vetsoapfan

In the long run, TGL was significantly more crippled than helped by Gail Kobe. Pamela Long eventually developed into a decent scribe, but her early years were a mixed bag at best, with a lot of weaknesses interspersed with some successes. When left alone at the helm, Jeff Ryder's deficit as a writer was painfully apparent. When GH lost Luke and Laura and sunk into sci-fi hell, sure, alienated viewers took a look-see at TGL. This produced a temporary, artificial bump in the ratings. But it did not last. The steady downward spiral in numbers experienced by TGL throughout the rest of the 1980s confirms that it was just not producing the kind of material its former audience wanted to see. When GH was a stellar soap and a rating's powerhouse at the beginning of the decade, TGL was pulling in an impressive 8.2. By 1989, even with GH in poor condition, it was much better rated than TGL, with its measly 5.4. Despite Kobe's and Long's assertions and bragging, our show was healthier before they tampered with it.

Gotta love John Beradino!

@DRW50, I always love seeing footage of Ellen and David Stewart, but this what not the best era of the show. Miranda was a dud. Everything with Mr. Big was an insult. Thank God ATWT was able to rebound from the mess Mary Ellis Bunim wrought.

Thanks, @slick jones. I remember Hobbs from various things, but mainly for his appearances on the stellar television drama I'LL FLY AWAY. I've always wonder why that fine series has never been commercially released. I've never seen it released in syndication, either, at least in Canada. Pity.

While Bailey was perfectly adequate, he never managed to bring any range to Russ, as opposed to Sam Groom whose performances were varied and nuanced. Bailey felt to me like he should have been cast as a generic, stolid lawyer on a Quinn Martin production. (Yikes, I'm aging myself there!) Firing cornerstone actress Jacqueline Courtney was a massive blunder. While some of her replacements were less bad than others, Alice just wasn't a draw anymore. While Victoria Wyndham eventually became accepted as Rachel, Robin Strasser's original replacement, Margaret Impert, was a flop. Major actors should not be replaced unless there is no other choice. With JC, the show had had a choice and made the wrong one. Richard Bekins is a good example of a replacement who worked out very well. Judith Light on OLTL took over the role of Karen and brought it to new heights. But IMHO, more often than not, viewers tend to prefer the original actors whom they know. I called Peter Simon "the fake Ed" for a solid 27 years, LOL! Soaps have always made the inexplicable decision to kill off beloved characters by choice. I don't like it, but at least Lee Randolph never had to endure being turned into a clone, a ghost, a time traveller or a San Cristocrapian queen. She can rest in peace!

Marie Horton, Lorie Brooks and Heather Lawrence (Somerset) had no idea they were falling in love with their brothers, so there was less of a toxic component to those relationships, particularly since they ended as soon as the truth was revealed. If Susan Matthews had loved Bill "too much" when she knew very well they were siblings, the ick factor would have been significant. In the 1970s, I found David Bailey to be bland after enjoying Sam Groom as Russ. I found Susan Harney to be shrill and unable to carry heavy emotional scenes effectively; a big comedown after JC. IMHO, Brian Murray was pompous as the new Dan Shearer, and Lynn Milgram was just...a little creepy as Susan. Aside from Irene Dailey as Aunt Liz and Beverly Penberthy as Pat, the Matthewses were not flourishing in my eyes.

IIRC, The Somerset Register was a fan site launched and written by the same gentleman who gave us The Edge of Night Home Page. (If I'm misremembering, someone please let me know.) Back in the day, I kept extensive scrapbooks on Another World, Somerset, Days of Our Lives, The Young and the Restless, The Guiding Light, Dark Shadows, and How to Survive a Marriage, with newspaper and magazine articles and interviews, storyline synopses, photos, critiques, etc. Everything on TEON and SOM websites correlated with the published information which I had collected in my scrapbooks. The sites were well-researched and highly informative. If the info about Bill Matthews and SOM was posted on the Somerset Register webpage, I'd bet it was accurate. Speaking of soap sites, Jason's DAYS page and The Another World Homepage are extraordinary achievements with mountains of historical data.

I know that Harding Lemay had flirted covertly with Iris having repressed incestuous feelings for her "daddy," and because they were his own creations, I couldn't quibble. That being said, even covert feelings of incest being hinted at within the Matthews family would have made longtime viewers' heads explode! Like, ewww.🤢

Although I was no longer watching and recording AW every single day in 1978-79 (I had become disenchanted with the show after the cast purge of 1975), I did tune in from time to time. I remember the speculation about Bill Matthews potentially being alive, that nothing ever came of it, and that the entire business just faded into oblivion. One curious scene I recall vividly had Susan Matthews out at Alice's house in the country. Alice cheerfully suggested that as an outing, they could go boating on the lake. Susan visibly flinched and looked away, distressed. When asked what was wrong, she quietly reminded Alice that her brother Bill had died in a boating accident, which resulted in her being resistant to engaging in that sort of activity ever since. She spoke about how much Bill's death had affected her, because loved him very deeply. Then, almost in a reverie, she murmured, "Sometimes I think I loved him...too much." Um...what the heck was THAT supposed to mean? The show never elaborated on what Susan was implying, and she never said anything like that again (as far as I saw/heard), but I wondered what kind of can of worms Harding Lemay might have been toying with there.

Yes, but P&G could have recast the role if they had chosen to. So it's hard to say whether they wanted to kill off Bill Matthews to facilitate a new story for Missy, anyway, or if they had hoped to include him on Somerset if Gallison had been free and interested. I hate back-from-the dead plots, but I found it to be a blow to the Matthews and Randolph families to lose Lee Randolph and Bill. Both clans were basically wiped out over the years. If Bill had ever popped up alive, I would not have objected too strenuously.

There were many questionable and/or pointless story and character decisions made at that time. There have been different reports on this situation. Some contend that Joe Gallison wanted to be done with AW. Others say it was not his choice for Bill to be killed off, but TBTB felt there would more more storyline fodder for Missy in Somerset as a young widow. Still others point out that he was on OLTL when Somerset began, and just wasn't available to return to AW as Bill anyway. This makes the most sense, IMHO. Gallison continued in daytime for years, on OLTL, Return to Peyton Place, and DAYS, so I doubt he would have willingly turned down a chance to return to a leading role on a popular soap, only to remain in the world of soaps elsewhere. His current employment tied his hands. In any case, with conflicting stories on why Bill was killed off, I doubt we will ever have a definite answer to the mystery after 54 years, alas.

Both AW and TGL were riddled with so many disposable and irrelevant characters in their later years; many of whom never caught on with the audience (IMHO). If either show could have benefited by crossing over highly-popular actors/characters from the other soap, it would have been a bonus for the audience to continue seeing old friends on screen. I never felt there was any real chemistry between Willis and Angie, or Will and NuAlice. Plus, the idea of Alice falling in love with him felt absurd to me, since she had already made it clear she did not trust Willis. What??? An actor who vexed Paul Rauch??? Whoever heard of such a scenario?🤔🙄 I remember Uncle Dru being talked about when the family received a postcard from him after he had left town on his world tour in 1971. Russom just wasn't leading man material. For Alice, especially, the show needed a dynamic romantic lead for her. When Jacquie Courtney returned in 1984, AW tried to pair Alice with the character of Mark Singleton. Actor Robin Thomas was serviceable enough, but had " tepid supporting character" written all over him. That relationship was a dud.

I was furious.

LOL!

Great post, @slick jones! Your wrists must get worn out from all that endless typing! I got exhausted just looking at the lengthy text!

In real life, many parents would become self-destructive in that circumstance, I believe. I cannot imagine anything being worse than losing your child. I'm not being facetious or making a joke when I say that even losing my beloved dog sent me into deep despair for an extended period. Losing a child would literally kill me.

After her passing, John did not mention Lee much (if at all) for a long time. Then one day, Pat and Marianne had a conversation about her. This was under Harding Lemay. Marianne asked her mom why John never spoke about Lee, and Pat acknowledged that he still found it unbearable, because losing her was so painful. Also under Lemay, someone brought up Aunt Liz's late son Bill. Irene Dailey (who played the moment beautifully) choked right up and struggled to get the words out: "There are some things you never really get over." Both of this scenes were poignant examples of the small moments soaps can do so well.

JvD was the LAST person who should have ever been dropped from TGL. For the majority of its final 25 years, there were idiots in charge who had no understanding of the show, its legacy, or the importance of consistency and history to the audience. Getting stuck with irrelevant, minor characters while beloved vets got the axe was infuriating. I didn't mind Frank Dicopoulus, but Frank Cooper was not a character who should have lasted longer than Ross Marler. Lillian Raines never should have outlasted Maureen Bauer or Holly Norris. Billy Lewis over Mike Bauer? Nope. Cassie Layne over Hope Bauer? Nope. The Santos mob and the San Cristobelians over legacy families? Never. To be honest, speaking of Emmys, I can't honestly say that the show was worthy of much acclaim in the end.

When Fitzpatrick first joined the show, Mary and Alice had a scene in the Matthews living room, in which Mary commented on the resemblance between Willis and Steve. There were rumors at the time of "difficult issues" leading to the dismissal, but in his book, Harding Lemay only commented that Fitzpatrick's being replaced was for reasons other than his skill as an actor. What are you curious about? There had been character crossovers before between shows on different networks, so...why not? Pat and Mike could have become a solid tent-pole couple in either Bay City or Springfield, with kids and grandkids to provide them with storyline fodder. Yes. Russ beat Willis to a pulp one day over his treatment of Sharlene, and shortly thereafter, Leom Russom replaced Fitzpatrick in the role and Willis softened significantly. Before I bought my first VCR (a Betamax) in 1977-ish, I used to record AW on audiotape every day, and I kept an extensive scrapbook of articles, interviews, notes, etc., about the series for years. I used to be embarrassed to admit this, but I have since come to realize that I was not the only obsessed soap fan out there! Lee lived there with him when she was alive in the 1960s, but I can't say for sure if they had ever had other living quarters previously. Pat moved in after she married John. Trivia: On the set, there was originally a framed wedding photograph of John and the first Pat, Susan Trustman. After Beverly Penberthy assumed the role, the photo was reshot with her wearing the same headpiece Trustman had worn, with the actors in the same position. Over the years, I've seen both versions of the wedding shot on the internet and in soap history books. (I know: no one else could possibly care about pointless trivia like this, except me. 🥺 My inner AW Geek is coming out, LOL!)

I figured.🙂 I was surprised they killed her off ATWT, rather than just writing her out, if they wanted to drop the character at the time. There was potential storyline fodder for her, if not at that exact moment, then down the line. They really do. And they are more alluring because we can all relate to conversations like those from our own lives. I have never once sat around with family or friends to debate the latest actions of our local serial killer.🙄 Leah's SORASing really threw history and other characters' ages out of whack. It was ridiculous. Incompetent, really. There have been certain PTB over the years whose keeling over...might have been quite satisfying, LOL.🫢

Yes, that clip comes from either April or May, 1975. (Eddie Drueding, founder of the Another World Home Page, has just written in the video's commentary section that the clip is from May 22.) Steve died in a helicopter crash while in Australia, so it could not have been when he was flying home to see Alice. When she had to do extremely heavy, emotional scenes, I found her to be less effective, but she was much better in quieter scenes, and she had good chemistry with the actors playing her family. I'd say she's the best-remembered and most-liked Marianne.

I presume you mean surviving footage from closest to her exit date. (I know that you are aware of the 1964, 1968, 1973 and 1974 material available on Youtube.) This is from April or May, 1975, and Courtney was fired a few months later. She was gone by the end of July. We had one episode with the majority of the characters hearing about Mary's passing. The next day, Pat told Ada and Rachel the news. A third episode had folks talking about Mary's (unseen) funeral. And that was it. I think Lemay wanted it all over and done with, ASAP. What strikes me is that these quiet, naturalistic scenes about family issues (which we could all identify with) are infinitely more engrossing that gimmicky scenes of devil possessions, clones, brain implants, gang shoot-outs and time travel. These people could be our neighbors or families, not the stick-figure caricatures soaps have often featured in recent decades. When asked to do "heavy lifting" acting, Mu(e)nker struck me at the time as being somewhat wispy and inconsequential, although she was fine with lighter, more naturalistic drama. I'll always contend that one of the most egregious cases of SORASing was Leah Bauer on TGL. She was born in 2004, and morphed into a teenager by 2006. Very possible. I would have liked to see Pat become romantically involved with Mike Bauer from TGL, with whom she was linked briefly in the 1960s. This would have given Pat a storyline with an established and popular leading man AND strengthened the foolishly-decimated Bauer family. Linking the Matthews and the Bauer clans would have been poetic! I think TPTB in latter years of many soaps simply did not know or did not care about history or trying to use it.

IMHO, while Brown was okay as Michael Randolph, Johnston was more gregarious, affable, and appealing. And Eric Roberts showed little spark as Ted Bancroft. He just didn't click in the role. I don't recall Pat ever getting a degree. She got sidetracked by an accidental pregnancy, an abortion, shooting her ne'er-do-well boyfriend, and then going on trial for murder. No, as characters go, Chris Pierson was a minor component of Bay City history. He was gone by the end of 1975, and popped up on TGL in early 1976. I can't wait to see them all.

In an interview published in 1974 in Daily TV Serials, Jacqueline Courtney confirmed that she had had kinescopes made of important Alice-centric episodes. Robin Strasser, at one point, said she had some vintage eps as well. Rosemary Prinz has shared many rare videos (of ATWT, AMC, How to Survive a Marriage) with one of her fans. He talks about them on Facebook. I would tend to think he was telling tales, but he uploads numerous screen shots, so it seems legit.

Thank you, @DramatistDreamer.