See I don't get why ABC seems to be the ONLY network that gets singled out regarding this. I mean all 3 of their soaps are CONSISTENTLY in the top 5, yet CBS CONSISTENLY has TWO soaps in the top 5 and TWO soaps at the bottom, not exactly something to brag about IMO.

Anyways I'm NOT saying ABC doesn't have problems, it has ALOT and yes IMO Frons is a huge one, but you can't get rid of Frons and think things might change, they could always bring in someone much, much worse.

I do think think they need to give Frons alot less control over the soaps though, reign him in some, and bring in someone to work with him that isn't a "yes man or yes woman"

I

See I don't get why ABC seems to be the ONLY network that gets singled out regarding this.

Actually, I think ABC and CBS are the ones that have it pretty good, more often NBC is the one that's trashed and singled out for both the condition of their soaps (now SOAP) and their ratings declinde. ABC and CBS sure have suffered, but neither network has suffered the declinde that NBC has.

See I don't get why ABC seems to be the ONLY network that gets singled out regarding this. I mean all 3 of their soaps are CONSISTENTLY in the top 5, yet CBS CONSISTENLY has TWO soaps in the top 5 and TWO soaps at the bottom, not exactly something to brag about IMO.

Anyways I'm NOT saying ABC doesn't have problems, it has ALOT and yes IMO Frons is a huge one, but you can't get rid of Frons and think things might change, they could always bring in someone much, much worse.

I do think think they need to give Frons alot less control over the soaps though, reign him in some, and bring in someone to work with him that isn't a "yes man or yes woman"

I agree....none of the soaps are looking very good these days. Frons is an idiot, but you're right, he could be replaced with someone twice as bad. He needs someone to be his equal and work with him and share in the decisions, that way AMC, OLTL, and GH might have a little better chance.

But even without Frons, the glory days of soap operas are behind us. The best we can hope for is that they will do the best they can with what's left of the genre.

I disagree. Yes, AMC and OLTL had low ratings this week. But soaps as a whole are a dying genre, it is hardly just ABCD. In most weeks' ratings, the three ABC soaps have lost fewer viewers since the same week the previous year than nearly every other soap. I mean, in the past year, Passions was kicked off of network TV, DOOL and ATWT have hemoraged viewers, and Y&R's quality has gone down the drain. B&B has lost viewers, especially in the prized women 18-49 demo, and GL has been hovering on the brink of cancellation for as long as anyone can remember. I would say that comparatively, ABCD is holding steady. I mean, let's take another look:

1. Y&R 4.0/15 (same/-.3)

2. B&B 2.8/10 (same/-.3)

3. GH 2.5/8 (same/same)

4. OLTL 2.3/8 (-.1/-.1) <---- ties low rating

5. ATWT 2.2/8 (same/-.3)

5. AMC 2.2/8 (-.1/-.2) <---- ties low rating

7. GL 2.0/6 (+.1/-.2)

8. DAYS 1.9/7 (-.1/-.6)

Yes, OLTL is down .1 since the same week last year, and AMC is down .2, but every CBS or NBC soap except GL is down more than that.

Frons is very flawed, but I don't think he's awful at his job, and I don't think firing him will do any good. Soap fans, at least internet fans, are the most frustrated people on the internet. All we do is complain and scream that various people should be fired. And then when people do get fired, the fans are hapy for about a week, before they start complaining again, and often saying that they want the old writer/producer/exec back. Daytime has bigger problems than Brian Frons.

And lately, I think he's really been trying hard to save daytime. The firings of DH and MM are ones that I acually approve of. I think the replacements have been doing great jobs. OLTL has been so great lately.

And let's not forget that Frons had a lot to do with the creation of SOAPnet and of Night Shift. He's trying hard to find innovative ways to fnd new viewers. Frankly, I hate Niht shift, but I applaud ABCD for at least trying something new. Because let's face it: if soaps don't try anything else (and CBS and NBC haven't), soaps don't have long left.

Frons is the worst thing to happen to ABC Daytime Ever. ABC can try whatever new nonsense, it's Doug Marland's vintage guidelines, Nixon's classic forumla for soaps that work. The horror show that is known today as AMC is NOT AMC and THAT's why people don't watch. Same for the other soaps. Also, usually when we are SOOOO frustrated as to call for a specific person to be fired we NEVER want them back. I don't think there is a soap fan alive who wishes to inflict ANY soap with the trashtacular writing styles of Megan McTavish. We wanted her gone in 97, didn't want her back in 03 and never want to see her again. Same for others. I for one, want Frons banished from television, but that doesn't mean I want Angela Shapiro back as ABC Daytime Prez (Maybe Felicia Bher). I think ABC soap fans complainin in lue of changing the chanel because it pains us to see how bad the shows are doing. Sure, there have always been things that have upset us but MAN, nothing in say 1995 would have made us as angry as we are almost daily, these days.

It's funny how hindsight works--NO ONE at the time liked Angela Shapiro's managing of the schedule except maybe for creating Super Soap Weekend. But that was her thing--she focused more on hiring people for the shows (even if many of her choices were suspect) and then more or less leaving them be and focusing on ideas like Shop the SOaps

It's funny how hindsight works--NO ONE at the time liked Angela Shapiro's managing of the schedule...

Does anyone think when the time comes for Frons to leave that his replacement will be a marked improvement over his tenure? First there was McTavish, now there's Esensten & Brown. On OLTL, many people complained about Maxine Levinson, then came JFP. The same occured in the HW arena with Claire & Matthew Labine, followed by Pamela Long, then McTavish. On GL, there was Ellen Weston, followed by David Kreizman. On the producing side, there was Paul Rauch, followed by John Conboy, followed by Ellen Wheeler. It seems as if the successors are worse than the predecessors.

I just can't think of anyone worse than Frons. Worse would be someone who involvs him/herself much less with each soap which in this case would be better--get it?

Oh, I agree with you there...the Daytime genre as a whole in on the decline, and has been for sometime now. The decline has really started to become evident in the last 10-15 years or so. I think there are a number of reasons soaps have declined so much from their glory days in the '70s and '80s. More women are working and not watching soaps, the huge increase in channels to choose from, and the internet, just to name a few.

But yes, Daytime soaps are a sinking ship these days, and may be history within the next 10 years or so.

The audience for soaps really peaked during the mid-70s when some of the top-rated soaps (ATWT and AW) could pull over 10 million viewers each day. One suspects that there was a gentle decline in overall soap viewership after then, interrupted by the surge of ABC Daytime around 1979-80.

But here's the catch. Given that soap viewership declined in each decade (which was generally an accepted reality), why is it that nobody pannicked about the future and viability of the genre as much then? By 1990, ratings were down from the previous decade. By 2000, ratings were down on the previous decade too... but even then it didn't seem as bad. Just my observations.

I just can't think of anyone worse than Frons. Worse would be someone who involvs him/herself much less with each soap which in this case would be better--get it?

I would like to see someone with a balanced approach- who is intelligent, passionate, and creative as well. Being too involved or taking a back seat to the job is not how one should approach the job.

Frons is very flawed, but I don't think he's awful at his job, and I don't think firing him will do any good. Soap fans, at least internet fans, are the most frustrated people on the internet. All we do is complain and scream that various people should be fired. And then when people do get fired, the fans are hapy for about a week, before they start complaining again, and often saying that they want the old writer/producer/exec back. Daytime has bigger problems than Brian Frons.

And lately, I think he's really been trying hard to save daytime. The firings of DH and MM are ones that I acually approve of. I think the replacements have been doing great jobs. OLTL has been so great lately.

And let's not forget that Frons had a lot to do with the creation of SOAPnet and of Night Shift. He's trying hard to find innovative ways to fnd new viewers. Frankly, I hate Niht shift, but I applaud ABCD for at least trying something new. Because let's face it: if soaps don't try anything else (and CBS and NBC haven't), soaps don't have long left.

Soapfans love drama, and if there isn't enough of it onscreen, they create their own. Someone is always going to dislike something. However, there is much to dislike about the general nature of soaps right now, and some disgruntlement with Frons is justified.

Frons has repeatedly through his choice of programming and interview quotes shown that he has a really low opinion of the public he supposedly serves. For some of those quotes alone, he should have been shown the door a long time ago. Soap fans 'need to be trained' he spoke as he outlined his vision. In the same video segment, he said that no one wanted to see a middle aged woman in a love story, re Genie Francis. He called Y and R fans the 'nursing home crowd.'

Since he took over, ABCD blatantly publicizes its show of skin. In one interview, Frons responded to someone commenting on how dark the summer stories were, pointed at the then new Jess and Nash, saying that a lot of young hot people running around scantily dressed would distract people from the darkness. Just recently, FV highlighted that an upcoming summer episode would feature Tuc Watkins in a speedo.It's always going to be there at some level, but the openness of it is at best questionable, especially when also openly targetting teen girls.

Frons may have Fired DH and MM, but only under extreme pressure. He is also the one who HIRED them. DH's tenure was far, far too long. The 'improvements' Carlivati is making to OLTL is basically returning it to the shape it was in when Malone left.

I believe Soapnet was well in place before Frons. Frons has only been managing Soapnet for just over a year - and pushed Fashionista Diaries onto it as 'original programming'. His loyalty is not to soaps, but to whatever he can market most profitably.

Oops, my mistake on SOAPnet.

Believe me, I'm not Frons's biggest fan. There are a lot of things I hate about him. I've heard that he's a huge fan of the mob storylines on GH, and there is not one single thing I long for more in soaps than the back-burner-ing of the mob. I hold him partly responsible for GH's failure to give Genie Francis a contract. I agree that he kept DH and MM too long, and wish he would fire Guza. I don't think I ever said that I was a fan of his.

What I did say was that I don't think he's necessarily such a terrible thing for soaps. For me, quality is less important than the long-term survival of the soaps. And yes, believe me, I understand that quality is a very important ingredient in the survival of soaps, but CBS soaps are, in my opinion, of a higher quality than ABCD, and yet the numbers on many of their soaps, and the NBC soaps are dropping much faster than ABCD. The ABC soaps are very flawed, but I expect them to last longer, and I think a small part of the reason why is thanks to Frons.

I would love to see my soaps get better, and reach the level of quality they were at in previous decades, and there are a lot of things I think Frons could be doing that he isn't, but I do see ABCD taking risks and making efforts to innovate within soaps to bring in viewers in a way that the other networks are not.

So just to reiterate: I am not a fan of Frons. All I am trying to do is point out some of the good things he has done for daytime, since bashing tends to be one-sided and repetitive. Sorry, I'm a contrarian.

And in answer to the question of who could be worse, maybe someone who let soaps die without any efforts to turn things around.

Week of September 17-21, 2007

Total Viewers (Last Week/Last Year) (Same Week: 2003)

3. GH 3,383,000 (+17,000/+238,000) (-682,000)

4. OLTL 3,059,000 (+63,000/+7,000) (-504,000)

6. AMC 2,802,000 (+10,000/-188,000) (-756,000)

Total Viewers: Same Week 2003

3. GH 4.065 million viewers

6. OLTL 3.563

7. AMC 3.558

Household Ratings: 2007/Same Week 2003

3. GH 2.6/3.1 (-.5)

4. OLTL 2.4/2.8 (-.4)

5. AMC 2.2/2.9 (-.7)

Women 18-49 Viewers: Same Week 2003

1. GH 1,161,000 (+42,000/-6,000) (-499,000)

GH--Friday: 3,271,000 Looks like the Michele Val Jean/Mary Sue Price treatment is paying off

With November Sweeps around the corner, and possible budget cuts (budgets are based on Sweeps ratings), ABC Daytime is not looking good.

One thing GH needs to do is create interesting stories for characters like Epiphany, Jane, Monica, Edward, Scott, Helena, Alice, Jimmy Lee, Lesley, Blackie, Mike, Bobbie, Joe Kelly, Alexis, Skye, Anna, Holly, Mac, Lucas, and Robert. This will surely increase viewership.

AMC needs a complete creative overhaul.

Why is that OLTL does not entice more past thespians to return like GH does. OLTL needs the ratings boost, and ABC can afford the costs.

Week of October 1-5, 2007

Total Viewers (Last Year) (Same Week 2003)

3. GH 3,030,000 (-43,000) (-848,000)

4. OLTL 2,760,000 (-145,000) (-742,000)

6. AMC 2,623,000 (-222,000) (-996,000)

Total Viewers: Same Week 2003

3. GH 3.878 million viewers

5. AMC 3.619

7. OLTL 3.502

Household Ratings: 2007/Same Week 2003

3. GH 2.4/3.1 (-.7)

5. AMC 2.2/3.1 (-.9)

5. OLTL 2.2/3.0 (-.8)

Blackie?! Joe Kelly??

Alice and Jimmy Lee??!

You are indeed taking me...to another world. But it's scary.

I agree, I might even say that ABC is the most stable if not doing down right excellent compared to CBS and NBC and seems Frons is trying to make changes,

I disagree. Yes, AMC and OLTL had low ratings this week. But soaps as a whole are a dying genre, it is hardly just ABCD. In most weeks' ratings, the three ABC soaps have lost fewer viewers since the same week the previous year than nearly every other soap. I mean, in the past year, Passions was kicked off of network TV, DOOL and ATWT have hemoraged viewers, and Y&R's quality has gone down the drain. B&B has lost viewers, especially in the prized women 18-49 demo, and GL has been hovering on the brink of cancellation for as long as anyone can remember. I would say that comparatively, ABCD is holding steady. I mean, let's take another look:

1. Y&R 4.0/15 (same/-.3)

2. B&B 2.8/10 (same/-.3)

3. GH 2.5/8 (same/same)

4. OLTL 2.3/8 (-.1/-.1) <---- ties low rating

5. ATWT 2.2/8 (same/-.3)

5. AMC 2.2/8 (-.1/-.2) <---- ties low rating

7. GL 2.0/6 (+.1/-.2)

8. DAYS 1.9/7 (-.1/-.6)

Yes, OLTL is down .1 since the same week last year, and AMC is down .2, but every CBS or NBC soap except GL is down more than that.

Frons is very flawed, but I don't think he's awful at his job, and I don't think firing him will do any good. Soap fans, at least internet fans, are the most frustrated people on the internet. All we do is complain and scream that various people should be fired. And then when people do get fired, the fans are hapy for about a week, before they start complaining again, and often saying that they want the old writer/producer/exec back. Daytime has bigger problems than Brian Frons.

And lately, I think he's really been trying hard to save daytime. The firings of DH and MM are ones that I acually approve of. I think the replacements have been doing great jobs. OLTL has been so great lately.

And let's not forget that Frons had a lot to do with the creation of SOAPnet and of Night Shift. He's trying hard to find innovative ways to fnd new viewers. Frankly, I hate Niht shift, but I applaud ABCD for at least trying something new. Because let's face it: if soaps don't try anything else (and CBS and NBC haven't), soaps don't have long left.