he's considering her but I have no doubt that behind closed doors 90% of his staff is absolutely OPPOSED to Hilary being the VP.

Shes a toxic person and her husband is just as worse. They would divide the party so badly if he let them join the ticket. Not to mention every Republican hiding in the woodworks would magically appear the instant her name was announced.

I mean who sticks around in an election just hoping for some dirt to come up about the opponent or even worse for him to be assassinated?

Who switches the definition of "winning" every few weeks things go bad for her.

Who plays the "fill in the blank" card every week when it becomes apparent you're losing?

She's done nothing but lash out at Obama, the media, and the DNC throughout this process. Its shameful and despicable and if she thinks she'll be rewarded with a position in his cabinet she and her supporters can think again.

Go vote McCain if you want to. Just don't cry and moan as the economy gets worse and we enter another useless war in the Middle East. And please don't cry as health care continues to become more expensive.

If the only reason you can put out there for not voting for Barack is because he's black, in experienced, or you don't know much about him then I think thats pretty much a joke of a reason.

All the experience in the world didn't help Clinton when she voted to go to war. Nor has it help McCain or Cheney. Its time for someone to get us back on the right track and I firmly believe that its Obama. And if he's going to do it he needs to start with a clean slate.

In the end Barack Obama doesn't need HRC. She doesn't bring anything to the table except her and her husbands antics and a whole lot of negativity.

Edited June 3, 200817 yr by GHJunkie4Life

I don't even know where to begin with all of this.

My position on HC staying in the race has been that by staying in the party will be divisive and I think that's turned out to be true because the longer this has gone on the uglier it has gotten. There wouldn't be this big sexism vs. racism war had it not lasted this long. I am not discounting her right to stay in because she does what works for her but the risk in doing so is splitting the party. I can't say that I wouldn't have stayed in myself had I been in her shoes, but I can say that I would not have used the tactics she used in creating this rift.

I think it's important to recognize that HC can contribute to Obama winning the general election without being on the ticket. He most definitely needs her support perhaps to a greater degree than he would have had she stepped aside earlier. He does not need her to be on the ticket. There are pros and cons to that but the most significant one to me is that if Democrats are having trouble fully embracing a female and a black male (and I know he is of mixed heritage but society still identifies him as black and he accepts that), then it's unwise to have them on the same ticket. This needs to be done one at a time since we're not living in the ideal where this sort of thing doesn't matter. I don't believe that the whole nation is so fed up with Republican leadership that they'll go for a two fer.

Bill Clinton is more of a liability at present than a help.

Because the landscape changes in a general election, I don't think it's a given that the people that supported HC in the primaries will automatically support her in a general election so I don't go for the idea that she is guaranteed to bring in x,y, and z voters that she may have carried in the primaries. I don't know the number of states that had open primaries. I know SD and Montana have them but I am sure there were other states which introduces the possibility that some of the voters that may have crossed over to vote for her will go back to voting Republican in November.

:lol: :lol: Good thing I don't listen to what you have to say.

Just saying, you know.

And, let me say this about this post.

There are people who hardly ever post in this thread, who come in here, make smart posts, then leave and either go back to lurking or leave the board. Now, my comment was reported as being out of line. For that, I'm truly sorry.

But some need to start realizing that Mods and Admins are people too, and staff members have just as much right to post things and not take BS from members as everyone else does.

I hope in the future people will realize that and remember that respect goes both ways.......it just doesn't go from staff to members.

Both ways.

I don't even know where to begin with all of this.

My position on HC staying in the race has been that by staying in the party will be divisive and I think that's turned out to be true because the longer this has gone on the uglier it has gotten. There wouldn't be this big sexism vs. racism war had it not lasted this long. I am not discounting her right to stay in because she does what works for her but the risk in doing so is splitting the party. I can't say that I wouldn't have stayed in myself had I been in her shoes, but I can say that I would not have used the tactics she used in creating this rift.

I think it's important to recognize that HC can contribute to Obama winning the general election without being on the ticket. He most definitely needs her support perhaps to a greater degree than he would have had she stepped aside earlier. He does not need her to be on the ticket. There are pros and cons to that but the most significant one to me is that if Democrats are having trouble fully embracing a female and a black male (and I know he is of mixed heritage but society still identifies him as black and he accepts that), then it's unwise to have them on the same ticket. This needs to be done one at a time since we're not living in the ideal where this sort of thing doesn't matter. I don't believe that the whole nation is so fed up with Republican leadership that they'll go for a two fer.

Bill Clinton is more of a liability at present than a help.

Because the landscape changes in a general election, I don't think it's a given that the people that supported HC in the primaries will automatically support her in a general election so I don't go for the idea that she is guaranteed to bring in x,y, and z voters that she may have carried in the primaries. I don't know the number of states that had open primaries. I know SD and Montana have them but I am sure there were other states which introduces the possibility that some of the voters that may have crossed over to vote for her will go back to voting Republican in November.

That was a really good post and I have to admit that you're very right about her being able to contribute...its just that I'm not even sure if I want Obama to be placed in that position.

I mean I'm sorry but I just don't get the feeling that I can trust Hilary Clinton or Bill Clinton. Not like I used to when I was younger and my parents would say, "God Bless Bill Clinton. The first president who truly cared for black people in America." And I'm not joking either. My dad and mom worshiped the ground the Clintons walked on back in the 90's. Even with the Monica scandal broke out they stuck by his side and supported him saying it wasn't really that big a deal (although looking back I can see why it was such a controversy).

And then this election cycle comes around they're acting like pigs who feel that they're entitled to the White House for a 2nd time just because of their name and past history.

Well I'm sorry but I don't sure that type of conduct and their statements/behavior have turned me and my folks off from them.

There are plenty of excellent Democratic leaders and members who have plenty of political clout/knowledge and great campaigning skills which can be put to great use for Obama in the Summer and Fall without the baggage that HRC brings.

If he wants her to help thats fine. But I wouldn't put a lot of eggs in her basket. She does not seem like a team player and I highly doubt she'll do anything with true enthusiasm for Obama.

As an outsider looking in it just seems painfully obvious to me that she's in this for one thing and one thing only...POWER.

That was a really good post and I have to admit that you're very right about her being able to contribute...its just that I'm not even sure if I want Obama to be placed in that position.

I mean I'm sorry but I just don't get the feeling that I can trust Hilary Clinton or Bill Clinton. Not like I used to when I was younger and my parents would say, "God Bless Bill Clinton. The first president who truly cared for black people in America." And I'm not joking either. My dad and mom worshiped the ground the Clintons walked on back in the 90's. Even with the Monica scandal broke out they stuck by his side and supported him saying it wasn't really that big a deal (although looking back I can see why it was such a controversy).

And then this election cycle comes around they're acting like pigs who feel that they're entitled to the White House for a 2nd time just because of their name and past history.

Well I'm sorry but I don't sure that type of conduct and their statements/behavior have turned me and my folks off from them.

There are plenty of excellent Democratic leaders and members who have plenty of political clout/knowledge and great campaigning skills which can be put to great use for Obama in the Summer and Fall without the baggage that HRC brings.

If he wants her to help thats fine. But I wouldn't put a lot of eggs in her basket. She does not seem like a team player and I highly doubt she'll do anything with true enthusiasm for Obama.

As an outsider looking in it just seems painfully obvious to me that she's in this for one thing and one thing only...POWER.

I backed Bill and Hillary up since 1991. Bill was the very first president I ever voted for. I overlloked his personal tuff because it never had anything to do with business. I based my opinion on that, and even though some of his decisions were not sound and I disaggreed with, he left the country in better shape than when he found it.

But.........this campaign they have run has turned me off, and it does get old when people try to tell you that Hillary would be better based on this or that, and then when you disagree, they tell you how crazy you are or try to tell you your opinion is wrong.

She ran a entitled, bad campaign. She is on the verge of losing. I have respect for her, but she has to show me that she will do what's right for country and party. So far......she hasn't done that at all.

That was a really good post and I have to admit that you're very right about her being able to contribute...its just that I'm not even sure if I want Obama to be placed in that position.

I understand the sentiment but if you look at it from a party perspective and not focus too much on the individuals then you might soften a little on that.

I mean I'm sorry but I just don't get the feeling that I can trust Hilary Clinton or Bill Clinton.

I don't find them trustworthy either but they will acquiesce to the extent they need to for the sake of their standing in the party.

And then this election cycle comes around they're acting like pigs who feel that they're entitled to the White House for a 2nd time just because of their name and past history.

I'm not big on name calling and I don't see them as acting that way. I see them as doing whatever it takes to get what they want. ITA on the entitlement deal.

Well I'm sorry but I don't sure that type of conduct and their statements/behavior have turned me and my folks off from them.

I've heard that sentiment expressed quite a bit. They do have their fans though.

There are plenty of excellent Democratic leaders and members who have plenty of political clout/knowledge and great campaigning skills which can be put to great use for Obama in the Summer and Fall without the baggage that HRC brings.

This is true.

If he wants her to help thats fine. But I wouldn't put a lot of eggs in her basket. She does not seem like a team player and I highly doubt she'll do anything with true enthusiasm for Obama.

It's kind of hard to lose and then have the ability to root for the person who beat you. In the interest of the party, they have to play that game though. I doubt he will trust her but he will recognize that she has a reputation to uphold and that she is unlikely to willfully do anything else to damage it.

As an outsider looking in it just seems painfully obvious to me that she's in this for one thing and one thing only...POWER.

I think it's more than power but in all fairness, among other things Obama is also directly or indirectly striving for the same thing.

And, let me say this about this post.

There are people who hardly ever post in this thread, who come in here, make smart posts, then leave and either go back to lurking or leave the board. Now, my comment was reported as being out of line. For that, I'm truly sorry.

But some need to start realizing that Mods and Admins are people too, and staff members have just as much right to post things and not take BS from members as everyone else does.

I hope in the future people will realize that and remember that respect goes both ways.......it just doesn't go from staff to members.

Both ways.

I know you are referring to me. The reason I dont post more is because of you. You make rude remarks and come down on posters who have different views than you do. My remark above was not a smart one...I was just stating my opinion. You dont know if Obama will be president. There is still a ways to go. That is all I was saying. If you werent so cruel to me and other posters I might post some intelligent stuff you find worthy of. As a mod you should not be so anti everyone on this thread. YOu should be fair. And you are not. I didnt report you. But I guess I am not the only one who feels you bashing other posters on this thread. It is obvious.

I know you are referring to me. The reason I dont post more is because of you. You make rude remarks and come down on posters who have different views than you do. My remark above was not a smart one...I was just stating my opinion. You dont know if Obama will be president. There is still a ways to go. That is all I was saying. If you werent so cruel to me and other posters I might post some intelligent stuff you find worthy of. As a mod you should not be so anti everyone on this thread. YOu should be fair. And you are not. I didnt report you. But I guess I am not the only one who feels you bashing other posters on this thread. It is obvious.

Whatever.

You never do anything wrong. It's always everyone else.

So......whatever.

Also amazing that I didn't refer to anyone by name.......but they assumed I was talikng about them.

Wonder why?

First of all, Roman was not talking about you. Secondly just because he is a moderator doesn't mean he isn't supposed to have an opinion. People who post in this thread are posting as themselves, not as a staff member of SON. This is why political threads aren't allowed at SON because people get upset when moderators or admins post in threads and say things they don't like.

Since we're being honest, one of the things I, as an administrator is to try and make sure moderators aren't being condescending and mean to posters. However, we are ALL human. And eventually, even moderators lose their composure and start giving back what is dished out to them. It's not fair, but it happens, and it's dealt with internally when it does. Roman knows sometimes his posts come off wrong, which is why he has been making an effort to not have that happen.

Roman wanted to clarify his post and he apologized for his comment. He didn't have to. He wasn't forced to, but he did.

AP: Obama has delegates to clinch nomination

Tally follows Clinton sources saying she's ready to acknowledge

Chris Carlson / AP

NBC News

updated 1:41 p.m. ET June 3, 2008

CHICAGO - Barack Obama effectively clinched the Democratic presidential nomination Tuesday, the Associated Press reported, citing its tally of convention delegates. He would become the first black candidate ever to lead a major U.S. party into a fall campaign for the White House.

NBC News has been maintaining its own tally, which stood at Obama being 30.5 delegates short of the 2,118 needed.

The AP tally was based on public commitments from delegates as well as more than a dozen private commitments. It also included a minimum number of delegates Obama was guaranteed even if he lost the final two primaries in South Dakota and Montana later in the day.

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Two sources with the Hillary Rodham Clinton campaign earlier Tuesday said she will acknowledge that Obama has the delegates to secure the Democratic nomination.

After the report, her campaign promptly issued a statement saying, "Senator Clinton will not concede the nomination this evening."

But the statement did not say Clinton wouldn't acknowledge Obama's delegate count, a move that would effectively end her bid to be the nation's first female president.

The AP report, which cited two campaign sources, said the former first lady would stop short of formally suspending or ending her race in her speech in New York City, but that for all intents and purposes the campaign was over.

Harold Ickes, a top campaign official, said that Clinton would not drop out of the race. Asked on MSNBC what she would say if, after primaries Tuesday in Montana and South Dakota, Obama had enough delegates to clinch the nomination, he replied: "She will say what she will say when she says it."

Earlier on the TODAY show, Clinton campaign chairman Terry McAuliffe said Tuesday that once Obama gets the majority of convention delegates, "I think Hillary Clinton will congratulate him and call him the nominee."

The outcome could come by the end of the day with some choreography by the party's superdelegates. The party insiders were lining up behind Obama at a rate that could seal the nomination once results are in from Montana and South Dakota — or even before.

Challenge unlikely

Clinton, once seen as a sure bet in her historic quest to become the first female president, was still pressing the superdelegates to support her fading candidacy. But McAuliffe indicated she was not inclined to drag out a dispute over delegates from the unsanctioned Michigan primary despite feeling shortchanged by a weekend compromise by the party's rules committee that she could still appeal to a higher level.

Superdelegate sampling

Here's a look at some of the Democratic Convention's 796 superdelegates.

"I don't think she's going to go to the credentials committee," he said on NBC's "Today" show. Taking the matter to that committee would essentially extend the dispute into the convention and deny Democrats the unity they sorely want to achieve against Republican John McCain.

However, the campaign was upset that the AP report came out as voters were still going to the polls.

Meantime, seeing the cards fall into place for his November rival, McCain planned a prime time speech Tuesday night in the New Orleans suburb of Kenner, La., in what is essentially a kickoff of the fall campaign.

Today show

On Tuesday, House Majority Whip and unpledged delegate James Clyburn told the TODAY show that he was throwing his support behind Obama.

"I believe the nomination of Senator Obama is our party's best chance for victory in November, and our nation's best hope for much needed change," the South Carolina representative said.

"Once the last votes are cast, then it's in everybody's interest to resolve this quickly so we can pivot," he added.

Obama has said there were a lot of superdelegates who have been private supporters of his but wanted to respect the process by not endorsing until the final primaries were done.

"We're still working the phones and we're still talking to people ... so we'll certainly have to wait until a little later tonight to see what the final tally is, but we certainly feel good waking up this morning," Robert Gibbs, Obama's spokesman, told CNN on Tuesday.

In a defiant shot across the GOP bow, Obama, who returned to hometown Chicago late Monday, planned to hold his wrap-up rally in St. Paul, Minn., at the arena that will be the site of the Republican National Convention in September.

Clinton rally in NYC

Clinton returned to New York, the state she represents in the Senate, planning an end-of-primary evening rally in Manhattan after a grueling campaign finale as she pushed through South Dakota on Monday.

"I'm just very grateful we kept this campaign going until South Dakota would have the last word," she said at a restaurant in Rapid City in one of her final campaign stops. Polls suggested Obama would win both South Dakota and Montana.

She still sounded buoyant. Her biggest booster and most tireless campaigner, husband Bill Clinton, didn't. "This may be the last day I'm ever involved in a campaign of this kind," the former president said somberly as he stumped for her in South Dakota.

Ahead of Tuesday's concluding primaries, Obama sought to set the stage for reconciliation, praising Clinton's endurance and determination and offering to meet with her — on her terms — "once the dust settles" from their race.

"The sooner we can bring the party together, the sooner we can start focusing on McCain in November," Obama told reporters in Michigan. He said he spoke with Clinton on Sunday when he called to congratulate her on winning the Puerto Rico primary, most likely her last hurrah.

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That fueled speculation for a "dream ticket" in which Clinton would become Obama's running mate — but neither camp was suggesting that was much of a possibility.

In the AP interview, Obama was asked when he would start looking for a running mate.

"The day after I have gotten that last delegate needed to officially claim the nomination, I'll start thinking about vice presidential nominees," he said. "It's a very important decision, and it's one where I'm going to have to take some time."

Clinton finished a whirlwind four days of campaigning that took her from New York to Puerto Rico to South Dakota and back. For a campaign pushing against long odds, it was a show of determination.

The former first lady, suffering from a recurrent cough, had to cede the microphone to her daughter Chelsea twice Monday as she struggled to recover her voice. Chelsea promptly took the opportunity — to discuss health care.

Breaking News.

Former President Jimmy Carter endorses Barack Obama.

Hillary clinton will concede tuesday night if obama hits the 2,118 mark, which we all know he will. Hillary has also put it out there that she will be willing to be obama's vp if it helps the dems win the white house.

Breaking News.

Former President Jimmy Carter endorses Barack Obama.

That's already old news since the media is on a roll today with all their stories about what is going to happen. Now the news is that Clinton NY surrogates have put out the word that she is open to the VP spot if it's offered. A reporter supposedly asked about it and she answered in the affirmative and Rangel is stating that she's opened.

Obama can't seem to catch a break media wise as far as I'm concerned. He hasn't clinched the nomination yet every day the media states that he has a huge problem with white voters and asks what he's going to do about it. Then they throw in a host of other voters with whom they say he has a problem and they ask what's he going to do about that? In between that they run down how many delegates he needs to win and how he has to scrape his knees for HC. He has to give up any spotlight tonight, they say, because she's owed that since she came in a whopping second behind him and he will have plenty of time to have the spotlight. Oh and now he has to go ahead and let her shake him down for the VP spot because it would be too much to ask for him to actually wait to see if he clinches the nomination and then savor the moment.

I cannot imagine why people aren't all enthused about watching the news.