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Everything posted by Brolden

  1. 9. Jo _____ Reynolds (Daphne Zuniga) I have a confession to make: There are two reasons why I originally started watching MP. The first is that I'd been watching Beverly Hills, 90210 up to the point where it spun off, and I figured I'd check out what Kelly, Steve, David, Donna, and Jake would be up to in the spin-off. The second (although really the first) reason was that I love One Tree Hill, and I'd really enjoyed Daphne Zuniga on that show to the point where I wanted to check out her other major televsion role. You know, the popular story is that Heather Locklear saved this show. I wouldn't even say that's totally incorrect (more on that in the next post). But like some of you have argued, it was really multiple things coming together that saved this show. Certainly, Marcia Cross and Laura Leighton did their parts. But I would argue that it all started with the arrival of Daphne's Jo halfway through Season 1. She was just such a breath of fresh air. I absolutely loved her layered perfomance of Jo as the tough chick with a heart of gold and a ton of insecureties. And, like many others and as I have mentioned previously, I absolutely loved Jake & Jo. I always felt that they both really brought something unique to that relationship and they really complemented each other well. Unfortunately, the same can not be said for her other love interests. As a matter of fact, Jo is the third female regular (following Jane and Alison) that, in my opinion, really suffered from being put with terrible male love interests. First, there was her husband Charles "Brett Cooper" Reynolds. Obviously, he represented her past and was specifically meant to be a terrible love interest. One thing that bothers me to no end, however, is that Jo went by "Reynolds" for the rest of the series. We never even learned her maiden name. With Jane, I can still sort of imagine that she'd keep Michael's name, as she had used it to make a name for herself in the fashion world. But why on earth would Jo keep going by the name Reynolds? I believe Jo dated Parker for a bit in S2, but I don't think that pairing was any less terrible than the Parker/Alison one. Reid turned into a psycho real fast. Jess was probably even worse. Or maybe Richard was the worst? I didn't fully hate Dominick, but I absolutely didn't like him, or their pairing, either. One thing that I did appreciate is the time in between Reid and Jess, when Jo was on her own and dealing with the pregnancy and the baby. The rivalry with Kimberly was amazing, and when Jo finally decided to give up the baby, it was quite heartbreaking. I also really love the way Jake was there for her as a friend during that time. Another thing I found fascinating was the gun. Storylines like those are always a bit jarring for me as a non-American, but it's really interesting how they seemed to be addressing the polarizing gun issue (with some of our favorite apartment inhabitants being really against Jo's owning a gun, but Jo really relying on it), which seems ahead-of-its-time. I believe DZ has been outspoken in favor of gun control on social media in recent years, so I wonder how she looks back on those stories. Someone remind me: did we ever meet Jo's father. I remember he was involved in some capacity when Charles followed her to L.A., but I think it was just in the shape of phone calls, without us actually seeing him? I would have loved to have seen him brought in later on. The scenes where Jo spoke about her mother's death were always quite touching to me. As I said in the previous post, I was completely unprepared for Jo to be gone after season 4. Since she was one of the later additions, I had expected her to stick around a bit longer. Even when she left for Bosnia with Dominick at the end of S4, I fully expected her to back in S5. It was while the opening credits to S5 were rolling that I realized I'd seen the last of her. It's a shame she was on the show for such a short time. I also think it's a shame that she wasn't mentioned much after she left (at least as far as I remember).
  2. Oof, sorry it's been a minute guys, it's been a crazy week. I'm really happy to hear my posts are making you all want to rewatch the show. Hell, your responses are making me want to rewatch the show, and I have only just finished it. -- 8. Dr. Michael Mancini (Thomas Calabro) Let me start by saying that I have the utmost respect for Thomas Calabro for being the only cast member that stuck with the show from beginning to end, and I appreaciate the character of Michael for the same reason: being the constant on the show. I remember reading that tidbit while I was in the middle of (I think) S3, when everyone was still there (save for Sandy and Rhonda), and just thinking it must have been a mistake. (I also started thinking then that characters like Amanda, Jo, Sydney and Kimberly would be used to fill the void, so when Jo left before anyone else even did, I was quite shocked). I've hinted at it before, and I know it's an unpopular opinion, but I wasn't the biggest fan of Michael. I liked him somewhat better during the earlier seasons, but even then, I wasn't a big fan. I'm always very fascinated by characters that are supposed to be "the villain" or "evil", because there are so many different types. I never thought of Michael as pure evil, perhaps not even a real villain. He was just an unsympathetic, morally bankrupt character. But here's the thing: a few years ago, I started thinking about th concept of "love to hate". There are some characters that within the universe of the story, you absolutely want to strangle. But as a viewer, you are rooting for that character to keep being brought back, you are a fan of the actor. On Melrose Place, I think Kimberly is probably the best example of this kind of characters (I suppose Amanda had her moments as well, although she was perhaps written too sympathetically to really embody this). When she appeared in that courtyard with that remote control, I simultaneously wanted her to press that button and to not press that button. When she appeared on that beach outside Michael's place, I cheered. When Michael appeared on the screen in one of his antics, I usually just rolled my eyes. Even in those earlier seasons, I felt like his storylines often went a bit over the top, although it was a far stretch from the cartoon character he would become later on. One of my biggest issues was that those he had victitmized the most kept letting him back in. Jane returned to him twice. Sydney's life would have been so very different (although perhaps less interesting) if she hadn't been obsessed with Michael so very long. I can't for the life of me figure out why Matt kept being his friend to the end. By season 6/7, he would be invited to bachelor parties, for characters that he had barely interacted with, even though he was not living in the building. Speaking of the later seasons, I was glad they finally introduced his mother in season 6, but I feel like they didn't really squeeze any story out of that potential. Since Michael was such a macho, I would have been interested to see his father as well, and thought it was a missed opportunity he was never seen. I'm not sure, but I would swear that a brother was mentioned at some point in S1/S2, but I guess with the introduction of Jennifer (and the precedent of Jane's brother being turned into a sister), they might have changed that backstory. One thing I will say: they really did keep me on my toes when it came to Michael's endgame. Since Michael and Jane were the resident couple at the start of the series, I was originally expecting them to go through a lot during the series, but end up together in the end. Even when Michael had his affair, I was expecting them to move past it and stay together. When they did break up and paired Michael with Kimberly, I started thinking that those two would end up together (they certainly seemed made for each other) and that Jane was permanently through with Michael. Unfortunately, I had seen promotional material of Kimberly in later seasons, so I never bought into her death. I never bought Sydney as endgame for Michael, nor did I buy Jane's brief return to Michael post-accident, and that time when Michael and Amanda were together has always felt (both at the time and in retrospect) really strange to me. By the time Michael and Kimberly got back together after the bomb, I was fully expecting them to be endgame. Then Jane and Kimberly both left (well, Jane left and Kimberly died) around the same time in S5, and Kimberly hand-picked Megan to be her successor. Since the only two women I had ever bought as endgame for Michael were now gone, and Michael and Megan seemed quite isolated from the rest there for a while, I started thinking she would be his endgame. When they spent nearly all of S6 apart, I kept expecting them to return to each other in the end. It wasn't until Ryan was introduced that I realized Megan was definitely not ending up with Michael. Although Michael spent most of S7 with Jane, I didn't buy them as endgame (I would have actually been very pissed if they had been). It was around this time, halfway through S7 that I accidentally found out Michael would be with Lexie at some point (in this thread, actually, that's the spoiler I mentioned in my original post months ago). Although I hadn't seen them together yet, I immediately realized that that pairing would work, which was confirmed when I did see them together. I went into the finale fully expecting them to end up together, only to be proven wrong one last time. I'm not mad that they didn't end up together. Neither of them is the type for forever. But Michael's final scene with that slutty nurse, although it made sense for the character, was extremely eyeroll-inducing.
  3. Per your own list, Susan Pellegrino was also on ATWT as Pamela _____ Thompson, and Matthew Del Negro was Frank, who liked Rose in 2000.
  4. April 12 was a Saturday April 16 was a Sunday
  5. I always felt like nearly everyone was 2-3 years out of college (age, at least. Whether they actually attended is another matter), with the exception of Billy, who was completely fresh out of college. I could easily be wrong though. Whoa, I have zero memory of this. More regular-by-regular takes are coming up, when I have a moment.
  6. That's how I'll regard it for now. Count it as an aired episode, with some people/areas missing out on it. This has got to be 1998... right?
  7. 7. Billy Campbell (Andrew Shue) I think I'm about to say something quite controversial, but I honestly never minded Shue's acting much, especially in the early seasons. Like I said previously, Billy was the new guy, through whose eyes we were meant to see the other inhabitants of the apartment building. But additionally, I always saw Billy as bringing some youthful energy to the show. I'm not sure if this was ever stated on the show, but I always imagined Billy as fresh out of college, living on his own for the first time, while most of the others had already been out of college for a few years at least. His outfits in S1 certainly reflected that, and even in his storylines he always seemed a bit naïve. I always loved his aspiration to write the next Great American Novel, which was clearly forgotten about in later seasons. He also felt like the Brandon Walsh in S1, who needed to learn a new moral every episode (I swear, both Brandon and Billy went out with a girl who turned out to have a young child in the first seasons of their shows, confronting them with their own feelings about becoming a parent one day). I frickin' loved Billy/Alison, as friends, as roommates, and of course as a couple. Having said that, I didn't hate Billy/Amanda, and I absolutely love the lasting friendship that came out of that pairing. I think Billy started changing somewhere in S2, losing some of his youthful energy, especially when he was brought into D&D. He started to wear suits all the time, and he never mentioned writing ever again. When Brooke was brought on in late S3 and started seeing Billy, I felt like she temporarily brought some of that youthfulness (sorry for overusing that word) back to him. I remember a scene between Billy/Brooke at the pier (I think it might be when they decided to get married), where we saw Billy in casual clothes again, which just made him seem less up-tight overall. However, once S4 started, I didn't like the Billy/Brooke pairing at all, to the point where it became downright pathetic the lengths she would go to to hold on to him. I skipped over Billy's relationshop with Susan in S3, which was OK, but mostly just NOT Billy/Alison. I think I may have liked Billy/Sam for a second in very early S5, but like Brooke and Susan, she was simply not Alison. That marriage grew tedious as hell, first with the storyline surrounding her father (which took way too long) and then the quadrangle with Billy/Sam/Jeff/Jennifer, which has to be the number 1 most boring storyline the show has had. All of the characters became unrecognizable, most of all Billy. Gone was the energetic Billy from earlier seasons. I'm not sure about the behind-the-scenes antics at this point, but it felt as if Shue had pretty much just checked out. I will be forever sad that Billy didn't dump Sam and Jennifer both and leave for Atlanta to win Alison back. When I was watching one of the earlier seasons, I accidentally saw a photo of S6, that showed Billy with a brunette. I didn't see her well, because I looked away once I realized it was a S6 pic. It must have been Sam, though I didn't know her at the time. Although I tried to stay out of spoilers, I had a pretty good idea that much of the cast was leaving at some point, but I was also pretty certain that Shue would stick around longer than most. Therefore, much as I wanted Billy/Alison together, I knew there was a possiblity that Billy would need to move on from Alison at some point. For some reason, I thought the brunette could have been Jo (little did I know she'd be gone before Alison), and now I will forever be wondering what a Billy/Jo pairing would have been like. I loved Jake/Jo as much as I did Billy/Alison, but if Jake and Alison had both left and Jo had stayed I could have gotten on board with that pairing. It certainly seems like a more lively one than his marriages to Brooke and Sam. Speaking of missed opportunities, I wish more would have been made out of the character of Celeste. I know between Sydney, Jennifer, Jess, Meredith and Ryan we have had our share of Melrose siblings, but I can't help but wonder what their dynamic would have been like. I remember they brought back Billy's mother for his wedding to Sam, but she had turned into a bitter shrew, unwilling to accept Sam (although maybe she had a point on that one... wasn't she kind of still sold on Alison as Billy's partner?). I also would have liked to see more of the friendship between Billy and Matt.
  8. As I mentioned a bit earlier, I have been going over some TV listings in historical newspapers that can be browsed online. I have started a brand new file, in which I am slowly, but surely retracing all of my steps, to ensure that no mistakes are made. That will obviously take some time (but it's also surprisingly fun). I'm systematically going over some of the major recurring pre-emptions, to see when they started, leading to some surprising and interesting finds. First up: the US Open. For as long as I can remember, the show was always pre-empted on the Monday and Friday of the first full week of September. I knew those pre-emptions date back to the late 80's at least, because nearly all of September 1989 is on YT. I already had those pre-emptions verified from 1987 onwards, with no idea as to how much longer they had been going on. I did find somewhere that CBS aired the US Open from 1968 onwards, but it said nothing about specific dates or pre-emptions. The newspapers I've found have led to some discoveries. First off, there was a period in which only the Monday was pre-empted, not the Friday. I found the Friday to have been pre-empted from 1982 onwards, while the episode aired regularly in 1981. The Mondays were pre-empted a lot longer. I found it was pre-empted in 1977, but not in 1972. The years in between are a bit more vague, unfortunately, but my current hypothesis is that the Monday episode was pre-empted from 1976 onwards, while it aired in 1975 and before. Having said that, I'm still trying to get used to reading American TV listings (which, honestly, are quite complicated). I wonder if someone with more experience could shed some light on the clipping below, from the September 5, 1976 edition of a paper called The Journal. As you'll see, it lists As The World Turns in the 1.30 timeslot twice: once with the number 3 in front of it, and once with the number 7 (in black ánd in white) in front of it. I'm assuming these are different stations/affiliates? The latter listing clearly states that the show would be pre-empted on Monday September 6, 1976. The former listing seems to suggest it aired all week. What I think this means, is that on the the show was pre-empted on some stations/affiliates, while airing regularly on others. If that is the case, I'm assuming I shoudn't count the pre-emption, as a new episode did air (just not on all stations/affiliates). I would be super thankful if someone could help me decipher this. .
  9. 6. Matt Fielding (Doug Savant) Despite Matt being treated like a side character for most of his run, I always really liked Matt. The character obviously suffered from the fact that it was not yet widely accepted to display gay relationships on a television show in the 90s. It is downright ridiculous that Matt and his many love interests were never shown doing more than hold hands. Although it is easy nowadays to frown upon any such portrayals, I am a big believer that these things need to be seen in their historical context. I was actually quite surprised at how ahead of its time some of the early storytelling with Matt was (although that did diminish a bit as the series continued). I loved that there was no "big reveal" surrounding Matt's sexuality. It's possible that I missed something, but if I recall correctly, Matt made a comment in the pilot or second episode that could be taken several ways, but other than that, his sexuality was not yet made explicit. When it was (a few episodes into the series, I believe) it was just a casual thing. Which makes total sense, because these other characters had been living with him for some time and would have obviously known, even if the audience didn't. Again, it's possible that I'm misremembering some of this, but I remember being quite impressed at the time. I wasn't watching in the 90s, but I felt like Matt, as a gay series regular, would have been a major step towards progress in television. Unfortunately, the show soon decided to have him marry Katya for a green card, which was honestly downright ridiculous in my opinion. I understand they weren't able to show him in a same-sex relationship, but to have him marry a woman seemed a bit like undoing all that progress. I was very happy when the show actually allowed him to have a relationship with Jeffrey. This is an opinion I haven't really heard in this thread yet, but I really loved Matt/Jeffrey, even despite the fact that they only held hands. I was glad to see him return in S3. Unfortunately, none of Matt's other relationships did much to me. Billy's friend could have been interesting, because of the ties to Billy, but it was never really picked up on. Paul was a psycho. Alan was ok, but nothing more than that. Once again, they had a gay character (Alan) marry a woman for convenience. I remember some guy Matt got close to while Alan was married, but was never much more into that relationship. Then there was the shrink (David? Dan?), who was downright creepy as well. I also remember a guy (I'm gonna say Tom?) who helped Matt while he was fired because of his sexuality. I don't think the show ever went there, but I think beside Jeffrey he had the best chemistry with DS. I feel like at some point the show just gave up on introducing love interests for Matt and saddled him with his niece instead. Matt's family storylines were always a bit hit-or-miss for me. His struggles with his parents were interesting at first, but his mother fighting him over custody of Chelsea was terrible. I never really warmed to Chelsea in general, and it didn't help that Matt's brother was never even mentioned before he suddenly died and left Chelsea to Matt. I did somehwat like the sparring between DS and Nancy Lee Grahn in that storyline, but it was obvious that Matt was on the way out at that point (I'm actually surprised to read that Matt had a deal in place for S6, even if it does help explain that appearance in the season premiere, which always struck me as odd). As I mentioned in a previous post, I always loved Matt's work at the shelter in S1. Matt was always into helping other people much more than getting personal gain. I was sad to see him fired and move on to the hospital, and it made zero sense when he suddenly revealed he had wanted to become a doctor all his life. I was also never a big fan of Michael (more on that shortly), and was sad when, for the longest time, he became Matt's sole tie to the rest of the show. In never understood why Matt stayed loyal to Michael, even after Michael has screwed him over time and again. Finally, the decision in S7, after both Matt and DS had been gone from the show for some time, to kill off Matt off-screen, just to launch a new storyline off of his diary made absolutely no sense whatsoever and was an insult to fans of the original characters of the show. -- I actually do it with every show that I watch. I love how at random moments throughout the week I find myself thinking about the storylines and speculating on what will happen next. And the feeling I get when I'm about to end a show (especially if there are flashbacks/throwbacks/surprise returns) is just something I can't quite describe. Plus: that's the way these shows were meant to be watched. I also took a bit longer (8 years) than real time with MP, because of some of the lows. And it's always funny, because I consider myself a HUGE television buff, but whenever I talk to someone, they have always seen many more shows, because they watch one season a day. Also, they shows they list are always the popular shows of the day (Game Of Thrones; Breaking Bad; House Of Cards), and I am always much more interested in shows that have long been over and would never even be considered by those people, like Melrose Place. About ten years ago (before binge watching became the hot word) I watched one show (The O.C.) at a one-episode-a-day speed, but I find that that show has stayed with me much less than the others. The experience is truly so different. For the life of me, I can't figure out why EVERYONE is into binge watching these days.
  10. 5. Jake Hanson (Grant Show) I really like S1 Jake. The "bad boy" with the heart of gold. It's interesting to me how the character seemingly falls within the same archetypical realm as Dylan McKay, and yet both Jake and Dylan are very much their own character. I liked a lot of Jake's standalone stories in S1, like when he found out about David, or when an ex-girlfriend showed up with the message that she had AIDS. I also really liked seeing Jake's struggles, especially when it came to what he wanted to do with his life. On a show that had so many characters that were very career-driven (Alison, Amanda) or had big dreams (Billy), it was nice to see someone who didn't quite figure out what he was meant to do. I remember him being very self-aware, knowing that he was better off working with his hands instead of his head, but also knowing that that provided him with fewer opportunities in life. Once Jo entered the show, she really brought out the best in him. I absolutely loved Jake/Jo, and just like with Billy/Alison, I'm very sad that they didn't end up together. I loved how, even when they weren't dating, he was always there for her (like when she had/gave up her baby). I always found it quite funny that by season 3, Jake had been with nearly every female regular on the show: Sandy, Jo, Amanda, Sydney, Jane. He'd had that one-off with Alison in S1, which was obviously expanded upon in S5. There's a hilarious moment in one of the cast interviews where Grant tells Daphne "I kissed you the most and I liked it the most", upon which Courtney, Heather, Laura and Josie are all like "Hey!" 🤣. Although I totally bought that Jake would hook up with Amanda, I never bought that as a longer-lasting relationship, as she was so high maintenance. Especially when her father got involved, I would have expected Jake to bow out. The Jake/Jane and Jake/Sydney relationships were not terrible, but they always paled in comparison to Jake/Jo. As I have said in my previous post, I, like many of you, did not enjoy the Jake/Alison marriage in the slightest. As I'm typing this, I am racking my brain trying to remember what Jake was up to in S4. For some reason, I'm coming up completely empty. By the end of that season, I believe he was dating Jane, and then moved on to Alison when Jane shut both of them out after the rape. But if I recall correcly, Jane was with Richard for at least half of that season. I do vaguely remember Jess' wife showing up for a boring storyline that lasted way too long, but I can't imagine that's all he's been up to in that season. Speaking of Jess, I never bought Jake and Jess as brothers, not even as estranged ones. It never felt that they had anything in common. As a result of all of this, I feel like I slowly stopped caring about Jake after S3, which is sad, because he'd been such an important part of the show in those early days. By the end of S5, I felt like Alison could have stuck around on the show and become interesting again, whereas the moment had passed for Jake. Although I would have preferred him ending up with Jo, it was a nice touch to have him reunite with his son.
  11. I just saw that IMDB has it spelled Allison. Maybe that's what kept throwing me off. Which one? Or all three?
  12. 4. Alison Parker Armstrong Hanson (Courtney Thorne-Smith) (Side-note: has the show ever been consistent in the spelling of Alison/Allison's name? I feel like every time I convinced myself it was Alison, I saw something that said Allison, and vice versa.) I really love the description of Alison, at least in the early seasons, as the heart of the show. Although the show has clearly always been an ensemble show, I remember thinking back in S1 that there were three characters that you could reasonably think of as the show's "main character". Jake transported us from 90210 to MP. Billy was the new guy, through whose eyes we got to know the other characters. But Alison was the first character (save for Natalie) whom we saw on the show. (Another side-note: I briefly mentioned the alternate endings earlier, but I also LOVE the idea of Natalie returning at the very end to find that everyone's gone. Much more of a full-circle moment than we ended up getting). I could see how Alison would possibly not be everyone's cup of tea, especially when compared to much flashier characters like Amanda or Kimberly, but like Jane, she was a much more down-to-earth character that this show needed to balance the crazy. Having said that, I also loved her turn as a drunk in S3. I always loved Billy and Alison, and I am truly sad they did not end up together. I kept expecting Billy to dump both Sam and Jennifer and go to Atlanta to win Alison back, especially when she kept getting mentioned all of a sudden. Much like Jane, I feel like Alison suffered from terrible love interests aside from Billy. I never felt her romance with Keith, even before he went crazy. S2 gave us Steve, who wasn't much better. I liked seeing Brian Bloom on the show, but his character was never a good match for Alison, and the sports star she met in rehab (I forgot his name) always seemed like an absolute creep. Her romance with Hayley in S4 made absolutely no sense (I hate when shows have their good-looking female characters fall for men that could have easily been their father), but I surprisingly grew to like it over time. As a matter of fact, I think aside from Billy, Hayley is my favorite love interest for Alison. Much has been said about the marriage to Jake in S5, and I can only agree whole-heartedly. I'll never understand how the show completely ruined two core characters by having them completely isolated from everyone else. It is even more ironic because back in S1, they decided they were better off as friends. If only they had followed their own advice. I always loved the more career-driven Alison from earlier seasons. Obviously, her career suffered from her alcoholism, but her decisison to be content as a waitress at Shooters is completely infuriating (as I'm typing this, I'm wondering who ever thought it was a good idea to have a recovering alcoholic working at a bar... was that ever addressed on the show? I can't remember). Although it seemingly made little sense to break up Jake/Alison, as they were both leaving the show, I was always glad they did. I loved the small send-off she got with Billy at the airport and the idea that she would be re-focusing her career over in Atlanta. I also really loved the storylines surrounding Alison's family. The reveal about her father was very soapy, but I thought it was quite well done. I also loved the scenes between Alison and Meredith, and wished the show had done more with that (although having Meredith come on to Billy was a bit much). The one thing that bugs me, as a name nerd, is that Alison's mother never got a first name. I believe every other parent got one, so why not her. Another soapy storyline, and on that CTS mentioned in an interview she liked a lot, was her temporary blindness following Kimberly's bomb. I have to say that storyline was a bit too rushed, as well as a bit too obvious, for my taste. I would have liked more of an aftermath between Alison/Kimberly, as she was one of the only characters who actually suffered from the bombing (and also one of the few characters who hadn't interacted with Kimberly very much yet). I'm really glad to hear that CTS has worked pretty steadily following her departure from MP, and I hope to see her in another show soon. I might need to watch Ally McBeal, According To Jim or Two And A Half Men now. Also, I'm happy to hear that's she's always spoken lovingly about the show.
  13. @Paul Raven I'm super thankful, as always, for all the info you provide! I'll add these in as soon as I have a moment. Keep up the good work.
  14. 3. Jane Andrews Mancini Mancini (Josie Bissett) I'm a big believer that when you're going to have such larger-than-life characters as Kimberly, Amanda and Michael, you're going to need to balance that out with a few more down-to-earth characters. To me, Jane (along with a few others) is that type of character. I've generally always liked her. It's interesting to me that Jane is remembered in this thread as a bitchy character, as she was only that character for a very brief stint in early season 5. More than anything, the word 'victim' comes to mind when I think of Jane. I felt bad for her, because I felt that she kept being victimized. Jane is also one of several female characters on the show that - in my opinion - suffered from a string of terrible love interests (Chris, Richard, Alex). I liked how they included a married couple at the start of the show, and how they upended (at least my) expectations by not even having their marriage survive the first season. I vividly remember Jane (in a red outfit, which I randomly remember) confronting Kimberly (and/or Michael) at the hospital towards late S1/early S2. One of my favorite Jane scenes. Back then, Jane was done with Michael. Period. I wish it had stayed that way. Next was Robert, whom I actually liked. Although he is not blameless in falling for Michael's trap, I wish Jane would have given him another chance (lord knows she gave Michael plenty of other chances). Then came Chris, who turned out to be a horrible creep, followed by Richard, who turned out to be an even bigger creep. I agree that Richard/Jane in late S3 were somewhat interesting, but that waned quickly and the whole Jane/Richard/Jo triangle was the worst. I will say that I was shocked when Richard actually raped Jane. I'd seen plenty of storylines about women who had been raped in the past, but I don't think I had ever actually seen it unfold in the present. I remember thinking that the show had really crossed a line that it couldn't uncross. I'm surprised that the whole thing didn't turn into a much bigger deal on the show. It does pave the way for the colder, bitchier version of Jane in S5. The buried alive story was a bit over the top for my taste. I was never a big Jake/Jane fan (am I correct in remembering they were together for a hot minute during the Sydney/cult storyline in S3, before their relationship in S4/S5?). I'm not sure if that actually had anything to do with the characters, or that it simply bothered me that their names are only one letter apart. I liked the return of a more mellow Jane in her exit storyline, when she found her birth mother. As I said before, while I liked seeing her again in S7, I feel like the storylines were dumb. Her getting back together with Michael after everything was downright frustrating, Alex wasn't much better, and I personally wasn't feeling her rushed ending with Kyle, although she deserved a good guy for once, which Kyle definitely was. I always liked Jane much more in the non-romantic storylines. I absolutely loved her dynamic with Sydney, whether they were friends or foes. I also really loved following her career trajectory. This was back in the days when people were allowed to work in a place that was not either an advertising agency or a hospital. From working at a boutique, to working for Kay, to starting her own line, to fusing into Hart-Mancini, to owning her own boutique, it is the sort of career path that I was expecting to see when I started watching a show about 8 twentysomethings. When she returned in S7 and started working for AWA, only to end up working in a flower shop it was just disrespectful to the character's history. Speaking of disrespecting history, there were two moments in S7 (when she and Michael were going to adopt Michael/Taylor's baby; when she ended up pregnant with Michael's child) when it would have been nice to hear a reference to the child she and Michael had lost in S1. I know somewhere in this thread someone mentioned not having seen S1 initially, and being shocked to find out about the baby). Finally, I'm a bit obsessed with character names on television shows, and I found it quite off-putting that Jane kept being referred to as Jane Mancini throughout the show's run (although I guess at least we know her maiden name. There is a bigger offender here coming up). I don't think she started making it as a designer until after she divorced Michael. If she had made a name for herself in the design world, it would make at least some sense that she wouldn't want to change it. But after that whole ordeal with Michael I just dind't understand why she would keep the name. It led to both Syd and Jane being Mrs. Mancini (wasn't there an episode title referring to that fact at some point), which always felt a bit idiotic to me. -- I agree with you about Alycia. One of the better guest stars the show has had. Would have loved to see her in other storylines. I have a slightly different take on Caitlin, much as I love Jasmine Guy, which I'll get into in my Peter post (or probably will already at least touch upon in my Amanda post)
  15. munecojim has been uploading a lot recently. Mostly not new episodes though. ^ This episode, by my count, was not previously on YT.
  16. 2. Rhonda Blair (Haggard?) (Vanessa Williams) Personally, I never minded Rhonda all that much. I thought she fit well into the first incarnation of Melrose Place, at least for the first half of the season. It always seemed to me that around the time Sandy was written out, Rhonda was essentially written out as well. It's almost as if TPTB just felt it would be too much to have them both take off at once, so they kept Rhonda around until the end of the season. But they certainly stopped writing for her. Unlike Sandy, I don't think Rhonda would have worked well in the show MP would become, so utimately it was probably for the best that they let her go. I think Rhonda suffered greatly from the fact that they tied her down to Terrence so soon. It would have been interesting to see her in another relationship. It feels like an interracial relationship would have really fit with the whole social struggles theme they had going on back then. The one thing that bugs me to no end, however, is that she was not mentioned at all after her departure (actually, I think I recall a mention in one of the later seasons by someone like Amanda, which made little sense). Matt and Rhonda were supposed to be best friends. How easy would it have been to start a Matt scene by having him on the phone saying "I gotta go Rhonda, talk to you soon". I always found it interesting that on Beverly Hills, 90210 (I'm only on S8, so please don't spoil) they seemingly had an entire storyline going on in mentions only, as we found out through the remaining regulars that a certain former regular had made their way down to where a certain other former regular lived to resume a certain relationship). I'm not saying that's what MP should have done as well, but how difficult would it have been to mention some of these former regulars from time to time. In Rhonda's case, those mentions obviously would have waned over time, but in the beginning it was quite jarring. Though the show was definitely guilty of tokenism with both Rhonda and Matt, I do think it's a shame that the show never brought in another African-American (or any non-Caucasian, really) character following Rhonda's departure. -- I actually either didn't or at least don't remember. I'll pay attention to it once I rewatch. I definitely remember her having a strong southern accent, but I don't recall her dropping that accent.
  17. I swear I made a mental note to request Zach last week. Great minds... The reason I was going to request is because I saw that his IMDB page most infuriatingly lists him as having appeared in a 2009 ATWT episode, which most definitely did not happen. It just reminds me of how happy I am that we have out own Internet Soap Opera Database here. I'm telling you, you should trademark the name ISODB. 🤣 Roerig was on ATWT from January 2005, so while not impossible, I wouldn't imagine his GL stint to have been in 05. 04 seems more likely. Also, between The Vampire DIARIES (😉) and Legacies he played Matt Donovan on 1 episode of The Originals as well. I'm not sure if that show is among the ones you list. Could I now request his ATWT buddy Jesse Lee Soffer as well?
  18. 1. Sandy Harling (Amy Locane) What to say about Sandy? The funny thing is, because I've watched this show spread out over 8 years, the early stuff is actually quite blurry in my mind already. One major thing I realized yesterday is that I have lived with a misconception for the duration of my MP journey. Back in 2012 when I started, I read about Locane's manslaughter charges, but I guess I didn't read it quite thoroughly (fear of spoilers I'm sure), because I always understood that those charges actually dated back to 1992 and that was the reason she was written off the show. I was always surprised that she got a bit of a send-off, considering those circumstances. Only now do I realize that the whole incident happened years after the show had ended and had nothing to do with her prompt departure. She was written off because TPTB decided she wasn't working, I assume? She definitely felt like the odd one out in early S1. Ironically, I feel (as others have said) that she could have worked better in the later version of the show, as I felt Locane's acting was always a bit over the top. I wonder if they ever considered re-introducing her in a later version of the show. Honestly, the only things I remember about Sandy are her on-again-off-again thing with Jake (and subsequent "rivalry", if you can call it that, with Kelly), some sort of story about a stalker guy, and that one time she was hired to be the scream queen on some horror flick. I wouldn't say I minded her much, but I also wasn't necessarily a fan.
  19. I literally just found out that Bissett and Estes were married for quite some time and have kids together. Apologies to the both of them. I'm sure they had chemistry, it just didn't translate well onto the screen in my humble opinion. 😅
  20. Finally caught up fully on this thread. I agree with a lot of what's been said, and disagree with a few other things as well. I feel like I've been watching 3 or 4 separate shows, all of which were pretty great. S1 feels like the 90210-like, learning a moral lesson each week type of show. I know some people didn't really like it, but I did. S2-S4 was obviously peak MP, with the bombing of the place right in its center. The huge cast turnovers - not once, but twice - are a bit jarring, and the later seasons certainly suffered for it, although they still had their moments that made them watchable. S6 was a low. S7 was definitely more watchable, but I have a number of issues with it. I will comment more on the early seasons later, but since it's what I've seen the most recently, I want to go over S7 first. First of all, I had no idea until I read this thread that those first 7 episodes on the DVD were originally supposed to be part of S6. That makes so much more sense, as the shift 7 episodes into the season is quite jarring. For me, there are three major issues that I have with S7 (and the later seasons in general), and they're somewhat inter-related. The complete lack of honoring the show's history When TV shows enter their final seasons, I am always hoping to see most of the former regulars again, however briefly. I understand that it's difficult with a show like MP, which had so many former regulars, many of whom would have not been willing or able to return. During those 7 in-between episodes, they seemed to be teasing Alison's return. I was expecting her back for Billy's exit and for them to get their happy ending, but no such luck. Next, they were teasing Matt's return, only to kill him off offscreen. WTF? Was that really necessary? The Fielding family had already lost Matt Sr. and Matt's never-before-mentioned brother Tom in a few years' time. What made the whole thing worse is that he was only killed off to jump-start the eventual Amanda/Eve storyline (which I actually liked) with that stupid diary. I do not remember Matt and Amanda being friendly, let alone in a place where she would reveal her deepest darkest secret to him. They even brought back Claudette Nevins to have her interact with Amanda, but I would have preferred to have Michael or Jane, who actually knew Matt, interact with her. Speaking of Jane, I was happy to see ONE former regular return at least. I HATED that she seemed to have completely forgotten about every rotten thing Michael had ever done to her, and fell blindly in love with him all over again. Some people earlier in this thread called her "stronger" upon her return, but I didn't feel like that at all. The thing that bugged me most of all is that a major thing happened in her life since we had last seen her (her sister died), but she did not mention Sydney even ONCE. All the while, Michael mentioned her at least twice while listing all his ex-wives for comic relief. Although I love that the show has always managed to bring back the parental characters, I can't believe George and Katherine Andrews actually showed up for Jane's ridiculous second wedding to Michael, after everything Michael had done to both of their daughters. I'm also surprised to see the pairing of Jane and Kyle get a lot of love in this thread. Although it made sense on paper (Kyle needed someone a little less used to the high life than Amanda, Jane needed a good guy for once), they went from a small flirtation while he was married to Amanda to wanting to spend the rest of their lives togehter in 0.2 seconds. I also felt that they had no chemistry together. About ten episodes before the ending, Amanda decided she needed to sell the building. There was a great moment where she was sitting on the stairs looking over the pool, and they showed a flashback of when she decided to buy the place. When Kyle joined her, she mentioned some of the crazy things that happened like Kimberly bombing the place and Brooke drowning in the pool. Kyle had an "oh, year" type of reaction, which was kind of ridiculous as he wasn't there for either event, but despite that, I loved both the flashback and the callbacks to previous events. Exactly the type of thing that I expect to see from a show in its final episodes. I was expecting the sale of the building to last much longer, throughout those final 10 episodes. There was a moment when an obvious lackey bought the place, and was talking to someone unseen in a limo (who obviously turned out to be Lexi). How awesome would it have been if they kept the identity of that person a secret throughout those 10 episodes, all the while teasing possible returns of four or five former regulars, making us think they could be the one buying the building? The finale that we ended up with did NOTHING to honor the show's legacy (save from Peter's incredibly cheesy line about naming their children after the apartment's residents). I loved reading some of the endings that were apparently pitched earlier on in this thread. Eve's therapist being revealed to be Kimberly would have been great. The Melrose Place Hell idea seems incredibly over the top, but at least it would have given many shout outs to the show's history. Over-The-Top, Cartoonish Characters I realize Melrose Place was built on camp. But characters like Amanda, Kimberly and Sydney are so amazing, because they walked that fine line perfectly, where it's definitely kind of campy, but can still be taken seriously. I felt like a number of characters, some of whom are praised quite a bit in this thread, were absolutely God-awful in the final two seasons. Completely cartoonish, with no sense of reality. The main offender here is Taylor. I can't believe that nearly everyone is praising her in this thread. I absolutely HATED her, and not in a love-to-hate kind of way. There was absolutely nothing about her that could be taken seriously. Someone earlier in this thread used the words "without going over the top". I'm sorry, but she was so far over the top she couldn't have spotted the top with a magnifying glass. I'm a bit more in the middle when it comes to Lexi in S7. Jamie Luner reveled in that kind of role, but she was so over-sexed. I know this show ran on sex, but some of Lexi's moments are just embarrassing to watch. When she hid into Tony Marlin's car in her underwear and was all like honey this and honey that with EVERY SINGLE LINE given some sort of sexual innuendo, it was honesly just painful to watch IMO. I did like her pairing with Michael in the end. Speaking of Michael, I was never a fan of him, but in the first four seasons he was the kind of character that you do kind of love-to-hate. I'm not sure when it happened exactly, but he became a complete cartoon character towards the end. His final scene with that playboy model was ridiculous. Since she was mentioned in this thread recently, I need to give a shout-out to Alexandra Paul's Terry O'Brien. What a completely ridiculous character. I like the reveal that Ryan had a daughter, and Terry seemed like an interesting foe, keeping Ryan from his child. But then she fell for him and was not at all subtle about it. I don't understand how she could kidnap Sarah, get in a car crash, and they were all a happy family after. WTF? She tried to KIDNAP Ryan's daughter. They should have all hated her and banned her out of their lives. Character Transplantations Another thing was characters having complete transplantations overnight. Lexi would be one of the main offenders here. I remember liking her (and her and Peter) in S6, but in early S7 I figured I just hadn't been paying attention during the previous season or something. As I said above, the transplantation did sort of suit Jamie Luner, but I'm still a bit torn about it. I also never bought her as running an ad agency. I can't remember, but I don't think Sterling-Conway was even an ad agency when her father ran it. It was clearly done to pit her against Amanda, but at least at D&D and AWA, we always saw and heard about campaigns, clients and meetings. I don't think Lexi would have been capable of running much more than maybe a prositute ring. Eve is another character that did a total 180, although I feel like it's a bit more motivated through some of the subtext. A lot of people are referring to her as "crazy Eve", but mind the fact that she only went crazy in the last two episodes. I do think there were some hints early on, when her relationship with Peter started, by the way she pretty much attacked him and moved WAY too fast. And I kind of like Eve's craziness in the final episodes. There was definitely a hint of Kimberly there, albeit a very watered down version. What I didn't buy is that within ONE episode, she went from being lovey-dovey with Peter, to trying to hold on to him as he was breaking things off, to wanting to kill him. To be fair, this is an issue that the show, in a lesser version, has had for a long time. Especially when it comes to the characters' careers. I think the show suffered from trying to bring all of the characters into the same 2-3 places of employment. S1 Billy dreamed of becoming a writer. He had a job at a magazine during S2, until he was brought on to D&D as a copy writer. Somehow, he became Amanda's right hand man, doing much more than copy writing. Up until his exit in S6/7, I was hoping for him to leave advertising and go back into writing. Samantha, Jane and Megan's stints at AWA didn't make much sense to me either. In one of the final episodes (even titled Floral Knowledge), Jane is suddenly working in a floral shop. Whatever happened to her career as a fashion designer? I absolutely loved Matt working at the shelter in S1. Then, after he was fired, he started some type of administrative work at Wilshire, only to later reveal that he had actually wanted to become a doctor all along? Don't even get me started on Alison being content working at Shooters. What I Liked For the record, there was plenty I did like in 7. I loved both the Kyle/Amanda and Peter/Amanda pairings, but I am happy that the latter ended up together. The integration of the former's marriage was well done IMO. I really liked the Amanda/Eve story, and I was warming quite a bit to the Peter/Eve pairing (much like Peter/Lexi in S6, just when I started really liking them, they split up the couple and gave the woman a personality transplant). Apparently unlike many people in this thread, I loved Ryan/Megan. The show needed some "normal" characters to keep things grounded, and I really felt this couple. I also really liked the reveal about Ryan's daughter. I'm glad Jane returned, although she could have been used better. Anyway, sorry for a long post, I will go over my thoughts on the earlier seasons soon. I'm thinking of going regular-by-regular.
  21. I have an episode synopsis for that day by CBS itself (was on their website, retrieved through the internet archive), so that pre-emption did not apply to ATWT. Still, thanks for letting me know!
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