The numbers have to take a huge hit in the next few months IMO for Latham's job to be put in jeopardy. So as I say every week, fall Y&R fall!

Yes another person that wants Y&R to fall. I know it needs to take a fall for several months before LML get fired. But I just want three days out of the week to be 3. range while other soaps gain.

Edited July 5, 200718 yr by MoTheGreat

I just want Y&R to have three days in the 3. range. Something like this 3.6, 3.8, 3.5. I'll be a happy camper.

If "Y&R" falls...then the networks will begin canceling the other soaps, not "Y&R".

They're not going to blame LML.

You need to think hard about what you're saying.

Y&R will be the LAST soap cancelled, maybe in 7 to 8 years, but once "Y&R" falls...it will give

permission to go ahead and start canceling the other shows.

So no one should hope for ANY of the shows to fall at this moment. The ratings are so bad that

it's no longer about "fire that writer, get a new writer". Serious cancellations are being considered

across the board if at least one of these shows doesn't demonstrate that viewers want soaps.

Edited July 5, 200718 yr by ChangedBYSon

If "Y&R" falls...then the networks will begin canceling the other soaps, not "Y&R".

They're not going to blame LML.

You need to think hard about what you're saying.

Y&R will be the LAST soap cancelled, maybe in 7 to 8 years, but once "Y&R" falls...it will give

permission to go ahead and start canceling the other shows.

So no one should hope for ANY of the shows to fall at this moment. The ratings are so bad that

it's no longer about "fire that writer, get a new writer". Serious cancellations are being considered

across the board if at least one of these shows doesn't demonstrate that viewers want soaps.

Well since I'm the consumer of some of these SOAPS. I'm not happy! I'm sick and tired of being taken advantage of, teased, betrayed after years of knowing who these characters are. Having layer after layer removed, because writers and management wanted their new favorites to have a different pass history. I'm tired! 30 some years invested in some of these Soaps and if management can screw us over why can't we by not watching. If this is the end of Soaps ...... so be it!

Just remember it's The Management of these Soaps that have failed. Not us the viewers, that have failed. The blame needs to be placed respectively there on OWNERSHIP.

Ever think that maybe newer characters get played a lot more because old-timers are far more expensive, and are thus kept to their minimum guarantee? The bottom line rules everything on soaps nowadays--that's how they're surviving.

If "Y&R" falls...then the networks will begin canceling the other soaps, not "Y&R".

They're not going to blame LML.

Very true. If Y/R falls they will take it as a sign that viewers just don't want soaps anymore. If Y/R does well, it means the other soaps hang on. Unless you want no soaps at all, don't root for a Y/R fall!

I also think the soaps need to realize you get what you pay for. Look at the horrible hit DOOL took when it tried to save money by pushing "cheaper" characters/actors. They went into a tailspin and i dont know if they will ever recover.

I wonder if the soaps would do better to either go back to 1/2 hour and keep the strongest cast (who would be working less and thus get paid less, plus all the notalent newbies could go) or if they'd do better going to a weekly format- but keeping the stronger actors and going for quality, just once a week instead of daily.

The worst case scenario is once a week with a teenybopper cast with no talent, of course.

Edited July 6, 200718 yr by Reddi

You make some really interesting points. I just can't imagine how a once-a-week format is ever going to be profitable for soaps--it would become an entirely different genre, and audiences who watch to get their fix every day would probably just disappear.

These wonderful actors who have been on shows for years and years have contracts that must be honored. They've earned their salaries through their hard work and all the time they've spent honing their craft. But the system just doesn't support them, and the system itself is suffering mightily, at least at some shows...there's just no money to go around. It affects who gets played, how stories are played out, what sets are used, which ones disappear, how many characters appear in an episode...EVERYTHING. Without audience growth, it's only going to get worse.

The problem with soaps don't have that much to do with the casts but have to do with tire writers that have no vision but write the same old crap over and over again playing their viewers like fools.

If Y&R go down but the rest of the cbs soaps gain. why would they get rid of the other soaps? They need to look what Y&R is doing wrong.

Soaps need to stop recycling old tire writers & get first blood. Writers with visions.

So I don't have to watch what I'm saying. I hope Y&R lose it's #1 spot. they haven't been #1 for a long time. & LML just proves my point.

Edited July 6, 200718 yr by MoTheGreat

Well since I'm the consumer of some of these SOAPS. I'm not happy! I'm sick and tired of being taken advantage of, teased, betrayed after years of knowing who these characters are. Having layer after layer removed, because writers and management wanted their new favorites to have a different pass history. I'm tired! 30 some years invested in some of these Soaps and if management can screw us over why can't we by not watching. If this is the end of Soaps ...... so be it!

Just remember it's The Management of these Soaps that have failed. Not us the viewers, that have failed. The blame needs to be placed respectively there on OWNERSHIP.

My problem they get these has been writers who couldn't save their jobs writing for other soaps or save the soaps they was written for before the soap got cancel. What can they do for any soaps now. People are tire of boring ass storylines.

Edited July 6, 200718 yr by MoTheGreat

If Y&R were to lose to much you would see a behind the scenes shake-up. It won't be "Y&R is losing viewers lets cancel GL because that is probably the reason people aren't watching Y&R"

I could see them cutting down to a half-hour but the once a week thing wouldn't work for many reasons because these networks would never be able to decide what day and they would move it making it impossible for anyone to watch or care.

You make some really interesting points. I just can't imagine how a once-a-week format is ever going to be profitable for soaps--

I think Soapnet is testing the waters with GH: Nightshift right now... and you can bet the other networks/soaps are watching this like hawks. I also think this might have been Disney's plan for ABC all along... change the style of the soaps, do a shorter, cheaper, weekly cable show. Weekly might not be cheaper but it would depend how they taped. If they can spend less time paying all the behind the scenes folks (make up, camera, other tech) due to shortened hours it has to save lots. But yes, the downside is losing the faithful daily viewer. They might consider that a lost cause anyway, though.

These wonderful actors who have been on shows for years and years have contracts that must be honored.

The contracts bind the actor, not so much the show. They can still fire people it's just the actors can't get out without permission. And it's not easy for an actor to find work. There are many excellent actors out of work or working unsteadily. So the networks/parent companies have the power here, no matter what is "right".

Side note- it amazes me with all the excellent out of work actors around, who have training and ability, how soaps sometimes seem to hire underwear models who never read a line... another thing that would improve soaps and probably boost ratings is for them to hire newbies who have some training and ability (certainly some do, but soaps seem to go for style over substance more often than not!)

Regarding Y/R's numbers dropping... the ONLY way I'd want to see Y/R lost the number one spot is if another of the soaps, through good writing and cast use... topped the 4.0 rating. If Y/R loses so much it drops down below B and B or heaven help us, the ABC soaps... yes, it's good bye to all the soaps.. because it will be taken as a sign that soaps in their current format can't survive. Those on the inside don't see what the real problems are so they don't fix what needs to be fixed, and they won't see the real reason for the drops.

Edited July 6, 200718 yr by Reddi

The problem with soaps don't have that much to do with the casts but have to do with tire writers that have no vision but write the same old crap over and over again playing their viewers like fools.

If Y&R go down but the rest of the cbs soaps gain. why would they get rid of the other soaps? They need to look what Y&R is doing wrong.

Soaps need to stop recycling old tire writers & get first blood. Writers with visions.

So I don't have to watch what I'm saying. I hope Y&R lose it's #1 spot. they haven't been #1 for a long time. & LML just proves my point.

I agree that the problem with soaps right now is the crappy dreadful writing not the cast. Most soaps have stellar casts that give great performances regardless of the garbage material they are given to work with. However in my view Y&R is still way better in all areas than most other soaps. In regards to dreadful writing, no soap is worst(with the possible exception of Passions) than GH led by Guza the king of plot point drivel. Now that is a badly written soap that needs a new headwriter and writing team ASAP. I think soaps heading to cable is going to be the wave of the future. They can no longer demand and get increased advertising dollars with the viewing audience corroding and decreasing yearly.

I don't care if soaps are cut down to 1/2 hour if they still got the same sorry ass writers their still going to lose viewers. Things are changing in the world & these recycle writers aren't writing anything that reflects the changes.

I agree with you there, Mo. It would be fantastic if soaps more accurately reflected what's going on in the world...there's a war going on...terrorism is a huge piece of all of our lives...civil rights are getting trampled on by a power-mad administration...poor people suffer tremendously while the rich get richer...but I'm not sure if these topics are going to attract viewers--don't people tune into soaps to escape all this? Or has that changed, too? I think this is a fundamental question EPs and HWs and network execs grapple with (or think about for a few minutes and then dismiss)...

I agree with you there, Mo. It would be fantastic if soaps more accurately reflected what's going on in the world...there's a war going on...terrorism is a huge piece of all of our lives...civil rights are getting trampled on by a power-mad administration...poor people suffer tremendously while the rich get richer...but I'm not sure if these topics are going to attract viewers--don't people tune into soaps to escape all this? Or has that changed, too? I think this is a fundamental question EPs and HWs and network execs grapple with (or think about for a few minutes and then dismiss)...

But back in the days they use to write storylines about these things & that's when it was exciting to watch. But it seems all they can write about is some kind of disease, people that go crazy after they been turn down, death, people with drinking problems, Baby being premature, Black people in their own little storyline or not being seen. not enough of other nationalities. some drama can come for interracial dating. I just feel like I'm to advance for soaps.

Final Standings

1.(1) Y&R 4.1 (+.1)

2.(2) B&B 2.8 (SAME) <--- ties low rating

3.(3) GH 2.5 (SAME)

4.(4) OLTL 2.3 (-.1) <--- ties low rating

5.(6) DOOL 2.2 (+.1)

5.(5) AMC 2.2 (-.1) <--- new low rating

6.(6) ATWT 2.1 (SAME)

8.(8) GL 1.9 (SAME)

9.(9) PSNS 1.5 (+.1)

ABC

ABC

ALL MY CHILDREN

MONDAY 2.4

TUESDAY 2.1

WEDNESDAY 2.3

THURSDAY 2.2

FRIDAY 2.1

GENERAL HOSPITAL

MONDAY 2.4

TUESDAY 2.6

WEDNESDAY 2.6

THURSDAY 2.5

FRIDAY 2.5

ONE LIFE TO LIVE

MONDAY 2.3

TUESDAY 2.3

WEDNESDAY 2.4

THURSDAY 2.2

FRIDAY 2.3

CBS

AS THE WORLD TURNS

MONDAY 2.3

TUESDAY 2.2

WEDNESDAY 2.1

THURSDAY 2.1

FRIDAY 2.1

BOLD AND BEAUTIFUL

MONDAY 2.9

TUESDAY 2.9

WEDNESDAY 2.5

THURSDAY 2.8

FRIDAY 2.7

GUIDING LIGHT

MONDAY 1.9

TUESDAY 1.9

WEDNESDAY 1.9

THURSDAY 1.9

FRIDAY 2.0

YOUNG AND THE RESTLESS

MONDAY 4.2

TUESDAY 4.1

WEDNESDAY 3.8

THURSDAY 4.2

FRIDAY 3.9

NBC

DAYS OF OUR LIVES

MONDAY 2.3

TUESDAY 2.3

WEDNESDAY 2.2

THURSDAY 2.2

FRIDAY 2.0

PASSIONS

MONDAY 1.5

TUESDAY 1.4

WEDNESDAY 1.6

THURSDAY 1.5

FRIDAY 1.3

Edited July 6, 200718 yr by Angela