AMC: Wednesday

[Ms Deeve]

Well said! I completely agree. Bianca is a PERSON first. Her orientation is lesbian. That means that she is attracted to and feels passion for women. Now... a tg IS the gender they feel they are, it's just body parts that aren't right. So, Zoe is a woman with a birth defect that the docs can fix. In the meantime, she's a she, and it is the PERSON of Zoe that Bianca loves. People love imperfect people all the time. That doesn't change who they are, and it doesn't change the fact that Bianca was attracted to a WOMAN, keeping her orientation right where it has been, a lesbian.

[Q Steph]

IA about Maggie. I never really believed she was a lesbian. Perhaps bisexual, but definately a tease.

As for Bianca, it should be about the person first and I hate her ass. Every time her character retuns, she is trashed even further. If it's not the ednless Babe propping, moralizing and finger pointing, it's this romance with Zoe.

Also, if AMC's intent were to tell a transgender tale, they lost me at the early stages. Even before Bianca knew Zarf was Zoe, she was attracted to him. She acted on those feelings and kissed him. That ignified to me that Bianca is bisexual. Then, Ms. Know it all, acted shock that transgendered people actually exist, accusing Zarf/Zoe of being a liar. Now she's acting like a schoolgirl with a crush, declaring that it was love at first. So, she was drawn to a man, but acted offended when it was suggested by Erica. Unless she has ESP or a psychic ability, Bianca was drawn to a man at first.

[dragonflies]

I have to disagree. They're now making Binks out to be bisexual. If she in anyway lusts after a person who is male, even if he's a transgender, that makes her not a lesbian anymore.

Others are saying the same thing. Bianca in no way should even lust after any male form.

Sure maybe Zoe is a woman inside, which is perfectly fine. But until the transistion is done. ZOE IS STILL A MAN

[All My Shadows]

But could you honestly blame her? They made a hot couple for the little while that they were together.

IMO, it would have been a lot easier for people who feel the same as you do if they had kept Bianca and Zoe on the show until the end of the year, or however long it took for Zoe to go through the entire transition process. It is sooooooo in Bianca's character to stay with this person that she loves as she makes these changes in her life, and I think it would have made it much easier for people to see them together.

Anyway, I thought today was another great episode. The Krystal/Colby scenes were again something to be absolutely proud of. The final scene of Adam and Tad in the darkness...now that was some tense [!@#$%^&*] and I can't wait to see what happens tomorrow.

[alwaysAMC]

Cheap and Ms Deeve - WORD to your posts.

I respect your post rsmith2k2, but one thing I just can't agree on is this 'common experience' thing. The coming out process might be a similar/common experience, but not all lesbians like/enjoy/love the same things. Lesbians and gay men do not have the same tastes, same feelings, same experiences, or same desires.

I understand your desire to see our beloved Bianca just be happy in love with a biological female; with a full on relationship that is given an extended time on AMC. But you can't miff the idea of a lesbian falling in love with a pre-op transgender who is inside a woman.

Just one of those cases where we have to agree to disagree

[JER Soaps Fan]

Well, gays and lesbians can't have it both ways. First, they say they aren't "gay" or "lesbian," per se, and they just fall in love with the person inside; then they say they are "gay" or "lesbian," and that sexuality, for everyone, is complicated and fluid; and then, for this storyline, on the other hand, for Bianca and Zoe, that it isn't realistic -- just because Zoe is biologically male. I think that's too much of a contradiction. It's convenient logic.

[dragonflies]

Any way you slice it, Zoe is a man, with all the man parts and stuff that come along with it.

Binks is now lusting after a MAN

AMC Is having their cake and eating it too

[Kylie]

Look it's simple: Zoe has a penis. Biologically Bianca is in love with a man. When Barf do it, it's biologically a man making love to woman. It's simple. I'm not washing over the transgender aspect. Zarf is Zoe, in his mind, in his heart, in his soul. And more power to her. But at the end of the day, Zoe hasn't changed her biology. And Bianca is STILL attracted to her.

AMC want to give the lesbian a love. Aren't they wonderful? But they want to eat their cake too. And they are. Bianca is bisexual as far as I'm concerned.

[dragonflies]

Kylie you rock, I completely agree

[JER Soaps Fan]

Zoe will have her surgery eventually. Who is to say that Bianca and Zoe WON'T have sex until after every male trace of Zarf is GONE?!

Bianca loves Zoe, a woman.

They haven't had sex.

Binks isn't bisexual, in my opinion.

And once again, gays and lesbians can't have it both ways. Either you fall in love with the person and inside and can cast out your labels -- or not. And endure stereotypes and people saying, if by chance, you fall for someone of the opposite sex (and it happens), that you don't deserve it. Like they know you better than you do!

[Kylie]

What are you talking about labels? I don't know any gay men or lesbians who who fall in love basd on only what's inside a person. If that were true, then why couldn't they fall in love with a man? It's the same for heterosexuals, inside is only part of what matters, but attraction is part of it. Zoe is inside a woman. Great. Love it. Love her. But what Bianca is attracted too on the outside, is male. Fact is, if you're lesbian you're attracted to women. If you're gay, you're attarcted to men. If you're straight, you're attracted to the opposite sex. I don't go looking to be with a woman because no matter how much I love them, I don't have any attraction to them. It's that same way with Bianca.

If she were lesbian, she'd be attracted to woman, inside and out. But she's not. She's attracted to a biological male. She's bisexual.

I get what AMC was going for. I do. But they didn't even come close to acheiving it, IMO. Which is not a surprise with MMT.

[dragonflies]

WORD!

[JER Soaps Fan]

What I meant, Kylie, is that THAT is what a lot of gay and lesbian people say, as a rationale for their lifestyle for Bible thumpers. "We don't choose who we love," "I don't see them as a man or a woman, just a soul," blah blah blah.

That's what I mean.

and I disagree that Binks is straight or bi now. She DID fall in love with a woman-looking man. She hasn't seen Zoe naked. She sees a female figure. I don't see how it's so hard to bleieve that she could fall in love with Zoe -- a woman.

They haven't gone swimming yet...

[Kylie]

I could believe myself to be a man. And that doesn't mean I'm not. If I believed it, if I felt it. If I knew in my soul it wast true. But if were to be checked into the hosptial because I was sick, they would treat me as a woman, not a man. Because biologically that is what i would be. A soul is a soul. We love who we love. I believe that. Being gay is no more a choice then being straight is. You just are. Attraction is part of love, no matter where you fall. I'm attracted to men, and only men. I have friends who I love and are women, but I have no attraction to them. None. But that doesn't mean I don't love them. I just don't feel sexually attracted to them. Bianca can love and maybe I cane even buy be in love with Zoe. But she's attracted to her too. And her is biologically male. She's bisexual. She's attracted to a man.

[Steve]

As a gay man, I find Zoe/Bianca very insulting.

It would be different if McTavish & Frons had given Bianca a frontburner lesbian romance during their reign, but they took over AMC at a time when Bianca had a girlfriend, Lena, and they desexualized the character completely. Bianca did not turn to Lena for comfort after her rape and by the time Lena's portrayer left, Bianca was caught up in Michael's murder and then the babyswitch. Maggie & Bianca's reunion coincided with both of them leaving the show.

When Bianca returned, AMC had a chance to tell a real lesbian storyline here. Instead, Zarf showed up spouting horrible lines about auras, and showing no compassion to the Fusion women after their friends' deaths, and declaring Bianca his soulmate. This storyline has been poorly developed from day one because Zarf/Zoe was not a well-developed character. The story could have been salvaged if we had watched Zarf transition completely to Zoe through surgery and if Bianca had slowly fallen in love. Instead, to me, it seems like she's still on the rebound from Maggie. As for Zarf/Zoe falling for Bianca from day one, that was sadly just on his/her part and not Bianca's, so for her to reciprocate those feelings now strikes me as false.

Overall, this whole plot comes across, imo, as Frons & McTavish's way of making Bianca bisexual by putting her with a man who has been desexualized as much as she has.