FrenchBug82

Actually I think the years immediately after the possession were MY favorite modern era (95-98ish). Kristen, Sami, Vivian era as I call it was just pure soap. OTT at times but in a funny camp way (and less nonsensical than the possession). But everything was firing on all cylinders and the stories crossed in ways that made sense. Then VERY shortly afterwards - 1998-1999 the show went to absolute hell (Garden of Eden, anyone?) and while there has been definitely bursts of interesting stuff and cool storylines since, it has never consistently reached the coherent soap goodness that was last seen in the mid 90s IMO Some people will probably be more nostalgic for the adventure eras of the 80s with all the iconic supercouples but I never warmed to that type of soap so I am not the target audience for it.

This. The difference however between LeMay and JFP is that LeMay got inspired by other genre but spotted the things about soaps that made them soap and preserved the RIGHT things while changing some things that benefitted from being changed. JFP's error was trying to import things from other genre - primetime in particular - that actually destroyed some of the things that made soaps special. It is an incredibly grave error but plenty of people who love soaps can disagree about why soaps are soaps - is it the stories? the pacing? the type of acting? the type of directing? Etc. What she thought was key and what she thought was disposable was VERY misguided but the very notion of injecting other elements to freshen up the genre was not in itself a sign she disliked daytime soaps. I am not thrilled being in the position to sound like I am defending her; I mean, I think her legacy is horrendous. And maybe this is a distinction without a difference. But bad strategic judgement is different from incompetence. She knew how to stage a show, how to produce a show. She just put those skills in the service of a bad vision.

I didn't like them but I third this opinion. I think that on a broad sense they worked. It is just that we were so over NL's Emily and the writing was so horrendous. But I still bought them then and buy them now as a "endgame" type couple rather than a throwaway pairing (that ship has sailed but you know what I mean) so technically so far it was the most successful of his couples

I agree with that assessment but I think the point ScottyBman makes that is worth considering is that the notion she is intentionally *setting out* to destroy an industry she has worked in for 35 years is wrong. She is misguided in her beliefs as to what works and how to "improve" the shows but the fact she has kept getting hired means that the suits agree with her and that some of the overall damage she did, she did out of conviction that it was for the brest and it would have been done by someone else if not by her. Which is emphatically not an excuse nor a defense of the substance of her legacy but a somewhat defense of her intent. She is wrong but out of love for the genre. Her defensiveness and mealy-mouthed defense of things like killing off Maureen and Frankie are because she knows how unpopular they are but she still thinks deep down those are the right moves and fans are just reacting emotionally rather than looking at the big picture. She is wrong but I have somewhat more respect for her having a vision, misguided as it is, than some of the other folks who have destroyed the genre out of ego or incompetence or indifference. Frons and Goutman are infinitely worse because some of what they did was just out of personal pique or personal tastes. Whatever one can say about JFP, she was competent at doing what she wanted to do and she knew what she wanted to do. Alas, what she wanted to do was damaging.

To be clear, it wasn't "fans" who revolted. It was a small group of HIS fans that HE riled up through his social media and who campaigned so aggressively for his return that producers yielded, despite the fact most of the show fandom was actually fine (if not happy) to see him go. Similarly I suspect the vocal Ciara/Ben supporters give the show a misguided sense of where the general fandom is at. The Ciara pairing wasn't a thing then so I don't think things would go the same. VK left of her own accord which makes it hard for their fans to scream and shout but they are still hanging on to the hopes that her regular returns are feeding. Firing RSW would be a too-clear sign that it ain't happening

For those who know what happened at Y&R and understand that reference, I am ready to bet that if they tried, the show would be Daniel Goddard-ed. We are stuck with him until HE wants to go.

I totally hear it but on the other hand I think of Nichols having a Wally Kurth type deal now and it would have been fun. It is not like they are overwhelming him with stuff to do as Patch anyway.

I got published once in the 2000s. It was something about soaps not being in a place to pat themselves in the back for including more LGBT characters - albeit great progress - until the real-life actors and actresses also started feeling comfortable coming out. The fact that by then there had STILL been no out LGBT actor in daytime by that time and only a handful of long-gone actors had dared coming out showed that gay characters were not enough to consider the industry inclusive when even obviously gay actors (spoiler alert: I had LeBlanc and Watkins in mind with that line) were still too scared to come out. I was STUNNED it was published but I was pretty damn proud. Still have the issue somewhere. Lord knows Carolyn H had her pets and I didn't always agree but it was still my favorite part of SOD to read because bitchiness is my jam and mocking nonsense in soaps while still celebrating the genre is exactly where I am at.

Exactly. That's why I brought it up as one of the most infamous cases of same-actors-different-characters not working. These two were fire on DOOL and not only were they not on GH but trying to make it happen literally sucked the life out of both characters and was actively off-putting which was quite the feat considering how iconic Kayla and Patch had been/are. Goes to show too that contrarily to popular belief, chemistry is not just something that randomly happens out of thin air. It also comes out of the actors' work at characterization and it is a testament to how good both actors are that when they played radically different characters, there was no je-ne-sais-quoi that could overcome how well they inhabited those new characters. Characters that didn't belong together.

A reminder to soap writers that great drama in a relationship does not have to come from a former lover coming back from the dead or a doppleganger or a convoluted scheme by a psycho. There is great organic drama to mine from any relationship if you pick at it.

I guess the original sin was probably to try this storyline with a *rock star* Setting aside the dumbness of the name the entire idea of selling this under the guise of a Peter Burns type celebrity was both a mistake because it screamed camp from the get-go (can't blame Carlson for going there: again he was playing a rock star named Zarf. Why wouldn't he think camp?) and it actually undermined the thoughtful human aspect by making it too easy for the part of the audience who wouldn't warm to the story to dismiss as showbiz eccentricity. The starting point needed to be a relatable human being - a bit like why the Bianca coming out story worked so well - and then take the audience on a journey with them.

I do recall SOD covering it pretty excitingly when it first started but then Carolyn H. soured on it quickly (the name was of course immediately a cause for mockery) and the coverage died down. Which, to be fair, is pretty much a logical way for things to go: interest in a groundbreaking and potentially original story and then letdown and moving it back to how you'd treat any other failing story. As messy as Carolyn H. was I wish there was an archive of her columns online. Some of them were funny and biased as she was, it would be a fun trip to the past.

Seems I am in the minority but I actually don't mind how they are writing Carly re: Jason. That it is one messed up relationship has been a underplayed beat of their friendship for a long time where she is not in love with him but still feel possessive of him and want him to be hers. This is exactly what the storyline is: she is gleeful that she has found a way to tie him down to her without either her or him being in love. She can use the "marriage" to shoo away potential rivals and be number one for him without wanting to be his real girlfriend. Which is what she has ALWAYS wanted. It is screwed up and infuriating but it is also very egoistical Carly, in character, a richer more complex relationships between a man and a woman on a soap we are used to seeing and I like it. I wouldn't like it if these were real people I know but that's one fascinating dynamic for stories IMO.

It is probably inevitable they'd try to see whether MW/MP magic would work again but GH hosted one of the most infamous chemistry-on-one-show-does-not-always-translate-with-different-characters-on-another when they tried to reunite MBE and Stephen Nichols so while this was ages ago, I'd think the lesson would have been learned - by them and any other soap executive - by now that a chemical reaction requires the exact same ingredients to be reproduced and one of those ingredients are the characters that were played. Same actors, different characters almost never ever work. Even on the same show (see on current Days Jake/Gabi vs Stefan/Gabi)

Yeah the two-year thing is why I always assumed he had walked, like to be fair so many young actors on soaps do.

And it never works. You can't recapture what makes a character special just by bringing the actor back. Not to mention Maureen just wasn't the kind of character you could do that kind of stretch-plausibility story for: her value was in how grounded she was.

This is where I am at personally - especially knowing about her mom and that her own politics are complicated. Producers are prodding her to do this. Again, even if Eboni had been genuinely the one constantly bringing it up, the producers could choose to edit out redundant conversations. Fact they are leaning on it so much means they think this is compelling which in turn confirms that they clearly put Eboni up to it. So I don't want to judge Eboni solely on this; but whoever produces that season needs to be out. Bad bad call: patronizing AND bad TV, a terrible combination.

I always assumed Cheyne was written out because, like so many young actors, they do one contract and off to greener pastures? Was it not his choice to leave?

It was never specified who he was "flirting with" but I didn't think it was TK yet at the time those were leaked. That cat-and-mouse game with RM lasted quite a while, it seems. Probably a lot of diva behavior even before the contract renegotiation. Peter Reckell would have been a TERRIBLE choice IMO

Maybe it will be controversial but it seems to me that if Sonny really *was* one of the central characters of the show, or the "star", as the show and most fans would agree he is (and on paper he certainly is), the show shouldn't be working out so well while he is away on a storyline island cut off from every other character. When Y&R's Victor Newman was presumed dead, a lot of what was going on back in GC was still haunted by his ghost. Here, everyone moves on and it doesn't feel like there is a void at all.

Well, Ramona has done and said a lot of things Hilton has been smart enough not to on camera so at least the latter is smarter. But there is a reason she is not a HW. It is easier to be an amusing sidekick as a Friend. If you take a crown, you'd be better ready for the incoming. Rumors are her kids are not having it.

I like TK and his Ridge is a richer character but I like to pretend he is just a different character who arrived after something happened to the original. You can literally picture everything that has happened to Ridge since TK took over happening to Nick and making more sense. There was not much to like in the original, certainly not the acting, but he still was Ridge, stiff pompous wishy-washiness and all. I remember reading lots of blind items in the year before it happened (that only became clear after the fact that it was about RM) that a certain producer was putting out feelers to an actor he had in mind and thus calling the chicken game of a certain diva actor who was certain his "iconic" role could never be recast and was being a pain. Talk about a "I am walking out unless..." that seriously backfired but to be fair, I would not have bet a dime on BB having the guts to recast AND finding a way for the recast to work and still be there 8 years later (!). I also expected, frankly, TK to get bored but I guess, like Heather Tom, the work must be really comfortable for older actors who want to earn a living acting but are kind of over the hustle.

Happy to hear this simple explanation. Thanks a lot Liberty City!

One thing I liked about the early sets was they really felt *Santa Barbara* to anyone who had been there. The Capwell mansion as initially shown, La Mesa as mentioned above, Santana's appartment, some of the fake exteriors, really had a sense of place. Later on they started becoming a tad more generic.

oooooooooooooooooh That makes sense I only saw "Slut"on-screen and I didn't compute with the "Slut from the Valley" thing. Whew.