GLATWT88

I did see that Carrie played a character on GL before (not sure of the character's impact), but it would seem logical to bring her back in that role. I know that it changed up the histories of the characters, but I thought Carrie played the role well. I don't remember the exact story anymore but wasn't Carrie the one that killed her niece, so what was the exact motivation of seeking revenge on these men of Springfield exactly? How bad was that really?

Thank you for your insight. I remember very little about Ben as I started watching around May 2003 and the character died in July 2003, but I just watched a youtube video compiling the characters storyline. I recalled the very end of it with Ben in the hospital and a few things before. I wasn't aware that Ben had a major connection to the canvas and I can understand why it would upset fans. I saw that the character was SORAS in 2001 and that Conboy was HW from 2002-2003. Does anyone know if this storyline was the intended direction for the character or if this was Conboy's doing and was the death inevitable because the character was beyond redeeming, did Matt not want to continue in the role so they decided to kill off the character or was it just overall poor judgement. Yes, I read that the show was asked to take a big budget cut in 2005 by P&G. Had ratings changed dramatically since the last time GL had it's budget set or was P&G just trying to kill off an already dying show. I was watching episodes from 2003 and I was surprised how rich the show still looked in comparison. The sets, the extras, the overall visual aesthetic. I guess as a newbie to soaps I didn't realize there was so much more going on behind the scenes because the show did look cheaper in the 05/06 episodes I revisited recently.

Meh, this talent show was not it. I was super excited after seeing all these queens enter the workroom and then the talent show fell flat. The talent shows in previous AS were so much better and showcased different talents, I felt like everyone was pushing their music this time around. The reading challenge was also okay. There's always some weak reads and queens who just aren't made for the challenge, but I felt like there weren't many iconic or memorable reads. Ricky was looking good. I think age has made him more attractive. I didn't think much of him when he first came on the scene and his 90s early 2000s. Shea was the biggest let down because she was one of my faves going in, but that stripper set was okay. Still rooting for her because I know she has so much talent and so much to offer. Derrick Berry saying he was so much more than a Britney impersonator, but all I saw was Britney. Derrick flipped that attitude when she was talking to India after being in the bottom 2. Blair coming in with her plumped lips and cocky attitude. I miss the shy, cute Blair from her season but good for her for coming back more confident. Overall, I'm excited for this season because I think there's a great group of queens.

I didn't realize AS premeied already. I'll be catching it tonight. I knew Derrick Berry was in a trouple and I believe that one of his partners waz actually made over by Alaska in a makeover challenge during season 5 and then actually started his own drag career. I'm not 100 percent sure on the accuracy of that whole statement, but I know it's something like that.

I wanted to get some perspective from long time fans or viewers that started watching GL pre-2003. I read somewhere that the years 2003-2005 are usually where many point to as the beginning of the end for the show. The Maryanne Caruthers storyline usually highlighted as a very low point in the soap. I started watching around 2003 and was new so didn't have the background knowledge of the characters yet or history so I wasn't bothered by the stories going on. Do most agree that these years or some of these years were really rough for the show?

Thank you for sharing. To clarify, I wasn't speculating on his ethnicity, I was discussing the term Hispanic and how it is often used as a pass for people who come from Spanish speaking countries to assert some otherness when it is used in the context of race and usually wrongly applied as a race identifier. Just because someone is Hispanic doesn't mean they all fit in the same race category. As I originally mentioned, I believe those scenes were deleted to avoid any confusion or controversy just because of how those scenes were edited. My intent was not to get into a deep conversation about race and race identities among Hispanics, but that's where the conversation evolved.

I'm not sure what your ethnic identity has to do with Y&R not including the Native American headdress. I also wasn't educating you on your culture as I don't know you personally, I was explaining how Hispanics encompass an array of ethnic, racial and cultural identities because you used the term as if it denotes one singular identity and therefore it was okay for any Hispanic to rock indigenous headdress. Race is a flimsy social construct when you start to break it down, but it is also very much apart of America. As you mentioned, keeping it PC definitely played a role in not including the images.

Well Hispanics encompass an array of race identifies and ethnic groups and many times a combination of races and ethnicities. For example, most Dominicans present phenotypically as black when designating race group, while Argentinians phentotypically present as white (which was a product of race relations and colonialism in each individual country). Just because one Hispanic may have native ancestors doesn't mean that all Hispanics have indigenous ancestory or lineage. Nonetheless, that particular headdress may not even be associated with the Native tribe to which that particular individual has a connection. Hispanic is not a race identity, but a grouping of individuals with different races, ethnic and cultural traditions based on common language. If the actor who plays Miguel is not indigenous it would nonetheless be insensitive for him to wear such a costume regardless if he may phenotypically resemble someone who may be indigenous. To elaborate, Dominicans and Haitains which share the same island but were colonized by different countries actually have different racial/ethnic makeup. Haitians tend to be more predominately of African descent than Dominicans who tend to be more a mix of European and African descent and this was largely due to how slavery was conducted in each country (which I won't get into now). Nonetheless, Dominicans are considered to be Hispanic, because they are from a Spanish-speaking country but their race identity is black, because phenotypically that's how they would be categorized by American race groups. On the other extreme you have Argentinians and Uruguyans which have a predominately white ethnic identity (again in relation to colonialism and slave relations in those respective countries which I will not get into). Most Argentinians and Uruguayans can trace roots to Italy, Spain and Germany among other "white" nationalities. They are also predominately white countries. However, Argentinians and Uruguayans like Dominicans are also considered Hispanics although neither of the three are likely to have indigenous (very small percentage) ancestory. Mexican, Central Americans and several South American countries do have large indigenous people or people with indigenous ancestory. However, this does not mean that just because someone is Hispanic, they are indigenous or have indigenous lineage. It also doesn't mean that someone that is Hispanic and phenotypically resembles an indigenous person is necessarily indigenous or of indigenous ancestory as many Hispanics are a mix of racial and ethnic identities that may present that way. So to bring it around, I think Y&R was preventing backlash so decided just to not include those scenes altogether.

Yes, I believe that is Miguel. Someone mentions it in the comments. I don't know if Miguel was an important character at the time or about those rumors but I really enjoyed this episode and reading the storylines connected to this period. Obviously the episode needed to be edited down from its runtime from 1991 to fit current episode length, but considering how Miguel was cut from every scene where he was prominently visible even scenes where he was just in passing which made some scenes look choppy, it was clear he was removed due to his outfit.

Speaking of race and how general perception has evolved and changed over the years, I will say that Y&R acted positively and with sensitivity when editing the 1991 Masquerade episode. After watching the episode during the Friday classics, I decided to look up more episodes from that period and while doing so I stumbled upon a clip with the deleted scenes that didn't make the 2020 re-broadcast. One thing was glaringly obvious to me, a lot of scenes were cut to exclude a character that was dressed in Native American headdresses. In recent years, we have become more sensitive to the harm caused by acts of cultural appropriation. Many celebs have actually gotten into hot water for using Native American symbolism, dress and imagery. I think whoever was in charge of editing the episode was aware of the issues that might arise from including those scenes. I didn't bring it up weeks ago when I first watched as I didn't know where to address it, but I feel as if it may be relevant to this topic. I'm surprised no one in the comments section of the YouTube video noticed it. I'm sure to most of the older audience and even some of the younger, it would seem like it is not a big deal, but considering our current climate and how we are changing albeit slowly I think it was culturally responsive and responsible on Y&R's part. If anyone is interested in the scenes I am referring to, the clip below includes the scenes that were removed from the re-broadcast. Most of the scenes with the character are in the second half of the clip.

I think it's okay and important to have problematic characters on soap operas as long as they're not being touted as heroes and the topics are addressed/handled in a responsible manner. Passions did tend to address very tense topics with humor and sometimes it worked and other times it failed miserably.

To really tackle that and dive deep into the issues in black communities regarding queer identifies would have been incredible. No other format gives you the time and space to really portray social issues as in depth as soaps. Thank you for sharing this, @Faulkner Patrick really highlighted some major issues in dealing with diversity in daytime. Not surprising that it's even more challenging now with the state of soaps.

Clearly this is a reflection of what was happening BTS and the views of TPTB at the time. Perhaps a fear that focusing too heavily on black characters might push away certain audiences, therefore having Vicki in those long shots behind Carla. I read on Wiki that Southern affiliates began to boycott the show when it was revealed that Carla was actually a light-skinned black woman passing as a white woman and not actually white. Which is funny because it was fine as long as they believed she was white, but once she wasn't it became an issue as if there weren't more scandalous stories on soaps before this. It also shows what a flimsy construct race really is and such a great storyline that OLTL decided to tackle. I'm not giving them a pass on those wedding scenes, but the race storyline seems progressive for the time and the fact that it causes uproar from affiliates proves that. Soaps wouldn't dare upset their affiliates nowadays.

Kyle is such a punk. Everytime she's confronted she walks away or cries, but when Denise wanted to remove herself from the same stupid conversation about why she didnt want her kids around adults talking about sex, Kyle was telling her not to leave and to revolve it. These ladies really need three dinner parties to resolve something that should be a non-issue. It's beyond pathetic. Kyle is super insecure and these ladies are using this to bring Denise down. Kyle also keeps thinking she's doing something with those questionable outfits she keeps wearing this season, which is laughable especially since she has made several judgements on cast wardrobe in seasons' past.

I think the name you were looking for was Patricia. I thought it was fine that he jumped in to defend his wife as long as he didn't get too crazy. I mean Teddi was sobbing at the one dinner party and her man was eating his soup and let her take it. Normally, I don't think the men should get involved, but if they're all seated together like that than I think it's fine as long as there are some boundaries. I'm so done with the repetitiveness of this whole storyline. I wouldn't be surprised if Kyle brought Brandi to bring down Denise so she wouldn't have to continue to get her hands dirty.

Can we get at least one 70s episode before this is over. Well two considering the time they have to fill. Something we can't already find online.

It fizzled out quickly. The third episode really wasn't all that necessary. They could have edited the good parts and fit it all in 2.

I wish there was a "like" option. Thank you. You're right I did see Abe in one of the preview posts around and I did catch Lani on a day I caught a bit of an episode. When I first started watching soaps what I noticed about Y&R was that they actually has a black family that was prominent. I knew who all these characters were and they actually seemed to serve a purpose and have things going on. I'm surprised Lily and Devon are still on because I would have recognized them right away, unless they're being played by new actors. Just probably weren't on much these past few weeks before repeats. I have not seen a single non-white face the weeks I watched BB. I remember a few years ago when I started following more regularly again there was the Avant family which was just being introduced. I also remember Rome Flynn was on but can't remember his character's name which I swear I read somewhere that his character was going to come out as gay but I don't remember that ever happening on the show unless that rumor completely made up. As for GH, I usually tune in and out right away or don't bother as there's an hour gap between the end of BB and GH and I start doing other things. So I was probably not paying attention.

Do any of the 4 remaining soaps even have a black or other minority family on the canvas currently? I'm trying to think of what I've seen the past few weeks and I can't think of any.

When I first started watching BB, I remember there being a Latino family. The Ramirez family was soon phased out and then I remember thinking for a few years after they were out that there wasn't any non-white characters (at least regular characters) until Maya was introduced. Did the BB have a fully integrated black family before the Avants?

I was going to mention the same, but I'm no expert. It seems to me that for a genre that was known for so many firsts in its early years, soaps stopped taking risks as far as representation, diversity and storytelling in the late 90s/2000s if not earlier. While primetime had started to show intimacy in gay characters and pushing the boundaries in the 90s, it took daytime until the 2000s to really push forward. I mean the first gay male kiss was in 2007 on a P&G soap nonetheless. By 2007 Will & Grace had ended it's original run, there were more gay characters on TV than before. If there was an audience that could handle a gay kiss it was the daytime audience IMO. They handled crazier stuff before without flinching. Diversity in soaps has been an issue for sure, especially lately. I think one problem with diverse characters in daytime and how they are represented comes down to a lack of diverse writers and storytellers in daytime. The same writers are recycled to repurpose and regurgitate and unfortunately you need diverse writers to tell stories that are authentic.

It's unfortunate that a show that has provided visibility for the LGBTQ+ community has also been plagued with so much racism. Although, maybe it was necessary so that there can be dialogue about race issues that are also found in the community. I didn't see any racist comments personally, but I did see some Jaida fans calling other fans out and saying that Gigi's fans for that behavior. I also saw a lot of comments saying Gigi should have won.

Was she the favorite to win? I didn't really watch this season, but I did see some crazy stuff on twitter.

I'll be honest. When I first saw Jaida's I was taken aback especially after watching Gigi's and Crystal's (not that Crystal's was very good IMO), because it's the one that looked like she just recorded it at home. The other girls had backgrounds or other elements that distracted from the fact they had to do these at home. Jaida pulled up in her living room and started dancing with all her furniture on display. However, after watching a second time, she did deliver with moves and a good lip sync, it was just so distracting because it looked like a Tik Tok video.