Mona Kane Croft

37 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

 

Thanks. 

 

It's all just ridiculous. Why they don't want to at least try to get some money out of these properties makes no sense to me. 

Its possible the small networks (like RetroTV) are able to pay so little for programming that it would not be worth the effort and expense involved for the production companies to syndicate the old soaps.   Contracts (depending on the age of the episodes) might require residual payments to actors, directors, writers, set designers, etc.  Plus there are the expenses connected with preparing the old episodes for broadcast on today's technology.  I know many of these sub-networks (like RetroTV) pay very little for their programming.  That's one of the reason Retro airs so much material that is in the public domain.   If the production companies cannot make a substantial profit, they likely are not going to invest in syndicating their old soaps.   

11 hours ago, StevieM said:

Evan Bates became Evan Frame.

Evan's name change was a weird one, because Frame was his mother's last name.  He was already using a variation of his father's last name -- Basttis.  Apparently Evan had originally shortened his last name from Battiis to Bates, as a professional name, or in order to conceal his identity.  I've never know anyone in real life who stopped using their father's last name, and changed to using their mother's last name.   That's bizarre.  

I think the writers changed it to Frame because they thought the audience was too stupid to remember Evan was a member of the Frame family.   That sort of thing is insulting to the audience, and makes the show less believable.  

13 minutes ago, watson71 said:

Jason Frame was supposed to have two daughters.  I think it got lost in the change of writers from Sheri Anderson to Harding Lemay with the writer's strike thrown in too.  I suspect Harding Lemay changed Jason's two daughters into the return of Sharlene and Josie to Bay City.

 

There was also a change in executive producer at this time from John Whitesell to Michael Laibson in March 1988.

Harding Lemay did not contradict that Jason had daughters.  But he may not have had the inclination to bring them to town.  Or maybe he planned to, but didn't have time in his two months as official head writer.   Donna Swajeski still could have added them to the cast, but clearly chose not to.  But I will say -- there were probably enough Frames in town.  Especially after Evan Bates admitted to being Janice's son.  

5 hours ago, j swift said:

Finally, a nitpick that I have with all return-from-the-dead stories, just once I would like to see a soap play out the beats of how one re-establishes their life after returning from the dead. 

I hate return from the dead plots, but the most believable return was that of Bill Bauer on Guiding Light.  I remember scenes in which Bert Bauer was being forced to return Bill's life insurance payment, and what a financial problem that was for her -- especially since they did not plan to live as a married couple again, and Bert was still ostensibly living as a widow.  

3 hours ago, StevieM said:

I think Alexander made the best of what she was given, but the show really failed to capitalize on her appeal.

In my opinion, Denise Alexander should never have played Mary at all.  She should have been cast as the returning Melissa Matthews -- daughter-in-law of Liz.  Missy could have returned with her son.  The natural conflict between Melissa and Liz would have been wonderful, and far more interesting than some unbelievable return-from-the-dead plot, and a brand new character nobody really cared about.   

On 12/5/2020 at 1:10 PM, Xanthe said:

Alice should have had a strong story of her own. Plus, she was given a hideous/butch haircut and dressed in ugly mannish clothes that were inappropriate.

I don't often comment on an actor's appearance, but that haircut was all wrong for Alice's return.   The audience (and Alice's loyal fans) had been through ten-years of Alice-replacements -- a few of which were borderline terrible.   So when Jacquie Courtney returned, the audience wanted the real Alice.  And the real Alice had long blonde hair.  Alice's opening scene with the "butch haircut and mannish clothes" was a jolt to the viewers, and turned me off immediately.   If Jacquie wanted to cut her hair, she should have waited a couple of months -- after she had settled back into the role.  

I realize TPTB were trying to portray Alice as a stronger woman.  But Alice had always been strong -- at least when Courtney was playing her.  Alice's only weakness had been her reaction to Steve and Rachel's shenanigans -- which almost drove her over the edge.  But otherwise, Alice was a very strong character -- as a nurse, with her other family members, with Sally, etc.   But the 1985 Super-Alice seemed artificial, and that was a turn-off to the long-term viewers.   So that, along with her lack of strong story and lack of a major romance all contributed to the failure of Courtney's return.   Too bad, because it so easily could have worked.   

10 hours ago, gimmetoo said:

Would like to hear more about Jon Hensley's stint on OLTL.  Anyone ?

I don't even remember the character's name, but he was one of a group of teenagers (which included Cassie, Rob, one of the O'Neil sisters, and a couple of other teens) who had found a cabin in the woods -- or were staying at a cabin, or planning to stay at a cabin...  LOL.  Anyway -- Ivan Kipling (at the time, OLTL's version of Stefano Dimera) was skulking around the forest, planning to do something to them. It seemed to be the beginnings of an important storyline, then the entire plot was just dropped.  As I mentioned in a couple of previous posts, I can't remember if Ivan Kipling or Jon Hensley's character were even written off, or if they just stopped appearing.   I don't believe there was any resolution to the "cabin plot" at all.  I think it was all just dropped without mention, and the show moved on to other things.  And if my memory is correct, this was the final time Ivan Kipling appeared on the show, or was ever mentioned.    If I am wrong about any of this, I hope someone will correct me.   

15 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

JC was only 38 when she returned. 

Are you sure that age is correct?  George Reinhold was 36, when he was fired from AW in 1975.  That would make a big age difference between GR and JC -- eight years, it seems.  I'd always assumed they were around the same age.   You may be correct, but I'm surprised she was that young.   

10 minutes ago, Xanthe said:

 

Speaking of hair, I remember being extremely disappointed in Rachel's makeover in 1986 when the return of Mitch had made her peevish and discontented and she went to a famous hairstylist. I hated that ultra-straight look. 

I loved Victoria Wyndham. But over the years, she had some of the most terrible hairstyles (mostly curly perms) of any soap star.  They didn't do that to Susan Lucci, Erica Slezak, or Kathryn Hays.  Sometimes I look at old photos and videos of VW, and I'm almost embarrassed for her.  Sadly, it was almost as if somebody was experimenting with her hair.   

5 hours ago, Khan said:

A triangle involving Mac, Alice and Steve will never make sense to me.

I wasn't crazy about seeing Alice with Mac (it seemed too predictable), but they had to attach her to the show's leading man in order to raise the stakes of Steve's return.  It Alice had been engaged to a less important male character, the break-up and her return to Steve wouldn't have had any real consequence, and would have been a "B" storyline.  It really needed to be the "A" storyline.   

1 hour ago, Jagger1966 said:

Regarding the Ivan Kipling storyline, the other girl living in the house with Cassie, Rob, Danny, ect. was Annie Barnes who was played by Rebecca Schaeffer, the young actress who later starred on My Sister Sam and was murdered by an obsessed fan in 1989.  Annie and Danny left town together in the fall of 1985.  When he returned the following year I don't believe he ever mentioned Annie again.  I also remember Giulietta, although I don't remember how she was written off the show.

What happened to Ivan Kipling?  Did he just stop appearing without explanation?  He was obviously up to something with those kids, but it all just seemed to stop without mention.  And was John Hensley's character written off, or did he just disappear?  

1 minute ago, soapfave06 said:

There used to be scenes available on YouTube where Carla says goodbye to Ed on a dinner date, saying that she and Sadie were leaving town. They share a run in with Dorian but not sure if she says goodbye to Dorian. 

Are you sure that isn't from the first time Carla left town?  I don't know what year it was, but I believe the actress was fired two times.  

Carla had become an attorney very quickly, and it didn't really make sense. I think they made her a lawyer because they were not interested in writing any personal storylines for her.  So at least she could get some airtime as a lawyer.  Then wasn't she in the middle of a murder trial (or some kind of trial), when she suddenly had to leave town, and another lawyer replaced her?  If I recall correctly, she didn't even have any good-byes with the other characters -- she was just gone.  I thought it was odd they didn't at least wait until the end of the trial.  Am I right about all this?  It's been 35 years. LOL.

45 minutes ago, soapfave06 said:

Kind of disappointing Sam Hall and Henry Slesar did not have much going on in their tenure. 

 

Did anyone see any lost potential story wise in 82-85 before Rauch reset the show?

Wasn't there a dropped storyline that included Ivan Kipling and a group of teenagers?  I remember Jon Hensley was part of that group, and also one or two of the McNeil sisters.   Although I was never a fan of Ivan Kipling (OLTL did not need its own version of Stefano Dimera), I was sort of into this storyline.  Then, if I'm not mistaken,  it was dropped with absolutely no explanation or wrap-up.   

48 minutes ago, vetsoapfan said:

 

I don't remember anyone mentioning Uncle Dru that year either. The last reference to him I recall was shortly after he was written out, and Mary Matthews said she had received a postcard from him which was on the mantel.

He was definitely mentioned sometime between '73 and '75.  I was watching, and I believe it was Pat who brought up his name to either Mary or Alice.   So it is possible the memory I have is the mention in '75 that was listed by the AWHP.  Mike did tell me the information was found by reading scripts.  But he was not aware of any details.   Typically, they note things like this in the daily synopsis, but not this time.  That makes me wonder how they even remembered it, when they posted it.   

And a correction -- the date listed on the AWHP is May 9, 1975.  I mentioned May 19 in my earlier post.  

Here's a question for AW old-timers:  A couple of weeks ago, there was some update info from the Another World Homepage saying they had discovered the final mention of Mitchell Dru was May 19, 1975.  But when I looked at the synopsis for that day, there was no information about that (as there usually is, for historical facts such as this one).  So, does anyone know the context of Dru being mentioned?  What was the scene?, the characters who were talking about him?, what did they say?, etc.  I asked Mike about it, and he said he didn't remember -- which is unusual, because he and Eddie almost always document information like this in detail.   

I watched AW through the entire Lemay era, and recall a mention of Dru sometime around 1973-75, so I'm wondering if this is the same one I remember.    

17 minutes ago, Jonathan said:

 

I remember when ABC came out with those VHS documentary shorts in the 1990s (All My Children: Daytime's Greatest Weddings, All My Children: Behind the Scenes, etc.) there was an article in one of the soap magazines about how ABC had to get permission from all the actors who were featured in those old clips.  It was, to say the least a huge undertaking on their part.  I imagine those original agreements did not cover special projects or repeat episodes.  These days, I'm sure current contracts that actors sign cover everything under the sun so that the network has more control over how footage is used in the future.

I believe you are correct that the old contracts did not include special projects like home video VHS or dvds.  So actors must agree to allow their scenes to be released for those purposes, or the project cannot go forward.  But I'm fairly certain that reruns and flashbacks were included in the old agreements, and the producers do not need to get permission from the actors for those purposes, although they do have to be paid.   

Regarding VHS releases, Beverlee McKenzie famously refused permission to use her scenes in Guiding Light's Roger Thorpe video release.  So that video does not include any of Roger's and Alex's famous fights.   At least that is what was reported at the time.  

On the other hand, I do not know if Dark Shadows producers had to get permission from all their actors before releasing the entire series on home video.   If they did, it seems likely that at least one of them would have refused, and that does not seem to have occurred.   

3 minutes ago, ironlion said:

Wondering this too. I was sitting there thinking, show us don't tell us. 

I don't think they need to get the rights, because ABC already owns the show.  But I'm fairly certain they have to pay any actor who appears in flashbacks.  Still, I would think those payments would be rather insignificant. 

16 minutes ago, danfling said:

I have been thinking for a number of years about the absences of some of the Dark Shadows stars, and I wonder if some of the stars we think of as stars of Dark Shadows actually were working on the show without formal contracts.

 

These are the performers that I think were under contract:   Joan Bennett, Alexandra Moltke, Nancy Barrett, Joel Crothers, Mitchell Ryan, Thayer David (later in his run), Grayson Hall, Jonathan Frid, John Karlen (after he was cast as Carl Collins), Katheryn Leigh Scott, Kate Jackson, Donald Briscoe, Christopher Pennock, Craig Slocum

 

 

I am speculating that these performers did not have contracts:  Clarice Blackburn, Dennis Patrick, Jerry Lacy, Conard Fowlkes, Hugh Franklin, Diana Millay (or maybe she had one for a short time), Donna Wandrey,,Terry Crawford Humbert Allen Astredo, Elizabeth Eis, Dennis Patrick, Christpher Berneau, Virginia Vestoff, Gene Lindsey, James Storm, Addison Powell

 

Diana Millay, John LaSalle, and Robert Gerringer may have had shorter contracts.

 

These are performers that I am not sure about:  Louis Edmonds, Michael Stroka, Marie Wallace, Keith Prentiss, David Ford (probably had one, but I am not sure), Denise Nickerson

 

I know that Dennis Patrick said that he did not have one on any of the soap operas he appeared (Dark Shadows, Somerset, The Secret Storm).   I could also tell from some of Lara Parker's comments on The Tonight Show that she did not know when she was being broght back to the show.   (I think that she must have signed a contract around the time that she and Sky Rumson married.)  Michael Stroka's contract may have expired.  Clarice Blackburn and Jerry Lacy kept appearing on other shows but returning to Dark Shadows, so I do not think that they had contracts.

 

I may be all wrong about this, but I think that many of the performers had only verbal agreements to appear.

I believe you are correct.  I would even go further to suggest some of the actors you list as having contracts, likely did not.  I doubt Briscoe, Karlen, or Pennock had contracts.  And although Joan Bennett almost certainly was on contract, her guarantees of episodes must have been extremely low, considering she was often gone for weeks at a time.  Maybe Edmonds also had a contract with very low guarantees. 

As you speculated, perhaps some of the other actors had short-term contracts -- maybe 4-months or 6-months.  But I think many/most of the actors on DS probably had no contracts at all.  Maybe they just had a verbal agreement not to work on any other shows, while they were appearing on DS.  I don't remember any other soap operas of the era that had such a merry-go-round of actors, some of whom were gone for weeks or months before returning.    

2 hours ago, robbwolff said:

I believe the Dekkers were originally slated to be Mexican American but that was dropped. I also recollect that Striker and Vicky had two sons in addition to their daughters Reena and Samantha. Of course, Sam became a cousin and the sons were dropped.

I remember when they mentioned the sons on an episode of Another World.  One son was in the oil business with Striker, and the other one took care of the ranch. So at least originally, the Bellmans lived on a ranch and had four children.  I think the Bellmans were originally going to the the core family.  But all that went out the window, when Rauch insisted on including Iris in the show.   

35 minutes ago, dc11786 said:

@Neil Johnson It's interesting how things changed from "Another World" to "Texas." I'm curious how much was really adapted from the Corringtons' period piece "Reunion" bible and how much were elements that Paul Raunch cooked up with a combination of the Corringtons and/or Tom King. 

 

I've been surprised by little details that I've learned in episodes like how Striker was a former lieutenant governor in the state of Texas. I believe the nickname was explained in story, but I remember it being pretty weak. It had something to do with Striker's rise to the top of politics if I remember correctly.

 

Alex Wheeler seems like such a poor man's version of Jay Gatsby or a low rent Steve Frame. I know some people have said, maybe even you, that it seemed like the original story was going to be the Marshalls vs. the Bellmans. Alex seems to change all that. 

 

I think Samantha as Reena's cousin allows you to have Reena as an only child and replay the Iris / Mac relationship, but I think you are right that Samantha as her sister would have given the storylines a different dynamic and chance to play something new. 

I don't think Tom King had much influence on Texas.  But I'm confident Rauch insisted on changing much of what the Corringtons wanted to do.  Plus Rauch is the one who shoe-horned Iris into the show.  Frankly, I think Texas would have been a far better soap without Iris and Alex Wheeler.  The Corringtons could have worked their magic with the Bellmans, Marshalls, and Dekkers.  Bringing in Iris in such a huge role completely threw-off the show's structure.   

I don't remember Striker's name being explained on Texas, but perhaps it was in some kind of ret-con.  His name was explained on Another World, in one of the character's first appearances, when Clifton James was playing the role.  And it was related to him being a young wild-cater in West Texas.  It was originally said to be a nick-name, not his legal name.  But I don't think they ever revealed his legal name.

Oh -- and I think Rikki Dekker was going to be revealed as the son of Mike Marshall in the original story projection.  Maggie Dekker clearly knew some secret about Rikki (her favorite nephew).  Perhaps Rikki was Maggie's son too, but adopted by her brother.  But we'll never know, because they dropped it.   New head writer.   It never got much further than a few hints dropped by Maggie, and a few "knowing glances."   

14 minutes ago, Neil Johnson said:

 

Samantha was originally supposed to be Reena's sister.  On an episode of AW, Reena mentioned a sister named Samantha.  But  when Texas premiered, Sam had been changed to her cousin.  I think a sister would have been more interesting, and would have given Reena more depth.    

And I assume everyone knows Striker was originally an oil-man, not a lawyer.  In all of his original visits to Bay City, he was a big Texas oil-man and acquaintance of Mac Cory.  He was sort of the Jock Ewing of the Bellman family.  But somewhere between Bay City and Houston, Striker got his law license and his oil company disappeared.  Seemed like a silly and unnecessary change to me.   And why would a lawyer have a name like Striker???  LOL.  

3 hours ago, watson71 said:

 

In the synopsis for April 8, 1966 there is the note that in the script, Liz's maiden name may have been Hill. Liz gives the name "Mrs. William Hill Matthews" for wedding invitations that would be addressed by her as the mother of the groom for Bill and Missy's wedding.

Great!  Thanks for the information.  So that either means Liz's maiden name was Hill, or Will's middle name was Hill.  And since Hill would be a very unusual middle name, it is probably Liz's name.   Thanks again.   

15 hours ago, victoria foxton said:

 

Was this the first adult Bonnie, or the second one?  

4 hours ago, slick jones said:

Mike has found references that Liz Matthews maiden name may have been Hill.  I've never found anything about Liz pre-marriage to William Matthews.

That's really interesting.  I wish Mike would have explained the context of this discovery, and explained why/how he feels Hill was her maiden name.  I found the announcement in the updates on AWHP, but there was no explanation at all.