Mona Kane Croft

2 hours ago, carolineg said:

Agreed.  That was my first thought when the question was asked.  I guess Marlena, Julie, or Maggie on Days would come the closest.   I think Ron is trying to make John/Marlena the new Tom/Alice, but they just aren't lol.   Maggie is probably the closest in personality Alice, Marlena has the most connections and gives the most advice, and Julie makes the most sense due to longevity/age.  But none work. 

I can't think of anyone on the other soaps.  Monica on GH crossed my mind, but most her relatives/children are dead and she's rarely on.

Unfortunately, the definition of soap opera matriarch has been expanded over the past 40 years to include nearly any older female character who is a member of a family.  But pre-1980, the term soap opera matriarch referred to the mother (or occasionally grandmother) of a show's core family, which also made her the matriarch of the entire show. And not all soaps at that time even had a core family or a matriarch.  For example -- ask any soap fan in 1975, who are the matriarchs of the various soap operas on American TV?   You'd get responses such as, ATWT: Nancy Hughes; GL: Bert Bauer; AW: Mary Matthews; DOOL: Alice Horton; Y&R: Jennifer Brooks; AMC: Ruth Martin (or maybe Kate Martin); RH: Maeve Ryan. That's about it. Most of the other soaps at that time didn't have core families, because they had a different focus -- crime drama (EON & Somerset), hospital drama (GH & TD), heroine drama (SFT, LOL, & OLTL), etc.   

But post-1980, ask who are the matriarchs of the various soap operas on American TV, and you'll hear names such as Nikki Newman, Kathryn Chancellor, Reva Shane, Monica Quartermaine, Marlena Evans, Liz Matthews, Phoebe Tyler, Erica Kane, etc, etc, etc.   It's simply an evolution in the perception of the role and a change in definition. The perception of the soap opera matriarch has morphed into something much broader -- many times just the older woman in any soap family (as opposed to the older woman in the core family).   

Soap operas have abandoned their historic archetypal characters (including the matriarch and patriarch, and nearly all the others) in the past 40 years.  By the way, what's happened with the ratings????    

5 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

Of the remaining U.S. network soaps on air today, how many of them have figures that would qualify as a matriarch, do you think?

In my opinion, none of them.   

11 hours ago, Xanthe said:

Constance Ford was with Louise Fitzhugh when she started on AW in 1967. Nancy Wickwire joined AW in 1969. 

I believe Ada's late in life daughter, Nancy, was born while Nancy Wickwire was working in California and ill with cancer.  The story goes that Connie Ford requested Ada's baby be named Nancy, in honor of Wickwire.   I don't know if the two were still a couple at that time, or at the time of Wickwire's death.   

6 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

Dec 79 Schreveport Journal

Former Shreveporter Moves From Academe to the Soaps By DAVID CONNELLY 

When John William Corrington and his wife Joyce began their careers in academe they never thought they would end up as writers for a daytime drama. Now they dream up the daily trials and tribulations of the characters in “Search for Tomorrow” which airs every weekday at 11:30 am on KSLA Channel 12 (CBS).

Mr Corrington, a 1951 graduate of Byrd High School and a 1956 graduate of Centenary College taught English on the college level for many years and became chairman of the English Department at Loyola University in New Orleans. He later became an attorney and practiced law in the Crescent City. Mrs Corrington, his wife of 20 years, worked as a chemical engineer for many years and also served as a professor of chemistry at Xavier University in New Orleans. She later collaborated with her husband on their many screenplays in addition to now co-writing the scripts of “Search for Tomorrow” .

The Corringtons who now live In New Orleans have included characters from that city and Shreveport in the drama and report that they have have met with much success “The producers of the show were very receptive to these characters because they had never had anything like them” Mr Corrington said “It adds another unique dimension to our drama” Though the network daytime dramas are taped In New York City Mrs Corrington noted that many of the writers live In other parts of the country. “They like to keep the shows reflective of middle America and most daytime dramas are set in smaller cities often in the Midwest” she said. Writing for a daytime drama is lucrative but it’s also extremely demanding “It consumes your life” Mrs Corrington said, “If you weren’t married to the person you’re writing with you’d never see your husband”. “It’s like working for a newspaper”, Mr Corrington added. “You have a new deadline every day and you have to come up with another script. You rarely get a day off”.

There are three levels to writing for a daytime drama according to Mrs Corrington.

First they have to decide on a long-term plot — what’s  going to happen In the next two or three months.

Then they have to develop the synopsis for a week and further break that down into separate acts.

Finally there’s the actual writing of dialogue. For the most part Mrs Corrington handles the long-term projections and her husband writes the dialogue though they work together on all aspects of the drama. “We have discussed many scripts over dinner" Mrs Corrington said.

The actual time involved in writing an individual script varies “If you have a script you’re really excited about it comes fast” Mr Corrington said. “Sometimes you really have to struggle with it. Usually it takes about 6-10 hours to write one half-hour show and that doesn’t include conferences and planning" The husband-and-wife team regularly talks with the producers and directors o( the show on the phone.

As writers the Corringtons appreciate the emphasis on the script in soap operas. “Daytime drama is literate” Mrs Corrington said “Because you can’t go out and do all the visuals you have to rely on words". While working on feature films the Corringtons found that the movie industry put a low premium on words. “In Hollywood a writer has little impact" Mrs Corrington said. "The director is the motivating force -  You give him a script which he uses as a blueprint and often you recognize only a small part of your work in the final product”. Writing for daytime has a different kind of frustration ‘The greatest frustration is that it’s so ephemeral there are no repeats”, she added. “You can see movies over and over again and good novels hang around for a long time I’d like to produce something that hangs around for a while”.

Any daytime drama has to attract a female audience, but Mrs Corrington is quick to point out that “Search for Tomorrow” has a male following too. “According to the Nielsen ratings men make up about 20 percent of our audience. “The main consideration is that we always try to involve women in the stories”, she added. “We don’t have many male-male conflicts independent of women”. Much criticism has been levied against daytime dramas for their treatment of women and for what some see as their negative effect on the female viewer. Soap operas according to some critics encourage women to ignore their own problems while fantasizing about the more exciting lives of the female characters on the screen. Caught up in their daytime fantasies they don’t take active steps to change their lives.

The Corringtons reject this view “If you're sitting in front of a TV set you’re watching dreams being created. Psychologists say we can’t live without dreams”, Mrs Corrington said. “You get to know your soap opera friends better than most of your real friends” she added. "When was the last time you stood by listening to a couple argue or when was the last time you shared an extremely personal problem with a friend? I think we’re a little remote in our daily lives”.

In the future Mr Corrington who has written novels, poems and short stories would like to devote more time to essays. “There’s a point when I think I’ll want to leave these more concrete investigations and concentrate on pure theory” he said. But Mrs Corrington quickly added that they haven’t tired of their work on “Search for Tomorrow ” “We’ve been doing it now for over a year and it’s still a kick”.

 I loved the Corringtons' work on SFT, as I felt they breathed new life into the old show.  Unfortunately, later writers were not able to continue the style the Corringtons had created, and SFT quickly regressed when they left to create Texas.  I wish the Corringtons had been able to create and write Texas without all the network and sponsor interference they encountered.  I'm confident it would have been a compelling show.  Unfortunately it's been said, Texas was the first soap opera created by committee.  And the results seem to substantiate that.  

2 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

Surprised to discover  that Constance Ford was married at one time. Came across a newspaper article from 1954.

The relevant excerpt

Shelley Hull, the son of the actor and stage manager at the theater, into her life. She and Hull, now a director for ABC-TV were married in 1947. '

THE HULLS live in Greenwich Village in New York in an apartment Connie says is furnished "for comfort." They enjoy the easy informality of Village life. But as a housewife, Connie has one admitted handicap, she hates to cook.

Shelley Hull went on to work with Aaron Spelling on Colbys, Love Boat etc

They separated in late 1955

Constance Ford and her husband Shelley Hull celebrate their ninth wedding anniversary by separating. She'll keep their apartment, he'll move to another.

interesting.  I wonder when Nancy Wickwire came into the picuture.  

15 hours ago, danfling said:

When Another World hired Larry Haines after the cancellation of Search for Tomorrow, why did it not work out?   I am not sure how many episodes his character was on, but it was probably under five.?

 

Although Larry Haines was a great actor, the character was badly conceived.  With his silly name --  Sidney "Sharky" Sugarman, and his overly comedic presence, the character just didn't fit as a long-term love interest for Ada.  Plus, their romantic back-story was historically inaccurate, since Ada didn't move to Bay City until middle-age, when Rachel was already a young adult.  As I've said in previous posts, Donna Swajeski (head writer at the time) was not good at creating new characters.  Although her writing for existing characters was usually acceptable, most of the characters she created were gimmicky and unbelievable.  Derrick Dane, Frankie Frame, and Sharky Sugarman are just three good examples of that.  Frankie Frame did eventually out-grow her gimmicky beginnings and became a beloved member of the cast, when later writers wrote for the character.  Sharky was just too silly to be believable, even with Larry Haines playing the character.   I can certainly see Connie Ford and Larry Haines playing opposite one another and having great chemistry.  But not as Sharkey.

1 hour ago, dc11786 said:

I believe P&G played a role in “The Catlins” from the beginning, but it was more informal. P&G’s vanity card didn’t appear until March/April 1984 around the show’s first anniversary. Despite this, I do believe C.T. McIntyre tried to sell the company on the show before it’s premier but I think P&G waited to see how things went. 
 

The cast changes began fairly early in the show’s run. Julie Ridley was in the role of Maggie no later than July, 1983. Prior to acting, Ridley had been in a production role. The rest of the changes occurred when Steve Lehrman, a former “Edge of Night” script writer, was tapped to head write the show in the summer/fall of 1983. By that point, it was a mix of hiring local talent and New York talent for the contract roles. 

I believe J. Don Ferguson and Muriel Moore were let go because the show wanted T.J. and Annabelle to be the mature romantic leads so they went younger with Michael Forest and Pamela Burrell. 
 

A lot of the early press stated P&G was involved in the production. One said it was bankrolling the show so it does appear they had a major stake from the beginning.

That's all very interesting.  And seems a unique way for P&G to involve itself in a show -- rather than just owning it out right.  Plus, most soap historians report Texas as P&G's final new soap opera. But if your information is correct, The Catlins would actually be the final new soap produced by P&G.  

Did P&G take over production of The Catlins late in the show's run, or was The Catlins a P&G show from the beginning?  I remember in the early era of the show, most of the major roles were cast with actors who were actually from Atlanta.  But later, many of those roles were either written off or recast with former P&G actors from New York.  Does anyone know what precipitated the casting changes?

54 minutes ago, BakerSq said:

I watched a bit on my iPhone. The scenes in the restaurant featured palm trees in the background and that got me thinking. Wasn’t The Young Marrieds set in a suburb of the then unnamed town on General Hospital? So at this point GH couldn’t have been set in New York but rather a locale with palm trees like Florida or California. Makes me wonder when TPTB at GH decided GH was set in New York.

I believe Port Charles, NY was first identified as the location of General Hospital by the head-writrer who preceded Douglas Marland.  So that would have been mid to late-1970s.  Coincidentally, I believe the same thing happened on The Doctors -- another soap opera with an undisclosed location until the mid-1970s, and again the head-writer who preceded Douglas Marland (on The Doctors) identified that city -- in this case Madison, in an undisclosed state.

1 hour ago, Tonksadora said:

Well, this is very interesting. Some things don't matter; some things don't make sense. At any rate, if the offer was made to Beverlee & she declined, Goutman still had what the fans agree was a great idea but he couldn't bring it home. At any rate he tried. And, of course, Beverlee & Iris #1 is all over "old show" not new. Then Carolyn Culliton & the gorilla & her mate Richard (Culliton again) & her keeper, Sam & who Felicia was asking for on the phone, is Samuel D. Ratcliffe, RIP, the W & HW responsible for the comedy & high-jinks of Cass & Wally & Felicia & the gorilla Carolyn & that is all old show, not new. That is an homage. Maybe I'll add in confusing to interesting. At any rate soap journalists don't tend to get things wrong but at some point they are relying on what someone at the show told them, so there are many possibiities. I will say that if Goutman thought those last 2 days were for the new fans, at a wilder time in my life I'd like to have had whatever he was smokin'.

Yes, that's what is so ironic about Goutman's decision making.  He made a big deal about no retrospective stuff and making the finale for the new fans, instead of the old, etc., etc..  And then he agreed to bring back that ludicrous gorilla from the mid-1980s.  He could have invited Pat, Alice, Liz, Clarice, Jamie, etc, etc, etc -- but no.  We get the gorilla.  And Russ Matthews playing a minister. Poor Sam Groom must have wondered what kind of mess he had returned to.  Nuts.  

1 hour ago, Vee said:

I'm not sure if McKinsey even agreed to do it.

It was Beverlee McKinsey who said no, not P&G.  P&G had agreed to it.  Also it was Goutman (not P&G) who refused to do a retrospective show, use flashbacks, or bring former characters back for the final send off (other than Iris and Russ, who he had agreed to tentatively).   Goutman was quoted in more than one publication saying something along these lines -- "We're making the end of the show for the current fans, not the old fans. (not an exact quote)."  That was his flimsy and stubborn rationale for not looking back at the show's history during the final episodes. There were plans for Russ Matthews to return for a reunion with Josie, and share some memories with Rachel (and perhaps Iris).  David Bailey was unavailable, so the show hired Sam Groom and flew him all the way from California to appear as Russ.  But at the last minute, Goutman even refused to allow that tiny nod to the show's history, so they treated Groom like a glorified extra, and had him play the minister at Cass and Lila's wedding.   Insulting to the long-term viewers.  

2 hours ago, Tonksadora said:

A new bit of canon about another ATWT character coming to AW but being only offscreen.

 

I was looking for something, else, on ATWT's wikipedia page when I saw this: Quote Donald works for Mitchell Dru ( Geoffrey Lum) on this sh... And I went into investigative mode. The conclusions create a new little tidbit of canon.

 

The cast of characters: Mitchell Dru, an attorney from Oakdale (ATWT) now in Bay City (AW). Donald Hughes, another Oakdale attorney (ATWT) who at times works for Mitchell Dru or with him, also now in Bay City (AW). Mike or Michael Bauer, another attorney but from Springfield (GL), also now in Bay City (AW). Hope Bauer, daughter of Mike Bauer, also in Bay City (AW) with her father. What we knew before: Mitchell Dru was from ATWT but in AW but

offscreen. Mike Bauer & his daughter Hope were from GL but were in AW onscreen. We knew nothing about Donald Hughes & he will remain offscreen.

 

Now looking at the recap in question, we find we are here: http://www.anotherworldhomepage.com/aw1966.html Another World Synopsis FEBRUARY 8, 1966 (EP. #441)

 

This is my rewrite of the recap with these last names added in & the new info: At the hospital coffee shop, Mitchell Dru told Michael Bauer that John Randolph agreed to see him that very evening, then castigated the press for harping on Pat's trial. Joe visited Lee again to tell her that though she's torturing herself for all the things

she's done to others, her feelings toward Pat haven't changed. Though he assured her it was too early for such a change, he felt she was capable of it if she made a real effort. Mitchell Dru introduced John Randolph and Michael Bauer, who compared notes on their daughters (Maryanne & Hope, respectively). Michael Bauer said he worked with Donald Hughes mostly on his criminal briefs, and had worked previously with George Hayes in a much smaller firm. John Randolph, impressed that Michael Bauer was itching for more responsibility, hired him since he'd been having to turn down cases, and also because Mitchell Dru was too involved with teaching to completely help out in the office while John Randolph took a few days to recuperate. Lee reminded Mitchell Dru of his warnings about revenge. Joe earned Lee's trust by not telling Mitchell Dru about her suicide attempt. Mitchell Dru told Lee of John Randlph's plans for Michael Bauer, and encouraged her to visit her father. In the hall, Joe dismissed Mitchell Dru's appraisal of his positive influence on Lee, then distressed him by saying John Randolph's surgery will cancel any meetings. Mitchell Dru then tried to convince John Randolph that Michael Bauer would be detained in meetings all day tomorrow.

 

Note: George Hayes was a Guiding Light character played by Phillip Sterling (1962-1968), who went on to play AW's Rafe Carter from 1970-1971.

Note: Mike Bauer & Michael Bauer are the same person.

 

Additional: Lance Jackson:Donna, Mitchell Dru certainly got around on the Irna Phillips created P&G soaps! He was originally a character on “The Brighter Day”. When it was cancelled in 1962, Dru moved to Oakdale and “As The World Turns” and became a member of the the Lowell, Barnes, Lowell and Hughes law firm. He was considering representing Ellen in her quest to regain custody of Dan whom she’d given up for adoption but ultimately turned her down. I’m assuming that Mitchell Dru arrived in Bay City and Another World sometime in 1966. He was responsible for getting Mike Bauer to Bay City from The Guiding Light. I assume too that Mitchell was somehow related to the Matthews family because in this 1968 episode Alice refers to him as Uncle Dru.

He must be the brother of one of the Matthews wives.

 

I believe Mitchell Dru arrived on Another World during Pat Randolph's murder trial to assist with the case, so he was in Bay City in 1964 or 65. And he was a regular on-screen member of the cast until he left the show around 1971. Mitchell Dru is not a blood member of the Matthews family, but the Matthews kids (Russ, Pat, and Alice) called him Uncle Dru because he was an old family friend. I believe Lee Randolph may have also called him Uncle Dru. Most adults on AW called him Dru, even though his first name was Mitchell.  I don't recall anyone ever calling him Mitchel on AW.  Lee Randolph is John Randolph's daughter.  Marianne Randolph was not born until 1970-71, so in this episode (from 1966) any reference to John's daughter refers to Lee, not Marianne.  

I do not believe the intent of the dialogue in this episode was to imply that Don Hughes was (or had been) in Bay City.  I believe the intent was to suggest Mike Bauer had worked with Don Hughes in Oakdale -- even though Mike Bauer had never appeared on screen nor had even been mentioned on As the World Turns.  It is a mystery why Agnes Nixon (head-writer for both AW and GL in 1966) put that statement in the script.  It would have only confused viewers who watched all three soaps (AW, GL, and ATWT), because the viewers would have known Mike Bauer had never appeared on ATWT.  Strange, huh??

11 hours ago, soapfan770 said:

Why didn’t the networks better support their 1/2 hour soaps in the 80’s and 90’s? I know some affiliates had unwieldy power back in the day but the fact network pre-emptions killed off Edge of Night and Ryan’s Hope while a show like Loving just failed to thrive over lack of clearance is sad. By the time ABC & NBC got more strict/doubled down in the early 00’s it was too late. 

After the most popular soaps switched to the 60-minute format in the mid-1970s, the remaining 30-minute soaps were treated as the red-headed step-children of the networks.  They were a lower priority than the hour long shows in every way.  Often given the worst time slots, or moved around the schedule willy-nilly. They typically had the worst or most inexperienced writers, and when a head-writer on the 30-minute soap was successful, he/she was often grabbed-up by a 60-minute show, leaving the 30-minute show in a lurch. They did not receive as much promotion as the 60-minute soaps on the networks themselves, nor in the soap press.  And I believe even the audience held most of the 30-minute soaps in distain -- assuming they were unappealing, uninteresting, or old-fashioned.  It always seemed to me, the networks were just waiting on all the 30-minute soaps to be cancelled.  The one exception to all this was The Bold and The Beautiful, which had the power of Bill Bell behind it, and the enthusiasm of CBS.   

On 5/6/2022 at 2:30 AM, Paul Raven said:

One thing that puzzled me was the staircase. Was the Hughes house meant to be more of a split level type of thing as that staircase was only a few steps.

I agree.  I always thought that tiny staircase looked ridiculous.  But sometime in the 1970s, Chris and Nancy's living-room got a full sized staircase that showed all the steps -- all the way up.  I believe the staircase was also moved closer to the front door.  You can see it in some of the episodes on Youtube.  I don't know if the living-room remodel was mentioned in any scripts, or it just happened without mention.    Anyone else remember??

8 hours ago, DRW50 said:

Sharon Gabet, or whoever is running her  channel, has been uploading various vintage clips from 1976-1980. Some are  familiar but some are not, to me anyway. 

@vetsoapfan @Paul Raven @Vee @victoria foxton @danfling @robbwolff @jam6242 @Khan Apologies to anyone I missed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYqj_AmlZiI

 

 

 In this episode, Dixie Carter's voice sounds so much like Beverlee McKenzie. I had never noticed that before. I could actually close my eyes, and imagine it was Beverlee speaking -- not every single line, but many of them.  Anyone else notice this?

27 minutes ago, Joseph said:

Were There Any pianists ever on Bay City? i seem to remember pianos on the sets but never someone played

There was a piano in Liz Matthews' original house (before she left town around 1971), and later in Steve and Alice's house (until Alice left town in 1979).  Then around 1987, a piano showed-up in Mac and Rachel's remodeled living-room and remained until the final episode.   Nobody ever played any of them, that I recall.  Considering the timing, I've often wondered if they were all the same piano.  Who knows?   

4 hours ago, Xanthe said:

According to the AWHP synopses, Susan was Russ and Rachel's dinner guest on April 9, 1969.

Thank you. That's interesting.  I know Rachel had lots of interaction with Liz in the late-60s and early-70s.  But never heard anything about Rachel's relationship with Susan.  

Does anyone remember if Robin Strasser's Rachel had much contact (or any scenes) with Susan Matthews, before Susan left the show in 1971?  

29 minutes ago, Khan said:

Am I alone in thinking Chance's mom and dad should be there to help him through his problems?  They don't even need to bring back Thom Bierdz!  Philip could be recast.

I agree.  It's time for Phillip to return permanently as a father to Chance. And it's also time for a recast.   Bierdz botched Phillip's last return and he's proven he is no longer capable of playing a role on network television.  Recast Phillip with a capable actor who is excited to play the role.   

1 hour ago, Faulkner said:

Ryan savagely beating Steve and Audrey on GH.

 

 

 

Wasn't this Steve and Audrey's final storyline? I realize they both remained on the show for years after.  

A scene on Another World in 1978 was one of the most graphic things I have seen on a soap opera.  Jamie, Dennis, and Regina unexpectedly found the rotting body of the missing Cory servant, Rocky Olson.  The body had been wrapped in plastic and hidden in the water under a dock in the Cory boathouse.  When Jamie, Dennis, and Regina tried to untie a boat, they accidentally pulled the body from under the dock -- and the scene was gruesome.  The acting, directing, background music, along with the sight of the floating body in plastic -- made the scene unforgettable.   

3 minutes ago, Khan said:

Agree.  If I were going to pair Bert with anyone (besides back with Bill), it would've been with Henry Chamberlain.

I would have wanted Bert to remain middle-class.  So marrying her to a millionaire (no matter who) would be a bad idea in my opinion.   

14 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

Hmm, for some reason Cartagena sticks in my mind but cannot be sure.

I was also thinking it was Cartagena.  So I believe you are probably correct.  But isn't Cartagena the capitol of a real country?  Maybe not.  

Does anyone remember the capitol of Montega on ATWT?  I remember Lucinda, Sierra, and others used to mention the country's capitol occasionally, but I've forgotten the city's name.   And yes, I know Montega is a fictional country. But it also had a fictional capitol.  LOL.  

Just a quick comparison --  George Reinholt was 36 years old, when he was fired from Another World.  Brian Gaskill (AMC's Bobby Warner) is now 52 years old, yet he looks young enough to be George Reinholt's son. Can someone explain that?   LOL.