Mona Kane Croft

12 hours ago, rlj said:

 

At that time Return From The Dead Steven Frame was  the Richest Man in BC!

Of course he wasn't.  My post explained that Mac was far wealthier, and we don't even know if Mac was the richest man in Bay City. Mac was just the richest man on the show.  Steve owned a construction company.  Mac owned a world-wide publishing conglamorate.   That had been established years earlier on the show.  No need to argue about it.   

12 hours ago, amybrickwallace said:

I think Laura Malone was a terrific performer no matter what she was given to play, but do you all think Blaine was better as a villainess or a heroine? (Most of the material I've seen on YouTube is after Blaine had become a good girl.)

Blaine was far better as a villainess. And Malone was better at playing her that way.  After Blaine became a heroine, Malone seemed to struggle finding motivation for the character, and Blaine became too saccharine sweet.  Artificial.    

5 hours ago, Mitch said:

And after seeing that poor little Marty had to put his pants on and hang his head in shame!

 

 

Daniel Cosgrove as Bill Lewis also showed his butt on camera.  Also, a couple of guys on Y&R.  Was it Jack and Brad?  It must have been a CBS experiment, because I don't remember the other networks doing it.   

3 hours ago, victoria foxton said:

 

Who was writing this crap?  Steve Frame was never as wealthy as Mac Cory -- not even close.  Now they're saying Steve is the richest man in town.   Good grief!   

1 hour ago, Elsa said:

Was Victoria Wyndham involved with someone from NBC? The show was handed to her,  the heroine/star was fired so that she could take her, place, they gave her star billing, she claims to have made "suggestions" to TPTB and secretly written for the show. Isn't this too much? And for what? Lousy ratings since 1980?

Victoria Wyndham wasn't "given" star billing.  She had been number-three in the cast list (behind Jacquie Courtney and George Reinholt) from her first episode.  The same number-three that had been previously held by Robin Strasser.   So when Courtney and Reinholt were fired, it was natural that VW would move to number-one.   The stranger billing was that of Douglass Watson (a relative new-comer to the show) who was moved from near the bottom of the list,  to number-two (upon the firing of Reinholt and Courtney), skipping over stars like Beverly Penberthy, Connie Ford, David Bailey, Hugh Marlowe, and Beverlee McKenzie.     

1 hour ago, robbwolff said:

 

I've thought that it may have had to do with Joy Bell's Caroline Stafford, who arrived about a month before Iris' return. My guess is that Lemay planned to reveal that Iris had been living in Australia and that Caroline was her daughter. Evan (Bates) Frame was lovers with both Iris and Caroline, so there was potential there for a juicy triangle.

Interesting.  Caroline did have a troubling phone conversation with her mother back in Australia.  But I don't recall if that was before, or after, Iris arrived.   

Would anyone care to speculate on why TPTB did not ask Carmen Duncan to use an American accent, while playing Iris?  It's not as if it cannot be done.  Barbara Bejer (an American) played Bridget with a Scottish accent for more years than Duncan was on the show. And Brian Murray (a South African, who normally spoke with a very noticeable South African accent) used an American accent while playing Dan Shearer in 1978-79.   So why not Duncan?   

19 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

Um, no. Sally was adopted by his father's widow. That in no way, shape, or form makes them cousins. Also on AW, didn't an Ordway or two pop up in Bay City using the last name "Frame," even though they were Ordways? Inconsistencies about locales, names, family relationships, etc., have always given soap fans headaches.

If I'm not mistaken, Alice began the adoption process while Steve was still alive, but working in Australia.  And since Sally took the name Frame, I would say Sally was Jamie's sister (step? half?).  But certainly not his cousin.  The idea that he did not recognize Sally was his sister, and actually went on a date with her was really creepy!    

And yes, Frankie Frame was really an Ordway.  They made-up some silly reason she used the name Frame, but it was ludicrous.   Soap fans are smart enough to learn who's related to whom.  Good Lord, Days of Our Lives is well populated with members of the Horton family, but almost NONE of them carry the name Horton.  Still, we realize they are related

And back to EON, I always thought Monticello was in Ohio!

2 hours ago, teplin said:

 

Trust me, it reads better than it played out on screen. 

I completely agree.  Compared to what Lemay was writing 18 months earlier, 1980 was awful.   The entire show was falling apart.  Tom King was reasonably good at writing for the characters Lemay left behind, but the characters created by King were insipid and did not fit on AW. King would have been wise to keep as many of Lemay's characters as possible (since he knew how to write for them -- sorta).  But instead, he jettisoned about a third of the old characters in favor of his own creations, which the audience didn't care about and never warmed-up to.  

1 hour ago, Franko said:

Donna's misfortune extended into ATWT. She had skin cancer, then Vicky died and her ghost needed to be put to rest, then Jake remarried and ultimately died, too. According to the AWHP, Donna and Marley co-raised twins Michelle and Bridget with Jake's widow, Molly, but I'm willing to bet the ladies Love have spent most of the last 18 years with those girls (which, depending on how you look at it, may be a happy ending).

 

Slightly off topic, but did Cass and Lila eventually breakup, or was she just off-screen whenever he'd make his later appearances on ATWT and GL?

Cass's later appearances on ATWT, and his appearance(s) on GL were just as an attorney when needed.  There didn't seem to be any personal reasons for his visits.  So there would have been no need for Lila to accompany him.  They were not divorced.  

1 hour ago, Efulton said:

John Hutton's Peter Love was interesting and somewhat popular  The recasts and writers changing Peter's personality really ruined the character.  I liked all 3 Nicole's.  I never understood why Lauri Landy only lasted a few months.

I agree about John Hutton.  Had he remained on the show, AND the character had remained a good-guy, Peter would probably been a long term character.  Nicole was all over the place (both casting and characterization), and was more poorly written than even Peter. So she never really stood a chance of being a long term character.   And Reginald?  He had to be one of the most poorly conceived characters in soap opera history.  What idiot writer thought it would be a good idea to pen two returns from the dead within the same storyline?  One would have been bad enough.  

10 hours ago, Efulton said:

Hey Texas fans I am hoping you can help me out with a few questions I have.

 

• Was Nita Wright (played by Ellen Maxted) Billy Joe Wright's (played by John McCafferty) wife or sister?  And how was the character written off the show?
• How was the character of Maggie Dekker (played by Shirley Slater) written out?

If I'm not mistaken, Maggie Dekker was not written out, she just stopped appearing.  It's too bad, because the original writers (the Corringtons) had set up a mystery regarding the Dekkers and the Marshalls (probably regarding the parentage of Rikki Dekker) that was only alluded to -- and Maggie seemed to know the truth.   But when Maggie stopped appearing, whatever secret she held went with her, never to be mentioned.   

41 minutes ago, watson71 said:

 

I never thought about this til Halloween 1989 when Cecile returned to the show.  They had scenes with Cecile, Vicky, and Donna.  Both Cecile and Vicky were married to Jamie, but Cecile was always a contemporary of Donna in the same age bracket. Cecile was clearly a decade older than Vicky, as was Jamie.

 

 

It's ridiculous how the writers forgot Cecile's background -- calling her a social climber and a gold-digger.  Cecile was more of an aristocrat than anyone in Bay City.  She was the daughter of a French count, a French citizen, an heiress, and only moved to the US around 1978.  I wonder if anyone ever told Nancy Frangione about the history of the character she was playing?   Good Lord.   

Cecile was originally the same age as Jamie and Dennis, but when Frangione took over the role, the character aged, even though Jamie did not.  Still, I wouldn't say she was in the same age bracket as Donna.  Just my opinion.  

2 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

Ugh...was this recast of MJ accepted?  I certainly wouldn't have accepted her...she seems ditzy and needy...

 

Wow...Kim Zimmer before she started chewing scenery.  She's pretty good as Nola.

That's Kathy Glass playing MJ.  She really wasn't accepted as MJ, but she did stay in the role for quite a long time.  And she was a very good actress.  She basically played MJ like an entirely different character -- not confident witty MJ as played by Lauren White.  After Glass had been there a while, her MJ was sort of accepted, but more as a new character -- if that makes sense.   

15 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

Browne did an excellent job when she served as head writer for "Another World" a while back;

Dear God in Heaven.   

1 hour ago, Franko said:

For no particular reason, here's Reginald falling to his death from the Love Tower.

(Karma's a bitch, Reg.)

 

Why in the world didn't they add some ambient traffic noises and some wind in the earlier scenes?   They're on the top of a skyscraper out in the open air, for God's sake!  Finally, after Michael is holding Reginald by the arm, there is a bit of noise, and a little wind.   It couldn't be a matter of expense, because the wind would have been free and the traffic noise effect may have had a small royalty charge.  Somebody in the special effects department was clearly asleep at the wheel.  

And I wouldn't say Reginald threw himself off the roof.  He was trying to attack Michael again, but Michael stepped out of the way, and Reg's momentum carried him off the roof.  It wasn't a suicide, I'm my opinion.   

2 hours ago, Xanthe said:

 

So based on this they were making Rachel and Michael exact contemporaries (both in 8th grade) and their mothers both working single mothers. Michael says he's been away for 19 years which would be since 1967, consistent with Marley and Victoria's conception at that point. But Rachel also claims they were watching The Mickey Mouse Club, which should have been 1959 at the latest. If Michael was in 8th grade in 1959 that suggests he would have been closer to 21 in 1967, about 4 years older than Donna.

This version of Michael's early life also seems inconsistent with the version they had when John came on the scene. I may be misremembering but I thought they had Clara living on the family farm. I don't recall if they ever had her cross paths with Ada.

It's interesting that some folks find it surprising that Donna, Michael, and Rachel are around the same age.  I always assumed Donna and Michael's age lined up with that of Rachel, Russ Matthews, and Alice Frame. I'd put Sharlene in the same age-bracket, because she and Rachel had both been married to Russ Matthews.  I suppose, if you want to be literal, then Jamie Frame's SORASing does throw-off Rachel and Russ's age a bit. But that sort of thing happens on every soap, and it's usually best to ignore it.  The really hard-to-swallow age retcon for me was that of making Jamie and Dennis contemporaries with Marley and Vicki Hudson -- and by extension, Nancy McGowen.  If I'm not mistaken, when Nancy was born, Jamie was being played by Bobbie Doran, who was around 10 years old.  And Jamie continued to seem about a decade older than Nancy.  So when Vicki Hudson hooked her claws into Jamie, I thought it was a little creepy.  Especially, since the age difference was never mentioned in any of the dialogue.  They just started pretending they were the same age.   

21 minutes ago, prefab1 said:

I think it's too bad that no one tried to get Melissa Hayden back as Bridget (at least, not until the final episodes, when they also brought Nola back). The Reardon boarding house actually would have been the ideal set for the later years of the show; it could have been a lower-rent counterpart to the hotel where half of the cast seemed to live. And it would have been great to have Bridget running it and mixing it up with characters like Vanessa and her brother Matt. 

Technically the boarding house was still part of the show, and Buzz ran it.  For the most part, Company was featured, but occasionally they would show characters living in the boarding house and show their room(s).  

Here's a question: Does a soap opera head-writer always get fired after a strike, because he/she refused to cross the picket line?  We talk a lot about Lemay getting axed after the strike ended.  That made me wonder if it always happens, but maybe we are just unaware of it.   

6 hours ago, RavenWhitney said:

Many have reported that AW strike team of writers included: Donna Swajeski, Michael Zazlow (Roger from GL), his wife Susan Hufford, Nerissa Radell, Janet Iacubuzio, Mimi Leahey and Janet Stampfl.  I imagine that Swajeski and the Zazlows worked off some of Lemay's story ideas but that EP/Michael Laibson supervised the storylines.  Lemay was not a good fit for any show as a head writer by the late 1980s. His ten weeks after the strike ended were boring and uninspired.  I thought the strike period other than the ghost story was pretty watchable.  When Lemay's scripts starting airing I could barely get through an episode.  

Your list of scab writers may be accurate, but I question the inclusion of Zaslow, Hufford, and Radell.  First, because Zaslow was a member of two unions, the actors union and The Writer's Guild.  So I doubt he would have been so disloyal as to work  as a scab. Zaslow always seemed a man of integrity.   Additionally, Zaslow, Hufford, and Radell were all part of Harding Lemay's writing team, just after the strike. And I'm not sure it is legal to immediately hire writers who have worked as scabs for the writing team on the same show.  Frankly, I don't know how Swajeski was ever admitted to the Writer's Guild, since the entire world was aware she had been a scab writer.  Isn't there any penalty at all for crossing a picket line during a writers strike?  Who knows???

I'm surprised anyone would be able to compile an accurate list, considering the inflammatory nature of scab workers.  I'm sure the production company, as well as the scabs themselves would have nothing to gain (and a lot to lose), by allowing this information out of the shadows.  Although it probably does no harm for a list of scab writers to be released 32 years after a strike, had this information been released just after the strike, careers and reputations could have been damaged.   But then we have Swajeski, who was rewarded by being hired as head writer.  The world is crazy sometimes.   

28 minutes ago, j swift said:

As I recall when Frankie Frame was introduced it was established that Emma (her mother) lived in Oklahoma.  Which begs the question why she was known as Frankie Frame, when her parents were Ordways?  Obviously, the writer's logic was that it helped viewers remember her familial relationship, but it made no actual sense that she would be known by her mother's maiden name.

 

I think the problem with Iris's longevity was that she became an island onto herself.  Her raison d'etre became preserving her father's wishes and that becomes repetitive as a character ages.   Without a viable Dennis, or a long term husband, she lacked a family base for plotlines.  Between Lucas and Michael, Iris was the eternal third wheel in every love triangle.  As a result, she became an honorary Harrison, or an adjunct Cory, but she had no family to care for and no business to create story.  As we saw with Felicia, if Iris had stayed in Bay City, it was only a matter of time before long lost children came out of the woodwork.  There was also that mid-90's foray into soap realism that made bitchy divas seem obsolete.  Personally, I hated that period of soapdom when money no longer motivated characters, everyone was only interested in finding eternal love, and the social issue of the moment was the focus of every plot.  I prefer over the top villains and ladies who wore hats to the office.  

 

Going back to the retcon of Iris's adoption, (and the loss of Lemay's original story proposals), I wonder if the plan was for Iris to be red herring, or create reasonable doubt, for Amanda if she ever became a murder suspect because they shared the same genes and DNA evidence was a big news topic around that time. 

Frankie's history (not just her last name) was entirely screwed up.  By the time Frankie showed up in Bay City, they were no longer saying Sharlene's farm was the original Frame farm.  Now, Emma's farm was back in Oklahoma (it's original location), and Frankie was from there.  However a year or so later, Frankie took Cass to her high school reunion, and the high school was just outside of Bay City.  No mention of Oklahoma that night.  Then a few years later, Emma visits Frankie -- coming in from Oklahoma. LORD help us!  Frankie had the most convoluted history of any character on the show.  Except maybe Mary McKinnon, but I won't open that can of worms.  LOL.   

Regarding Iris's retcon -- since we know it was written by Lemay, I'm confident he didn't do it for any reason connected to a future murder accusation, because Lemay openly hated characters being accused of murder and avoided writing that type of thing.  It's possible Iris's adoption was retconned for a reason as simple as the executive producer forced Lemay to do it.   I'm not saying that's what happened, but it could have been something as simple as that, and done with no real intent at all.   

8 minutes ago, chrisml said:

I've said it before, but Carmen Duncan was sensational during the "Chief" storyline, and she should have won an Emmy. Duncan never got the acclaim or attention she deserved. I hate the way they destroyed her character by the end of her run. It's just another example of the AW brass not realising the talent they had. 

I thought Duncan was a very good recast too.  I just wish she had used an American accent.  I really can't think of another actress who would have done as well with the role, other than McKenzie herself.  I think it helped that Duncan was relatively unknown in the US, so the audience didn't view her with memories of other roles she had played.   She played Iris as manipulative and fragile, as did McKenzie.  Many actresses would have had difficulty with that combination.    

42 minutes ago, allmc2008 said:

When did the "The Chief" story start and who did it? Was it actually Lemay?

The storyline began during the writers strike.  So nobody really knows who wrote it.  As I said in an earlier post, Lemay had submitted his long-term storyline projections before the strike began, which was really just a vague outline of the plots and characters he planned to write.  So it is likely the Bennett Publishing storyline was part of his plan, and the scab writers decided they would use it.  If my speculation is true, the scab writers would have written all the details and scripts.  For example, I think it is likely the scab writers came up with the nickname "the chief", because that sort of cliche doesn't sound like something Lemay would create. Also, Mac's being arrested for murder likely was not Lemay's idea.  But the basic plot of the attempted take-over may have originated in Lemay's plan.  And of course, we know Iris's return was Lemay's plan. 

1 hour ago, pdm1974 said:

I thought Iris injected some energy into the show when she first appeared. Later, the writer's seemed unable to write compelling stories for her. Lemay would have probably done a much better job writing for the character even if he wasn't thrilled with the casting.

 

I also noticed when Lemay returned Rachel got a bit of her edge back again. She had some great confrontation scenes with Sharlene and referred to the Frame family with a "You people" with disgust in her voice. But that edge also was lost once DS took over writing. After that, Rachel never really had a big story until she was paired with Carl.

I agree, we saw a lot of the "old Rachel" when Lemay returned.  He's really the only writer who understood why and how much she had really reformed.  All the other writers just played her as a heroine.   Lemay never forget she had been a bad-girl who caused a lot of pain for people in her past.   

13 minutes ago, Efulton said:

Yea Emma’s farm all of  the sudden being in Bay City was really a ridiculous rewrite.  I remember reading an interview with Chris Robinson where he said the show wanted him to resurrect a Frame brother (I assume it was Willis) but he wanted to create a new character so that is how he became Jason.  I haven’t been able to find that interview though. 

Yes, there have been rumors for years, that Robinson was originally hired to play Willis, but he would only sign his contract if he played a new character.  

And then years later, Dean Frame arrived in Bay City and was said to be the son of YET ANOTHER Frame sibling.  I forget Dean's father's name, but he was never seen on camera.  He (along with Jason) was not a part of Lemay's original list of Frames.  

2 minutes ago, j swift said:

One tends to think there are also economic issues at play for production.  By that time there was less money for supporting characters like talk-to's and hit men, so the leading ladies were called upon to do things for themselves.

Perhaps. Not to mention, hiring a lackey takes extra scenes and extends the plot for an extra week or so.  Sometimes TPTB are in such a hurry to tell a story, they eliminate details.  What they don't realize is, those details are what helps define character, and are the very things that attract fans to soap operas.  A soap opera is a LOT more than plot.