beebs

Something just occurred to me recently during all this Marlena, Kayla, and Kate "dying" nonsense on DAYS that, really BFTD has absolutely run amok in the past few years, particuarly at DAYS, where literally no death sticks thanks to Rolf's zombie shot. So, I went on here to find a thread about it, but was surprised to not see anything specific (at least in recent years, so apologies if I'm rehashing something I've forgotten about!)

I put to you: what were some of the best, and worst back from the dead stories on soaps for you?

Additionally, if anyone has any records of what some of the earliest known stories of a previously-established character coming back from the dead, I'd love to know more. I assume this was more common on radio, where recasts could be more easily camouflaged from the audience sans visual. It just struck me that, particularly in the 60s and 70s, soaps seemed loath to have characters return from the dead, even when that death happened off-screen. It's largely from the 80s onward, what with stars seeking their fortune in prime time, and coming back to daytime if that attempt goes belly up.

5 hours ago, SFK said:

Thanks for sharing @DRW50 , love Maria’s hat. She fascinates me, I’d love to go back and watch her full journey.

What I've seen so far from the '86 episodes that have gone up on YouTube, she's fascinating character that I feel was wasted, especially since she starts off as such a loving, protective mother and wife. She really could have been a great long-term antagonist to Viki, Clint, and Tina, but instead they had her go full-on unhinged, and, ultimately, die.

Thanks again for sharing @DRW50. I guess Tina had already alienated Cord by this point. It's a wonder they ever ended up together.

On 11/2/2022 at 11:46 PM, Franko said:

I'd love to know more about the ownership of WVLE. From what I recall of the 1988 and onward episodes, Max had a sizable amount of stock/ownership (having bought it from Dorian?), but when he was on his way out, Asa made a play for that. Bo owned the station at the end of 1988, but by fall 1989, it was Asa's.

From what I'm watching in the 1986 episodes, Viki isn't involed in the TV station at all, it's just Dorian, but I couldn't tell you about ownership, just that Dorian's show is there.

Don't know if anyone's been watching the 1986 episodes that have been posted to YT recently, but my new job gives me quite a bit of time to watch. Enjoyed the Vienna story (though was baffled as to why everyone just stood around and let Dirk run out of the train station to the train without at least some degree of a fight). Was a good exit story for David and Jenny.

Cord's introduction has been interesting, and I like the conflict they've given Al and Maria so far, though knowing Maria ends up going wildly off the rails down the road is disappointing, as she really could have proven to be a good long-term character, imo.

Love Dorian trying to nab herself a sexy PI by pretending Paul Kendall's threatening her again, only to have someone actually start threatening her shortly after her plan blows up in her face.

The day to day writing seems very sharp compared to the cringey dialogue I've seen in episodes just a few years later, though I think the edits are missing some scenes because it feels like some beats are skipped here and there. It seems a very transitional time for OLTL, as we watch the old guard from the 70s and 80s leave, and the mainstays of the 80s and 90s emerge. Would love to hear what y'all think, though I know much has probably been said already (watching "live" is always a different experience).

20 minutes ago, carolineg said:

I love your idea, but at the same time we are probably hoping Jessica/Josh are going to be much more exciting than they actually were lol.

I do see the possibilities of Jessica/Kristen working together-maybe Jessica's DID emerges and she doesn't realize she's even dealing with Kristen.  I think recast Josh/Marlena would be a decent idea if only because Hope had a love interest and story while Marlena was just there kinda of waiting for Drake/John to come back to the show.  I can't even remember why Drake/John was gone, but it was for a long time and I feel like John/Marlena got divorced via email or some crazy crap like that lol.

I agree about Tomlin overall though.  I didn't mind his run. I always felt Dena was much more personally vindictive with characters she didn't like though.  Ron has favorites, but I don't think he obviously actively hates characters.  I think Dena might be in theory a better writer even though I think Ron has better ideas.  He just can't complete them properly.  It's sort of ranking everyone on various degrees of sucking tbh lol.

I like @AbcNbc247 idea about Jessica/Josh reappearing on an all Horton Beyond Salem too.

I confess, I only came up with the Josh/Hope idea because I saw Robert Parucha present an award with Kristian Alfonso on YouTube and went "these two would be HOT together". So, maybe your idea would be better. But yes, judging by what I read in those SOD recaps, Jessica was unendingly frustrating, so who knows what good she'd be back on the canvas. Though, that era of DAYS also had brilliant scriptwriters, so they really could've fleshed the character out in a way that could have made her really pop. Who knows?

@MichaelGL @slick jones @victoria foxton @Joseph @carolineg thanks for the warm welcomes back! Really hoping things stay chill around here, cos I'd love to stick around!

I was thinking about the Josh/Marlena connection, and that would be really cool as well, maybe have Jessica collude with Kristen to get Josh and Marlena apart, only for Jessica to not realize how far Kristen is willing to go, and end up in over her head.

Either way, there was definitely a place for Jessica on the canvas up until a few years ago. Much as Tomlin's run had issues, it kept me entertained, and formed so much of the basis for what came after. I just don't want any more big returns under Ron's watch, because he inevitably ruins every character, and their history. He's so destructive in a way even Dena never was.

3 hours ago, slick jones said:

OMG--- @beebs is that really you. Long time no see here.  I wonder why. No matter.

 

Yeah, well, we'll see how long THAT lasts.

Rick being out for revenge against Gabi would be a good story, him gaslighting her as Nick's "ghost" or something. I just really would have liked to see the "Roger v. Ed" dynamic play out with Nick and Will, cos it was too good, and they wasted it.

The time to bring her back was in 2013 when Nick was unravelling. I really wish they'd spun Nick's shooting into a longer term whodunnit, and NOT killed him off in the process (ultimately have Gabi still be the shooter, but set Will, Sonny, Sami, and others as viable suspects). Having Jessica back around this time to help with Nick's recovery and have her and Hope mix it up during the investigation would have helped re-establish her. Have her at odds with Will and Sonny, with Jessica particularly hostile toward Will as he's not only the b*stard of a b*stard, but also gay? It would help explain Nick's homophobia a little better than prison rape, imo.

Plus, I'd have a recast Josh Fallon come on, still married to Jessica, but with them on the outs thanks to her prissy, uptight, neurotic nature that's manifested itself in smothering Nick, partly why Nick left for Salem - to get away from his mother. I'd have someone like Robert Parucha come on as Josh, and have him eventually start an affair with Hope after Jessica's antics push Joshua far enough away (let's face it, it was never really gonna work with Aiden).

Buuuut that time is long past.

1 hour ago, JAS0N47 said:

What about the longer length of the episodes in regards to Canada. Will Canada have to edit scenes to still be able to air the same amount of commercials as it does now?

That I'm not sure about, tbh. I think we have a bit more leeway as it is, as Nielsen calculates ratings differently up here vs. the US, so it attaches people meters to people instead of in the home, thus viewings outside the home have been included for about a decade now, unsure what changes have happened since then, so the ratings may be less egregious here vs. the US, thus higher ad rates. But don't quote me on that. I'll have a look.

21 hours ago, Jdee43 said:

This show is done.

The way this is being handled, with no fanfare, almost casually, like it's no big deal, tells you all you need to know.

If they wanted this to succeed, they would have at least given the production a head's up so that they could have adjusted the material. Instead it seems like the production found out the same time everyone else did, and as a result, any adjustment is going to happen 6 months from now. That's not going to work. 

 

 

Yeah that was my takeaway as well. If NBC was truly dedicated to making this succeed, they would have burned thru the NBC episodes and given the show time to prepare a splashy premiere for Peacock to hype people up for the big debut, similar to the fanfare that Beyond Salem has been given.

Instead we get "LOL guess what in a few weeks you're off TV and sometime next year you get extra cussing and an extra five minutes!"

I think it's the unceremonious way they're doing it that gives me pause about the show's future, and I can safely say most detractors feel the same. Corday's oblivious interview really does nothing to address those concerns.

2 hours ago, Dylan said:

a more risque days is fine and all. But, It's still brodcast in Canada. Will global allow that?

Canadian TV is a fair bit less puritanical than the US. The CBC has long maintained a far more liberal attitude towards language and nudity compared to any American channel, and as far as I know, that extends to the other networks to varying degrees as well.

Absolutely beautiful tribute, thank you @slick jones for sharing.

On 8/13/2022 at 5:16 AM, DRW50 said:

https://archive.org/details/one-life-to-live-august-9-1991

That really weird period between Rauch leaving and Gottlieb starting where everything's just...off. Nice to see Robyn Griggs in action in this episode (RIP, taken from us way too young), she's one of the few bright spots in an otherwise trainwreck of an episode. They really thought an asthma story for the teens was gonna bring in the viewers? And the dialogue and direction are generally cringeworthy. Whoever was playing Kevin during this period is just...embarrassing. Erika Slezak had to do a whole lot of heavy lifting in this episode, she made some awkward scenes cohesive.

At one point I see Cassie try to recall a joke Joey told, and there is a moment when she asks Megan if she remembers, there's this...weird weight to Megan insisting she didn't remember that sort of...implies she was hiding something, but...I get the sense that it was just a really bad directorial choice and that it didn't mean anything. Can anyone confirm this?

4 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

re Pat Falken Smith.

She was writing Days of Our Lives with Bill Bell at this point so how was she free to headwrite Where The Heart Is?

 

Far as I was aware, she left DAYS in 1971 to headwrite WTHI, and came back to DAYS in 1972. Granted, there were people writing two shows at once at that time, but I'd expect since DAYS and WTHI were on competing networks and not owned by the same company, it wouldn't be a situation like Henry Slesar writing both Somerset and EON simultaneously.

There are clips lurking about from this episode, actually. Particularly the scene between Mary and Chris discussing his reluctance to talk about his time in Vietnam. This was among Ann Marcus' last, as you can see her steamrolling ahead with her story she wanted to tell about Chris having a partner and child in Vietnam (presumably to come interrupt his wedding to Mary). Corday and/or NBC flatly refused to allow Marcus to tell the story, and fired her shortly after this. Ultimately, she brought the story with her to Love of Life shortly afterward.

DAYS also began a DID story for Trish Clayton in 1977 under Pat Falken Smith. It started when she killed her stepfather after he tried to sexually assault her. Ann Marcus kiboshed the story a few weeks into her tenure.

Obviously DAYS would re-use this device multiple times thereafter (Kim and Abby), though I would have loved to see what PFS had in store. I suspect Ann Marcus felt it was too soon after Serena Farraday to do that story, plus with AW doing one with Sharlene, it was probably too much at once.

GL also cut a DID story short under Marland. Carrie Marler (Jane Elliot), but then Allen M. Potter fired Jane Elliot, and Marland quit in protest. Curious to know why she was sacked.

This sounds like a must-read, thanks @slick jonesfor the tag!

Did anyone explain what happened to him when Robert came back a few years later? Seems silly to bring Robert back and not age up Dougie (and hopefully rename him) to the teen set at the same time. But, then again, the last thing DAYS seemed to want in the mid-80s was new Hortons, so...

1 hour ago, Darn said:

The tax scene feels like all the business talk on present day Y&R.

The ridiculous part is that this was all to eventually reveal that Dougie was Doug's biological son, but instead the promo discusses...taxes? Like...if I was to choose between Karen Wolek on OLTL (I THINK OLTL was still DAYS' timeslot competitor at the time) and this...it's an easy choice.

Watching the end credits of the 1966 episode just caught my eye: Elizabeth Harrower had what I can only assume was a small role on the show as an actress two years before her daughter, and 13 before she'd take over as head writer.

32 minutes ago, victoria foxton said:

He probably smells like expired ham.

TBF maybe not in 1984 

1 hour ago, DRW50 said:

Sorry if this was already posted. Some channel has been uploading various material from 1992, with commercials. These never stay up long:

 

Great find! Looks like the episode is mislabeled (this and the AW episode are actually April 14, 1993). But GREAT quality!

3 minutes ago, will81 said:

My feeling was Stefano really hated John and wanted to torture him to no end. My idea would be that John was an MK Ultra victim, considering that is a real cover up that many know about and how popular conspiracy theories are it would fit well in today's show and still sort of honour the history. They should have pulled it back to that and had Stefano have links to dirty government officials. The story is that John was supposed to infiltrate the police or some other agency and go rogue. Hence why they brainwashed him to be Roman. 

I guess Stefano in retrospect kidnapped Marlena because he was obssessed with her. There was never more said about it. 

I do think successive writing regimes were probably building to something with John, but the constant writer change built to nothing. It is hard to have a story with so many twists and turns that get scrapped and retconned. I can't keep track of his back story.

Okay, I've had a few drinks and I'm tired, but...

A random aside, but considering how we were talking about them bungling Stefano's death storyline, I had to share this. I know some of y'all will definitely hate it, but...enh, I was young when I started writing this. I had planned to write for my DAYS fanfic (without going too deep into the weeds), that Kristen turns up pregnant, back in 2013-14 after she drugged and raped Eric. After a subsequent WTD involving Brady and Eric, the truth is revealed when Stefano, realizing Kristen is unhinged and her fixation on the baby is becoming obsessive and dangerous to the child, reveals that the baby is actually neither man's child, but actually Abby and EJ's baby from their tryst on Smith Island (requiring Abby leave town for a few months to "work for DiMera").

Kristen snaps, and, feeling betrayed begins to withhold Stefano's insulin, eventually causing him to go into diabetic shock, and dies. Kristen being the monster that Stefano created, being the one to kill him feels incredibly appropriate. After she's revealed as the killer, she's put into Bayview. Marlena is told of a "new experimental treatment" being developed by a new doctor there...turns out it's Rolf, using a pseudonym. He's used MK Ultra to "cure her psychotic depression". of course, knowing how MK Ultra works, it wipes Kristen's memory. When Marlena tours the facility to see what this new doctor's treatment involves, she realizes something funny is going on. After some digging, she realizes what's happening and blows the whistle on Rolf's experiments, ultimately leading to Bayview shutting down.

In the aftermath of this, Kristen returns to Salem, and John, realizing that the old "evil" Kristen is gone, takes pity on her, and insists that she stay with him and Marlena at the micropenthouse. Brady, of course, backs John up on this, but Marlena is extremely reluctant, and can't see past the things Kristen's done, even though Kristen doesn't remember and is back to being "sweet, innocent" Kristen again. The tensions between them bleed into Marlena's relationship with John, of course, as well as with Brady.

I'm probably explaining this horribly, but it just kickstarted my memory about that seed of an idea I had. One day I'll write it all out.

43 minutes ago, will81 said:

My feeling was Stefano really hated John and wanted to torture him to no end. My idea would be that John was an MK Ultra victim, considering that is a real cover up that many know about and how popular conspiracy theories are it would fit well in today's show and still sort of honour the history. They should have pulled it back to that and had Stefano have links to dirty government officials. The story is that John was supposed to infiltrate the police or some other agency and go rogue. Hence why they brainwashed him to be Roman. 

I guess Stefano in retrospect kidnapped Marlena because he was obssessed with her. There was never more said about it. 

I do think successive writing regimes were probably building to something with John, but the constant writer change built to nothing. It is hard to have a story with so many twists and turns that get scrapped and retconned. I can't keep track of his back story.

That really is a big part of the problem, as well. I know that, ultimately, Gene Palumbo had wanted to tie John to the Alamains, as they were the big bads of the time, and they had just added Vivian to the cast to try to really solidify their place on the show, but considering he was out so quickly, and there was such a turnover in 1991-93 in terms of writers, nothing really could gel properly. In fact, I think Palumbo was brought back for a few weeks during Sheri Anderson's return in mid-1992 to wrap up some of his stories, as well?

Oddly enough, his run wasn't THAT unpopular. He did manage to get the show back up into the Top 5 by the end of his run for a number of weeks, but, in retrospect, it was pretty damn messy, and inconsistent.

6 minutes ago, carolineg said:

I mean, did anyone ever think they were going to kill off John, Marlena, Bo, Hope and Carrie? Lol.  People may have been hoping for Rafe to die but we would never be so lucky.  I kind of liked Carrie/Rafe so I am going to hide underneath a makeshift bomb wall in shame for now lol.  It's like the only person I ever thought Rafe had chemistry with.

I still say Noah's secretly Rafe's, but then that would tie his smug ass to the canvas forever, and I just don't have the spoons for that.

2 minutes ago, Khan said:

Exactly.  And even if they had, we all had been at that rodeo enough times to know that TPTB would have just resurrected them later.  "It's DAYS -- Just Go With It!".

"Dr. Rolf somehow snuck into the underground passage and injected Rafe through the trap door in his big toe!" they discover years later as Rafe stands arm-in-arm with an also-not-dead Daniel Jonas. They are immediately thrown a ceremonial dinner and given keys to the city.

7 minutes ago, carolineg said:

Bo/Hope were there too.  I remember it being pretty funny because they all were resigned to dying and not actively trying to help themselves.  Like all the couples were making out and saying goodbye to one another instead of trying to do something about the situation.  Didn't they pretend they were dead for a minute as well?

Apparently they were "hiding behind a makeshift bomb wall" that Shane had suggested via walky-talky, to try to protect them from the blast, so they were hiding behind the crappy IKEA couches, presumably, while Rafe professed his undying love to Carrie while tripping over rugs.

1 minute ago, Khan said:

And they never will.

If they survive Ken Corday's death, they MIGHT stand a chance, particularly if they move exclusively to Peacock (it's not the MOST unreasonable thing to surmise, Corday is 71), but...I won't hold my breath.

3 minutes ago, Vee said:

What??

I distinctly remember this. I remember Stefano had locked Marlena, John, Rafe, Sami, Austin, Carrie...I'm NOT sure who else, in a cabin somewhere, and rigged the doors and windows, so that if they opened them to try to leave, the cabin would blow up. They spent the whole time panicking that they were all about to die, then about 10 seconds before the timer went off, Rafe tripped over the throw rug, and revealed a trap door, which all of them somehow managed to escape through before the bomb went off. It was...probably one of the most embarrassing things I've seen on this show, and that's saying something.

ETA: Okay I'm not hallucinating. This actually happened.

https://www.soapcentral.com/days-of-our-lives/recaps/2012/120507.php