Mona Kane Croft

2 hours ago, te. said:

Oh yeah, the pacing of the show is insane - they introduced a character who was going to kill herself and possibly be murdered by Jean Paul, then quickly moves into the Desmond Mansion via blackmail, is revealed to be a witch and then killed off. It all happens in ten or so episodes. There's really not room for a lot of character development, it's a shame that the last 65 episodes aren't available on YouTube (I've only found bootleg dvds via a sketchy site, but I'm not sure I want to spend 60+ dollars on those episodes) as Lemay would come in around episode 150 or so.

Are you saying Lemay's episodes are not generally available?  I did not know that.   Approximately how many episode did Lemay write for SP?  

1 hour ago, DeliaIrisFan said:

Now, of course, the real fun would occur if Max had acted exactly as Stefano did. Imagine him being drawn to Maeve!

Are you suggesting Maeve and Julie were counterparts on their respective shows?  I'd say Maeve was the counterpart to Alice Horton, not Julie.  Alice and Maeve were both matriarchs of large families (and matriarchs to their entire shows).  Julie was the female romantic lead of DOOL at that point.  Marlena did not take over that role until at least 1983 -- and even then, she had to share the "title" with grown-up Hope.   

It's hard to imagine Harding Lemay writing a soap like Strange Paradise.  Knowing how Lemay's writing style was completely character-driven and nearly plotless -- how could he write a plot-heavy show like SP or DS?   He must have had to literally force himself to write strong plots for SP.  

13 minutes ago, amybrickwallace said:

 

So ABC had a Sonny Corinthos in the 1980s?

Max was less like Sonny Corinthos, and more like Stefano Dimera.  A Euro-trash mobster with 9-lives.  Far too unrealistic for a fairly believable soap like Ryan's Hope.  But Labine was probably under tremendous pressure from ABC to add a mustache-twirling super-villain to the show.  I honestly believe Max was originally planned to be a relatively temporary character, and his daughter Jacquline was slated to be a long-term villainess.  But Max had chemistry with Siobhan (the actors, I mean), so they more-or-less ditched Jacquline, and kept Max.      

25 minutes ago, te. said:

 

Looking at it more closely, it wasn't. The movie was shot in Dallas and the original Peyton Place set was at 20th Century Fox studios. In the movie it's clearly not a set, so I assume they just found a square that looked similar. Here's a contemporary shot of the OG set:

 

By "movie", I assume you mean Next Generation.  And it was shot in Dallas?  Wow, I had no idea.  It really looked like a back-lot.  

14 hours ago, te. said:

 

It did look like the same square, but the interiors were entirely different.

Thanks.  I thought it might be the same square, but wasn't sure.  And since it was a one-time movie, it's possible even the interiors were shot on location in real houses -- rather than building all those sets for one use. So that may be why they didn't resemble the original sets. 

The first season (5 episodes) of Dallas were all shot in real locations around Dallas, even the interiors.  They didn't build the sets in LA until the second season.  

8 minutes ago, te. said:

I've started watching this since I'm finished with Peyton Place and it feels like an appropriate companion piece to Dark Shadows. Already in the second episode there's an inconsistency with when Jaques was born - in the first episode he's born in 1760 and died in 1789, then in the second episode that's suddenly changed to 1660 and 1689. I'm not sure if it was originally a mistake by the set designers or if they just changed their minds and decided to pull him back a 100 years randomly.

 

Too bad "only" the first 130 episodes seem to be online and the last 13 week arc isn't. I wonder if it'll ever be reuploaded to YouTube again? The first 130 episodes have been up for almost 10 years now.

I wonder if it's possible the actor just got the lines wrong in the first episode. I watched the first few episodes years ago, but didn't catch the birth year inconsistency.   If I'm not mistaken, doesn't the show suddenly change locations at some point in the storyline?  From one mansion to a completely different mansion in a different town?   Very few soaps have changed locations.  Guidling Light and Love of Life are the only others I am aware of.   

Does anyone know if the exteriors in The Next Generation were shot on the same backlot as the original primetime PP series? And were any of the interior sets based on the original designs?  or at least similar to their counter-parts on the original series?   

37 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

 

Thanks. 

 

It's all just ridiculous. Why they don't want to at least try to get some money out of these properties makes no sense to me. 

Its possible the small networks (like RetroTV) are able to pay so little for programming that it would not be worth the effort and expense involved for the production companies to syndicate the old soaps.   Contracts (depending on the age of the episodes) might require residual payments to actors, directors, writers, set designers, etc.  Plus there are the expenses connected with preparing the old episodes for broadcast on today's technology.  I know many of these sub-networks (like RetroTV) pay very little for their programming.  That's one of the reason Retro airs so much material that is in the public domain.   If the production companies cannot make a substantial profit, they likely are not going to invest in syndicating their old soaps.   

11 hours ago, StevieM said:

Evan Bates became Evan Frame.

Evan's name change was a weird one, because Frame was his mother's last name.  He was already using a variation of his father's last name -- Basttis.  Apparently Evan had originally shortened his last name from Battiis to Bates, as a professional name, or in order to conceal his identity.  I've never know anyone in real life who stopped using their father's last name, and changed to using their mother's last name.   That's bizarre.  

I think the writers changed it to Frame because they thought the audience was too stupid to remember Evan was a member of the Frame family.   That sort of thing is insulting to the audience, and makes the show less believable.  

13 minutes ago, watson71 said:

Jason Frame was supposed to have two daughters.  I think it got lost in the change of writers from Sheri Anderson to Harding Lemay with the writer's strike thrown in too.  I suspect Harding Lemay changed Jason's two daughters into the return of Sharlene and Josie to Bay City.

 

There was also a change in executive producer at this time from John Whitesell to Michael Laibson in March 1988.

Harding Lemay did not contradict that Jason had daughters.  But he may not have had the inclination to bring them to town.  Or maybe he planned to, but didn't have time in his two months as official head writer.   Donna Swajeski still could have added them to the cast, but clearly chose not to.  But I will say -- there were probably enough Frames in town.  Especially after Evan Bates admitted to being Janice's son.  

5 hours ago, j swift said:

Finally, a nitpick that I have with all return-from-the-dead stories, just once I would like to see a soap play out the beats of how one re-establishes their life after returning from the dead. 

I hate return from the dead plots, but the most believable return was that of Bill Bauer on Guiding Light.  I remember scenes in which Bert Bauer was being forced to return Bill's life insurance payment, and what a financial problem that was for her -- especially since they did not plan to live as a married couple again, and Bert was still ostensibly living as a widow.  

3 hours ago, StevieM said:

I think Alexander made the best of what she was given, but the show really failed to capitalize on her appeal.

In my opinion, Denise Alexander should never have played Mary at all.  She should have been cast as the returning Melissa Matthews -- daughter-in-law of Liz.  Missy could have returned with her son.  The natural conflict between Melissa and Liz would have been wonderful, and far more interesting than some unbelievable return-from-the-dead plot, and a brand new character nobody really cared about.   

On 12/5/2020 at 1:10 PM, Xanthe said:

Alice should have had a strong story of her own. Plus, she was given a hideous/butch haircut and dressed in ugly mannish clothes that were inappropriate.

I don't often comment on an actor's appearance, but that haircut was all wrong for Alice's return.   The audience (and Alice's loyal fans) had been through ten-years of Alice-replacements -- a few of which were borderline terrible.   So when Jacquie Courtney returned, the audience wanted the real Alice.  And the real Alice had long blonde hair.  Alice's opening scene with the "butch haircut and mannish clothes" was a jolt to the viewers, and turned me off immediately.   If Jacquie wanted to cut her hair, she should have waited a couple of months -- after she had settled back into the role.  

I realize TPTB were trying to portray Alice as a stronger woman.  But Alice had always been strong -- at least when Courtney was playing her.  Alice's only weakness had been her reaction to Steve and Rachel's shenanigans -- which almost drove her over the edge.  But otherwise, Alice was a very strong character -- as a nurse, with her other family members, with Sally, etc.   But the 1985 Super-Alice seemed artificial, and that was a turn-off to the long-term viewers.   So that, along with her lack of strong story and lack of a major romance all contributed to the failure of Courtney's return.   Too bad, because it so easily could have worked.   

10 hours ago, gimmetoo said:

Would like to hear more about Jon Hensley's stint on OLTL.  Anyone ?

I don't even remember the character's name, but he was one of a group of teenagers (which included Cassie, Rob, one of the O'Neil sisters, and a couple of other teens) who had found a cabin in the woods -- or were staying at a cabin, or planning to stay at a cabin...  LOL.  Anyway -- Ivan Kipling (at the time, OLTL's version of Stefano Dimera) was skulking around the forest, planning to do something to them. It seemed to be the beginnings of an important storyline, then the entire plot was just dropped.  As I mentioned in a couple of previous posts, I can't remember if Ivan Kipling or Jon Hensley's character were even written off, or if they just stopped appearing.   I don't believe there was any resolution to the "cabin plot" at all.  I think it was all just dropped without mention, and the show moved on to other things.  And if my memory is correct, this was the final time Ivan Kipling appeared on the show, or was ever mentioned.    If I am wrong about any of this, I hope someone will correct me.   

15 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

JC was only 38 when she returned. 

Are you sure that age is correct?  George Reinhold was 36, when he was fired from AW in 1975.  That would make a big age difference between GR and JC -- eight years, it seems.  I'd always assumed they were around the same age.   You may be correct, but I'm surprised she was that young.   

10 minutes ago, Xanthe said:

 

Speaking of hair, I remember being extremely disappointed in Rachel's makeover in 1986 when the return of Mitch had made her peevish and discontented and she went to a famous hairstylist. I hated that ultra-straight look. 

I loved Victoria Wyndham. But over the years, she had some of the most terrible hairstyles (mostly curly perms) of any soap star.  They didn't do that to Susan Lucci, Erica Slezak, or Kathryn Hays.  Sometimes I look at old photos and videos of VW, and I'm almost embarrassed for her.  Sadly, it was almost as if somebody was experimenting with her hair.   

5 hours ago, Khan said:

A triangle involving Mac, Alice and Steve will never make sense to me.

I wasn't crazy about seeing Alice with Mac (it seemed too predictable), but they had to attach her to the show's leading man in order to raise the stakes of Steve's return.  It Alice had been engaged to a less important male character, the break-up and her return to Steve wouldn't have had any real consequence, and would have been a "B" storyline.  It really needed to be the "A" storyline.   

1 hour ago, Jagger1966 said:

Regarding the Ivan Kipling storyline, the other girl living in the house with Cassie, Rob, Danny, ect. was Annie Barnes who was played by Rebecca Schaeffer, the young actress who later starred on My Sister Sam and was murdered by an obsessed fan in 1989.  Annie and Danny left town together in the fall of 1985.  When he returned the following year I don't believe he ever mentioned Annie again.  I also remember Giulietta, although I don't remember how she was written off the show.

What happened to Ivan Kipling?  Did he just stop appearing without explanation?  He was obviously up to something with those kids, but it all just seemed to stop without mention.  And was John Hensley's character written off, or did he just disappear?  

1 minute ago, soapfave06 said:

There used to be scenes available on YouTube where Carla says goodbye to Ed on a dinner date, saying that she and Sadie were leaving town. They share a run in with Dorian but not sure if she says goodbye to Dorian. 

Are you sure that isn't from the first time Carla left town?  I don't know what year it was, but I believe the actress was fired two times.  

Carla had become an attorney very quickly, and it didn't really make sense. I think they made her a lawyer because they were not interested in writing any personal storylines for her.  So at least she could get some airtime as a lawyer.  Then wasn't she in the middle of a murder trial (or some kind of trial), when she suddenly had to leave town, and another lawyer replaced her?  If I recall correctly, she didn't even have any good-byes with the other characters -- she was just gone.  I thought it was odd they didn't at least wait until the end of the trial.  Am I right about all this?  It's been 35 years. LOL.

45 minutes ago, soapfave06 said:

Kind of disappointing Sam Hall and Henry Slesar did not have much going on in their tenure. 

 

Did anyone see any lost potential story wise in 82-85 before Rauch reset the show?

Wasn't there a dropped storyline that included Ivan Kipling and a group of teenagers?  I remember Jon Hensley was part of that group, and also one or two of the McNeil sisters.   Although I was never a fan of Ivan Kipling (OLTL did not need its own version of Stefano Dimera), I was sort of into this storyline.  Then, if I'm not mistaken,  it was dropped with absolutely no explanation or wrap-up.   

48 minutes ago, vetsoapfan said:

 

I don't remember anyone mentioning Uncle Dru that year either. The last reference to him I recall was shortly after he was written out, and Mary Matthews said she had received a postcard from him which was on the mantel.

He was definitely mentioned sometime between '73 and '75.  I was watching, and I believe it was Pat who brought up his name to either Mary or Alice.   So it is possible the memory I have is the mention in '75 that was listed by the AWHP.  Mike did tell me the information was found by reading scripts.  But he was not aware of any details.   Typically, they note things like this in the daily synopsis, but not this time.  That makes me wonder how they even remembered it, when they posted it.   

And a correction -- the date listed on the AWHP is May 9, 1975.  I mentioned May 19 in my earlier post.  

Here's a question for AW old-timers:  A couple of weeks ago, there was some update info from the Another World Homepage saying they had discovered the final mention of Mitchell Dru was May 19, 1975.  But when I looked at the synopsis for that day, there was no information about that (as there usually is, for historical facts such as this one).  So, does anyone know the context of Dru being mentioned?  What was the scene?, the characters who were talking about him?, what did they say?, etc.  I asked Mike about it, and he said he didn't remember -- which is unusual, because he and Eddie almost always document information like this in detail.   

I watched AW through the entire Lemay era, and recall a mention of Dru sometime around 1973-75, so I'm wondering if this is the same one I remember.    

17 minutes ago, Jonathan said:

 

I remember when ABC came out with those VHS documentary shorts in the 1990s (All My Children: Daytime's Greatest Weddings, All My Children: Behind the Scenes, etc.) there was an article in one of the soap magazines about how ABC had to get permission from all the actors who were featured in those old clips.  It was, to say the least a huge undertaking on their part.  I imagine those original agreements did not cover special projects or repeat episodes.  These days, I'm sure current contracts that actors sign cover everything under the sun so that the network has more control over how footage is used in the future.

I believe you are correct that the old contracts did not include special projects like home video VHS or dvds.  So actors must agree to allow their scenes to be released for those purposes, or the project cannot go forward.  But I'm fairly certain that reruns and flashbacks were included in the old agreements, and the producers do not need to get permission from the actors for those purposes, although they do have to be paid.   

Regarding VHS releases, Beverlee McKenzie famously refused permission to use her scenes in Guiding Light's Roger Thorpe video release.  So that video does not include any of Roger's and Alex's famous fights.   At least that is what was reported at the time.  

On the other hand, I do not know if Dark Shadows producers had to get permission from all their actors before releasing the entire series on home video.   If they did, it seems likely that at least one of them would have refused, and that does not seem to have occurred.