Vee

Lovely, thanks.

Deflection. He's been saying for months the show is gutter trash designed to demean people of color because it didn't use his fanfiction and he gets insecure when people mention that he's never going to be on the team. It is something where I maybe hope the Bob Guza mindset wins out on some execution points. Maybe it works for the show's new audience that may need constant reminders, or for the CBS loyalists, I don't know. Recapping plot will always be a part of daily soap opera. It's how you do it that is the issue, and I have never been a fan of the B&B model which thus far BTG is heavily adopting for that kind of material. I think MVJ needs to be drawing much more from her GH years for this stuff but whatever its current woes B&B still gets those location remotes and had a very strong international audience for many years, so I could be wrong.

Absolutely. Everything with Derek and Ashley is nigh-unwatchable. Doug gambling his life away at Golden Corral is not much better. And they aren't the only major problem actors for me. I just try to keep it in perspective re: the other soap beginnings I've watched. There is a lot I'd like to see change, but I am giving them the time to get there since they're like 30 shows in. In the meantime I am happy to rake the bad over the coals.

It does when you're on your third SON account, have been calling it "guaranteed trash" since before it aired, spamming the threads with misogynistic and bigoted hate speech videos and most of us have you on Ignore. I did you the kindness of looking at your blocked post just to reiterate all of that for any lapsed posters just now joining us already in progress who might think you have any legitimate thoughts. There is plenty to critique about BTG. I am good friends with a guy who has been roasting its flaws in my iMessages all week. But nothing in good faith has ever or will ever come from the guy who's spent a year super pissed that Michele Val Jean isn't taking his fanfiction seriously. Embrace your irrelevance.

I think there's plenty to critique, starting with how much of the B&B house style of heavy exposition, formal pronouncements, etc. that I think MVJ internalized after working there for years. I'll get to that when I finish this week's shows. Part of that is part and parcel of starting any new soap and part of it is just unnecessary and very artificial, and bears little resemblance to human speech. But B&B had trucked along and made money overseas for many years and kept a loyal audience, so I can understand why some of that model was adopted. B&B is just not a show I can watch regularly, on any level. There's also a number of actors or characters who have to be put out to pasture immediately. I will say the dialogue is absolutely geared towards Gen Z and millennials. I don't hear people talking like that on GH or Y&R, and I assume they still don't on DAYS. Some of it flows well, other stuff is very awkward or cringe and How Do You Do Fellow Kids. (And Derek and Ashley don't use nearly as much of it as the young people in the Dupree family.) But that may be my older ears wincing at how others could be taking it - the TikTok, etc. viewer crowd don't seem to have any issue with it. That use of slang as well as the edgier, racier overt sexual discussion surprised me from CBS/P&G and reminded me a lot of the AMC/OLTL revivals on Hulu. I was surprised they got that long a leash from CBS Daytime. It's fresh in that way even if not every actor or writer on staff can make it work. It is also clear something went down early in production given the way some of the act breaks or full episodes end, as others have noted. I feel about the same as Chris - they are in a fallow period between the rush of the launch period and May sweeps, and it's in sweeps and at that 13-week mark we should start seeing key cuts and changes. There's a lot I think has good bones, and there's a fair amount I think is rough and has got to go. But that still falls under the category of standard new soap mess, unlike after the first month of Passions where I wanted to shoot myself in the face. My first and primary concern is more naturalistic dialogue and less B&B-style Wikipedia stuff or sermons on the mount. I'm most encouraged by the audience it's grown, which seems new and fresh (and so far loyal). And it seems obvious it's not getting pulled in 6-12 or presumably 18 months, so it's got time to keep working it all out. I'll get to the rest when I finish the last of these shows.

We all know who does!

It lacks the intelligence and drive of Passions' first month, that's for sure.

The Samantha/Dani/Chelsea stuff is smart and encouraging.

More cast integration is always a plus, despite it being Hayley with Frankenstein's monster. The spoilers for next week indicating is also smart.

I think it's also about pacing out the run-up to May sweeps, which I expect to get pretty hectic. They could not have kept up the blistering story pace of the first 2-3 weeks (nor should they) for two straight months. I was fine with that pace, but I saw other people here complaining they were burning through too much story. Clearly that wasn't the case. There's dud stories or characters here and there and all manner of kinks to be worked out, but that's all typical of any early soap. What's most impressive to me is how it seems to be holding onto a new or lapsed audience online with a vise grip, even if the numbers from week to week fluctuate.

I also think last week was pretty good. I didn't find it boring. I do think the recurring issues that are endemic to people who spent years working at B&B are a major factor with how BTG functions and feels, and I guess at this point I'll get to talking about and the larger last month-plus at the end of this week's shows vs. last week's.

Tomas' face will not move.

It is funny that both this casino and Zach's on AMC look like Golden Corral. I like JL on the show but I do not care about Doug or his gambling. Doug can die immediately.

It feels like a place to put Vanessa since they basically duplicated the character in Cady's second bestie for Dani. I get it but I do find it odd. I am not sold or dismissing it in either direction just yet.

I think half the show is full of potential and the other half (maybe third) can go. But that's pretty typical of a very new soap for me. I am not going to come in with any preconceived notions about MVJ and her ability or lack thereof since she only ever interim HW'ed once very, very briefly at GH. That is a pre-written thesis that lacks data.

I'm a bit behind but it is shocking how much better MART1N (in honor of M3GAN 2.0, out this summer!) has been lately. Hope it continues.

Yep, and agreed on both. We've discussed it forever, often in the context of elevating Brenda. It's doable. I've said it many times: I don't need Sonny or Carly or even Jason to go. I don't want Carly gone. I do think you can change how you use them or what their stories are, and run out the clock on Jason if not Sonny as well.

Not the 1:1 on Carlotta!

Sidwell's layers are "he was on 24 twenty years ago and Frank likes his accent." That's it. He's Cyrus with a shaved head and a vaguely European air. It's a total waste of time. Because they are. And it's clear many of them BTS either like Maurice personally too much (or find him too indispensable to the show's ratings) to see objectively.

Having a substantive conversation with a contrarian tr0ll who somehow still isn't banned is a fruitless pursuit. If there's something most of the board likes or hates his position is purely and simply the opposite. He knows most of SON hates JFP or is critical of Carlivati so he makes a point to post cheering them on at all times. Did you know he met [insert name here]? He'd like you to know, a lot. Anyway, I'm sure when Bev rises from the grave this debate on her vacation time during the George H.W. Bush administration can continue.

Eh. It's a new show.

I think what Booker did yesterday was worthwhile, I'm not attacking him (nor do I have some deep love for him). I'm also glad he called attn above to the inertia among a number of the Senate Dems and their inability to face the current situation for what it is. Most of all I'm grateful he at least stood up vs. being another Dem cowering and running to talk to the DC media on background about how pathetic they all think the party is. As opposed to Bernie who I am sure just thinks now is his moment to run, again. I have no patience for the left divesting itself from any responsibility for their actions and viewpoint for the umpteenth time. Nor am I interested in the Dem reps' constant leaks to Politico bemoaning our need to coddle 'the working class' even more. So when it comes to the leftists and the Senate, I can have smoke for two entirely different groups. Because AFAIC both had a key hand in getting us here. JMO. I don't know the solution and we may not see it in my lifetime, but I've had about my fill of both.

I think fights have to be strategic, but I also don't think people really care what Dems fight for right now so long as they fight on something. That's why we're seeing the anger and energy we're seeing from the base, and it's not from the deranged dead end left, it's from normie Dem voters, rational people. And in this case, I don't think Schumer has the will. I think he's a good man who's done good work through a long career, but who also thinks that if he just stays the course it'll all work out. It won't and it hasn't, and faced with that his approach seems to be that eventually his friends on the other side of the aisle who he goes to the gym with (this is from his own recent interview) will come to their senses in another 6 months. I think that's indefensible in the crisis we're in. Hell is here and the devils are loose. So at this point I'll take a change. I don't see how rubberstamping Trump's budget made sense, and I don't see much of anything actually stopping Trump right now. Any minor legal victory is just smashed by the next power grab, because we're beyond the beyond. So while I have zero faith in the current party leadership, i'm willing to try just about anything new short of Bernie !@#$%^&*]in' Sanders. YMMV though and I respect that, because I respect you. And I don't blame you for getting out. I'm pretty much out myself.

Found it (timestamped).

@Mitch64 asked about the GL 9/11 tribute from Jerry VerDorn, so here it is. Still very moving.