Sam gets my sympathy for several different reasons. Not all concerning this storyline. But that's neither here nor there. The bottom line is that Sam isn't lying to Lucky. Sam has actually been more honest to him then anyone else in his entire family. That was my point in stating that comment. Do you disagree? It's pretty much a fact that Sam has been the most honest person in Lucky's life.

I don't think so but the question is will Lucky think she's the model of honesty if he finds out about the park incident because Sam intentionally misled him with her statements and did those men weren't from Everyday Heroes were they?

Sam is using Lucky, Sam is trying to break Lucky's marriage. She is doing all of this. Lucky knows this. He's not a victim here. He knows what Sam is doing and Sam admits to it when he confronts her about it. They are both on equal footing in their relationship sadly that isn't the case with Lucky and lying Webber.

They're not entirely on equal footing because he doesn't know that she watched a baby get kidnapped and did nothing to try and prevent it nor did she come forward about it. She hired men to scare Elizabeth and pull out guns in front of a couple of kids and let him believe that the men were after Jason. I'd say that is the basis for a nice honest relationship. But you're right that he is going into the sex with his eyes open,

That's not Lucky's kid. That's Jason's kid. Sam did not terrorize anyone. She hired actors to scare Liz that's all. No Elizabeth is doing a horriable selfish thing by lying and telling Lucky that Jake is his son when he isn't. That fact is going to tear him apart more then anything Lucky has ever went through before.

I don't agree.

It doesn't matter whose child it is. You make it sound like a pretty reasonable and sane thing to do. Hire actors to play thugs and scare a woman and her children in the park. Did I say Elizabeth wasn't doing a horrible thing in keeping the secret and lying to Lucky? No. What I said is that it's not worse than his addiction. The addiction could have killed him, the secret will not. Look Helena can always brainwash him and make him forget it happen if it's that traumatic but again, it won't cost him his life and he'll have other things to tear him apart more than that will as shocking as it may be.

The fact that you believe that a child is yours and then after two years of beliving that it turns out that it isn't your child is more damaging then anything Lucky could come up with IMO. No one is saying that Lucky wouldn't love Jake because he isn't biologically his. But it would hurt him more then anything. It would tear him out and would hurt him greater then anything he has experienced. His entire foundation of soberity was for that child (his child) his entire reason for getting better was because he wanted to be better. He wanted to be a father to that child and finding out that he isn't the babies biological father would be more hurtful then anything Liz has gone through with Lucky's addiction.

How long was Elizabeth pregnant that two years passed? I thought she slept with Jason last year August and they just made the year mark so what are you talking about? You just pointed out a fundamental problem with the character of Lucky. He should have wanted to be a better man for himself. If his sole reason for doing this was for Jake then oh well. He can go learn to love himself now. Unless Lucky is sterile then he can still have his own child and I don't think it is worse than anything Elizabeth went through with his addiction. But if she is supposed to forgive and get over it then he should be able to do the same.

I don't see Sam that way. She is clearly the "villian" in this storyline. I just like the villian who is able to admit she does wrong over the whoring, hypocritical lying Webber.

I think you're over the top saying that Elizabeth is whoring because one night is not whoring. Now hypocritcal and lying she is. And Sam constantly yaps that she's the victim so I don't see how she admits to anything but going after Lucky. Whatever else she does somewhat admit to is all Jason's and Elizabeth's fault according to her. Apparently they held a gun to her head and forced her to sleep with Ric which set a chain of events in motion that led to her being where she is. If she'd stop doing pathetic things like calling Jason over to tell him yet again that she is going to sleep with Lucky, she'd make a better villain.

Did Lying Webber tell Lucky that she is in love with Jason? That she carried his child? That she made out with Jason? A big no to all of the above. Lucky has been more honest with Liz then the former.

That's why Lucky spent the better half of 2006/2007 trying to get Liz to forgive him. All the while she was lying to him.

If being more honest isn't the same as being honest (without qualifications) then your point is lost on me. The bottom line is that Lucky is not this completely honest and truthful husband that you were painting him as. I don't care if he's more honest than Elizabeth because it's a fact that she's lying and it's not a point of dispute. Her lies don't negate his or any of his actions.

Elizabeth's lie is about to come out anyway so it will be a moot point pretty soon.

I think you're over the top saying that Elizabeth is whoring because one night is not whoring. Now hypocritcal and lying she is. And Sam constantly yaps that she's the victim so I don't see how she admits to anything but going after Lucky. Whatever else she does somewhat admit to is all Jason's and Elizabeth's fault according to her. Apparently they held a gun to her head and forced her to sleep with Ric which set a chain of events in motion that led to her being where she is. If she'd stop doing pathetic things like calling Jason over to tell him yet again that she is going to sleep with Lucky, she'd make a better villain.

I agree. I'm so sick and tired of Sam saying Jason and Liz ruined her life. She did that all on her own. SHE chose to have sex with Ric. Liz and Jason didn't make her do that. If Sam would say 'Hey, I messed up by sleeping with Ric and that lead to Jason sleeping with Liz' I'd have some repect for her but she's deemed herself the victim of big, bad Liz and Jason and now they must pay. Not one of the four people invloved in this s/l are victims because all of their actions led up to this point. And if Sam had half a brain, she'd see that sleeping with Lucky doesn't hurt Liz because Liz isn't in love with Lucky. So in the end, Sam will end up hurting only herself.

I agree. I'm so sick and tired of Sam saying Jason and Liz ruined her life. She did that all on her own. SHE chose to have sex with Ric. Liz and Jason didn't make her do that. If Sam would say 'Hey, I messed up by sleeping with Ric and that lead to Jason sleeping with Liz' I'd have some repect for her but she's deemed herself the victim of big, bad Liz and Jason and now they must pay. Not one of the four people invloved in this s/l are victims because all of their actions led up to this point. And if Sam had half a brain, she'd see that sleeping with Lucky doesn't hurt Liz because Liz isn't in love with Lucky. So in the end, Sam will end up hurting only herself.

She HAS said that numerous times over the past year. She has never been angry about the ONS bc she knows what led upto it. She has defended Jason on that when he was bashed for it and she's blamed herself to other people. She is pissed at how Elizabeth wouldnt leave her and Jason alone and how she kept overstepping her boundaries. Plus she's jealous that she has a child and she cant have any. She's pissed at Jason for lying to her and not trusting her enough to tell the truth. She's mad that he had this whole other life with Liz that he kept seperate from her and that he didnt want to share Jake with her. She's pissed that she's been shut out and tossed aside. She and Jason were fine. Things didnt change until Liz told him about the baby and thats when her relationship went downhill. She's pissed at Liz for that and Jason for following Liz and placing Sam on the backburner as a result. She has every right to be mad at them. With that said, those two losers deserve each other and arent worth all the effort she's going to to get revenge. She is much better without Jason and I wish she'd realize that and move on from the Liz/Jason drama

She HAS said that numerous times over the past year. She has never been angry about the ONS bc she knows what led upto it. She has defended Jason on that when he was bashed for it and she's blamed herself to other people. She is pissed at how Elizabeth wouldnt leave her and Jason alone and how she kept overstepping her boundaries. Plus she's jealous that she has a child and she cant have any. She's pissed at Jason for lying to her and not trusting her enough to tell the truth. She's mad that he had this whole other life with Liz that he kept seperate from her and that he didnt want to share Jake with her. She's pissed that she's been shut out and tossed aside. She and Jason were fine. Things didnt change until Liz told him about the baby and thats when her relationship went downhill. She's pissed at Liz for that and Jason for following Liz and placing Sam on the backburner as a result. She has every right to be mad at them. With that said, those two losers deserve each other and arent worth all the effort she's going to to get revenge. She is much better without Jason and I wish she'd realize that and move on from the Liz/Jason drama

Sam's actions contradict her statements. She is indeed mad about the ONS and the baby that resulted. As for Liz not leaving her and Jason alone, when? When Liz and Jason were spending time together before the ONS, Jason and Sam weren't together. Afterwards, it was mainly about the baby. It's kinda hard to leave the father of your child alone, secret or not. Liz never over stepped her boundaries with Jason. In all honesty, Sam was just barely his girlfriend. The boundary line was almost non existent. I get that she's ticked at Jason for lying to her, but she's only going after Liz. Why is that? So what she's jealous she can't have kids. What's that got to do with Liz? Is Jason's sperm exclusively hers? With the way things have turned out, Jason was right not to trust Sam with the secret. She turned on him at the drop of a dime. Jake has a mom. Why would Sam expect Liz to allow Jason to share Jake with her? This is not the same as her situation with Sonny where one of the parents didn't want to take responsibility. In my opinion, Sam never had a right to be mad at Liz. Liz was not in a relationship with her. Her anger should be focused on Jason.

Sam's actions contradict her statements. She is indeed mad about the ONS and the baby that resulted. As for Liz not leaving her and Jason alone, when? When Liz and Jason were spending time together before the ONS, Jason and Sam weren't together. Afterwards, it was mainly about the baby. It's kinda hard to leave the father of your child alone, secret or not. Liz never over stepped her boundaries with Jason. In all honesty, Sam was just barely his girlfriend. The boundary line was almost non existent. I get that she's ticked at Jason for lying to her, but she's only going after Liz. Why is that? So what she's jealous she can't have kids. What's that got to do with Liz? Is Jason's sperm exclusively hers? With the way things have turned out, Jason was right not to trust Sam with the secret. She turned on him at the drop of a dime. Jake has a mom. Why would Sam expect Liz to allow Jason to share Jake with her? This is not the same as her situation with Sonny where one of the parents didn't want to take responsibility. In my opinion, Sam never had a right to be mad at Liz. Liz was not in a relationship with her. Her anger should be focused on Jason.

barely his gf? She was his fiancee at one time. They talked about marriage and tried to have a child together. They were together for nearly 3 years. I dont think their relationship can be as easily dismissed as "barely being his gf"

I was talking about the time Liz and Jason spent after the ONS. Liz was always going to the PH to talk to Jason and see him. She was spending more time with him than warranted? Just friends? Coudlnt she have gone to her girlfriend Emily with her problems? Nope instead she chose Jason. She looked at Jason as more than a friend. Heck she admited to being in love with him! Telling a man in a commited relationshup that you are in love with him and wish you could be with him is a no no. Id be pissed as hell. Maybe if they were just friends, Sam might have been okay, but it was obvious how Liz felt. Sam confronted her and she said that she wasnt going to stay away from Jason. She did overstep hte line by talking smack about Sam to Jason and other people. She judged their relationship and got in Sam's face about stuff that was none of her business. She bragged about her relationship with Jason and flaunted it in front of Sam. After Sam helped Liz out during the hostage crisis, she called a truce between her and Liz and tried her best to be nice to her and accepting of the "friendship" with Jason. Sam was on her best behaviour and wish the best for Liz. Things didnt change till she found out Jake's paternity and how Liz got Jason to lie and decieve her

As for the mom thing, Jake is Jason's son. He and Sam were in a commited relationship. Thats news you share with your partner. You dont keep it a hidden secret and be a daddy on the side. Jason was all kinds of wrong for that. I dont know any woman that wouldnt be mad to find out their man had a secret baby on the side and never told them. Its a natural reaction to be pissed off about that.

Edited September 17, 200718 yr by Cheap21

barely his gf? She was his fiancee at one time. They talked about marriage and tried to have a child together. They were together for nearly 3 years. I dont think their relationship can be as easily dismissed as "barely being his gf"

I was talking about the time Liz and Jason spent after the ONS. Liz was always going to the PH to talk to Jason and see him. She was spending more time with him than warranted? Just friends? Coudlnt she have gone to her girlfriend Emily with her problems? Nope instead she chose Jason. She looked at Jason as more than a friend. Heck she admited to being in love with him! Telling a man in a commited relationshup that you are in love with him and wish you could be with him is a no no. Id be pissed as hell. Maybe if they were just friends, Sam might have been okay, but it was obvious how Liz felt. Sam confronted her and she said that she wasnt going to stay away from Jason. She did overstep hte line by talking smack about Sam to Jason and other people. She judged their relationship and got in Sam's face about stuff that was none of her business. She bragged about her relationship with Jason and flaunted it in front of Sam. After Sam helped Liz out during the hostage crisis, she called a truce between her and Liz and tried her best to be nice to her and accepting of the "friendship" with Jason. Sam was on her best behaviour and wish the best for Liz. Things didnt change till she found out Jake's paternity and how Liz got Jason to lie and decieve her

As for the mom thing, Jake is Jason's son. He and Sam were in a commited relationship. Thats news you share with your partner. You dont keep it a hidden secret and be a daddy on the side. Jason was all kinds of wrong for that. I dont know any woman that wouldnt be mad to find out their man had a secret baby on the side and never told them. Its a natural reaction to be pissed off about that.

When I say barely his girlfriend, I'm speaking terms of the time after Jason broke up with her. At the time Liz and Jason were spending time together he and Sam were no longer engaged. I believe they'd both said they'd try to get back to where they were. So in terms of everything that happened, they were basically starting over from the beginning. Thats how I viewed it. As for spending time with him after the ONS, she was coming to him about Lucky. I also remember her going to Emily and Nik about Lucky's problems as well. So, she wasn't just talking to Jason about it. Still, I didn't see it as her over stepping any boundaries. I don't remember Liz telling Jason she was in love with him after the ONS. I vaguely remember her saying during she'd always been a little bit in love with him. Once again, I don't think commited is a word I'd use for a relationship that was still on shaky ground at that point. I do remember Liz telling Sam that she and Jason were friends long before Sam came into town and she wasn't going to stay away from him. Heck, I agreed with her there. As for Liz talking smack about Sam, they were both giving eachother attitude, but 9 times out of ten, Sam started it. The confrontation on the docks, the confrontation at the hospital as well. So Liz talked smacked just as much as Sam and tried to be just as civil as Sam did. Yes, if Sam and Jason had been in a commited relationship as you say, I'd agree. Jason should have told her about Jake the minute he found out. I still think he should have, but I understand why he didn't. Look how she's acting now. She can't have kids, no way she could have handled Jake under any circumstances. Not unless Jason went for custody and she didn;t have to see Liz's face. As for him not telling Sam about it because of Liz, thats not entirely true. Yes, Liz asked him not to, but I recall the day in his office, he said he was going to and though Liz objected she said if he did, she understood. So, if Jason had really wanted to tell Sam, he could have. As you say, Jason was all kinds of wrong for that, yet Sam's anger for the past year has been soley for Liz. I don't get that. It's natural to be upset, I'd be upset. I however would focus my anger on the person I was in the relationship with. I could see if Liz actively pursued Jason while he was with Sam, but she did not. She even encouraged him to work things out with Sam and acknowledged several times that she knew he was in love with Sam. Heck, she turned down his marriage purposal. Yes, she made have started to develop feelings for Jason, but she didn't act on them while he and Sam were together.

barely his gf? She was his fiancee at one time. They talked about marriage and tried to have a child together. They were together for nearly 3 years. I dont think their relationship can be as easily dismissed as "barely being his gf"

I was talking about the time Liz and Jason spent after the ONS. Liz was always going to the PH to talk to Jason and see him. She was spending more time with him than warranted? Just friends? Coudlnt she have gone to her girlfriend Emily with her problems? Nope instead she chose Jason. She looked at Jason as more than a friend. Heck she admited to being in love with him! Telling a man in a commited relationshup that you are in love with him and wish you could be with him is a no no. Id be pissed as hell. Maybe if they were just friends, Sam might have been okay, but it was obvious how Liz felt. Sam confronted her and she said that she wasnt going to stay away from Jason. She did overstep hte line by talking smack about Sam to Jason and other people. She judged their relationship and got in Sam's face about stuff that was none of her business. She bragged about her relationship with Jason and flaunted it in front of Sam. After Sam helped Liz out during the hostage crisis, she called a truce between her and Liz and tried her best to be nice to her and accepting of the "friendship" with Jason. Sam was on her best behaviour and wish the best for Liz. Things didnt change till she found out Jake's paternity and how Liz got Jason to lie and decieve her

As for the mom thing, Jake is Jason's son. He and Sam were in a commited relationship. Thats news you share with your partner. You dont keep it a hidden secret and be a daddy on the side. Jason was all kinds of wrong for that. I dont know any woman that wouldnt be mad to find out their man had a secret baby on the side and never told them. Its a natural reaction to be pissed off about that.

Oh so Jason is the real culprit and she should be taking her frustrations out on him and directing her revenge schemes toward him and not Elizabeth. She can be as angry as she wants at Elizabeth but the bottom line is she was in a relationship with Jason and he made the decision to keep her in the dark. It doesn't matter how long she was with Jason if his heart wasn't in it the entire time. The problem with her going after him is she already knows that he doesn't care so it would be futile. With Elizabeth she's wasting her time because she's doing her a favor in the long run.

The week of Sept 10-14, 2007 was GH's best week since April 2007. I LOVED, ADORED this week. The 5 SW (they truly write like nobody's bizness) deserve a raise and/or promotion! Price & Harris rocked the hell of their scripts.

Can you imagine the state of GH w/o Val Jean, Price, Wald, Harris or Thomson?

I wonder what's in store for November Sweeps. I can't wait till next week. I just hope that Frons doesn't poach any of the 5 for AMC or OLTL. Right now, DOOL, GH, Y&R, OLTL are improving.

Here's an idea: Instead of Charlie's Angels how about Guza's Angels? They're all female & they save his writing from going to Hell. I hope Frons doesn't turn this idea into ANOTHER GH spin-off.

Oh so Jason is the real culprit and she should be taking her frustrations out on him and directing her revenge schemes toward him and not Elizabeth. She can be as angry as she wants at Elizabeth but the bottom line is she was in a relationship with Jason and he made the decision to keep her in the dark. It doesn't matter how long she was with Jason if his heart wasn't in it the entire time. The problem with her going after him is she already knows that he doesn't care so it would be futile. With Elizabeth she's wasting her time because she's doing her a favor in the long run.

bc Liz is an easy target. Jason threatened to kill Sam. I think that might be part of the reason why she isnt coming down on him as hard. But still part of her revenge is also targeted at him as evidenced by her calling him this week and rubbing it in his face.

bc Liz is an easy target. Jason threatened to kill Sam. I think that might be part of the reason why she isnt coming down on him as hard. But still part of her revenge is also targeted at him as evidenced by her calling him this week and rubbing it in his face.

No, no, no... let's get it right. Jason threatened to kill Sam if she did anything to hurt Elizabeth or her children again. He didn't threaten her because she's messing with him. He could care less what Sam does. He just doesn't want her going after Elizabeth and the kids.

But still part of her revenge is also targeted at him as evidenced by her calling him this week and rubbing it in his face.

And how did that work out for her?

But still part of her revenge is also targeted at him as evidenced by her calling him this week and rubbing it in his face.

And how did that work out for her?