Mona Kane Croft

2 hours ago, Donna L. Bridges said:

Neil I posed this to a friend who is very knowledgeable about SFT & about organ music & composers, etc. and he said that to his knowledge the original SFT theme by Chet Kingsbury was never orchestrated. Hope it helps. 

Thank you!  I thought that might be the case, but wanted to see if anyone had more information.  Again, thanks.

Can anyone tell me why Heather uses the last name Stevens, when her father's last name is Williams?  I'm sure there must be some history to this, but I'm not aware of it.   Thanks!!

Does anyone remember if SFT's original opening theme was ever orchestrated?  All the YouTube videos I have seen have the organ version.  It's possible, I suppose, that SFT's second theme (When Tomorrow Comes) was the first to be orchestrated.  Does anyone know for sure?

16 hours ago, Jdee43 said:

Does anyone know the story behind Dana Andrew's participation in Bright Promise? He was the star of a lot of great movies from the 1940s. I always thought it odd for him to be picked to star in a soap opera, and for him to accept. From the late 50s to early 60s, he was doing TV, but then in the mid to late 60s, he went back to doing only movies.

On Bright Promise, was he actually playing a lead character, on every day, or was he more of a background character, showing up here and there?

In the beginning, Bright Promise also had Coleen Gray, another star of movies from the late 40s and 1950s. I don't think she ever played a starring role in a movie with Andrews, but she may have been in one with him. By the 60s, she was mainly doing TV. I would imagine the producers pairing Andrews and Gray, for old time movie sake. Is that what happened? It looks like Gray only lasted about a year on the show though. 

Hiring former movie-stars into major daytime roles seemed to be a priority of NBC in the mid to late-1960s.  NBC had hired MacDonald Carey on DOOL in 1965. And on Another World, Hugh Marlowe was hired as patriarch, Jim Matthews, around 1968.  Also on AW around the same time, film actress, Ann Sheridan, was cast as Kathryn Corning.   Adding to all this, Dana Andrews role on Bright Promise, one might assume there had been significant pressure from NBC for daytime production companies to reach out to aging movie stars as possible cast members.  Although there was some of this happening on all three networks at the time, it seems to have been a larger priority at NBC.  

13 minutes ago, denzo30 said:

True but if she knew that Molly never existed, then how would she know about Emma?  They do have records, not that many writers abide to the bible and they reinvent stuff but Swajeski wanted to create her own characters.  I think she did a decent job as kind of keeping the Frame name on the show for a few years with bringing Frankie on and Dean but she used the offspring from non legacy existing family members which made no sense. Seeing how close Dean and Frankie were, he really should have been an Ordway brother.  Wade, Sterling and I believe another.  We heard about them but never saw them.

I think Swajeski may have known about Emma because Emma was mentioned during the strike of 1988, when Swakeski was a scab writer.  I think they scabs were, to some degree, following Lemay's story projections during the strike. Lemay's notes may have included character names, but still must have been rather vague, because the scabs got many of the historical and character details wrong.  

2 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

Y&R 

The Chancellor set. Apart from the fact that it has shrunk considerably, that bulky cheap looking sofa and chair bug me. Something more elegant would help a lot.

I think the Chancellor set is still basically the same old set, but it has been re-oriented toward the foyer, rather than the old orientation toward the fireplace.  It makes the set look smaller, because the living room is narrower with this orientation.   I believe this new orientation was done when Jill Phelps was executive producer, and Kathryn was still alive.  I dislike this view of the set, because it is too similar to the layout Abbott house.  When Kathryn's house was oriented the other way, the layout of the two houses appeared less similar.   I wish they would change it back.   

32 minutes ago, j swift said:

I appreciate the lighter tones of the Y&R Newman Ranch, but is this supposed to be the same room, with dining room attached stage right?

It is like you lose the sense of the rest of the space

 

I agree.  And if they are not going to show the front door and foyer of the Newman Ranch, then they need to cast a housekeeper or butler to escort guests to the living room.  It's strange when Victor and/or Nikki are sitting in the living room, and guests just walk right in.  It's as if they just walked in the front door, through the house, and into the living room without even knocking.  With all the security at the Newman Ranch, that is just not believable.  A servant to escort and announce the guests would make more sense and be more believable.  

Does anyone know the age difference between Jacquie Courtney and Bibi Besch?  I've sometimes wondered if Bibi Besch would have been a good replacement for Courtney as Alice on AW.   She had a look similar to Courtney, and often wore her long hair in a similar style.  Besch wasn't just a "blonde actress", but she had demonstrated acting skill in daytime, and had played emotional material well. I can't imagine Besch would have been any worse than any of the other Courtney-replacements -- and she likely would have been better than most.   

And another question: Has anyone ever heard which other actresses auditioned for the role of Alice, when Susan Harney was cast?   I can imagine they auditioned dozens of actresses, many of whom were probably well known in daytime.    I'd love to see the list.  

4 hours ago, chrisml said:

Soaps seemed to like the new age/psychic thing. The character of Sandra Mills on Santa Barbara appeared a few months before Frankie Frame. Sandra could be the original for all of this. Someone at NBC obviously liked psychics because yrs later Celeste would show up on DAYS. 

I tend to dislike psychics on soaps if they are permanent characters.  I find that stretches believability too much for me.  But I'm okay with psychic characters, if they are temporary -- brought on the show for that purpose, and then written off when that function has been fulfilled.  My favorite soap opera psychic was Tante Helene from Search for Tomorrow, one of the Corringtons' creations in the late-70s. Tante Helene was quite over the top, but I found her believable because of the storyline, and because she was a temporary character.   I also found Sylvia Brown's appearance (playing herself) on Y&R about 10-15 years ago to be believable.  Again, mostly because it worked with the plot, and she was on the show briefly.   

1 hour ago, Donna L. Bridges said:

Well, I was told at the time that they were doing the New Age "wooh wooh" thing with Frankie because of that copycat business, in this case OLTL's Luna Moody. (Was her last name Moody?) Anyway the Susan Batten role with all those characteristics & that it was suggested to the writer that she do a lookalike, well I guess a seemalike. Personally I think that our soaps doing so much copycatting is a weakness but corporations tended to do copycatting on products at the highest levels, so they wouldn't have given one hoot for my opinion. 

Agreed.  Frankie was an obvious rip-off of Luna Moody.  

And I also agree, copycatting on soaps has led to the near demise of the entire genre.  That all seemed to begin in the early 1980s, when many soaps tried to copy (in one way or another) the success of General Hospital's Luke and Laura and over the top unbelievable plots.  Nobody wants to watch an afternoon of soap operas that are all nearly identical.  Before the 1980s, every soap had its own unique recognizable identity.  Thank God soaps were not copycatting one another in the 1960s -- otherwise, every soap would have had vampires, witches, and werewolves!   

6 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

So I've watching some early 1989 and I've come to Frankie's early episodes.  What a bitch..so unlikable.  I'm glad the writing and actress softened the character over time.

It did make me wonder why the show just didn't have her play Molly Ordway instead instead of creating a new character?  She had the same type of relationship with Emma that Molly did..and was kind of a troublemaker as well.  

Frankie's early time on AW is a good example of Donna Swajeski's inability to create engaging new characters.  Swajeski did a fairly good job of writing for existing characters, but the new characters she brought to the show were often burdened with cliched (at times cartoonish) characteristics.  For example, Frankie had the ESP nonsense; and Derek Dane had the "beauty and the beast" vibe.  Swajeski often added some characteristic to her creations that she believed, made her characters interesting and quirky.  But to me, those characteristics just made Swajeski's characters unbelievable and irritating. Later, as you mention, Alice Barrett softened Frankie and made her believable and likable.

And why didn't Swajeski just have Barrett play Molly Ordway?  Because she probably didn't even know Molly existed.  Obviously she knew almost nothing of the extended-Frame family history.  

33 minutes ago, Donna L. Bridges said:

For a long time I had a pertinent quote about the AW 90 minute show without a cite. I have connected it to its source now so I am recording it here & there. "Indeed, programmers at NBC, which led daytime in the mid-1970s but had become a weak third place by the late 1970s, basically admitted that they had stretched Another World to 90 minutes daily in 1979 because they couldn't come up with a better idea." p. xvi Hyatt, W. (1997). The Encyclopedia of Daytime Television. Billboard Books.

Thank you for finding the citation, Donna.   

On 9/7/2023 at 2:21 AM, vetsoapfan said:

@DRW50 I am sure that is NOT the Sally Stark from Love of Life.

I don't want to start and argument, but -- actually, I am sure it is Sally Stark from Love of Life.  It is definitely her, and she went on to a role on DOOL after leaving LOL. Perhaps you are thinking of the first actress to play Kate on LOL.  She and Sally Stark looked nothing alike.  There are probably other photos of Sally Stark online, if anyone wants to compare.  But I recognize her, and even her voice is the same.  This is the actress who was playing Kate, when I watched Love of Life.  Again, not trying to be difficult, but I'm sure it is her.  

What's up with all the flash-backs?  Jeeze-Louise!. For the past couple of weeks, it seems there are four or five flash-backs per episode.  Typically there might be one a month.   I can say for sure, the audience does not need flashbacks to put current scenes into context.  We aren't children, and we don't need to be spoon-fed the story.  Does anyone know why this is happening?  It's ridiculous.  Maybe just lazy writing??  

What year was Harding Lemay head-writer at SFT?  Wasn't it around 1981?  So I assume Travis was still alive, and the Kendalls had not yet arrived in Henderson.  Is that correct?  I've read one of Lemay's plans was to bring Mignon back to the canvas. That makes sense, because she was the type of neurotic controlling character that Lemay loved to write.  It would be interesting to know what other plans Lemay had for SFT.  He liked to write for troubled characters who, to a large degree, created their own problems. He also enjoyed writing for characters who had historical conflicts that he could exploit for future plots/scenes (Jo and Stephanie, for example) For those of you who were watching, did you see any sense of Lemay taking the show in that direction?  

1 hour ago, j swift said:

OK, I need a refresher because I'm getting my Sentells and Kendalls mixed up.

So, with the Sentells - the General is Gen 1, then Rusty Sr is Gen 2, and Travis aka Rusty Jr is Gen 3, although Travis was really Martin's son - correct

Then, I think I've confused bitchy ex-wives.  Mignon is Rusty Sr.'s ex-wife, so who was Lloyd Kendall's ex-wife?  And wasn't one of his sons actually fathered by another man?

I thought Mignon and Martin were brother and sister.  Is that incorrect?  And was the General Mignon's father or Rusty Sr's father?  Did any of the Sentells or Tourners ever meet the Kendalls?  Other than Jo and Liza, I mean.   

Here's another question about Laura: I've never watched the entirety of Laura's first on-screen visit in 1967. But what I have seen seems like a rather bare-bones storyline without a lot of details about the origin of the Phoenix creature. But her visit in 1897 is full of interesting details and possible back-story (although she still is not fully explained). So were the Egyptian elements of the plot in 1897 also part of Laura's 1967 visit? Or did the writers add the Egyptian stuff in 1897 to further flesh-out the Phoenix legend?

3 hours ago, Joseph said:

In A Way, my reading of it is that the Phoenix reincarnated in a different body but had the same soul who retained the memories of all her Lifetimes that was reactivated once her Mortal body was destroyed by a Fire  

Interesting.  But she was in the same body. Wasn't she? 

If Laura Collins was Jamison's mother, and Jamison was Roger's father -- does that mean Roger married his own grandmother? I had never thought about that until a few days ago.

1 hour ago, Soaplovers said:

It seemed like Irna, and to a lesser extent Bill Bell, were attempting to take all of the tropes used in soaps and add more controversial elements (or for 1964 standards).

Problem was that the 1964 characters were too trope..or copies of previous Irna characters without anything new.

Mary Matthews was a warmer Nancy Hughes.

Granny Matthew's was a female version of Papa Bauer and Hughes.

Janet Matthews was a less developed Edith Hughes.

Susan and Pat Matthew's were variations of Penny Hughes  and Ellen Stewart.

Liz Matthews was a colder Nancy Hughes/Claire Lowell combination.

Alice Matthew and Russ Matthews seemed like a young siblings that were the greek chorus.

I think had the bible been followed more..it would have been an interesting show..but Irna's neurosis and P & G being so conservative hurt the show in the early months as it struggled to find its footing.

Nixon helped focus the show by using some of her AMC bible..and also bringing out the psychological elements Irna was intending.  She created Lahoma, Rachel, Sam, Ada, and helped develop Missy...which was the have not section of the show to play off the Matthews/Randolphs/Curtains as the haves.

And not only did start Alice/Steve/Rachel...she made Bill/Missy popular... and depend Lee's character into a tragic anti heroine in the Sam/Lahoma/Lee triangle.

Interesting observations.  And then a year later, NBC asked Irna to do it again, and create another ATWT clone - Days of Our Lives.  DOOL also had many parallel archetypes, and also had a very slow start before gaining popularity.  

1 hour ago, Donna L. Bridges said:

Found out earlier this year that Agnes wrote for The Brighter Day but her scripts never got used because the show was canceled before they got to them. However, in those scripts were the characters & mother/daughter relationship that was Rachel & Ada in AW. So, the first iteration of the troublesome daughter with the put upon mother is "LikeRachel" & "LikeAda" in TBD before 1962. (Then AW, then AMC & then LOV)

Does anyone know who was head-writing As the World Turns when Lisa and Alma were created?  Could Agnes Nixon have been involved?  I've always believed Lisa and Alma (in their early years) to be quite similar to Rachel/Ada and Erica/Mona.  Any possibility Nixon might have created Lisa/Alma?  

25 minutes ago, Xanthe said:

And @vetsoapfan was able to confirm that the episode had happened

Do you feel this was solidly confirmed?  Are you aware one of the existing scenes from that day's episode actually includes Pat, Dennis, and Louise (along with Alice and Steve)?  So to me, that seems to confirm the episode was not a two character episode.  Unless I'm misunderstanding something.  

24 minutes ago, Xanthe said:

The AWHP details in the daily synopses for 1979 seem to support the March 6 date with the caveat that apparently the script for March 6 was missing from the Bowling Green collection. But John seems to be alive at the end of March 5 and to have had scenes on March 6th.

http://www.anotherworldhomepage.com/aw1979d.html

It's odd the AWHP says they had to use flashbacks for their partial March 6 synopsis, because isn't the entire episode available for viewing on YouTube?  At least I believe it used to be on Youtube.  

17 minutes ago, Donna L. Bridges said:

Oh, yes, I checked & it was March 5th, 1979 AW first 90 minute show & death of John Randolph: GL Roger raped Holly: OLTL Karen Wolek took the stand. It was the next day that she broke down under cross & revealed her life as a prostitute. That was a big week for soaps. 

It's not a very important issue, I suppose.  But the Another World Home Page lists John Randolph's death as March 6.  I've also always heard he died on the second 90-minute episode, which would be March 6.  The first 90-minute episode was March 5. Aside from the AWHP, I don't know any other way to verify this.  

Wow. This all makes Jim and Mary's branch of the family sound much more working-class than things ever seemed on the actual show.   Gives some insight into Irna Phillips' and Bill Bell's original vision of the family. And it makes Liz's upper middle-class dislike of Jim and Mary much more understandable.  Frankly, it sounds exactly like something Harding Lemay might have created.   How ironic, right??  

11 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

I guess none of those plans for Russ went through either. Doesn't even sound like the same character.

Did Ann Fuller, the social worker character, exist on the show?

Yes, Ann Fuller appeared on the show.  I believe she was Missy's social worker early in the story.  

What were the original plans for Russ?  Russ went away as an adolescent, and Agnes Nixon brought him back a few years later as a young doctor, played by Sam Groom.