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Everything posted by Brolden

  1. OK, the next bit gets a bit tricky, so bear with me. I want to take you through the thinking process, but if you want the short version, skip to the section on the bottom of this post... We left things at August 3, 1992 (#9312). The next number I have is #9177 on January 20, 1992, which is also in the UCLA Library. Trying to connect those two numbers tells us that 5 episodes must have been pre-empted in between. We know about 3 of them: February 17, 1992: Winter Olympics Coverage [thanks @kalbir for confirming] March 19, 1992: NCAA Men's Basketball March 20, 1992: NCAA Men's Basketball For the remaining 2 pre-emptions, we unfortunately have no leads: January 20, 1992 - August 3, 1992: 5 pre-emptions, 3 confirmed, 2 unknown. Status: open -- The next confirmed number, also from th UCLA Library, is #9149 on December 10, 1991. This would mean that only 1 episode would have been pre-empted in between December 10 and January 20, yet I have 3 pre-emptions confirmed: December 25, 1991: Christmas December 31, 1991: New Year's Eve January 1, 1992: New Year's Day December 10, 1991 - January 20, 1992: 1 pre-emption, yet 3 confirmed. Status: system failure -- However, if we combine these two sections, we find that in between December 10 and August 3, a total of 6 episodes must have been pre-empted and we have exactly 6 pre-emptions confirmed. Therefore, it seems like either the date or the number is off for the #9177/January 20, 1991 entry in the UCLA Library. Now, this is a bit of a slippery slope, as both of the other episodes used for reference (August 3, 1992 and December 10, 1991) come from the UCLA Library as well. If this one entry is off, who's to say the others are correct? So, in my next post, not only will I tie the December 10, 1991 episode to the next non-UCLA checkpoint, but I will also tie that checkpoint to November 10, 1992, which was the last non-UCLA checkpoint we've encountered. December 10, 1991 - August 3, 1992: 6 pre-emptions, all confirmed. Status: closed
  2. Two tidbits: I just found that February 20, 1990 is indeed listed as pre-empted in the historical listings. Thanks again @adrnyc for putting me on this trail. I believed it already, but it's nice to see it confirmed! I have also just added the Christmas pre-emptions to the post above, but in researching those dates I came upon an issue that I'd like to ask your help on. There is an episode named "Christmas 1989" on Oakdalian's channel, as well as on the AsTheWorldStillTurns channel under 12 25 89. It is one of the classic episodes that aired years later on (I believe) SoapNet, as end credits have been added to the episode in the 90s style, which unfortunatly makes it more difficult to date the episode (as Dan Region's voice-overs usually provide a hint). However, I have just found out that December 25, 1989 is actually listed as pre-empted in some of these historical newspapers. Now, I know these listings are never a 100% certain, but the ones I've found so far have been very reliable. They largely match up with pre-emptions I had known about previously. There are probably a number of pre-emptions that don't appear in these listings (as they were unplanned), but I doubt it's the other way around. If a pre-emption appears in the listings, I doubt it would have aired instead. Long story short: I have a semi-credibly source confirming that the December 25, 1989 episode was pre-empted. I'm now wondering if the date on that episode could be wrong. Oakdalian only has it as "Christmas" not "December 25", and I could imagine AsTheWorldStillTurns having assumed that to mean December 25. So, the question that arises: Is it possible that this episode aired on a different date? Maybe December 26? December 22? Would anyone be able to shed some light on this?
  3. All right, so we've made our way backwards to May 12, 1995 and episode #10000. The next (going backwards) confirmed episode number is #9932 on February 3, 1995, which is in the collection held by the UCLA Library. To make the numbers work, 2 episodes need to have been pre-empted in between those dates. And indeed, we have both pre-emptions verified: March 16, 1995: NCAA Men's Basketball March 17, 1995: NCAA Men's Basketball February 3, 1995 - May 12, 1995: 2 pre-emptions; 2 confirmed. Status: closed -- The next era is a big one. Episode #9548 aired on July 12, 1993, and is held by the P&G Corporate Archives. In between these two dates, there need to have been no fewer than 25 pre-emptions. Of course, this is the O.J. Simpson era (which actually also includes a lot of random, one-off, not-O.J.-related pre-emptions), so who knows if we will ever get to the bottom of this one. I have 10 pre-emptions confirmed currently: September 6, 1993: US Open September 10, 1993: US Open November 25, 1993: Thanksgiving Thursday December 24, 1993: Christmas Eve December 31, 1993: New Year's Eve January 17, 1994: Northridge Earthquake coverage February 1/2, 1994: "The Bell Tower" was re-broadcast on the 2nd, because it had been pre-empted in parts of the country February 21, 1994: Winter Olympics Coverage [thanks @kalbir for confirming] December 30, 1994: Extended New Year's Eve holiday January 2, 1995: Extended New Year's Eve holiday In addition, there are 5 pre-emptions that, although unconfirmed, seem highly likely: March 17, 1994: NCAA Men's Basketball March 18, 1994: NCAA Men's Basketball September 5, 1994: US Open September 9, 1994: US Open November 24, 1994: Thanksgiving Thursday Even with those pre-emptions included, we still need 10 more dates. I have the following written down as potential candidates: September 13, 1993: Oslo Accords signing? [listed as airing, but could be an unplanned pre-emption?] June 30, 1994: O.J. Simpson? July 1, 1994: O.J. Simpson? July 4, 1994: O.J. Simpson? July 5, 1994: O.J. Simpson? July 6, 1994: O.J. Simpson? July 7, 1994: O.J. Simpson? July 8, 1994: O.J. Simpson? November 25, 1994: Thanksgiving Friday??? [seems highly unlikely, as Thanksgiving Friday aired in '93 and '95] January 24, 1995: O.J. Simpson opening statement? Unfortunately, 1994 is pretty much the one year that is largely missing from my historical tv listings sources. I'm also sad to find magilla71's YouTube channel has gone missing, as they were systematically uploading '94 episodes, which were being dated in the comment sections. July 12, 1993 - February 3, 1995: 25 pre-emptions, 10 verified, 5 highly likely; 9 potential candidates; 1 highly unlikely. Status: Open -- But for some good news, following that frustrating period: The next five (smaller) cases have been closed. "Jelinda's Theme" debuted in episode #9437 on February 3, 1993 ("The World Turns On And On" was last seen the day before in #9436), which means 2 episodes were pre-empted: March 18, 1993: NCAA Men's Basketball March 19, 1993: NCAA Men's Basketball February 3, 1993 - July 12, 1993: 2 pre-emptions, both confirmed. Status: closed -- Episode #9381 aired on November 10, 1992 and is held by the P&G Corporate Archives. 5 pre-emptions are needed, all have been confirmed: November 26, 1992: Thanksgiving Thursday December 25, 1992: Christmas December 31, 1992: New Year's Eve January 1, 1993: New Year's Day January 20, 1993: Clinton inauguration November 10, 1992 - February 2, 1993: 5 pre-emptions, all confirmed. Status: closed -- The UCLA Library holds the September 8, 1992 episode, which is #9337. 1 episode was pre-empted, and we know which one it is: September 11, 1992: US Open September 8, 1992 - November 10, 1992: 1 pre-emption, confirmed. Status: closed -- The UCLA Library also holds the August 24, 1992 episode, which is #9327. 1 episode was pre-empted, and we know it: September 7, 1992: US Open August 24, 1992 - September 8, 1992: 1 pre-emption, confirmed. Status: closed -- And it doesn't end there, the library also has August 4 (and 3), which is #9313 (and #9312). Those numbers line up perfectly with the previous ones, which means there were no pre-emptions in between. August 4, 1992 - August 24, 1992: no pre-emptions. Status: closed
  4. I just looked over some notes I took a while back on the collection held by the Paley Center, and it turns out they actually have the November 24, 1995 episode in their collection (title: Carly And Rosanna Are Rescued From A Burning Car). Firstly, this means that Thanksgiving Friday aired in '95, much like '91, '92 and '93. It therefore seems extremely likely that Thanksgiving Friday would have aired in '94 as well. Secondly, that means I now have only one (strong) suspicion for our one remaining pre-emption: Thursday November 23, 1995 (Thanksgiving). Since Thanksgiving Thursdays were pre-empted all through the 90s and beyond, it seems like we have connected May 12, 1995 to March 18, 1997. I sure wish I was able to confirm that final pre-emption though. I should probably also mention that there is one slight issue with the numbers as I've figured them so far. I believe I have mentioned this before, but the Scrapbook includes a behind-the-scenes look at the making of an episode, which is said to be #10155, and said to have aired on December 22, 1995. By my current count, #10155 aired on December 20, 1995, while #10157 aired on December 22, 1995. Since the Scrapbook contains many errors, and the alignment of that date and episode number contradicts all my other sources, I'm considering this to most likely be a mistake. However, I'm still keeping it in the back of my mind to check with later findings.
  5. Having said all that, I am, as I said, currently working on a major overhaul of the list. This time, I am working my way backwards. Since so little is known about the early years, it just makes more sense to use the final episode number (#13858) as a reference point. I'm sorry if what I'm about to do sounds a bit like a monologue, but I want to document the steps I take to provide clarity for myself and others. I've done this before in the ATWT discussion thread. What I will do is I will cut the list up in smaller pieces, to see which ones I can already connect and which individual episodes provide the biggest question marks. For the final 13 years of the show, there is a lot of material around. As a result, I have every episode confirmed (either because it's on youtube, or because there are recaps around somewhere) from 1998 onwards. The first episode (going backwards) that I do NOT have confirmed is the March 17, 1997 episode. Therefore the first period is: March 18, 1997 - September 17, 2010: 131 pre-emptions, all confirmed. Status: closed. Going backwards further, the first confirmed episode number we encounter is May 12, 1995, which is #10000. If I count every weekday between May 12, 1995 and March 18, 1997, the latter would be episode 10482. Since we have connected the 1997 episode to the final episode number, we know it must be #10466, meaning there were 16 pre-emptions in between. I have 15 of those 16 pre-emptions confirmed: September 4, 1995: US Open September 8, 1995: US Open December 29, 1995: Extended New Year's? [confirmed from an episode] January 1, 1996: New Year's Day March 14, 1996: NCAA Men's Basketball March 15, 1996: NCAA Men's Basketball September 2, 1996: US Open September 6, 1996: US Open November 28, 1996: Thanksgiving November 29, 1996: Thanksgiving December 31, 1996: New Year's Eve January 1, 1997: New Year's Day March 7, 1997: President Clinton news coverage [episode was re-broadcast on March 10] March 13, 1997: NCAA Men's Basketball March 14, 1997: NCAA Men's Basketball That leaves 1 other pre-emption. I have 2 more suspected pre-emptions: Thanksgiving Thursday & Friday 1995. Here's where I went wrong before: I didn't have the US Open '95 or the NYE '96 confirmed at th time, so I was looking for 4 more pre-emptions. Since Thanksgiving and US Open both seemed like pairs, I assumed that those four episodes were pre-empted, while NYE '96 aired. I now know it didn't. When we check the Thanksgiving pre-emptions above, we'll see that the Thursday was always pre-empted from the early 70s onwards, while there was a period in the mid-90s when the Friday actually aired. It seems safe to assume (but it's still only assuming!), therefore that November 23, 1995 is our missing pre-emption, and that the show aired on November 24, 1995 (Following this logic, it then also seems reasonable to assume the Thanksgiving Friday aired in '94 as well, but we'll get to that). May 12, 1995 - March 18, 1997: 16 pre-emptions, 15 confirmed, 1 assumed. Status: open. -- Haha, oops, excellent point. I'll amend that. I'm reasonably sure that the tournament was only broadcast on CBS from '91 onwards anyway.
  6. All right, so as mentioned, I'm currently working on a major overhaul of the entire list. There is a wealth of information to be found in these historical newspapers, if you know how to look for it. One thing I've realized is that I've previously been a bit too hasty to assume a number of 'regular' pre-emptions. Turns out they were a lot less regular than expected. Especially the Thanksgiving pre-emptions, which I had long considered to be a given, proved a revelation. Here's a quick overview: NCAA Men's Basketball (assumption: Thursday & Friday pre-empted from 1991 onwards) 1957 - 1989: unknown 1990: confirmed as airing on Thursday & Friday 1991 - 1993: confirmed as pre-empted on Thursday & Friday 1994: unknown 1995 - 2010: confirmed as pre-eempted on Thursday & Friday US Open (assumption: Monday pre-empted from 1976 onwards; Friday pre-empted from 1982 onwards) 1956 - 1967: unknown 1968 - 1975: confirmed as airing on Monday & Friday 1976 - 1977: confirmed as pre-empted on Monday, airing on Friday 1978: unknown 1979 - 1981: confirmed as pre-empted on Monday, airing on Friday 1982 - 1987: confirmed as pre-empteed on Monday & Friday 1988: Monday unknown, confirmed as pre-empted on Friday 1989 - 1993: confirmed as pre-empted on Monday & Friday 1994: unknown 1995 - 2010: confirmed as pre-empted on Monday & Friday Thanksgiving (assumption: Thursday pre-empted 1966 - 1969 and 1973/1974 - 2010; Friday pre-empted 1982 - 1990 and 1994/1995/1996 - 2010) 1956 - 1965: unknown 1966 - 1969: confirmed as pre-empted on Thursday, airing on Friday 1970 - 1972: confirmed as airing on Thursday & Friday 1973: unknown 1974 - 1979: confirmed as pre-empted on Thursday, airing on Friday 1980: unknown 1981: confirmed as pre-empted on Thursday, airing on Friday 1982 - 1990: confirmed as pre-empted on Thursday & Friday 1991 - 1993: confirmed as pre-empted on Thursday, airing on Friday 1994 - 1995: unknown 1996 - 2010: confirmed as pre-empted on Thursday & Friday Christmas (assumption: pre-empted from 1978 - 1992 and 1997 - 2008) 1956 - 1959: unknown 1961 - 1964: unknown 1967 - 1970: confirmed as airing 1972 - 1975: confirmed as airing 1978 - 1981: confirmed as pre-empted 1984 - 1987: confirmed as pre-empted 1989: confirmed pre-empted in listings, yet appears on YouTube; possibly dated wrong? 1990 - 1992: confirmed as pre-empted 1995 - 1996: confirmed as airing 1997 - 1998: confirmed as pre-empted 2000 - 2003: confirmed as pre-empted 2006 - 2008: confirmed as pre-empted 2009: confirmed as airing New Year's Eve (assumption: pre-empted from 1990 onwards) 1956 - 1959: unknown 1962 - 1965: unknown 1968: confirmed as airing 1969: unknown 1970: confirmed as airing 1971: unknown 1973 - 1975: confirmed as airing 1976: unknown 1979 - 1982: confirmed as airing 1984: unknown 1985 - 1987: confirmed as airing 1990 - 1993: confirmed as pre-empted 1996 - 1999: confirmed as pre-empted 2001 - 2004: confirmed as pre-empted 2007 - 2009: confirmed as pre-empted New Year's Day (assumption: pre-empted from at least 1968 (possibly earlier) onwards, with the exception of 2004) 1957 - 1960: unknown 1962 - 1965: unknown 1968 - 1969: confirmed as pre-empted 1970: unknown 1971: confirmed as pre-empted 1973: unknown 1974 - 1976: confirmed as pre-empted 1979 - 1982: confirmed as pre-empted 1985: unknown 1986 - 1988: confirmed as pre-empted 1990 - 1993: confirmed as pre-empted 1996 - 1999: confirmed as pre-empted 2001 - 2003: confirmed as pre-empted 2004: confirmed as airing 2007 - 2010: confirmed as pre-empted I'm working on Christmas pre-emptions as we speak. Will update with that info soon.
  7. 10. Amanda Woodward Parezi Burns McBride Blake McBride Burns (Heather Locklear) Long before I started watching Melrose Place, I had heard of Amanda Woodward. She is one of those characters that truly became a bigger pop culture phenomenon than the show she hailed from. And while I have already argued that to say that Amanda/Heather single-handedly saved the show is a bit of an oversimplification, there is definitely no denying that she played a huge part in it. In many ways, this show turned into Amanda's show, with the other characters just living in it. I have to say that made me resent the character a little bit before she was ever even introduced. I had gotten into a show about 8 twenty-somethings, none of whom was named Amanda, while the rest of the world seemed to think of Melrose Place as synonymous with Amanda Woodward. I was fully intent on not liking her... But then she was introduced. And I was sold. I can't remember precisely, but I think I was sold pretty immediately. I loved Amanda as a foil in the Billy/Alison romance I liked so much. Certainly a much better adversary than Keith. Much as I loved Billy/Alison, I liked how Billy seemed like a fish out of water opposite Amanda. I loved her career-mindedness. I vividly remember when she was pregnant and didn't want people to know because she's be treated differently at work (side note, but I would have loved for SOMEONE to remember Amanda's S1 pregnancy when she got pregnant and AGAIN lost the baby in S7). Amanda and Jake were OK together, and worked as part of the Amanda/Jake/Jo triangle in S2. And then Peter was introduced. I remember feeling like Amanda had met her match. Both Billy and Jake had seemed out of their league with Amanda, but here was a guy that could keep up with her. I will go into the mid-S3 twist involving Jasmine Guy in the upcoming Peter post, and I know that many of you loved it, but suffice it to say here, that it feels to me (both at the time and in hindsight) like a storyline written during a writer's strike, that just seemed completely out of place with the rest of that season. I actually pretend it never happened (that's the only way I can buy Peter's return and Peter/Amanda's reunion). I was never a big fan of the brief Michael/Amanda romance. Upon Peter's return, Peter/Amanda quickly joined Billy/Alison and Jake/Jo as my favorite couples on the show. The Jack Parezi reveal was interesting (and although I'm not a fan of his politcal views, Antonio Sabato, Jr. was perfect in the role), but Bobby became real boring real fast. I was never a fan of Taylor, but the mystery regarding her "history" with Peter was entertaining. It's a shame she caused the couple to break off. But then there was Kyle. And something unexpected happened. So often, I, like many of you, am dead-set on a certain couple, and won't accept anyone else. I think it's an attribute to a show when they can sell a character from a popular pairing in a different pairing. Much as I loved Peter/Amanda, I grew to love Kyle/Amanda almost equally. Part of it was that it was built slowly, while the two characters were sidelined by the much more prominent developments between Peter and Taylor. By S7, when they had Kyle/Amanda together, but were heavily teasing Peter/Amanda, I was wondering what it had been like for fans at the time. Were they divided into "team Peter" and "team Kyle". I'm actually surprised to find little love for Kyle/Amanda so far. In the end, I think I was always still hoping for Peter/Amanda to end up together. I think Amanda always needed someone who could keep up with her a bit more, and Kyle needed someone who he could settle down with. But the disintegration of that marriage was surprisingly touching. One thing I regret is that the show didn't explore Amanda's family further. I didn't care for Palmer much, but there's no way I believed him to be actually dead without a body. I loved Linda Gray as Hillary, and was hoping to see her again after Models, Inc. had crashed and burned. It's interesting that David was mentioned, but never seen on MP. They could have either brought Brian Gaskill on MP, or even recast, since the character was still a bit of a blank slate. I get why they didn't focus on her family more, because Amanda was always so independent, but I still would have liked it. The other thing I regret is that her company, which was the result of her careermindedness, completely sank at the end of S7. I can't imagine Amanda not running her company. And to have that happen at the hands of Lexi, who was never actually seen doing any advertising, was an insult.
  8. OK, so maybe not a "short" time in absolute terms, but in relative terms. She came in later than the others and left before anyone else did.
  9. 9. Jo _____ Reynolds (Daphne Zuniga) I have a confession to make: There are two reasons why I originally started watching MP. The first is that I'd been watching Beverly Hills, 90210 up to the point where it spun off, and I figured I'd check out what Kelly, Steve, David, Donna, and Jake would be up to in the spin-off. The second (although really the first) reason was that I love One Tree Hill, and I'd really enjoyed Daphne Zuniga on that show to the point where I wanted to check out her other major televsion role. You know, the popular story is that Heather Locklear saved this show. I wouldn't even say that's totally incorrect (more on that in the next post). But like some of you have argued, it was really multiple things coming together that saved this show. Certainly, Marcia Cross and Laura Leighton did their parts. But I would argue that it all started with the arrival of Daphne's Jo halfway through Season 1. She was just such a breath of fresh air. I absolutely loved her layered perfomance of Jo as the tough chick with a heart of gold and a ton of insecureties. And, like many others and as I have mentioned previously, I absolutely loved Jake & Jo. I always felt that they both really brought something unique to that relationship and they really complemented each other well. Unfortunately, the same can not be said for her other love interests. As a matter of fact, Jo is the third female regular (following Jane and Alison) that, in my opinion, really suffered from being put with terrible male love interests. First, there was her husband Charles "Brett Cooper" Reynolds. Obviously, he represented her past and was specifically meant to be a terrible love interest. One thing that bothers me to no end, however, is that Jo went by "Reynolds" for the rest of the series. We never even learned her maiden name. With Jane, I can still sort of imagine that she'd keep Michael's name, as she had used it to make a name for herself in the fashion world. But why on earth would Jo keep going by the name Reynolds? I believe Jo dated Parker for a bit in S2, but I don't think that pairing was any less terrible than the Parker/Alison one. Reid turned into a psycho real fast. Jess was probably even worse. Or maybe Richard was the worst? I didn't fully hate Dominick, but I absolutely didn't like him, or their pairing, either. One thing that I did appreciate is the time in between Reid and Jess, when Jo was on her own and dealing with the pregnancy and the baby. The rivalry with Kimberly was amazing, and when Jo finally decided to give up the baby, it was quite heartbreaking. I also really love the way Jake was there for her as a friend during that time. Another thing I found fascinating was the gun. Storylines like those are always a bit jarring for me as a non-American, but it's really interesting how they seemed to be addressing the polarizing gun issue (with some of our favorite apartment inhabitants being really against Jo's owning a gun, but Jo really relying on it), which seems ahead-of-its-time. I believe DZ has been outspoken in favor of gun control on social media in recent years, so I wonder how she looks back on those stories. Someone remind me: did we ever meet Jo's father. I remember he was involved in some capacity when Charles followed her to L.A., but I think it was just in the shape of phone calls, without us actually seeing him? I would have loved to have seen him brought in later on. The scenes where Jo spoke about her mother's death were always quite touching to me. As I said in the previous post, I was completely unprepared for Jo to be gone after season 4. Since she was one of the later additions, I had expected her to stick around a bit longer. Even when she left for Bosnia with Dominick at the end of S4, I fully expected her to back in S5. It was while the opening credits to S5 were rolling that I realized I'd seen the last of her. It's a shame she was on the show for such a short time. I also think it's a shame that she wasn't mentioned much after she left (at least as far as I remember).
  10. Oof, sorry it's been a minute guys, it's been a crazy week. I'm really happy to hear my posts are making you all want to rewatch the show. Hell, your responses are making me want to rewatch the show, and I have only just finished it. -- 8. Dr. Michael Mancini (Thomas Calabro) Let me start by saying that I have the utmost respect for Thomas Calabro for being the only cast member that stuck with the show from beginning to end, and I appreaciate the character of Michael for the same reason: being the constant on the show. I remember reading that tidbit while I was in the middle of (I think) S3, when everyone was still there (save for Sandy and Rhonda), and just thinking it must have been a mistake. (I also started thinking then that characters like Amanda, Jo, Sydney and Kimberly would be used to fill the void, so when Jo left before anyone else even did, I was quite shocked). I've hinted at it before, and I know it's an unpopular opinion, but I wasn't the biggest fan of Michael. I liked him somewhat better during the earlier seasons, but even then, I wasn't a big fan. I'm always very fascinated by characters that are supposed to be "the villain" or "evil", because there are so many different types. I never thought of Michael as pure evil, perhaps not even a real villain. He was just an unsympathetic, morally bankrupt character. But here's the thing: a few years ago, I started thinking about th concept of "love to hate". There are some characters that within the universe of the story, you absolutely want to strangle. But as a viewer, you are rooting for that character to keep being brought back, you are a fan of the actor. On Melrose Place, I think Kimberly is probably the best example of this kind of characters (I suppose Amanda had her moments as well, although she was perhaps written too sympathetically to really embody this). When she appeared in that courtyard with that remote control, I simultaneously wanted her to press that button and to not press that button. When she appeared on that beach outside Michael's place, I cheered. When Michael appeared on the screen in one of his antics, I usually just rolled my eyes. Even in those earlier seasons, I felt like his storylines often went a bit over the top, although it was a far stretch from the cartoon character he would become later on. One of my biggest issues was that those he had victitmized the most kept letting him back in. Jane returned to him twice. Sydney's life would have been so very different (although perhaps less interesting) if she hadn't been obsessed with Michael so very long. I can't for the life of me figure out why Matt kept being his friend to the end. By season 6/7, he would be invited to bachelor parties, for characters that he had barely interacted with, even though he was not living in the building. Speaking of the later seasons, I was glad they finally introduced his mother in season 6, but I feel like they didn't really squeeze any story out of that potential. Since Michael was such a macho, I would have been interested to see his father as well, and thought it was a missed opportunity he was never seen. I'm not sure, but I would swear that a brother was mentioned at some point in S1/S2, but I guess with the introduction of Jennifer (and the precedent of Jane's brother being turned into a sister), they might have changed that backstory. One thing I will say: they really did keep me on my toes when it came to Michael's endgame. Since Michael and Jane were the resident couple at the start of the series, I was originally expecting them to go through a lot during the series, but end up together in the end. Even when Michael had his affair, I was expecting them to move past it and stay together. When they did break up and paired Michael with Kimberly, I started thinking that those two would end up together (they certainly seemed made for each other) and that Jane was permanently through with Michael. Unfortunately, I had seen promotional material of Kimberly in later seasons, so I never bought into her death. I never bought Sydney as endgame for Michael, nor did I buy Jane's brief return to Michael post-accident, and that time when Michael and Amanda were together has always felt (both at the time and in retrospect) really strange to me. By the time Michael and Kimberly got back together after the bomb, I was fully expecting them to be endgame. Then Jane and Kimberly both left (well, Jane left and Kimberly died) around the same time in S5, and Kimberly hand-picked Megan to be her successor. Since the only two women I had ever bought as endgame for Michael were now gone, and Michael and Megan seemed quite isolated from the rest there for a while, I started thinking she would be his endgame. When they spent nearly all of S6 apart, I kept expecting them to return to each other in the end. It wasn't until Ryan was introduced that I realized Megan was definitely not ending up with Michael. Although Michael spent most of S7 with Jane, I didn't buy them as endgame (I would have actually been very pissed if they had been). It was around this time, halfway through S7 that I accidentally found out Michael would be with Lexie at some point (in this thread, actually, that's the spoiler I mentioned in my original post months ago). Although I hadn't seen them together yet, I immediately realized that that pairing would work, which was confirmed when I did see them together. I went into the finale fully expecting them to end up together, only to be proven wrong one last time. I'm not mad that they didn't end up together. Neither of them is the type for forever. But Michael's final scene with that slutty nurse, although it made sense for the character, was extremely eyeroll-inducing.
  11. Per your own list, Susan Pellegrino was also on ATWT as Pamela _____ Thompson, and Matthew Del Negro was Frank, who liked Rose in 2000.
  12. April 12 was a Saturday April 16 was a Sunday
  13. I always felt like nearly everyone was 2-3 years out of college (age, at least. Whether they actually attended is another matter), with the exception of Billy, who was completely fresh out of college. I could easily be wrong though. Whoa, I have zero memory of this. More regular-by-regular takes are coming up, when I have a moment.
  14. That's how I'll regard it for now. Count it as an aired episode, with some people/areas missing out on it. This has got to be 1998... right?
  15. 7. Billy Campbell (Andrew Shue) I think I'm about to say something quite controversial, but I honestly never minded Shue's acting much, especially in the early seasons. Like I said previously, Billy was the new guy, through whose eyes we were meant to see the other inhabitants of the apartment building. But additionally, I always saw Billy as bringing some youthful energy to the show. I'm not sure if this was ever stated on the show, but I always imagined Billy as fresh out of college, living on his own for the first time, while most of the others had already been out of college for a few years at least. His outfits in S1 certainly reflected that, and even in his storylines he always seemed a bit naïve. I always loved his aspiration to write the next Great American Novel, which was clearly forgotten about in later seasons. He also felt like the Brandon Walsh in S1, who needed to learn a new moral every episode (I swear, both Brandon and Billy went out with a girl who turned out to have a young child in the first seasons of their shows, confronting them with their own feelings about becoming a parent one day). I frickin' loved Billy/Alison, as friends, as roommates, and of course as a couple. Having said that, I didn't hate Billy/Amanda, and I absolutely love the lasting friendship that came out of that pairing. I think Billy started changing somewhere in S2, losing some of his youthful energy, especially when he was brought into D&D. He started to wear suits all the time, and he never mentioned writing ever again. When Brooke was brought on in late S3 and started seeing Billy, I felt like she temporarily brought some of that youthfulness (sorry for overusing that word) back to him. I remember a scene between Billy/Brooke at the pier (I think it might be when they decided to get married), where we saw Billy in casual clothes again, which just made him seem less up-tight overall. However, once S4 started, I didn't like the Billy/Brooke pairing at all, to the point where it became downright pathetic the lengths she would go to to hold on to him. I skipped over Billy's relationshop with Susan in S3, which was OK, but mostly just NOT Billy/Alison. I think I may have liked Billy/Sam for a second in very early S5, but like Brooke and Susan, she was simply not Alison. That marriage grew tedious as hell, first with the storyline surrounding her father (which took way too long) and then the quadrangle with Billy/Sam/Jeff/Jennifer, which has to be the number 1 most boring storyline the show has had. All of the characters became unrecognizable, most of all Billy. Gone was the energetic Billy from earlier seasons. I'm not sure about the behind-the-scenes antics at this point, but it felt as if Shue had pretty much just checked out. I will be forever sad that Billy didn't dump Sam and Jennifer both and leave for Atlanta to win Alison back. When I was watching one of the earlier seasons, I accidentally saw a photo of S6, that showed Billy with a brunette. I didn't see her well, because I looked away once I realized it was a S6 pic. It must have been Sam, though I didn't know her at the time. Although I tried to stay out of spoilers, I had a pretty good idea that much of the cast was leaving at some point, but I was also pretty certain that Shue would stick around longer than most. Therefore, much as I wanted Billy/Alison together, I knew there was a possiblity that Billy would need to move on from Alison at some point. For some reason, I thought the brunette could have been Jo (little did I know she'd be gone before Alison), and now I will forever be wondering what a Billy/Jo pairing would have been like. I loved Jake/Jo as much as I did Billy/Alison, but if Jake and Alison had both left and Jo had stayed I could have gotten on board with that pairing. It certainly seems like a more lively one than his marriages to Brooke and Sam. Speaking of missed opportunities, I wish more would have been made out of the character of Celeste. I know between Sydney, Jennifer, Jess, Meredith and Ryan we have had our share of Melrose siblings, but I can't help but wonder what their dynamic would have been like. I remember they brought back Billy's mother for his wedding to Sam, but she had turned into a bitter shrew, unwilling to accept Sam (although maybe she had a point on that one... wasn't she kind of still sold on Alison as Billy's partner?). I also would have liked to see more of the friendship between Billy and Matt.
  16. As I mentioned a bit earlier, I have been going over some TV listings in historical newspapers that can be browsed online. I have started a brand new file, in which I am slowly, but surely retracing all of my steps, to ensure that no mistakes are made. That will obviously take some time (but it's also surprisingly fun). I'm systematically going over some of the major recurring pre-emptions, to see when they started, leading to some surprising and interesting finds. First up: the US Open. For as long as I can remember, the show was always pre-empted on the Monday and Friday of the first full week of September. I knew those pre-emptions date back to the late 80's at least, because nearly all of September 1989 is on YT. I already had those pre-emptions verified from 1987 onwards, with no idea as to how much longer they had been going on. I did find somewhere that CBS aired the US Open from 1968 onwards, but it said nothing about specific dates or pre-emptions. The newspapers I've found have led to some discoveries. First off, there was a period in which only the Monday was pre-empted, not the Friday. I found the Friday to have been pre-empted from 1982 onwards, while the episode aired regularly in 1981. The Mondays were pre-empted a lot longer. I found it was pre-empted in 1977, but not in 1972. The years in between are a bit more vague, unfortunately, but my current hypothesis is that the Monday episode was pre-empted from 1976 onwards, while it aired in 1975 and before. Having said that, I'm still trying to get used to reading American TV listings (which, honestly, are quite complicated). I wonder if someone with more experience could shed some light on the clipping below, from the September 5, 1976 edition of a paper called The Journal. As you'll see, it lists As The World Turns in the 1.30 timeslot twice: once with the number 3 in front of it, and once with the number 7 (in black ánd in white) in front of it. I'm assuming these are different stations/affiliates? The latter listing clearly states that the show would be pre-empted on Monday September 6, 1976. The former listing seems to suggest it aired all week. What I think this means, is that on the the show was pre-empted on some stations/affiliates, while airing regularly on others. If that is the case, I'm assuming I shoudn't count the pre-emption, as a new episode did air (just not on all stations/affiliates). I would be super thankful if someone could help me decipher this. .
  17. 6. Matt Fielding (Doug Savant) Despite Matt being treated like a side character for most of his run, I always really liked Matt. The character obviously suffered from the fact that it was not yet widely accepted to display gay relationships on a television show in the 90s. It is downright ridiculous that Matt and his many love interests were never shown doing more than hold hands. Although it is easy nowadays to frown upon any such portrayals, I am a big believer that these things need to be seen in their historical context. I was actually quite surprised at how ahead of its time some of the early storytelling with Matt was (although that did diminish a bit as the series continued). I loved that there was no "big reveal" surrounding Matt's sexuality. It's possible that I missed something, but if I recall correctly, Matt made a comment in the pilot or second episode that could be taken several ways, but other than that, his sexuality was not yet made explicit. When it was (a few episodes into the series, I believe) it was just a casual thing. Which makes total sense, because these other characters had been living with him for some time and would have obviously known, even if the audience didn't. Again, it's possible that I'm misremembering some of this, but I remember being quite impressed at the time. I wasn't watching in the 90s, but I felt like Matt, as a gay series regular, would have been a major step towards progress in television. Unfortunately, the show soon decided to have him marry Katya for a green card, which was honestly downright ridiculous in my opinion. I understand they weren't able to show him in a same-sex relationship, but to have him marry a woman seemed a bit like undoing all that progress. I was very happy when the show actually allowed him to have a relationship with Jeffrey. This is an opinion I haven't really heard in this thread yet, but I really loved Matt/Jeffrey, even despite the fact that they only held hands. I was glad to see him return in S3. Unfortunately, none of Matt's other relationships did much to me. Billy's friend could have been interesting, because of the ties to Billy, but it was never really picked up on. Paul was a psycho. Alan was ok, but nothing more than that. Once again, they had a gay character (Alan) marry a woman for convenience. I remember some guy Matt got close to while Alan was married, but was never much more into that relationship. Then there was the shrink (David? Dan?), who was downright creepy as well. I also remember a guy (I'm gonna say Tom?) who helped Matt while he was fired because of his sexuality. I don't think the show ever went there, but I think beside Jeffrey he had the best chemistry with DS. I feel like at some point the show just gave up on introducing love interests for Matt and saddled him with his niece instead. Matt's family storylines were always a bit hit-or-miss for me. His struggles with his parents were interesting at first, but his mother fighting him over custody of Chelsea was terrible. I never really warmed to Chelsea in general, and it didn't help that Matt's brother was never even mentioned before he suddenly died and left Chelsea to Matt. I did somehwat like the sparring between DS and Nancy Lee Grahn in that storyline, but it was obvious that Matt was on the way out at that point (I'm actually surprised to read that Matt had a deal in place for S6, even if it does help explain that appearance in the season premiere, which always struck me as odd). As I mentioned in a previous post, I always loved Matt's work at the shelter in S1. Matt was always into helping other people much more than getting personal gain. I was sad to see him fired and move on to the hospital, and it made zero sense when he suddenly revealed he had wanted to become a doctor all his life. I was also never a big fan of Michael (more on that shortly), and was sad when, for the longest time, he became Matt's sole tie to the rest of the show. In never understood why Matt stayed loyal to Michael, even after Michael has screwed him over time and again. Finally, the decision in S7, after both Matt and DS had been gone from the show for some time, to kill off Matt off-screen, just to launch a new storyline off of his diary made absolutely no sense whatsoever and was an insult to fans of the original characters of the show. -- I actually do it with every show that I watch. I love how at random moments throughout the week I find myself thinking about the storylines and speculating on what will happen next. And the feeling I get when I'm about to end a show (especially if there are flashbacks/throwbacks/surprise returns) is just something I can't quite describe. Plus: that's the way these shows were meant to be watched. I also took a bit longer (8 years) than real time with MP, because of some of the lows. And it's always funny, because I consider myself a HUGE television buff, but whenever I talk to someone, they have always seen many more shows, because they watch one season a day. Also, they shows they list are always the popular shows of the day (Game Of Thrones; Breaking Bad; House Of Cards), and I am always much more interested in shows that have long been over and would never even be considered by those people, like Melrose Place. About ten years ago (before binge watching became the hot word) I watched one show (The O.C.) at a one-episode-a-day speed, but I find that that show has stayed with me much less than the others. The experience is truly so different. For the life of me, I can't figure out why EVERYONE is into binge watching these days.
  18. 5. Jake Hanson (Grant Show) I really like S1 Jake. The "bad boy" with the heart of gold. It's interesting to me how the character seemingly falls within the same archetypical realm as Dylan McKay, and yet both Jake and Dylan are very much their own character. I liked a lot of Jake's standalone stories in S1, like when he found out about David, or when an ex-girlfriend showed up with the message that she had AIDS. I also really liked seeing Jake's struggles, especially when it came to what he wanted to do with his life. On a show that had so many characters that were very career-driven (Alison, Amanda) or had big dreams (Billy), it was nice to see someone who didn't quite figure out what he was meant to do. I remember him being very self-aware, knowing that he was better off working with his hands instead of his head, but also knowing that that provided him with fewer opportunities in life. Once Jo entered the show, she really brought out the best in him. I absolutely loved Jake/Jo, and just like with Billy/Alison, I'm very sad that they didn't end up together. I loved how, even when they weren't dating, he was always there for her (like when she had/gave up her baby). I always found it quite funny that by season 3, Jake had been with nearly every female regular on the show: Sandy, Jo, Amanda, Sydney, Jane. He'd had that one-off with Alison in S1, which was obviously expanded upon in S5. There's a hilarious moment in one of the cast interviews where Grant tells Daphne "I kissed you the most and I liked it the most", upon which Courtney, Heather, Laura and Josie are all like "Hey!" . Although I totally bought that Jake would hook up with Amanda, I never bought that as a longer-lasting relationship, as she was so high maintenance. Especially when her father got involved, I would have expected Jake to bow out. The Jake/Jane and Jake/Sydney relationships were not terrible, but they always paled in comparison to Jake/Jo. As I have said in my previous post, I, like many of you, did not enjoy the Jake/Alison marriage in the slightest. As I'm typing this, I am racking my brain trying to remember what Jake was up to in S4. For some reason, I'm coming up completely empty. By the end of that season, I believe he was dating Jane, and then moved on to Alison when Jane shut both of them out after the rape. But if I recall correcly, Jane was with Richard for at least half of that season. I do vaguely remember Jess' wife showing up for a boring storyline that lasted way too long, but I can't imagine that's all he's been up to in that season. Speaking of Jess, I never bought Jake and Jess as brothers, not even as estranged ones. It never felt that they had anything in common. As a result of all of this, I feel like I slowly stopped caring about Jake after S3, which is sad, because he'd been such an important part of the show in those early days. By the end of S5, I felt like Alison could have stuck around on the show and become interesting again, whereas the moment had passed for Jake. Although I would have preferred him ending up with Jo, it was a nice touch to have him reunite with his son.
  19. I just saw that IMDB has it spelled Allison. Maybe that's what kept throwing me off. Which one? Or all three?
  20. 4. Alison Parker Armstrong Hanson (Courtney Thorne-Smith) (Side-note: has the show ever been consistent in the spelling of Alison/Allison's name? I feel like every time I convinced myself it was Alison, I saw something that said Allison, and vice versa.) I really love the description of Alison, at least in the early seasons, as the heart of the show. Although the show has clearly always been an ensemble show, I remember thinking back in S1 that there were three characters that you could reasonably think of as the show's "main character". Jake transported us from 90210 to MP. Billy was the new guy, through whose eyes we got to know the other characters. But Alison was the first character (save for Natalie) whom we saw on the show. (Another side-note: I briefly mentioned the alternate endings earlier, but I also LOVE the idea of Natalie returning at the very end to find that everyone's gone. Much more of a full-circle moment than we ended up getting). I could see how Alison would possibly not be everyone's cup of tea, especially when compared to much flashier characters like Amanda or Kimberly, but like Jane, she was a much more down-to-earth character that this show needed to balance the crazy. Having said that, I also loved her turn as a drunk in S3. I always loved Billy and Alison, and I am truly sad they did not end up together. I kept expecting Billy to dump both Sam and Jennifer and go to Atlanta to win Alison back, especially when she kept getting mentioned all of a sudden. Much like Jane, I feel like Alison suffered from terrible love interests aside from Billy. I never felt her romance with Keith, even before he went crazy. S2 gave us Steve, who wasn't much better. I liked seeing Brian Bloom on the show, but his character was never a good match for Alison, and the sports star she met in rehab (I forgot his name) always seemed like an absolute creep. Her romance with Hayley in S4 made absolutely no sense (I hate when shows have their good-looking female characters fall for men that could have easily been their father), but I surprisingly grew to like it over time. As a matter of fact, I think aside from Billy, Hayley is my favorite love interest for Alison. Much has been said about the marriage to Jake in S5, and I can only agree whole-heartedly. I'll never understand how the show completely ruined two core characters by having them completely isolated from everyone else. It is even more ironic because back in S1, they decided they were better off as friends. If only they had followed their own advice. I always loved the more career-driven Alison from earlier seasons. Obviously, her career suffered from her alcoholism, but her decisison to be content as a waitress at Shooters is completely infuriating (as I'm typing this, I'm wondering who ever thought it was a good idea to have a recovering alcoholic working at a bar... was that ever addressed on the show? I can't remember). Although it seemingly made little sense to break up Jake/Alison, as they were both leaving the show, I was always glad they did. I loved the small send-off she got with Billy at the airport and the idea that she would be re-focusing her career over in Atlanta. I also really loved the storylines surrounding Alison's family. The reveal about her father was very soapy, but I thought it was quite well done. I also loved the scenes between Alison and Meredith, and wished the show had done more with that (although having Meredith come on to Billy was a bit much). The one thing that bugs me, as a name nerd, is that Alison's mother never got a first name. I believe every other parent got one, so why not her. Another soapy storyline, and on that CTS mentioned in an interview she liked a lot, was her temporary blindness following Kimberly's bomb. I have to say that storyline was a bit too rushed, as well as a bit too obvious, for my taste. I would have liked more of an aftermath between Alison/Kimberly, as she was one of the only characters who actually suffered from the bombing (and also one of the few characters who hadn't interacted with Kimberly very much yet). I'm really glad to hear that CTS has worked pretty steadily following her departure from MP, and I hope to see her in another show soon. I might need to watch Ally McBeal, According To Jim or Two And A Half Men now. Also, I'm happy to hear that's she's always spoken lovingly about the show.
  21. @Paul Raven I'm super thankful, as always, for all the info you provide! I'll add these in as soon as I have a moment. Keep up the good work.
  22. 3. Jane Andrews Mancini Mancini (Josie Bissett) I'm a big believer that when you're going to have such larger-than-life characters as Kimberly, Amanda and Michael, you're going to need to balance that out with a few more down-to-earth characters. To me, Jane (along with a few others) is that type of character. I've generally always liked her. It's interesting to me that Jane is remembered in this thread as a bitchy character, as she was only that character for a very brief stint in early season 5. More than anything, the word 'victim' comes to mind when I think of Jane. I felt bad for her, because I felt that she kept being victimized. Jane is also one of several female characters on the show that - in my opinion - suffered from a string of terrible love interests (Chris, Richard, Alex). I liked how they included a married couple at the start of the show, and how they upended (at least my) expectations by not even having their marriage survive the first season. I vividly remember Jane (in a red outfit, which I randomly remember) confronting Kimberly (and/or Michael) at the hospital towards late S1/early S2. One of my favorite Jane scenes. Back then, Jane was done with Michael. Period. I wish it had stayed that way. Next was Robert, whom I actually liked. Although he is not blameless in falling for Michael's trap, I wish Jane would have given him another chance (lord knows she gave Michael plenty of other chances). Then came Chris, who turned out to be a horrible creep, followed by Richard, who turned out to be an even bigger creep. I agree that Richard/Jane in late S3 were somewhat interesting, but that waned quickly and the whole Jane/Richard/Jo triangle was the worst. I will say that I was shocked when Richard actually raped Jane. I'd seen plenty of storylines about women who had been raped in the past, but I don't think I had ever actually seen it unfold in the present. I remember thinking that the show had really crossed a line that it couldn't uncross. I'm surprised that the whole thing didn't turn into a much bigger deal on the show. It does pave the way for the colder, bitchier version of Jane in S5. The buried alive story was a bit over the top for my taste. I was never a big Jake/Jane fan (am I correct in remembering they were together for a hot minute during the Sydney/cult storyline in S3, before their relationship in S4/S5?). I'm not sure if that actually had anything to do with the characters, or that it simply bothered me that their names are only one letter apart. I liked the return of a more mellow Jane in her exit storyline, when she found her birth mother. As I said before, while I liked seeing her again in S7, I feel like the storylines were dumb. Her getting back together with Michael after everything was downright frustrating, Alex wasn't much better, and I personally wasn't feeling her rushed ending with Kyle, although she deserved a good guy for once, which Kyle definitely was. I always liked Jane much more in the non-romantic storylines. I absolutely loved her dynamic with Sydney, whether they were friends or foes. I also really loved following her career trajectory. This was back in the days when people were allowed to work in a place that was not either an advertising agency or a hospital. From working at a boutique, to working for Kay, to starting her own line, to fusing into Hart-Mancini, to owning her own boutique, it is the sort of career path that I was expecting to see when I started watching a show about 8 twentysomethings. When she returned in S7 and started working for AWA, only to end up working in a flower shop it was just disrespectful to the character's history. Speaking of disrespecting history, there were two moments in S7 (when she and Michael were going to adopt Michael/Taylor's baby; when she ended up pregnant with Michael's child) when it would have been nice to hear a reference to the child she and Michael had lost in S1. I know somewhere in this thread someone mentioned not having seen S1 initially, and being shocked to find out about the baby). Finally, I'm a bit obsessed with character names on television shows, and I found it quite off-putting that Jane kept being referred to as Jane Mancini throughout the show's run (although I guess at least we know her maiden name. There is a bigger offender here coming up). I don't think she started making it as a designer until after she divorced Michael. If she had made a name for herself in the design world, it would make at least some sense that she wouldn't want to change it. But after that whole ordeal with Michael I just dind't understand why she would keep the name. It led to both Syd and Jane being Mrs. Mancini (wasn't there an episode title referring to that fact at some point), which always felt a bit idiotic to me. -- I agree with you about Alycia. One of the better guest stars the show has had. Would have loved to see her in other storylines. I have a slightly different take on Caitlin, much as I love Jasmine Guy, which I'll get into in my Peter post (or probably will already at least touch upon in my Amanda post)
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