Mona Kane Croft

1 hour ago, Donna L. Bridges said:

Neil, I find it often called "preferential treatment in the credits". I'm tentatively working on a new blog with the working title "Interesting Credits" which seems lame. It would begin with "Never So Young" which just has totally different credits & then go on to first billed & last billed as blah blah "and so-and-so". 

This will be interesting.  I'm glad you seem interested in verifying the information.  So much incorrect information gets passed around from message-boards and websites.  Now, some of it has even been published in books, and it is not accurate.  So keep up the effort.  

54 minutes ago, vetsoapfan said:

Mary Stuart was always listed first among the actors, of course, but I never saw (nor do I recall at this point) ever seeing her receive special star billing.

I would call Mary's billing special billing, but certainly not star billing.  And obviously not star billing in the opening, like Prinz, Andrews, and McKenzie received.   

There is a long list of soap opera actors who received special billing in the closing credits.  But only three known to have been given star billing in the opening.  

On 6/30/2023 at 5:26 PM, danfling said:

I think that the Jasper Delaney storyline may have been Mr. Slesar's best - although he did not initiate the sotyrline from the beginning.  

I wonder how this would have been if it had been written by Robert Cenedella instead.

I know that in Cenedella's original storyline projection, Robert Delany was supposed to die fairly early in the series.  I don't know if Jasper's death was a substitute for killing-off Robert, but it is possible Slesar decided to save Robert and dispense with Jasper.  

3 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

With the writer strike ongoing, I was glad to see that a majority of the 1988 writer strike episodes were still on YT for AW.

On an episode to episode basis, I think the scenes and dialogue are not too bad.  There seems to be more of a focus on smaller moments/filler then having actual ongoing plots.. other then the Jamie/Lisa/Vicky situation.. and the start of the Drew Marston arc.

I just finished watching the June 1st episode and it the perfect example of this smaller/filler moments.  You have newlywed scenes with Sam/Amanda, the high school graduation scenes involving Matt, Ada/Jamie scene, Lisa/Cheryl hanging out at Tops, and the introduction of Chris.

I'm intrigued with the Chris character only because she was randomly introduced during the strike.. and I wondered if she was a planned character pre-strike or if the scab writers needed to fill up time so they created the Chris character. 

In her debut episode, she seems over wrought.. yet demanding an equal chance of working in construction.  I'm not sure if the writing intended to show this clashing of first impressions, or if it was an acting choice.

There has always been speculation that the scab writers were using Harding Lemay's plot projections as a basis for their day to day scripts, since he had been hired and had submitted his plan before the strike began.  If you are familiar with Lemay's writing style, you may be able to recognize things that may have originated from his ideas. And you may also be able to notice things that were certainly not his ideas -- the Nicole/Cass ghost story, for example.   

I would suggest the focus on smaller moments between characters you mention probably originated with Lemay, as he preferred to write character development, rather than strong plots.  Also, the Drew Marston story may have been his idea, since it flowed so well into the introduction of Iris (after the strike).  But the way the scab writers plotted the details of the Marston tale probably diverted from Lemay's intent quite a bit.   Also, Chris may have been a Lemay creation since she was a character with a lot of internal emotional problems -- a favorite Lemay character device.  Additionally, taking Lisa/Jamie/Vicki in the same direction as Alice/Steve/Rachel (years earlier) likely was one of  Lemay's contributions.

On the other hand, anything overly dramatic, over the top, or overly "soapy" was probably concocted by the scabs, who were under no obligation to follow Lemay's projections, if they decided not to.  

I'd enjoy hearing more of your thoughts on the 1988 strike era.   

42 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

I'm trying to remember if they were still in strike mode when we got to stuff like Felicia going to Vegas and being hypnotized. 

 

If my memory is correct, the Felicia's hypnotism stuff occurred after the strike and was written by Lemay -- believe it or not!!  It certainly didn't seem like something he would write, but I think perhaps he was trying to loosen up a bit, and not be so stubborn about what he was and was not willing to write, this second time around.   

1 hour ago, Donna L. Bridges said:

For any of you who were interested in the correction of inaccurate information about the first star billing instance in soaps, this has been published today. 

https://shallotpeelblog.org/2023/08/19/blog-249-v-2-star-billing-in-us-soap-operas/

I want to say a word about research. I love it. I also love the writing once the research is done. I find research to be tidy when you begin with an idea & tidy at the end when you've done all that can be dug up & you write it up but very messy in the middle. You've got lots of notes & people are throwing ideas or facts or both at you, which you are glad of, and some things seem to contradict each other often & then it comes together. Like the A-Team I like it when a plan comes together. Thank you for your attention & for those of you who helped me get the Mary Stuart-Donald May-Jonathan Frid "groupies" off my tail, extra thanks! 

Thank you for doing the research and finding verification which can finally clear up this error among soap opera historians.  I sincerely appreciate it.  Can you please post this in the TEXAS discussion page too?

32 minutes ago, Donna L. Bridges said:

As you know I set out to correct the idea that Beverlee McKinsey had the first star billing, rather than the last, and one of the places was her IMDb page. Well, it turns out it is amazingly difficult to do! I have just this morning submitted by 3rd correction & I think this one will go. 

Here's how it laid out:

• McKinsey, Beverlee
  • Trivia - Replace

    • Old -
      McKinsey's character, Iris Cory Carrington Delaney Bancroft, on [link=tt0057731] proved so popular that she was made the star of the soap's spin-off series, [link=tt0080290]. McKinsey remains the only star on daytime television to be given star billing in a soap opera.
      New -
      McKinsey's character, Iris Cory Carrington Delaney Bancroft, on [link=tt0057731] proved so popular that she was made the star of the soap's spin-off series, [link=tt0080290]. McKinsey remains the last star on daytime television to be given star billing in a soap opera. It includes her face & the words "Starring Beverlee McKinsey".

Sadly, the incorrect information is so ingrained as truth in popular soap-opera culture, it is very possible the person in charge of Beverlee's IMDB page will simply not believe you.  Perhaps if you added a bit more evidence, like the following statement: "McKinsey is among a very small group of daytime actors (including Rosemary Prinz and Dana Andrews) who were given star billing in the opening credits. And to date, McKenzie is the last actor to receive that recognition. Her billing on TEXAS included her face and the words, "starring Beverlee McKenzie."   

This is just an idea that might convince IMDB that your edit is indeed factual. Or at least it might convince them to do a little research to find the truth.  But feel free to disregard it, if you feel it is unnecessary.  

13 hours ago, danfling said:

Now, I really want to see the episodes that you mentioned!

I looked up the numbers of each of the episodes, and I was wrong -- the episodes I described are not two in a row.  But they are very close together.  The episode numbers are #658 and #661.  Just in case you want to watch them.   There is something about those lengthy inserted scenes that seem very awkward. In addition, they are edited badly.   

Was there ever a writer's strike during the original run of Dark Shadows?  I'm a long time DS fan, and have recently been watching DS on Tubi. I noticed a couple of strange episodes just a few weeks into the werewolf/Quentin storyline.  In what I believe is Joe Haskell's final episode, there is a strange lengthy and unnecessary dream sequence that goes on for several minutes. Franky, it just seems like some kind of time filler.  And in the very next episode there is an extremely lengthy and unnecessary flashback of Barnabas telling Julia about his vampirism in 1795. This 1795 flashback consumes most of the episode, and is only vaguely connected to what is going on in the current plot.  Again, it really seems like nothing more than a time filler.   I don't recall other episodes of DS ever including this type of interruption in the action for something that seemed so out of place. 

I'm wondering if they included these two lengthy scenes in order to avoid writing new material and dialogue for the actual episodes.  Writer's strike, perhaps?  Has anyone else ever noticed these?  Any speculation on what might have influenced the decision to do this? 

13 minutes ago, Donna L. Bridges said:

Okay, IMDb shows him playing the role 1964-1982, so is that an error? I know they have many. I'm trying to figure out if I saw him when I watched the first week of shows at the Museum of TV & Radio in NYC (now called The Paley Center). 

Marlowe was the fourth actor to play Jim Matthews.  He assumed the role in 1969 (possibly '68).  The names and  premiere dates of the other three actors are available on the AWHP.   

Also, I'm almost positive the Paley Center does not have the first week of Another World in their collection.  Perhaps you watched the first week of another soap, is that possible?   

2 hours ago, Donna L. Bridges said:

Apparently Stephen Schnetzer was not DAYS' only Julie's brother. In this closing credit, '68 I believe it was, with all 3 Olsens - Addie and Ben and Steven - Flip Mark is playing Steven. 

I believe there were four actors who played Steve Olson over the years.  I do not have their names at the moment.  

3 minutes ago, Jdee43 said:

Hugh Marlowe was awful in the 1980/81 episodes uploaded to AOL, obviously reading off cue cards and probably not in good health. I recently saw him in the 1951 western Rawhide, and he was good. Seeing him in 1981, time was not kind to him.

I watched Hugh Marlowe during most of his run on Another World (1969 to 1982), and he struggled with his lines almost continuously -- sometimes to the point of embarrassment  Frankly, I'm surprised he didn't get fired.  On the other hand, he was charming and lovable as Jim Matthews (despite his acting difficulties), and I liked him in the role.

I have seen Marlowe in several movies, and he was a very fine film actor.  It appears he just couldn't handle the rigors of daytime television, or was perhaps unwilling to prepare adequately.  But the differences in his film performances and his work on Another World are jarring.  

An actor who played one of Jim Matthews' children on Another World reportedly shared that Marlowe had new marriage and a late-in-life child in 1969, and took the job on AW in order to support his new family. The actor also commented that Marlowe more or less phoned-in his performances on AW and did not take the job very seriously.  

25 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

So I guess it was just an overall trend rather than NBC specific

It seems a bit more of an intentional effort at NBC.  Because around 1969, three out of four NBC soaps had a significant movie actor in a lead role.  And although soaps on other networks had cast film actors occasionally, only Joan Bennet on ABC had a lead role. The others seem more incidental, in my opinion.  It would be interesting to know who was head of NBC daytime programming throughout the 1960s.  Was it one person for the entire decade?  Or did the position change hands several times?  And did the person in this position prioritize hiring film actors into lead roles, or was it just coincidence??

When Hugh Marlow was hired to play Jim Matthews on Another World in 1969, he had been a movie actor for many years, having roles in at least thirty-five films (and major roles in many of those).  Does anyone think perhaps NBC pressured P&G to find a movie actor to play the Matthews family patriarch in order to follow the success of MacDonald Carey (another movie star of comparable stature) playing a similar patriarchal role on Days of Our Lives?

Additionally, during this time Dana Andrews was cast as the star of another NBC soap opera, Bright Promise.  And a few years earlier (1965), movie star Ann Sheridan had been cast as Kathryn Corning on Another World.  That left The Doctors (and later Somerset) as the only NBC soap(s) of that era without a movie actor in a lead role.  I've often been curious if NBC was intentionally attempting to pepper their daytime dramas with film actors -- something the other networks seemed to have little interest in at that time.   

Putting someone on ignore does not really stop one from seeing their posts, because many of their posts still appear in the narrow column on the right. Even when the poster is on ignore.  I'm just pointing out that, in general the ignore feature is not effective.  If it were, that would be a great option to stop seeing a poster who is bothersome.   

5 hours ago, Sapounopera said:

Since we are trying to talk about star billing on soaps...

Wasn't Mary Page Keller supposed to get star billing on Another World if she chose to stay with the show? 

I wonder what Victoria Wyndham thought of that. 

There is no way AW would have ever given Mary Page Keller star billing.  Wyndham and Watson were given special billing (top billing) in the closing credits, and that was included in both of their contracts. So the best AW might have offered Keller could have been third billing in the closing.  At the time, Connie Ford had third billing, but that was because of seniority, and not contractual.   Personally, I don't believe tptb at AW would have even seriously considered third billing for Keller.  

29 minutes ago, Neil Johnson said:

The brilliant Adam T. Ghani's posted this today. So, perhaps Beverlee herself was the source, right or wrong, and thus we should respect her wishes

23 minutes ago, Donna L. Bridges said:

That's Beverlee's "City Lights" interview. I thought I had posted the link to it here previously. Scott made it available to me & said that I could share it. He calls it her most candid interview. It is wonderful! I completely respect her & what she had her people fight for. Scott's seen the correction & agrees with it. And agrees as I have said that her billing is singular, distinct, different & better. If she was the source of the misinformation, I am sure it was unintentional. 

Of course it was unintentional.  But her statement should not go down in history as being correct, when it clearly is not.  She obviously worked hard for everything she got, but she was not the first daytime actor to receive star billing.  She was the last.  That's all I'm saying.  It doesn't mean I do not respect Beverlee.  

4 minutes ago, j swift said:

The sublime Beverlee McKinsey on fighting to get soap opera actors credited billing in the openings, which she secured for herself on the… | Instagram

 

The brilliant Adam T. Ghani's posted this today. So, perhaps Beverlee herself was the source, right or wrong, and thus we should respect her wishes

Well, Beverlee's statement about being the first to get star billing in the opening was absolutely incorrect.  I'm not going to agree with her mistake, just to be respectful.  Are you kidding?? 

8 minutes ago, Donna L. Bridges said:

Beginning June 27, 1966, the opening for the gothic soap opera Dark Shadows began with a visual of the words, “Starring Joan Bennett” before the title.

And it is my understanding that there was another version, "Starring Jonathan Frid". 

That's interesting.  I have never heard about that.  I do have all the DVDs, and there is no star billing in those openings that I have noticed. But anything is possible.  I would want to see proof, before I shared it as truth.    

27 minutes ago, Donna L. Bridges said:

"Star billing" and also "above-the-title" are terms for fans, sure, but also are terms that are used by agents negotiating & in movie & show lingo. And, I agree with you that they are not the same thing as the credit crawl. The crawl just comes up often when discussing the other one. But, we should clearly distinguish between them. I also agree with your statement that Beverlee McKinsey was the last actor to get star billing on a US soap and not the first. Rosemary Prinz, Dana Andrews, Macdonald Carey, actors on Dark Shadows, etc. all came before & no one has come since. Well phrased if spelling challenged. 

You probably realize, none of the actors on Dark Shadows ever got star billing in the opening.  Just wanted to clarify, so as not to confuse others who are reading this thread.  

3 hours ago, Donna L. Bridges said:

Yes, all of those & there are others.

Dark Shadows had versions with Jonathan Frid & others. 

NEVER TOO YOUNG has written, visual closing credits.

A 1953 YouTube video of SEARCH FOR TOMORROW shows opening, bumpers & closing which includes a written, visual closing credits.

And then many shows with stars highlighted in the opening crawl: In the Another World opening Victoria Wyndham was at the top of the crawl after Jacquie Courtney and George Reinholt left. Like Victoria Wyndham, Charita Bauer headed the crawl on GL till her passing. In the 60’s, Laurence Hugo headed the crawl as Mike Karr on The Edge of Night. When he left, Ann Flood headed the crawl until the end. On As the World Turns, Don MacLaughlin headed the crawl, then Helen Wagner. In 1977, Michael Storm headed the crawl as the most senior cast member on OLTL. 

I'm hoping to find even more. 

I am at a loss as to how to correct this on IMDb. It's just one sentence in TRIVIA. 

Well, I think there is a big difference between being literally called the star by the announcer in the show's opening, and being first in the closing credit crawl.  I don't see them as equivalent.  Sometimes the first in the closing crawl is more or less the star of the show.  But other times it just means that actor is the cast member with the most seniority.  And other times closing credits are done in alphabetical order, and at times there is no rhyme or reason at all.   I think when most soap fans use the term star billing, they are making reference to an actor being identified as the star in the show's opening.  And even though that is very rare, it has been done several times.  I'd submit that Beverlee McKenzie was the last actor to get star billing on a soap opera, not the first.   

1 hour ago, Donna L. Bridges said:

I want to further correct something that is wrong in both texts & fan lore & on her IMDb page, etc. about Beverlee McKinsey. This is the idea that she was the first to have star billing, which is not correct, although the billing she received for TEXAS is singular, distinct & better than any other.

This is one of several big errors in soap opera history, along with Erica Kane having the first abortion on daytime, and several others.   Rosemary Prinz had star billing in the opening on two different soaps in the 1970s -- All My Children and How to Survive a Marriage.  Dana Andrews had star billing in the opening of Bright Promise.  And I believe there is at least one other example of star billing in an opening, previous to Beverlee McKenzie.   

MacDonald Carey was the opening narrator on DOOL, and he mentioned his own name daily.  But I believe he only received true star billing on the premiere episode, where another announcer did the opening narration and said "starring MacDonald Carey."  

16 hours ago, Donna L. Bridges said:

AMC: Erica was there from the beginning, a native & presented from the start as a handful. Erica always had one story per year that she was the star of but the rest of the time she was in on everyone else's stuff just as a regular person, sorta. 

AW: Rachel was there from early days not the beginning & she regularly had starring roles in s/ls but also functioned as part of groups & had friendships, etc. She was a native. 

DAYS: Marlena came along pretty early but was not a native. She moved there. Her first identity was just as a doc & Mickey Horton was her first patient. BITD I don't think anyone would have predicted she'd become queen of the show. But Pat Falken Smith created another iconic romantic couple out of Roman & Marlena. Then when Stefano became obsessed with her, her status was sealed. 

GL: Reva was not a native & not there from early days either. Brought into town, paid, to do a dirty deed. Reva was never just a part of the gang. She always had her own stories. She did participate in stories of people in her sphere of influence, like family. She was with every Lewis man but Bill. They retconned her past so she was a child in the Lewis household but the Lewises weren't native themselves.

3 of 4 probably had guarantees of 4. Deidre doesn't. 

Carly at GH is probably the most like Reva. Hmm, Carly at ATWT maybe too. 

Did anyone ever notice that in almost all cases of "A Middle-Aged Woman Ate My Soap," the woman has been a former bad-girl?  AW - Rachel, AMC - Erica, GL - Reva, ATWT - Carly, GH - Carly, EON - Raven, etc??   Is this just a coincidence?  Of course there are a few exceptions, when a nice character eats a soap: DOOL - Marlena (and at times Hope), OLTL - Vicki (but Vicki really always was the leading lady from day-one. So I'm not sure she fits this mold), etc.  

Also, would others agree that this phenomenon has never happened on Y&R and B&B?  I'm curious how and why writers on those two shows seem to have avoided this trend.  At least so far.   

1 hour ago, Donna L. Bridges said:

AW: Rachel was there from early days not the beginning & she regularly had starring roles in s/ls but also functioned as part of groups & had friendships, etc. She was a native. 

Actually, Rachel was not a native.  She and Ada moved to Bay City from somewhere in the South, and they discussed their move briefly on camera.  Ada even spoke with a Southern accent for a few weeks when the characters premiered. I assume Connie Ford got sick of the accent and just dropped it.   

2 hours ago, antmunoz said:

Well, you could say the same of the GL sets I mentioned.  They were reused for other characters pretty randomly.  At least the Stewart set stayed in the family, since Susan’s daughters were biological Stewarts. 

Yes, that house stayed within the Lowell/Stewart family from day-one of the show, until it's final appearance, just a year or two before the cancellation.   At the time, the Lowell/Stewart set was the oldest set in daytime, and had been for years and years.  Far older than even the Horton house on DOOL.  

4 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

That butch haircut didn't help...

Did Jacquie get that haircut while she was still on OLTL?  I thought she just showed up on AW with that haircut upon her return.   It was certainly not a good look for Alice. 

5 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

I don't now remember why Pat and Bo broke up, but JC did not lose her leading-lady status on the show.

TPTB introduced a character named Adam Brewster and were obviously planning on making him a romantic interest for Pat.

But Pat's romance with Adam Brewster occurred around 1979, and her relationship with Bo took place several years later -- around 1982-83.