Contessa Donatella

I keep thinking about PAPER DOLLS, which I loved, and how she & Terry Farrell (spelling?) were so young, the two ingenues. And, then, I think why is Nicolette a part of the Divas Xmas group?

What Bee & I are referring to is that if you get behind, then the closing credits begin but very quickly stop & it moves on to the next day. Have you ever been behind to experience what we're talking about? I assure you that it is what happens if you watch from a behind point of view. Doesn't happen if one is watching timely. Does it make more sense to you now? Anyway, you can test it if you want to. Just pick any day last week, as long as the next day has played, and run it to the end & watch. You'll see.

I think it gives us insight into how these execs minds worked at that time, in that place. We now know from the Beverlee McKinsey Canadian "City Lights" interview that TPTB decided that they wanted to spin-off the character of Iris to a new soap. They did not even discuss this with McKinsey until they were very very very far along in development. That seems hard to believe but that was the way it happened. They inadvertently gave her much more negotiating power than she would have had in usual negotiations. By the time they brought her into the loop they HAD to have her do this thing. And, in the meantime they had also conceived of trying to take advantage of the popularity of DALLAS. And that in a nutshell is how TEXAS came to be. AW would have been better off with Iris at home there. Vivien, too. McKinsey would have been better off with Iris still on AW. The brand new writers for TEXAS were hired & had nothing to do so they put them to work writing for AW for awhile. However, it does not seem that very much was learned about who Iris was & what she was like.

This storyline was mentioned in discussion recently. I had Maureen's book out looking up something else so I thought I'd do a verbatim account from it while I was there. The Salem Strangler Storyline p.97 Marlena took a job on a nighttime radio show and immersed herself in her work. One night she got a phone call from a man who said he was on the verge of murder and begged her to stop him! Marlena tried to keep him on the phone and stop the killing, but her efforts proved fruitless. p.99 Meanwhile, Marlena was tormented by strange phone calls and death threats. Detective Roman Brady was assigned to protect her and moved into her house, vowing to sleep in a sleeping bag on her living room floor until the strangler was caught. Although initially antagonistic toward one another, Marlena and Roman realized their growing attraction. But their relationship was complicated by the so-called Salem Strangler who was on a murderous rampage. Eugene Bradford, a former patient of Marlena's, was the prime suspect. Fearing the strangler might try to kill her, Marlena sent for Johnny, for his own protection, to live with her parents in Colorado. Roman decided Marlena should leave town as well, for her protection. However, the Salem Strangler, revealed to be Jake Kositcheck, thought he saw Marlena in her home and made his move. He strangled "Marlena" and ran away. Roman returned to find her limp body and cried in anguish that he would find Jake. Much to his astonishment, it turned out that it was not Marlena who was strangled, but her twin sister, Samantha! Jake attempted to kill Renee but was unsuccessful. However, Renee saw his face and could identify him. Shocked by the revelation, Renee blocked tyhe memory from her mind. This bought Jake the time he needed. This time he found Marlena alone in the carriage house. He had the scarf wrapped around her neck when Roman burst in, saved Marlena and killed Jake. Chris was distraught that he was unable to save his brother. Russell, M. (1995). Days of Our Lives: A Complete History of the Long-Running Soap Opera. McFarland & Company, Inc. Maureen, a soap fan & an historian, posted on rec.arts.tv.soaps

I know that Sara Bibel was fired at the same time but she was not a breakdown writer. Just curious. What was her job title, if you know?

And, SISTERS, is NBC, primetime & a soap or I'll eat my hat. Also I go along with your three.

It's my age. There were always many Donnas because of a hit song. But plenty of Lindas & Susans & Joannes & a Wanda. No Jordans. No Margos. Cheryls. Lees & Leighs. Margarets. Maybe Jordan is a family name?

Robin is an aberration. Always, in every way. And it was not very much a good girl act to have unprotected sex with a hard-living street kid who used drugs.

Hmm Got an error 404 not found. Could there be something little amiss in the link? https://soaps.sheknows.com/the-young-and-the-restless/news/699469/jordan-claire-reveal-truth/ This seems to be there.

I'm not rising to debate the dilemma of ingenues in general, just to speak specifically to the Love/Hudson twins. And, as soon as Anne Heche came on as Vicky first, which I do not think was some anti-ingenue plot, but Marley was immediately pushed back because Vicky, yes, bad girl was 1. more interesting to everyone and 2. the person that women that age identified with to the nth degree! Another good girl who was also immediately pushed back was Lisa. Lisa had no chance from the first moment Anne Heche became Victoria! I think part of it was the writing & bad boys had been more interesting already for many years so here came bad girls chance but I think another part of it was Anne! She was so talented, so gifted, and so raw with such huge charisma & chemistry with everyone & everything.

And the love of her life, Holden, slept with her twin Rose & did not know it was Rose & not his Lily. Yeah, right, that trope.

I just listened to Colleen Zenk on podcast with Linda Dano. They taped it 11-16. She said the day before had been a 14 hr day, 40 pages for her & it would air on 12-26. So, production note 11-15 taped will air on 12-26. She said they do 5 shows in 4 days. If anyone here keeps up with such stuff for Y&R, there you go. She also sounded like it was a big day for her story which she described as steamrolling right through the show beginning next week. Anyway, I wrote up the whole podcast & posted it in the 'ATWT goes to Y&R' thread. I just wanted to put this little bit here before I forget! Overall she could NOT have said more good things if she'd been paid by the word.

Honestly I have only 2 criticisms of Peacock. 1. They should promote the show more. 2. Let us see the credits no matter what day it is when we're watching!! 🤔😲😮😧🙃

Yes, she says she is first on 11-17 and she says it is "tomorrow".

I went to get the link for a podcast that Linda Dano had previously done with Colleen & found a brand new one where she's talking about the new character at Y&R. If you go, there's also an earlier one where Colleen talked among other things about her cancer. Have fun! Oh, and of course, it's on all platforms. If you prefer something other than Spotify, you won't have any trouble finding it. Hope I'm not duplicating. Here is a write-up of the new podcast: In With Linda Dano podcast, 11-20, Colleen Zenk returns to Daytime. She had to sign an NDA (Non-Disclosure agreement). When she called Maura West she told her she was out visiting her daughter Georgia & Maura said what a long time for a visit! Mostly she hasn't called people because she couldn't explain why she was in LA and also because she has not had a lot of free time. She found a wonderful tiny French restaurant she loves & has probably been there 25 times! Week before last Leo DiCaprio was there with a party & last week Sir Patrick Stuart was with a group. Josh Griffith called her in August & said, "I have something for you. Are you interested?" She said, "I'll be on the next plane!" She talked about her name being on nothing, etc. & the lengths they've gone to, to keep the secret. She was very nervous. Everyone has treated her so well & made her feel so welcome. There are 3 P&G/NY people there. There's a director who was at AW & then at ATWT so we both know him. She was very concerned about her looks since no one has seen her in 13 years & she's 70 & has had nothing done to her face & she looks real. But everyone here looks real, too. She's working with the Newmans who she calls the A-Team. Says lovely things about both MTS and Eric Braeden who she calls "lush". She named off Josh & Amelia, too. Yesterday they taped the 12-26 show & everyone just has to watch that day! It was a 14 hour day. She had 40 pages of dialog. This character is a huge workload & she is both exhausted & so delighted! They shoot 5 shows in 4 days. They like to have fun & there's joking around during rehearsal. She is also working with Haley who plays Claire & she is Claire's Great Aunt Jordan. Jordan & Claire are up to no good! Haley worked on Y&R when she was younger & also in the past worked on GH. Now she's 29 & she has twins. She first appears on 11-17 except in Canada, which is the day before that. Then this story is just going to steamroll its way through! That's all there is to it. She's been working now for 5 weeks & finally she can talk about it. Tomorrow she does press. She is hoping that this character catches on with the audience because what she would like would be to be asked to come back. If that happened, she would LOVE that! Linda asks about Boo, her dog. And, Boo is with her & goes to work with her & may be CBS's first dog!

Yep, also have pie. Plus, yesterday lunch we got to have turkey sandwiches. And for supper leftovers of everything! My favorite part.

Many morals to many stories. In asking the question if NBC wanted AW off the air, then why didn't they just cancel it? Answer: Because NBC had a very complicated relationship with P&G. The advertisers have been brought up. P&G was the single biggest advertiser on all US daytime soap operas. So, a soap like AW on NBC. P&G was the owner/producer of the soap and also P&G was the single biggest advertiser. Both are true. The example of CBS canceling CAPITOL was raised. CAPITOL was owned/produced by John Conboy Productions, Inc. No part of the advertising came from him. So, as you can see that is not an apt comparison by any means. It is acknowledged by so many people in so many places that as far back as the late 80s NBC wanted AW off the air & also that they wanted the timeslot & that over the years NBC & P&G were at war with each other over the show, behind the scenes. It is hard to imagine someone dismissing this but that is fandom. Anyone is entitled to their opinion. Brava! Well said! 👏👏👏👏👏👍✌️👌🤏☝️🤙 Not alone.

Totally agree 1000% Well, we know that NBC wanted AW off the air. They wanted the timeslot to use for some other soap. So, logically, it does follow that NBC may have done things to sabotage the show. They would have been things that they could have said were for good reasons, etc. so they could get away with it, etc.

I thought Justine was a good idea & it began to be executed well & then it turned awful. If it had been well written & brought Frankie back, sure, I would have been open to it then. Just as a general rule I prefer that realism based shows not having sci fi or supernatural in them but I can be swayed by good writing & soapy circumstances.

I know I recall seeing John Callahn in drag.

I don't think that this is true. Fandom chatter, based on memories of shows, soaps, sure, but also, scifi, Doctor Who, Outlander, superheroes, comics, more, just more, not infinitely, no, a finite subset of dramatized fiction watchers. They are genres we have other things in common with too, but no we are not alone in the way we discuss, dissect, imagine, etc.

Ellen didn't have nearly as much time to play Vicky. There's just no reason they wouldn't have thought a qualified journeyman actor would grow in where they were. Jensen to me is very different. She never got Marley down. She handled Vicky much better but to me the writers just gave in & wrote Vicky to be this Jensen hybrid - not Vicky but not Jensen sorta Jensen when she's ON, a generic female performer. You don't ever hold it against a story if dumbing down is required to make it work? Or do I misunderstand?

Upheaval paraphrase from HER STORIES p. 212-213. Changes in EPs, HWs & network heads. P&G explored possibilities of new business models and/or mergers, etc. if not downright sale of shows. Included for example two Hollywood production companies or studios. Paramount & Columbia Tri-Star. Columbia Tri-Star was already in place with soap opera content since they owned parts of DOOL & Y&R. Remember the Soap/City website? Between 1995 & early 1998 all 3 NY soaps replaced EPs & HWs at least once. In 1995 P&G did an EP shuffle between AW, ATWT & GL. In 2001, ABC shuffled 3 HWs between & among their 3 primary soaps. Between 2000 and 2003 all 3 networks changed their heads of daytime. The biggest factor in all of this is INSTABILITY. Specifically at AW this amazing amount of chaos happened: AW EP 1995-1996 Jill Farren Phelps AW EP 1996-1998 Charlotte Savitz AW EP 1998-1999 Chris Goutman AW HW Aug 1995-May 1996 Tom King & Craig Carlson AW HW May 1996-Jan 1997 Margaret DePriest AW HW Jan 1997-Mar 1997 Elizabeth Page, Tom King & Craig Carlson AW HW Mar 1997-Apr 1997 Tom King & Craig Carlson AW HW Apr 1997-Dec 1997 Michael Malone AW HW Dec 1997-May 1998 Richard Culliton AW HW May 1998-July 1998 Richard Culliton & Jean Passanante AW HW July 1998 Jean Passanante AW HW Jul 1998-June 1999 Leah Laiman & Jean Passanante Head of NBC Daytime Susan D. Lee presided over DAYS, AW, DOC, SB, Beach, GEN & she was fired April 2000. NBC 2000 Sheraton Kalouria Sr. VP of NBC Daytime Programming came on board. Procter & Gamble, Head of Productions over soaps, Mary Alice Dwyer Dobbin retired Sept. 5, 2000. P&G did away with the position at that time. And AW off the air June 1999; BEACH off the air Dec. 1999; New Soap PSSN on the air July 1999. Whew. 🥱😒🤔😲😮😧🙃 Ellen Wheeler is very down to earth & comes from a theatrical family & I believe she did the audition process with them twice when we could have had a full twin thing going on & they went with Jensen instead. I don't think it would have bothered her to audition. Ego is there but not ahead of work ethic. I am sure it bothered the hell out of her not to get the job!!! I was just having this conversation last night about who is down to earth from GL! There must be something in the air. But you make a great point! Many people would be irked if not having an even stronger negative reaction. Sweet Jesus. My God. That is just like getting punched in the stomach. I wonder whose story idea it was! If we could find that person & have a hit put out on them!! It's no wonder it had The Secret Garden story smushed up in it. They didn't know how to tell the main story & to flesh it out they just used a handy auto-magical fairytale. And, of course, now it's clear why Stark's attraction to Rachel came off as some weird almost unattraction.

Now the costumes for the costume ball & the ball itself, that was the only thing I liked about Lumina. And the costumes didn't look cheap if you ask me & I'm sure that they were not cheap. As far as the F/X go, geeze I hope they weren't expensive! Because they were lame. And, yes, Carolyn the gorilla, blessedly, was only 2 days! Heck, if Lumina had been only 2 days I might find something nice to say about it! What recasting happened?