Barack Obama Elected President!

[Jess]

The popular vote doesn't matter to me either. The number of delegates matters. I think Hill and Bill are sending mixed messages. On the one hand the argue that the SDs should nominate Hill because she is the candidate with the best chance of winning the general election. That would be akin to the pre-primary days when the party leaders nominated an individual who they thought could best win and best represent the party in the general election. The decision was based largely on winnability and not a bit on primary results. So as Bill says, Hillary can win the most states in November so she should be the nominee and the primary and caucus results be damned.

On the other hand, Bill and Hill argue all votes ought to be counted, including votes that they agreed earlier should not be counted, and the person with most votes -- in primary elections mind you and not caucuses -- should win.

They argue whatever it takes. I think the broadcast media has crossed the line between reporting and commentary. I think it's a mistake to have the same reporter covering a campaign and doing commentaries.

[DevotedToAMC]

I think it does, though, because it shows who the people want to be on the ticket as president but I can see why people care more about delegates than the popular vote

[Wales2004]

ITA on the media. GS is an example of someone who should be relegated to commentaries since he can't be objective period. Even in general elections he is still going to come in with party bias and I'm sure there are other reporters that fall into that category. KO and CM aren't pretending to be what they're not so I don't take issue with them even when I don't agree with them. I don't think there should be any news story based on unnamed sources or the word on the street.

Clinton math hurts their overall credibility and it's all on tape so they can't run away from their greatest hits on what marker counts today. They appear dishonest when on one day doesn't matter but it matters the next day because it helps them and they pass it off as for the good of the people.

When Kennedy-Johnson is brought up as this great example of party unification, the impact of the media and internet in these times are not being considered. The public wasn't as exposed to whatever fighting and ugliness went on in times past as they are now and there wasn't as much weighing in as there is now. We certainly did not have cable tv programs devoted to almost round the clock discussion of political issues and youtube moments.

What determines the selection for the nominee, the popular vote total or the delegate count?

[Roman]

I would prefer that myself, but if you ever bring up your candidate's faults, the ones against him/her will spend all day on that.......

Then call you stupid or silly if you bring up the faults or mistakes of their candidate.

It almost cuts off honest debate because you spend all your time with those blinders on backing your candidate no matter what.

[Wales2004]

I was thinking more in terms of just admitting the candidate said something wrong as opposed to voluntarily bringing up faults. I think they need better analysts who can demonstrate a high level of maturity.

My question for the day is which determines the nominee, the popular vote or the delegates?

[Roman]

And Kennedy-Johnson worked only by accident, because the Kennedy campaign thought he would turn the VP nom down.

The math would work if they would pick one argument and stick with it. They change every day......and then don't remember the last argument they made, then get mad and play the victim card when members of the press point this out. I didn't keep changing the argument......they did.

Now, none of the arguments hold weight.

[Wales2004]

I am not looking for an answer on the Cintons' math, I am trying to pin down whether the nomination is based on the popular vote or on the delegates?

If it is based on the popular vote then why would PR be included in the popular vote when their citizens are not allowed to vote in the general election and why is a convention held if the delegates are not the ones who determine the nomination?

[Roman]

Keep wishing on that, my friend. The ratins and readership is obviously more important than getting it right and keeping it fair.

A few do......Keith does, and when he's not ranting like a sick dog, Chris Mathews can. Dan Abrahms does a pretty decent job of it as well, and I have respect for him.

I just can't watch the other networks. CNN used to be the standard bearer......now it's just bad tv. I guess they're trying to compete with Fixed News.

And them? I'd like to see a reporter on there first where the truth was more important than partisan bullshit.

It's based on whatever they can get away with.

[Wales2004]

I mean according to the DNC. If the rules say that the person with the specified number of delegates wins the nomination and the rules are not going to be changed for this primary then what difference does Clinton math or the accuracy/inaccuracy of the popular vote total make and whether it includes votes of those who cannot participate in the general election? The only reason the popular vote total was brought up by HC in the first place was as an argument to the super delegates and now it's just a source of confusion to the general public since it's based on flawed data.

If the popular vote determined the nomination then the number needed to clinch the nomination would be based on the popular vote total and not the delegate total. Obama needs roughly 56 delegates to win the nomination and it doesn't matter how much of the popular vote he has since it doesn't change the fact that he needs x number of delegates.

[Roman]

I think what also makes it difficult to turn over is that her own people voted to strip the states......and now that they need them, no one has said they made a mistake.

I see your point though.

[David_Vickers]

I did NOT say that. But oh well. I'm sick of all the fighting that's why I'm not posting in this thread much now. When Barack Obama is the nominee, and REALLY IS and not picked by the media and the Obama fanatics as the nominee, then I will change my banner to Barack Obama 2008.

[Wales2004]

Well if you're speaking of FL and MI then yes their argument is weakened by it being self serving. They're still after delegates and if they're not going to get enough to put her in the lead then this stirring the pot is for naught. I think it will turn out to be energy wasted.

[Roman]

As far as I'm concerned, he has the nomination. If she wants to turn her heels, that's on her.

I just wonder what the argument will be after this Saturday?

[Soapsuds]

I like your Hillary banner better.

[Dr. Jay S.W.]

You wrote that you wouldn't be suprised if an African american Obama supporter, no excuse me, "Especially" an African american Obama supporter tried to kill Hillary...Were you just talking out of your ass or do you actually have a reason for thinking that, which any normal, politically speaking person would? That's why I asked, you have to have some reason for thinking so.