vetsoapfan

TPTB went too far in the opposite direction when they de-emphasized Lisa. Reducing her almost to the status of a disposable day player under Hogan Sheffer felt like personal contempt for the actress. No one actor should hold a show hostage, but if they are going to remain on the canvas, characters should at least be used effectively. Constrast the history books to the Soaps & Serials novelizations which were neither accurate NOR good. ((Shudder)) As usual, I agree with Reverend Ruthledge: the history books are good, and entertaining reads, but the inaccuracies are distracting. In 1983-ish, a friend's brother bought a non-fiction book dealing with the history of television. It falsely claimed that Coronation Street was "the longest-running television series in the world." I pointed out that CS began in 1960, but currently-running American series like TGL (1937 on radio, 1952 on TV), Search for Tomorrow (1951), The Edge of Night and As the World Turns (1956) were older, and out-ranked Coronation Street in terms of longevity. The brother got curiously angry at my contradiction of his book's "fact," and insisted that the writer could not be wrong because, "It's printed in a book!" You can't reason with folks who are convinced that anything in print must be undisputed gospel. I can't disagree about the harm Deas, in particular, wreaked onto the show. We didn't need more ham in a can. I think many, if not most, viewers consider the early 1990s to be TGL's last, great hurrah. One of the aspects I love best about soaps is the sense of community, with many different characters and storylines interacting and weaving together. Harping on one character to the detriment of many others is a turn-off.

Exactly. And one commenting on this trend among the soaps, which includes (but is not limited to) TGL in a Guiding Light thread, is perfectly reasonable. I agree, in its own way, GH's infatuation with Carly (and Sonny and Jason) has hurt that soap the way the Reva tunnel vision hurt TGL. It's sad watching multiple soaps making the same sort of mistakes ad nauseum. No one wants to see another soap become extinct like TGL.

Classy heroines like Penny Hughes, Jessie Brewer and Nancy Karr have been underrepresented on the soaps for many years. Reva Shayne and Carly Corinthos as leads is like Hollywood abandoning the likes of Grace Kelly and Audrey Hepburn in favor of Roseanne Barr and Rosie O'Donnell.🤢

Yes. I could never understand how a talented, charismatic, gorgeous actress like Rebecca Hollen could be dismissed, but to be fair, we don't know what TPTB were smoking in the 1980s, LOL.

Whether that ended up being an asset or a detriment depends on each viewer's point of view.😝 Aside from Trish, whom I liked a lot, I never grew to care about any of the Lewises. I disliked Beth, under both actresses. Reva's eating of the show became unbearable to me. Alexandra was marvelous while BM was there, but once Marj Dusay took over, I felt the character became an abrasive and one-dimensional irritant. Not to be a Negative Nellie (I know, I know: too late, LOL!🤣), but IMHO, of the show's final 27 years, I only found about about five of them to be worthwhile.

PFS returning to DAYS was such a welcome event for me. IMHO, she and WJB had been the show's very best writers of all time. TPTB at NBC, however, probably just wanted to capitalize of the GH angle since under Douglas Marland and then PFS, GH had been such a hugely-popular cultural phenomenon. It was so weird that P&G signed a renowned writer of her caliber, who had already proven she could succeed Douglas Marland to great effect, and then dumped her so quickly. At the time, Smith acknowledged she was mystified. I wonder if cost-cutting played a role. Pamela Long was a novice scribe, with no proven successes under her belt, and very little experience. It's not like her run on Texas was a ratings winner, so I wonder if TPTB went with her because she was significantly cheaper than PFS. Or maybe Gail Kobe had a mandate from the suits to dismantle and gut TGL the way ATWT had been gutted a few years earlier under Mary Ellis Bunim, to pander to the youth market. Kobe might have wanted to work with a writer she already knew. Anyway, this is just speculation. The facts are lost to history at this point. But it's so disheartening that the show had continued success in the palm of its hand (heck, TGL had even done surprisingly well in the ratings during General Hospital's explosive heyday), and then threw it away. Pamela Long did improve over time, and some of her work was effective (Phillip and Rick's friendship, Bert's short story with Martin Brunner, for example), but she was no Pat Falken Smith. PFS was one of the few writers whom I followed around the dial, from show to show. I knew I'd always enjoy her work (again, with the notable exception of Ryan's Hope). Isn't it curious that some writers do brilliantly on some shows, yet just don't gel and/or fail at others?

I know, and I consider that to be a major shame. With the glaring exception of Ryan's Hope, I found Pat Falken Smith's material upon assuming the writing duties to be exceptionally good. God only knows why her RH stint was so...tepid. I wonder if it came down to tepid production values and network interference at the time.

What killed me was that for so many years, the show treated Reva as The Irresistible Sex Goddess of Every Man's Desire. Um...no. 🙄 I found 1982 to be fascinating, with Pat Falken Smith's short tenure a breath of fresh air. She hit the ground running. It was clear she had studied the history of the series and had an understanding of the characters. I was relieved to see that the show would be in capable ands after Marland's departure, just as General Hospital had been when PFS assumed the writing reigns after DM left. Personally, I think Zimmer's own personality was too "big" and too "sassy" to be an effective Hope Bauer. If TPTB wanted to age the character (whom Don Stewart once said was supposed to be about 24 when Alan-Michael was born), they still needed to cast someone who could project the essence of who Hope was. I liked Elvera Roussel, but in 1983, if TGL didn't want to continue with her, I might have considered Jacquie Courtney for the part. Courtney was 36 that year (which was in sync with the SORASing Alan Michael), and Courtney had a solid reputation of playing kind-hearted, loving heroines.

LOL! That's so true: there were an overabundance of irrelevant, disposable, and ultimately forgettable newbies in the mid-1980s. If the entire series were magically available to stream somewhere, I could see myself watching up through 1984, while my old favorites were still featured, but I'd pass right over the "forgettable newbie" period, and pick up again when Holly and then Roger came back. Being able to take a break from Reva for a few years was such a relief. At the beginning, I probably could have taken her in small doses, but when she ate the show, I grew to loathe her. The painfully stupid stories foisted upon her (Reva the Ghost! Reva the Amish Amnesiac! Reva the San Cristobelian Queen! Reva the Clone!) did the character no favors!

Thanks for the reply. I love reading other fans' perspectives on their favorite/least favorite eras, and how they felt about controversial decisions and changes made by TPTB. (I don't always agree, of course, but differences in perception from fan to fan is always interesting.) Historically, the earliest storyline on TGL which I followed regularly was from 1950, when Meta Bauer went on trial for killing her husband, Ted White. It was mesmerizing. There were so many stellar storylines in the 1960s and 1970s too. With writers like Irna Phillips, Agnes Nixon, Jane and Ira Avery, Robert Soderberg and Edith Sommer, the Dobsons, Douglas Marland, and even (for a very short time) Pat Falken Smith, I depended on the show to give me quality entertainment. If your introduction to Springfield came in the 1980s, you are lucky that so many of your favorite characters lasted until the end days. Soap fans love the consistency of having familiar faces on screen. My problem was that almost all of "my" characters from earlier decades were gutted in 1983-84, so Springfield felt like a cold, unfamiliar landscape to me. I couldn't stand the Calla/Jessie/Simon stuff and the invasion of the Shaynes either. Thank God for Jerry ver Dorn and then (years later), the return of Holly and Roger. They helped Springfield feel slightly like home again. Regardless about how disillusioned I was with TGL's final decades, at least I was fortunate to have, watch and enjoy the soap during what I consider its halcyon days. It will always be at the top of my favorite-soap list, thanks to all the great years. I do think 1985-1987 were the nadir years of the 1980s. Like you, however, I kept up with the series long after the quality had collapsed, but the Wheeler/new production era did me in. Trudging through that dreck was a nightmare.

Just out of curiosity, what year did you begin watching the show? In my personal experience (and of course this doesn't hold true for every single viewer; opinions always vary among soap fans), many folks who enjoyed the period of TGL before Gail Kobe took over as producer in 1983 had a strongly negative reaction to the sweeping structural and cast changes. Did you continue to enjoy the show throughout the 1980s? Again, just curious. I know there are viewers who did.

ITA. That's why, when it comes to film, TV series, books, music and soaps, I gravitate towards the classics; tried and true and satisfying entertainment from years gone by.

If you joined TGL in 1990, then you were lucky to come in at a time after the worst of the destruction had already taken place. I honestly don't know how anyone survived watching the mid 1980s. The show rebounded more than I ever thought possible under Nancy Curlee's writing regime, and through some miracle, many in the audience had come to accept Maureen Bauer as the warm, benevolent matriarch the show desperately needed. As a bonus, Reva was off-screen for years, so we didn't have to endure over-the-top, ham-in-a-can histrionics. The cast at the time was strong. The resurgence did not last long, alas, and a few years later the quality of the writing was gone, some of the best actors were gone, TIIC killed off Maureen, dismembering the Bauers yet again, and show went back to circling the drain. Only this time, it never recovered, and limped along on life-support until finally being put out of its misery. It should have been laid to rest before Peapack, honestly.

Out of morbid curiosity, I felt compelled to watch the newer, Ryan Murphy version...just to see how badly they might screw it up. (I find so many remakes to be pointless, poorly done and ultimately annoying.) All of those adjectives describe RM's adaptation, IMHO. It was just...bland and inferior and lacked the raw power of the original. Curiosity killed the cat, as they say.

Thanks. I am now tempted to keep an eye out for reasonably-priced blu-rays of the show, after hemming and hawing about purchasing the Lion's Gate releases or not. It remains in my Top 10 Favorite Series list, even after all this time.

I recently re-watched 1970's Boys in the Band, and realized how well-acted and written it really was. Soap actors for the win! (Keith Prentice from Dark Shadows, Peter White from AMC, Reuben Greene from AMC Robert La Tourneaux from The Doctors, Laurence Luckinbill from The Secret Storm). I can only imagine the avalanche of hysteria that the film must have engendered among hyperventilating, pearl-clutching conservatives 50+ years ago.

UGH! The beginning of the end. The destruction Goutman and Sheffer heaped onto ATWT did not even surprise me very much, however, after seeing how other P&G soaps like TEON, AW and TEON has been crippled by painfully incompetent management and TPTB who just did not understand their shows or the soap medium in general. Susan Battan was indeed a horrendous recast. But let's not forget Charity Rahmer (DAYS), LOL. Even our ATWT hired the inexplicably-cast Jason Kinkaid to play Tom Hughes back in 1984. What were they smoking???

Thank you. Since you've actually watched and listened to at least some of the eps on the Lion's Gate blu-ray boxset, I'll take you word for the quality. Most of the amazon reviewers of the dreadful Imavision set simply waxed on about how much they lov ed the show itself, when they were kids. It's the QUALITY of the set I care about. Does your set include the original pilot film and the three, 2-hour movies that were made after the weekly series ended?

Over the decades, I have lamented many times about how crushing a blow the 1983-84 Massacre of TGL was, and how it seriously crippled the series. I don't need to regurgitate my personal complaints in extended detail...AGAIN, lol. I will say, however, that it's gratifying to see other posters, who had been watching prior to the Gail Kobe/Pamela Long era, acknowledge how abrupt, extensive and damaging the massive structural changes were. The show gutted its core family who had been essential since 1948, changed the style, focus and tone, and chopped off most of the soaps' memorable history. In exchange, we got saddled with the Shaynes, the Coppers, the Lewises, the Santos mob, the Winslow royals, and a seemingly endless revolving door of irrelevant and pointless newbies. 🤮 For me, 1982 was the last, great year of "The Guiding Light That Was."

Many years ago, when LHOTP was released on DVD for the very first time (there was no blu-ray option available then), it came from a company called Imavision out of Quebec, Canada. Their advertisements decreed that the series had been remastered, color-corrected, and contained "all available scenes." HA! After snatching up the collection, I was horrified to discover that: --The opening and closing credits of most episodes were cut off, leaving every four eps to play as one long, continuous piece. --The sound was screwy, recorded at a higher-than-normal speed or something. Even adult male characters sounded akin to Minnie Mouse. --The picture was muddy and dark. --Imavision culled eps from cut, syndicated TV versions. Instead of the original running time of 47-ish minutes, a number of eps clocked in at 37-40 minutes. Scenes were cut off right in the middle of dialogue. --Episodes were out of order. --Characters who did not even appear in certain seasons were featured in the packaging for those years, anyway. --There were spelling mistakes on the boxes. This LHOTP collection proved to be the single worst, badly-produced and butchered DVD set I have ever encountered. (Amazingly, reviews on amazon sung the praises of the show, but I daresay they were written and uploaded before buyers actually watched Imavision's version.) From what I gather the newer boxset, from Lion's Gate, really is remastered and features uncut episodes with good picture quality and decent sound. Still, I'm hesitant about shelling out another chunk of money on LH without definitive assurance from real people that the Lion's Gate set is professionally produced. (I don't necessarily trust amazon reviews anymore.) (BTW, the only other DVD set I've found to be ALMOST as bad as the Imavision LH one was the original Beverly Hills 90210. They were terribly butchered and rendered trying to watch the show worthless.)

Overall, we know that RC is the worst, for sure. But by having just three episodes to evaluate, his material must have come off as the least awful among the nominees.

Cringe. When awards are handed out for being "the least awful among our potential choices," this is what you get.

Thanks, @DRW50! I am always grateful the the heads up!

Thanks again, @slick jones. Of all the 8,765,432 Patti Tates on SFT, Loring was by far the most memorable.

Gracias, @slick jones.🙂