vetsoapfan

The weaker a show is, overall, the more glaring the weakest links in the cast are. If they don't have the writing and directing to support them, wooden actors flounder out in the open. At least Hensley was surround by some fine actors to prop him up. And at its height, ATWT never had as many dud characters on screen as GH does now.

So do I. Daytime TV is awash with executives who don't seem to understand soaps, and who micro-manage the genre out of sheer ignorance, making the same destructive choices their predecessors have made for four decades. Add the inexplicable habit of recycling "talent" that has failed before at other shows...and we have a recipe for disaster. I'll give credit where credit is due: Bobbie's farewell episodes were handled much better than I thought they would be. Ditto. She may not be Ron Carlivati bad, Chuck Pratt bad, Dena Higley bad, but being "less bad" than notoriously awful writers doesn't mean she's good, either.

He really was. Ideally, I'd like to see him as "lead script writer" at a soap with a strong, capable head writer at the helm. If PM could write two-three scripts a week and edit the others, that would be great. The mob garbage has been overplayed and beaten into the ground for 20+ years, as you say. It's tedious and creatively bankrupt. The criminal element on the show needs to be laid to rest. The GH cast is top-heavy and bogged down with a huge number of irrelevant and/or burned out characters who need to be pruned away, pronto. I've entertained myself more than once by taking cast lists of the various soaps and crossing out the names of all the characters whom I feel could/should be shown the door. ITA, but when I voice this opinion, I'm always told that I'm dreaming in Technicolor, and might as well dream about having Henry Cavill, Chris Evans, Chris Hemsworth, Theo James, Tom Ellis and Jamie Dornan as my personal pool boys...because that's about as probable, LOL That's the problem: we speak out and clamor for quality material because we DON'T WANT hordes of more viewers to stop watching.

I'm also having memory flashbacks to the early 1980s, when Pat Falken Smith returned to DAYS with so much fanfare, and also succeeded Douglas Marland on TGL. Back then, I was younger and more trusting that TPTB were not TOTAL imbeciles, LOL, but the swiftness with which PFS disappeared from both those shows indicates that the "suits" have not learned a thing about hanging on to quality writers in the last 40 years. The same dumb decisions and moves are still being made. People keep telling me that soap fans should never criticize or voice displeasure about the status of any daytime drama, because the genre is in such a precarious position that criticism and audience dissatisfaction may encourage the networks to cancel the few remaining shows. Comments should be glowing and positive.🙄 But realistically, the majority of reasonable viewers are not going to passively accept (and, worse, praise) utter tripe because it's better than nothing and it's all we can expect nowadays. If even ONE of the remaining four soaps were well-written or in decent shape, but they are all basically subpar. We have nothing to sing about. A lot may be riding on The Gates to succeed and rejuvenate the dimming genre.

I had a brief glimmer of hope when Kay Alden returned to Y&R, even though she was saddled with Sally Sussman Morina, whom I consider a mediocre writer. I hoped Alden's influence could result in at least some positive changes and help make Y&R...Y&R again. Now history has repeated itself. I was gratified to see Patrick Mulcahey coming aboard GH, even though I wished it had not been alongside Elizabeth Korte. I'd like to see Nancy Curlee take a shot at headwriting duties instead, with Mulcahey writing as many GH scripts as he wants. A Curlee-Mulcahey team would have my full support (with a change in executive producers of course). But once again, failed mediocrity is rewarded with important positions at a dwindling soap, leaving discouraged viewers to see this latest idiotic decision as yet another nail in the coffin of yet another troubled soap. Can I have Curlee, Mulcahey and maybe Lorraine Broderick as a team on The Gates?

Melinda Fee never showed any nuance or subtle shades on either TGL or DAYS, IMHO. I found her a let-down after Victoria Wyndham and Barbara Stranger. I agree. Stewart seemed relaxed in the clip but that interviewer creeped me out.

Of the two principle actresses who played the role (there were a couple of short-term fill-ins, as I recall), Victoria Wyndham was more nuanced and subtle. Melinda Fee struck me as too sledge-hammery.

I lived through the fashions of the 1960s and 1970s, but as bizarre as some of the styles looked in those days, nothing was worse than the hairdos of the 1980s, LOL!

In 1972, Mike was married to Charlotte Waring while he was defending Leslie on charges of murdering Stanley Norris. Their union ended bitterly, however, because of Charlotte's insecurity and treachery (she was jealous of Leslie and even tried to sabotage Mike's defense strategy by leaking his legal plans to the D.A.) A low-life former associate of Charlotte's named Flip Malone kidnapped her and ultimately tried to kill her. Mike, forever the hero, had come to rescue her. He jumped between Charlotte and the gun and got shot in the chest. Trying to escape, Flip sped off and died in a car crash. Although she wanted to reconcile with Mike, Charlotte could not win him back. Their marriage was permanently over. Mike recovered from being shot and subsequently married Leslie.

@DRW50, what a nifty find! Thanks for sharing!

I'm keeping my fingers, my toes, and even my eyes crossed, LOL. I'd love to be excited about a soap again, and find it a quality, mature, well-written production.

The Luke and Laura/Rapist as Romantic Lead, and The Ice Princess/Sci-Fi crap really precipitated the erosion of the soaps. The networks were so hell-bent on trying to cash in on GH's enormous popularity at the time, they either didn't understand or didn't care how they were butchering the integrity of the daytime TV. I wish The Gates had superstar writers at the helm, with a proven track record of success, but who's left? Almost all of the great scribes have passed away. I'd probably aim for a Nancy Curlee-led team and try to re-create the glory that was TGL in the early 1990s. (I know, I am dreaming in Technicolor!)

His writing choices on soaps never seemed too bright, LOL.

The Guiding Light.

The fact that almost no one stays dead anymore after they've been "killed off" is a main reason why soaps have lost their emotional impact over the last several decades. DAYS is probably guiltiest of this gimmicky practice, with a huge number of characters coming back from the grave (hello, Marlena Evans and Melaswen), but all the shows have fallen prey to this cheap plot device. How emotionally affected can we become when we know the deceased characters in question will just pop back up eventually? Yawn. Yep. Certain characters have long outlived their usefulness on their shows. TPTB may be loathe to eliminate them for various reasons, but all series need to change and grow over time. I'm not advocating instantaneous mass slaughter, of course, just occasional pruning. The problem with rumors is that we will never know how much fact is mixed in with simple speculation. The rumors I read had nothing to do with Rauch firing Sorel from anywhere, but rather that bad blood had developed between them on a personal level. This has been my point/criticism for decades. Not all new, outside talent is successful on soaps, but some first-time producers and writers have breathed new life into faltering shows and been a breath of fresh air. Michael Malone, during his first stint as headwriter on OLTL, faltered a bit at first, but grew to be quite effective in telling memorable stories. Overall, I find Carlivati to be a low-brow hack who dumbs down all the shows he's written. I will give him kudos for using vets, however, even when the stories he gives them are dumb.

Originally, I read reports that Patterson chose to leave. Later, it was reported/rumored that producer Joe Stuart fired him. Since Patterson continued working on soaps after departing OLTL the first time, and then returned after Stuart was gone, I can see the rumors about him being fired as potentially true, but after all these years, we may never have a definitive answer. I will say that Patterson's second character on te show was basically a bust. Killing Joe Riley was a terrible mistake. Right. Without any potential comeuppance possible, no matter what the most corrupt characters do, the plots become redundant and tedious. Let's have characters with multi layers and shades or grey, sure, but let's have some well-deserved punishment for unforgiveable crimes when punishment is clearly warranted. I agree. There's a major difference between complicated "bad boys" and outright monsters. Once the line is crossed, even if TPTB regret their stupid storyline choices, the monsters have to pay. Yes, there were rumors about Rauch and MK and also PR and Louise Sorel. I understand the concept of hiring executives with a history of being able to write and produce soaps, but only if their past work was SUCCESSFUL. Daytime TV keeps rehiring producers and writers who have repeatedly FAILED in their previously soap jobs. It's unfathomable and infuriating. I'd rather see a newbie given a chance, than have Chuck Pratt, Chris Goutman, Dena Highley or Jean Passanante foisted on another poor soap opera! Dorian was not well served under many regimes who just didn't know how to use her effectively. I watched MTM live when it was broadcast by CBS from 1970-77, and Saturdays become must-see TV. I never get tired of rewatching episodes.

As the years went on, I grew to accept Clint. He was okay, but I never felt any major romantic chemistry between him and Viki, like what I saw between Joe Riley and Viki. I guess TPTB have the mistaken idea that nice guys are boring, but to me, what I find tedious on soaps now is the heavy focus on criminals and degenerates. They've been dominating daytime dramas for 40 years. I say, fewer Sonnys and Jasons and more good guys like Larry Wolek would be a welcome and refreshing change! Once upon a time, if soaps wanted to keep characters viable, TPTB wouldn't cross the line and allow them to commit heinous crimes. Nowadays, characters can murder, rape, kidnap, drug and do all sorts of unspeakable things, and their monstrous misdeeds are brushed aside and ignored if the actors become popular. I find it irresponsible. Yep, yet another soap he screwed up. I remember that when he was finally replaced at OLTL, a critic in the press commented that the only thing about the show Rauch had not decimated was the theme music. Right. There were so many irrelevant and useless newbies floating around Llanview in the show's final years. Larry could have been a good anchor character to provide familiarity and continuity. But no. Modern soaps never learn. Everything about her apartment was lovely. I've always wondered who the little boy in the framed photograph (seen here on the table by the balcony doors) was. MTM's real-life son?

Yes, I was quite conflicted and sad watching Larry pine for Viki. To me, Viki and Joe Riley were soul mates and my preferred couple, but after Joe died and Larry's marriage to Karen fell apart, I would have taken a Viki/Larry pairing over Viki and Clint. I had known Larry for a decade by that point, and Clint was a stranger. I'm sure! Sadie was a strong, maternal figure to many people in Llanview. She could have, and should have, been used throughout the entire run of the show as a wise, sensible and supportive talk-to. As for Paul Rauch, his derogatory treatment of people has been documented for so long. It's always amazed me that he kept being hired to produce so many soaps, since at most of them, the bottom fell out and the shows became unrecognizable under his reign. Michael Storm and Larry Wolek were much more likeable and interesting that many of the revolving-door newbies that would take center stage after he was phased out. Soaps should always strive to keep their core, original characters as long as possible, particularly ones as popular as Larry (and Ed and Carla and Sadie). I've dreamed about living there for 54 years!

After Meredith died, Larry developed romantic feelings for Viki, and I'm sure his closeness with her intensified his disdain for Dorian. Relationships on soaps were so complex and layered back then. The best part was Dorian's shock at what was happening, and her astonished "Oh!...Oh!...OH!!!" LOL! Then she snarled at Karen, "I will see you barred from this hospital, along with your husband!" It was such an exhilarating moment that my heart leaped in my chest and it made me catch my breath. Just like on Another World, when Alice lunged at Rachel and chased her down the stairs and out of the Frame house. My adrenaline went into overdrive. The indifference soaps have shown towards beloved veterans in recent decades (if forty years can be considered recent) has always infuriated me. Eliminating Carla, Sadie and Ed was EGREGIOUS! Letting Larry drift into oblivion was too. My daily viewing of OLTL ran from 1968 to 1983, and there were so many strong legacy characters from that golden age who were gratuitously cast aside in later years. Yes, I believe are are thinking of the right house. The Riley living room was gorgeous. I wanted to live there. (Actually, the TV set that I dreamed about living in the most was Mary Richards' first apartment on The Mary Tyler Moore Show, but I digress!)

ITA. If a man hides/lies about essential facts which are likely to affect a woman's decision to sleep with him (like his having AIDS, his being a close biological relative, etc.) that is abusive. It strips the unsuspecting partner of informed consent, full body autonomy, and is repugnant. Good point. Well said. The entire genesis and handling of the Jammy ((ahem)) "romance" was skewered and immoral. It reminded me of the violent and ugly start of the Luke and Laura craze on GH: a degenerate raped a married teenager who clearly fought against him and was left severely traumatized by the attack. Then the TPTB suddenly decided to sanitize the entire abhorrent situation and claim the violation was "a seduction" because the show became enamored with a scene-chewing actor. No wonder Leslie Charleson openly admitted on the Donahue show how irresponsible the treatment of the story was. And no wonder Genie Francis acknowledged that her "blood ran cold" at GH's romanticizing the rape.

The award for worst writer in TGL's history has A LOT of nominees, LOL! I'd put Jeff Ryder, Megan McTavish and (particularly) Ellen Weston--among several other names--in the ring. Going back into the show's glory days, James Lipton's work was always mediocre on every soap he wrote, but he thankfully did not last long on this one.

No, the Larry-Dorian feud originated before the Victor Lord saga. In 1974, when Dorian was a practicing physician, she began a sexual affair with a young doctor named Mark Toland (who was married to Victoria Lord Riley's niece by marriage, Julie.) Through incompetence and careless decisions, Mark and Dorians accidentally killed Rachel Wilson, one of Larry's Wolek's seriously ill patients. Larry was suspected of and arrested for Rachel's "murder," which Llanview-ites blamed Dorian and Mark for, when the truth eventually came out (resulting in Larry's acquittal of all charges and Dorian's medical practice being terminated.) To be fair, Dorian had wanted to confess to the truth early on, but she was seriously injured and left in a coma, leaving Larry to face charges. Larry never forgave Dorian for Rachel's death and his legal battle, whereas Dorian felt unjustly crucified by the townspeople for Larry's legal nightmare...when she was unconscious in a coma. (I could see both sides, actually. Rachel Wilson would not have died if Dorian and Mark Toland had not inadvertently screwed up her medication, but really, when she was in a COMA, what was Dorian supposed to do?) The Larry-Dorian animosity lasted for years. It reared its ugly head again when Karen Wolek was revealed to be a prostitute, during the time Viki was on trial for Marco Dane's murder. Dorian marched over to the hospital with Colonel Hutchinson, a member of the board, to change the locks on Larry's door and have him barred from the hospital. This move was absurd and unjustified, of course, but when Karen discovered what the Colonel and Dorian were doing, Dorian crowed triumphantly, "Your husband has been asking for it for a very, very long time!!!" In one of the most satisfying scenes in this show's history, Karen replied "So...have...YOU," before pouncing on Dorian and whupping her a$$. UGH. Granger was pretty dreadful on OLTL. He was forever stumbling over his dialogue, forgetting his lines, and not-so-subtly reading from the teleprompter. I LMAO when he received an Emmy nomination for the role. Clearly, name recognition alone precipitated his inclusion. The same must have been true for acting legend Uta Hagen, who was nominated for her brief "supporting" appearance on OLTL, even though her performance was marred in the same way Granger's had been: through inability to remember her lines and stumbling through awkward scenes I loved many of OLTL's sets in the 1970s. The Rileys' carriage house had such a warm, cozy appeal.

I agree. Capitol was often a mixed bag; working well sometimes and falling flat at others. Slesar and O'Shea were good there. I will, however, always contend that TEON was Slesar's ultimate achievement. His lengthy Jonah Lockwood murder mystery was the most intensely suspenseful story I've ever seen on daytime TV. It was a masterpiece, and in my Top 10 storylines of all time list.

I'm happy to see he's doing well. Greg and Jenny and Jesse and Angie were a wonderful and memorable set of characters. AMC struck gold with them. So often, soaps' young-love romances just fall flat or the actors fail to generate chemistry. These four were notable exceptions. Yes, it's long rumored that MK and Rauch had issues, Susan Sullivan publicly announced her health woes a while back, but she's doing better now. https://people.com/falcon-crest-star-susan-sullivan-lung-cancer-surgery-exclusive-8420665

HS did a lot of work outside the soaps, some of which I've tracked down and been able to enjoy. To me, however, his crowning glory was his writing for TEON. He was also excellent on Somerset. The only series that he worked on, which I found did not "gel" well, was One Life to Live. I wonder if he and his co head writer didn't have the same vision.