Mona Kane Croft

1 hour ago, Franko said:

Donna's misfortune extended into ATWT. She had skin cancer, then Vicky died and her ghost needed to be put to rest, then Jake remarried and ultimately died, too. According to the AWHP, Donna and Marley co-raised twins Michelle and Bridget with Jake's widow, Molly, but I'm willing to bet the ladies Love have spent most of the last 18 years with those girls (which, depending on how you look at it, may be a happy ending).

 

Slightly off topic, but did Cass and Lila eventually breakup, or was she just off-screen whenever he'd make his later appearances on ATWT and GL?

Cass's later appearances on ATWT, and his appearance(s) on GL were just as an attorney when needed.  There didn't seem to be any personal reasons for his visits.  So there would have been no need for Lila to accompany him.  They were not divorced.  

1 hour ago, Efulton said:

John Hutton's Peter Love was interesting and somewhat popular  The recasts and writers changing Peter's personality really ruined the character.  I liked all 3 Nicole's.  I never understood why Lauri Landy only lasted a few months.

I agree about John Hutton.  Had he remained on the show, AND the character had remained a good-guy, Peter would probably been a long term character.  Nicole was all over the place (both casting and characterization), and was more poorly written than even Peter. So she never really stood a chance of being a long term character.   And Reginald?  He had to be one of the most poorly conceived characters in soap opera history.  What idiot writer thought it would be a good idea to pen two returns from the dead within the same storyline?  One would have been bad enough.  

10 hours ago, Efulton said:

Hey Texas fans I am hoping you can help me out with a few questions I have.

 

• Was Nita Wright (played by Ellen Maxted) Billy Joe Wright's (played by John McCafferty) wife or sister?  And how was the character written off the show?
• How was the character of Maggie Dekker (played by Shirley Slater) written out?

If I'm not mistaken, Maggie Dekker was not written out, she just stopped appearing.  It's too bad, because the original writers (the Corringtons) had set up a mystery regarding the Dekkers and the Marshalls (probably regarding the parentage of Rikki Dekker) that was only alluded to -- and Maggie seemed to know the truth.   But when Maggie stopped appearing, whatever secret she held went with her, never to be mentioned.   

41 minutes ago, watson71 said:

 

I never thought about this til Halloween 1989 when Cecile returned to the show.  They had scenes with Cecile, Vicky, and Donna.  Both Cecile and Vicky were married to Jamie, but Cecile was always a contemporary of Donna in the same age bracket. Cecile was clearly a decade older than Vicky, as was Jamie.

 

 

It's ridiculous how the writers forgot Cecile's background -- calling her a social climber and a gold-digger.  Cecile was more of an aristocrat than anyone in Bay City.  She was the daughter of a French count, a French citizen, an heiress, and only moved to the US around 1978.  I wonder if anyone ever told Nancy Frangione about the history of the character she was playing?   Good Lord.   

Cecile was originally the same age as Jamie and Dennis, but when Frangione took over the role, the character aged, even though Jamie did not.  Still, I wouldn't say she was in the same age bracket as Donna.  Just my opinion.  

2 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

Ugh...was this recast of MJ accepted?  I certainly wouldn't have accepted her...she seems ditzy and needy...

 

Wow...Kim Zimmer before she started chewing scenery.  She's pretty good as Nola.

That's Kathy Glass playing MJ.  She really wasn't accepted as MJ, but she did stay in the role for quite a long time.  And she was a very good actress.  She basically played MJ like an entirely different character -- not confident witty MJ as played by Lauren White.  After Glass had been there a while, her MJ was sort of accepted, but more as a new character -- if that makes sense.   

15 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

Browne did an excellent job when she served as head writer for "Another World" a while back;

Dear God in Heaven.   

1 hour ago, Franko said:

For no particular reason, here's Reginald falling to his death from the Love Tower.

(Karma's a bitch, Reg.)

 

Why in the world didn't they add some ambient traffic noises and some wind in the earlier scenes?   They're on the top of a skyscraper out in the open air, for God's sake!  Finally, after Michael is holding Reginald by the arm, there is a bit of noise, and a little wind.   It couldn't be a matter of expense, because the wind would have been free and the traffic noise effect may have had a small royalty charge.  Somebody in the special effects department was clearly asleep at the wheel.  

And I wouldn't say Reginald threw himself off the roof.  He was trying to attack Michael again, but Michael stepped out of the way, and Reg's momentum carried him off the roof.  It wasn't a suicide, I'm my opinion.   

2 hours ago, Xanthe said:

 

So based on this they were making Rachel and Michael exact contemporaries (both in 8th grade) and their mothers both working single mothers. Michael says he's been away for 19 years which would be since 1967, consistent with Marley and Victoria's conception at that point. But Rachel also claims they were watching The Mickey Mouse Club, which should have been 1959 at the latest. If Michael was in 8th grade in 1959 that suggests he would have been closer to 21 in 1967, about 4 years older than Donna.

This version of Michael's early life also seems inconsistent with the version they had when John came on the scene. I may be misremembering but I thought they had Clara living on the family farm. I don't recall if they ever had her cross paths with Ada.

It's interesting that some folks find it surprising that Donna, Michael, and Rachel are around the same age.  I always assumed Donna and Michael's age lined up with that of Rachel, Russ Matthews, and Alice Frame. I'd put Sharlene in the same age-bracket, because she and Rachel had both been married to Russ Matthews.  I suppose, if you want to be literal, then Jamie Frame's SORASing does throw-off Rachel and Russ's age a bit. But that sort of thing happens on every soap, and it's usually best to ignore it.  The really hard-to-swallow age retcon for me was that of making Jamie and Dennis contemporaries with Marley and Vicki Hudson -- and by extension, Nancy McGowen.  If I'm not mistaken, when Nancy was born, Jamie was being played by Bobbie Doran, who was around 10 years old.  And Jamie continued to seem about a decade older than Nancy.  So when Vicki Hudson hooked her claws into Jamie, I thought it was a little creepy.  Especially, since the age difference was never mentioned in any of the dialogue.  They just started pretending they were the same age.   

21 minutes ago, prefab1 said:

I think it's too bad that no one tried to get Melissa Hayden back as Bridget (at least, not until the final episodes, when they also brought Nola back). The Reardon boarding house actually would have been the ideal set for the later years of the show; it could have been a lower-rent counterpart to the hotel where half of the cast seemed to live. And it would have been great to have Bridget running it and mixing it up with characters like Vanessa and her brother Matt. 

Technically the boarding house was still part of the show, and Buzz ran it.  For the most part, Company was featured, but occasionally they would show characters living in the boarding house and show their room(s).  

Here's a question: Does a soap opera head-writer always get fired after a strike, because he/she refused to cross the picket line?  We talk a lot about Lemay getting axed after the strike ended.  That made me wonder if it always happens, but maybe we are just unaware of it.   

6 hours ago, RavenWhitney said:

Many have reported that AW strike team of writers included: Donna Swajeski, Michael Zazlow (Roger from GL), his wife Susan Hufford, Nerissa Radell, Janet Iacubuzio, Mimi Leahey and Janet Stampfl.  I imagine that Swajeski and the Zazlows worked off some of Lemay's story ideas but that EP/Michael Laibson supervised the storylines.  Lemay was not a good fit for any show as a head writer by the late 1980s. His ten weeks after the strike ended were boring and uninspired.  I thought the strike period other than the ghost story was pretty watchable.  When Lemay's scripts starting airing I could barely get through an episode.  

Your list of scab writers may be accurate, but I question the inclusion of Zaslow, Hufford, and Radell.  First, because Zaslow was a member of two unions, the actors union and The Writer's Guild.  So I doubt he would have been so disloyal as to work  as a scab. Zaslow always seemed a man of integrity.   Additionally, Zaslow, Hufford, and Radell were all part of Harding Lemay's writing team, just after the strike. And I'm not sure it is legal to immediately hire writers who have worked as scabs for the writing team on the same show.  Frankly, I don't know how Swajeski was ever admitted to the Writer's Guild, since the entire world was aware she had been a scab writer.  Isn't there any penalty at all for crossing a picket line during a writers strike?  Who knows???

I'm surprised anyone would be able to compile an accurate list, considering the inflammatory nature of scab workers.  I'm sure the production company, as well as the scabs themselves would have nothing to gain (and a lot to lose), by allowing this information out of the shadows.  Although it probably does no harm for a list of scab writers to be released 32 years after a strike, had this information been released just after the strike, careers and reputations could have been damaged.   But then we have Swajeski, who was rewarded by being hired as head writer.  The world is crazy sometimes.   

28 minutes ago, j swift said:

As I recall when Frankie Frame was introduced it was established that Emma (her mother) lived in Oklahoma.  Which begs the question why she was known as Frankie Frame, when her parents were Ordways?  Obviously, the writer's logic was that it helped viewers remember her familial relationship, but it made no actual sense that she would be known by her mother's maiden name.

 

I think the problem with Iris's longevity was that she became an island onto herself.  Her raison d'etre became preserving her father's wishes and that becomes repetitive as a character ages.   Without a viable Dennis, or a long term husband, she lacked a family base for plotlines.  Between Lucas and Michael, Iris was the eternal third wheel in every love triangle.  As a result, she became an honorary Harrison, or an adjunct Cory, but she had no family to care for and no business to create story.  As we saw with Felicia, if Iris had stayed in Bay City, it was only a matter of time before long lost children came out of the woodwork.  There was also that mid-90's foray into soap realism that made bitchy divas seem obsolete.  Personally, I hated that period of soapdom when money no longer motivated characters, everyone was only interested in finding eternal love, and the social issue of the moment was the focus of every plot.  I prefer over the top villains and ladies who wore hats to the office.  

 

Going back to the retcon of Iris's adoption, (and the loss of Lemay's original story proposals), I wonder if the plan was for Iris to be red herring, or create reasonable doubt, for Amanda if she ever became a murder suspect because they shared the same genes and DNA evidence was a big news topic around that time. 

Frankie's history (not just her last name) was entirely screwed up.  By the time Frankie showed up in Bay City, they were no longer saying Sharlene's farm was the original Frame farm.  Now, Emma's farm was back in Oklahoma (it's original location), and Frankie was from there.  However a year or so later, Frankie took Cass to her high school reunion, and the high school was just outside of Bay City.  No mention of Oklahoma that night.  Then a few years later, Emma visits Frankie -- coming in from Oklahoma. LORD help us!  Frankie had the most convoluted history of any character on the show.  Except maybe Mary McKinnon, but I won't open that can of worms.  LOL.   

Regarding Iris's retcon -- since we know it was written by Lemay, I'm confident he didn't do it for any reason connected to a future murder accusation, because Lemay openly hated characters being accused of murder and avoided writing that type of thing.  It's possible Iris's adoption was retconned for a reason as simple as the executive producer forced Lemay to do it.   I'm not saying that's what happened, but it could have been something as simple as that, and done with no real intent at all.   

8 minutes ago, chrisml said:

I've said it before, but Carmen Duncan was sensational during the "Chief" storyline, and she should have won an Emmy. Duncan never got the acclaim or attention she deserved. I hate the way they destroyed her character by the end of her run. It's just another example of the AW brass not realising the talent they had. 

I thought Duncan was a very good recast too.  I just wish she had used an American accent.  I really can't think of another actress who would have done as well with the role, other than McKenzie herself.  I think it helped that Duncan was relatively unknown in the US, so the audience didn't view her with memories of other roles she had played.   She played Iris as manipulative and fragile, as did McKenzie.  Many actresses would have had difficulty with that combination.    

42 minutes ago, allmc2008 said:

When did the "The Chief" story start and who did it? Was it actually Lemay?

The storyline began during the writers strike.  So nobody really knows who wrote it.  As I said in an earlier post, Lemay had submitted his long-term storyline projections before the strike began, which was really just a vague outline of the plots and characters he planned to write.  So it is likely the Bennett Publishing storyline was part of his plan, and the scab writers decided they would use it.  If my speculation is true, the scab writers would have written all the details and scripts.  For example, I think it is likely the scab writers came up with the nickname "the chief", because that sort of cliche doesn't sound like something Lemay would create. Also, Mac's being arrested for murder likely was not Lemay's idea.  But the basic plot of the attempted take-over may have originated in Lemay's plan.  And of course, we know Iris's return was Lemay's plan. 

1 hour ago, pdm1974 said:

I thought Iris injected some energy into the show when she first appeared. Later, the writer's seemed unable to write compelling stories for her. Lemay would have probably done a much better job writing for the character even if he wasn't thrilled with the casting.

 

I also noticed when Lemay returned Rachel got a bit of her edge back again. She had some great confrontation scenes with Sharlene and referred to the Frame family with a "You people" with disgust in her voice. But that edge also was lost once DS took over writing. After that, Rachel never really had a big story until she was paired with Carl.

I agree, we saw a lot of the "old Rachel" when Lemay returned.  He's really the only writer who understood why and how much she had really reformed.  All the other writers just played her as a heroine.   Lemay never forget she had been a bad-girl who caused a lot of pain for people in her past.   

13 minutes ago, Efulton said:

Yea Emma’s farm all of  the sudden being in Bay City was really a ridiculous rewrite.  I remember reading an interview with Chris Robinson where he said the show wanted him to resurrect a Frame brother (I assume it was Willis) but he wanted to create a new character so that is how he became Jason.  I haven’t been able to find that interview though. 

Yes, there have been rumors for years, that Robinson was originally hired to play Willis, but he would only sign his contract if he played a new character.  

And then years later, Dean Frame arrived in Bay City and was said to be the son of YET ANOTHER Frame sibling.  I forget Dean's father's name, but he was never seen on camera.  He (along with Jason) was not a part of Lemay's original list of Frames.  

2 minutes ago, j swift said:

One tends to think there are also economic issues at play for production.  By that time there was less money for supporting characters like talk-to's and hit men, so the leading ladies were called upon to do things for themselves.

Perhaps. Not to mention, hiring a lackey takes extra scenes and extends the plot for an extra week or so.  Sometimes TPTB are in such a hurry to tell a story, they eliminate details.  What they don't realize is, those details are what helps define character, and are the very things that attract fans to soap operas.  A soap opera is a LOT more than plot.   

2 hours ago, Neil Johnson said:

I always find it amusing in soaps when the snobbiest characters in town have a longer rap sheet than those they look down upon.

You're right, but that's not the way is was in the old days.  When Lemay was writing Iris, she initiated terrible things, but she never got her hands dirty.  She hired people to do her dirty work, and usually it couldn't be traced back to her.   The idea of genteel Iris waking around town toting a gun to shoot Carl, Jake, or anybody else was completely out of character for her.   Donna should have been written the same way -- instigating dirty deeds, but keeping her hands clean.  But how many times was Donna arrested (or threatened with arrest) over the years? Too many to count.   That is lazy writing, in my opinion.   

1 hour ago, Soaplovers said:

Yeah, Jason Frame was bought on during Depriests tenure.  He had ties to Reginald and Mary..while he had some creepy scenes with Nicole.  Once Depriest left and the strike started...the Jason/Mary..and Jason/Nicole stuff were dropped. 

So it was Depriest who created a new Frame sibling out of the blue!  And Depriest who miraculously moved the Frame Farm from Chadwell, Oklahoma to Bay City!   Depriest was capable of good writing on occasion, but those two moves were northing but idiocy.   My opiinion only.   

7 minutes ago, j swift said:

I always find it amusing in soaps when the snobbiest characters in town have a longer rap sheet than those they look down upon.

 

That makes sense, although does that mean that Iris didn't buy Donna's condo? Also interesting to note that there was a Bayview Tower and a Bayview Court (Bay City's version of Peachtree Street/Road in Atlanta or Beverly Blvd/Drive in Los Angeles).

That's correct.  Iris did not buy Donna's condo.  Iris's apartment was a new set that had never been used before.  I remember, it had a private elevator that opened directly into her foyer.  At least at the beginning.  The elevator  may have been changed to a door later in the show.  

10 minutes ago, j swift said:

Speaking of which, the parallels between Iris finding out that she wasn't Mac's daughter and Dennis finding out that he wasn't Elliot's son are interesting. 

 

I stopped watching Texas early in its run, but I wonder if there was any exposition regarding the connection between Dennis feeling betrayed in the same way that Iris had felt betrayed.  Certainly, the infamous slap that Elliot gave Iris when the paternity was revealed should have shocked Dennis enough to be more supportive of Iris, but the character of Dennis was never a Momma's-boy. 

 

All things being equal, (in hindsight), I am happy that character changes that developed for Iris in Houston never became cannon when she returned in Bay City.  She lost a lot of her bite when she became the grande dame of the Southwest.  Although it is odd that a few years in Australia changed her accent, while after all that time in Houston she never even uttered the word "y'all".

 

One question, upon her return was she always referred to as Iris Cory?  I still think of her as Iris Carrington because Louise always called her Mrs. Carrington, and on Texas she was known as Iris Wheeler.  Also, I believe when Dennis was reintroduced he was referred to as Dennis Wheeler, so it is odd that everybody else in Bay City referred to her by her maiden name, even though they had never used it in the past. 

When Iris returned to AW in 1988, she was always referred to as Iris Wheeler.  And at that point, Vivienne called her Mrs Wheeler.   Occasionally, Iris might refer to herself as Iris Cory -- but that was only to make a point that she was Mac Cory's daughter.   I don't recall anyone else calling her that.  

38 minutes ago, AbcNbc247 said:

Thanks for the info about Lemay's projections!

 

All of the strike storylines were written by Donna Swajeski, which is probably one of the reasons why her and Lemay clashed and he quit the show. But yeah, I wasn't a big fan of the ghost stuff or the Kevin Julian storyline either.

Swajeski was one of the scab writers, but that doesn't mean she wrote everything that happened during the strike. There were, no doubt, several scab writers.  I'm assuming Lemay gave Evan the last name Bates (Evan had changed his name from Battes, which was a nod to history).  Swajeski wouldn't have been smart enough to do that.   

Did Kevin Julian have a storyline?  I remember the character, but that's about all.  

And I don't think Lemay and Swajeski clashed.  Actually, I doubt they ever met.  But whatever she did during the strike impressed someone at the TOP, because they preferred her over Lemay, and fired him to give her the head writer's job.   But I'm fairly certain Lemay and Swajeski did not work together at all.  

8 minutes ago, AbcNbc247 said:

I checked AWHP. It says Lemay's scripts aired until November 10th and Iris came back on October 27th, so he did make Iris Mac's daughter again. I always found the whole idea of Iris being adopted unnecessary in general. I guess by 1978 Lemay had started to burn out.

You're right. Iris thought that by coming to Mac's/Cory Publishing's rescue, she would earn his love and respect again which is a bit of a rewrite anyway since when Iris left in 1980, there was no strained relationship between her and Mac at all. My guess is a writer didn't do their homework. 

 

I wonder what the original plan for the takeover storyline was. A lot of it was written during the writer's strike so I wonder if the Chief was always going to turn out to be Iris, or did Lemay take the story in a completely different direction?

Thanks for clarifying those dates.

Regarding The Chief storyline -- Lemay had submitted his storyline projections before the writer's strike began, so its likely at least some of the major plot points that occurred during the strike were Lemay's ideas.  But all the details would have been written by the scab writers.  So it's possible the foundation of The Chief plot was Lemay's creation, but calling the mystery person "the chief" doesn't sound like something Lemay would have done.  That detail was almost certainly written by the scab writers.  But having Iris revealed as the owner of Bennett Publishing (minus the nick-name) does sound like Lemay's style.   

I'm also confident Cass and Nicole's ghost plot during the strike was not part of Lemay's plot ideas.  He didn't write that type of garbage.

Also, did Sharlene, Josie, and Jason come back during the strike?  Or was it before the strike?   

2 hours ago, AbcNbc247 said:

I wonder why Lemay chose to rewrite his own story and suddenly make Iris Mac's biological daughter again. The reveal about Sylvie and Mac's wife did seem a little half assed but I'm glad that Lemay fixed it, I just wonder why.

 

I wish he had gone more into detail about his 1988 run in that We Love Soaps interview. The only thing that he was really clear about was that human trafficking storyline involving John and Sharlene.

If I'm not mistaken, Lemay's final episode as head writer was the episode in which Iris knocks on the front door of the Cory house -but we didn't see her.  Then Carmen Duncan's first episode was the following day.  So if I'm correct, Lemay didn't write Carmen's first episode and the change in Iris's parentage may have been Swajeski's idea, not Lemay's.  

Who ever did it, I think un-doing Iris's adoption plot was silly and unnecessary.  Mac was still a loving father in 1978, after Iris found out she was adopted.  So he would have still welcomed her back in '88, even though she was adopted. There was no need to rewrite the plot, and make her Mac's bio-daughter.     

19 minutes ago, Efulton said:

I agree that Caroline being Australian was most likely a part of a plan for her.  One that would have been much more interesting than what Joy Bell go to play.  Which is too bad because she was an interesting actress. I think it its highly unlikely that Carmen Duncan being Australian had anything to do with Caroline being Australian though because Iris was not Australian.  Do you recall if Iris' new accent was ever addressed or were we supposed to not notice it?  

Yes, Iris's new accent was addressed one time, when Iris told someone (probably Mac) that she had recently spent several years in Australia.   But of course, that was only to accommodate the actress -- not really part of Lemay's plan for  iris.  

11 minutes ago, Efulton said:

I don't think Carmen Duncan being Australian had anything to do with any storyline Lemay had planned.  I suspect it was purely about the actress being liked by the powers that be.

 

We Love Soaps: You were instrumental in bringing Iris back in 1988?
Harding Lemay: Yes, well, with a different actress. And she wasn’t Bevey McKinsey. She was Australian, actually. I wasn’t there when they cast her.

 

https://www.welovesoaps.net/2009/08/harding-lemay-interview-part-four.html

You're right, Lemay wasn't in charge of casting the new Iris.  But knowing who was cast (and that she was Australian) likely impacted his creation of Carolyn.  I don't think Carolyn's Australian background was unintentional (although Iris's was).