Soaplovers

Out of the short-lived 80s primetime soaps I've seen.. I actually think Paper Dolls had a lot of potential with an appealing anti-heroine lead Morgan Fairchild.  Had the show just focused on the modeling agency, models, and the models parents.. it would have done much better.

Berrenger's had a bad timeslot, and too many characters.  I believe this was a Lynn Latham written show?

Bare Essence, I wish I could see because I loved the mini series... but it sounds like it isn't just set in NYC.. but also in Europe.  It sounds like the tv show didn't focus on the parts that made the mini series so good.

I think they could have made Sable and Frankie former step sisters, and it would have been more believable.  

From watching season 2, it seemed like the show was finding its way.  Sable was being written as more sympathic, while I liked that the show kind of found its Claudia in Adrienne. 

I do wonder how Fallon's experience with the UFO would have been resolved in season 3.  My guess would have been more conflict between Jeff/Fallon with him assuming it was due to her past issues with the tumor... with Miles stepping in to comfort Fallon.

I always thought Donna going back to David made her look dumb.

I remember season 1 was all social issues of the week.  However, I loved the slumber party episode.  Good character developing..and accidental foreshadowing of Kelly/Brenda/Dylan

I think Marcia Cross was too tied to the Pierce Lawton story.  Was her character gone before Marcus took over?

I don't even recall if much info was divulged about her character or not. She would have been a better option for the stories given to Kate's roommate Vanessa..imho

20 minutes ago, FrenchBug82 said:

I personally don't agree that the waitress subplot was a Val restoration. It was movie-of-the-week weak.
Now her taking on the Greg book and not taking any of the doubts from Gary and the Mckenzies; THAT was old Val.

What I mean by Val restoration was that after the crappy stories provided to her in season 11 and 12, the waitress subplot was the first step in restoring her character.

Like @Khansaid.. it was a happy accident that Romano and co had no idea about Val's previous history and they actually ended up writing her in character.  Thus, when Ann Marcus took over in the final stretch of season 13, Val was ready to take on a new direction story wise and didn't need to be repaired.

22 minutes ago, Khan said:

If anything, I think S13 showrunner John Romano and his team made things worse - first, by having Claudia attempt suicide (and having Karen practically beg Kate (and the audience) to forgive her mother) either out of guilt over how Steve Brewer's death had come between her and Kate, or as a means of manipulating herself back into her daughter's life; then, by having that skeezeball, Alex Barth, blackmail her and subject her to almost round-the-clock psychological torture over the circumstances surrounding Ruth Galveston's death. 

It's one thing for karma to reward Claudia handsomely for being responsible, however indirectly, for the deaths of her mother and illegitimate son, but it seems as if Romano & Co. were so intent on punishing her that they made her an even bigger victim than "poor Val"!

Ann Marcus salvaged Claudia somewhat in S14, exposing the secret that Alex held over her head, getting her back in the thick of things with Greg and Paige at the Sumner Group, and putting her in a triangle with Anne and Nick.  However, I think the leftover stench from her actions in S's 12 and 13 made it difficult, if not impossible, for Claudia ever to be viewed again as a viable character.  If CBS and Filerman/Jacobs/Lorimar had miraculously agreed to a S15 for KL, then Claudia (and probably Anne) would have needed to be written out.

Ironically John Romano and company were able to restore Val.  While her teaching Lynette, the waitress, how to read was that early 90s preachy element.. it was in character for Val to take wayward woman under her wing (Annie, Olivia, Abby.. at first).  Plus, she and Gary were fighting about the Tidal Wave project with him mortaging the ranch while she was being the cautious voice of reason.  And she also kind of took Kate under her wing... providing her with a maternal figure that she was lacking from Claudia.

I think Ann Marcus' coming back in those final episodes of season 13 kind of reset Claudia's story with Alex starting to date Claudia's daughter Kate... and she/Alex were kind of blackmailing one another.  And I liked the Anne/Claudia/Greg/Nick story from season 14 as well.

However, I think the taint of Claudia's season 12 and early season 13 stories made her a poor Abby replacement.  Abby wanted money/power.. but she did love her children... which we couldn't say the same about Claudia.

Do you guys think the writers of season 13 and 14 were able to salvage Claudia?  

3 hours ago, Khan said:

Well, if you think about it, Abby's arc had reached its' natural conclusion.  She started out as a recently divorced woman, willing to do just about anything to improve her lot in life and those of her children as well; and by hook or crook, she achieved it.

As it was, Abby was beginning to repeat herself.  If she had stayed, one of two things would have happened: either she lost it all and had to start all over again, or she would have had to outdo herself with even more outrageous stunts to remain on top.  The former option sounds intriguing, but with the latter, you run the risk of turning Abby into the kind of one-note villain that hampered the other nighttime soaps -- and part of Abby's appeal, after all, was that she wasn't one-note.

Thinking about it, Lotus Point was Abby's baby in season 5.  She was going to build a huge complex without telling Gary, plus not tell Karen she inherited half the property when Sid died.

At the start of season 6, Gary took over how it would run and included Karen.  Hence the parks,.cabin, etc.

So I could see Abby waiting for an opportunity to take back what was hers..hence the Murkame scam.  And when she knew she would get caught, she donated it as a preserve to cover her tracks.

I understand the motivation for her cutting Gary and Karen out of it..but the execution risked putting Abby into one note villain territory.

For all we know, Claudia showed what probably would have happened had Donna Mills not left when she did.

2 hours ago, Khan said:

As much as I hate to admit it - because, Lord knows, if she'd been cast, she would've been a nightmare to work with - I would have cast Cybill Shepherd.

Cybill would have been good.

Problem was that CBS skewed older, and they would have gone for this had it been at 9 PM instead of 8 PM...plus had a better mix of older and younger characters.

The Linda/Allen/Nikki story was actually the strongest story and most realistic.  Older man/younger woman, loveless marriage between older man/older woman, etc.

I think the Stephanie/Mark characters were the problem.

I also think Gerald Mcraney was a good hire..and he and Lauren Hutton had a good rapport.

The start of the end of KL.

Laura kept Abby in check, Abby kept Karen in check, while neither Laura nor Abby enabled Val like Karen did.

This final scene clearly showed Abby would always come out on top.  She wasn't OTT like Alexis nor Angela nor had a one track mind like JR.

She was someone you might run into in your day to day life.  And she was one that schemed and worked her way to the top coming from a working class family.

I actually thought tying Storm into the story was smart because of his unresolved issues with his father.  And he and Margo had a good rapport.

I'm wondering if the actor playing Storm opted to leave hence why he was quickly removed from the story and we ended up with Mick coming onto the scene.

10 minutes ago, Faulkner said:

I saw that too. Not sure I buy it. 

I think all the shows should do test filming to see if there is chemistry, etc. 

So has anyone heard the rumor about NY doing a test filming later this year..like they tried with Dallas?

Rumor is Sonja is out because she lives in Florida now, Leah isn't included, and Eboni quit.  So it'll be centered around Luann and Ramona..and will have friends of theirs join.  And the producers only want Bethenny back..but she costs too much.

Not sure if this is true, or just an idea.  I think OC should have done test filming for season 16..imho

Only positives of that character was him in a speedo...and Lucy getting drunk and telling him off.

1 hour ago, Khan said:

In retrospect...

1. The end of Jill should have been the moment when Gary and Val finally reconciled.  Ben was gone.  Abby had moved on.  Jill had died, failing in her mission to make Gary and Val's lives hell forever.  It all should have ended with Gary and Val retying the knot (no pun intended); and if it meant the two had to move out of Knots Landing and seek their "happily ever after" in parts elsewhere?  Well, as much as I would have hated to see Ted Shackelford and Joan Van Ark leave the show, it also would've been for the best.  Because, what did we get instead?  Danny Waleska, and Val's ridiculous "brain virus": two stories that only served to make Val, in particular, look like a bigger sap than ever.

2. I don't know what the show gained by resurrecting Val in the series' finale.  David Jacobs and Ann Marcus might have agreed with Karen that Gary and Val were a forever kind of couple, but Karen also believed that Diana was a pretty, pretty princess, who was seduced by that awful Chip Roberts, because she was so young and so innocent and didn't know any better.  And Gary and Kate's relationship might have been rushed, but at least it didn't feel like a regression for Gary the way Val's return and their quick reunion did (again, in retrospect).  If KL had wanted to acknowledge Gary and Val's history in some way at the end, they could have had Val appear to Gary in spirit form instead and urge him to propose to Kate.

1. I do agree that Jill's demise should have started the slow process of reuniting Gary and Val.  I never thought Gary ever earned Val at all.  He was into rescuing her, but he didn't value her.

2. The one or two positive things of the bad 1st half of season 13 were Gary and Val fighting over him mortgaging the ranch for the Tidal Waves project..since it was in character and showed that the issues that caused their break up in season 3/4 were still apparent (he was a risk taker, she was too cautious).

Also, Val and Kate started becoming close at the start of season 13...so it made sense once Val passed away that Gary would turn to Kate.  And Val's speech about Kate being the one she would want Gary to move on with..could have worked in a dream sequence between Gary and Val.

At my job, we had an in person fiscal year kick off earlier this month.  Masks weren't required, but we had to provide proof of a negative Covid test before being allowed to attend.   I think it's a perfect compromise that if everyone entering is negative then masks shouldn't be mandated.

And we're entering year 3 of the pandemic, which should be the final stretch of it.. if we compare it to the 1918 Flu Pandemic.. which took 3 years before it became endemic (sp?).  

And when Covid started circulating back in early 2020, experts had predicted the majority of the world would get exposed to it before it settled into Endemic status.. but that masks, capacity limits, and lockdowns (which should have been short-term) would give health places time to prepare, scientists time to determine what causes transmission of Covid, and for places to get themselves ready once things opened back up (i.e. safety precautions, etc).

24 minutes ago, Franko said:

I can't speak for Vee, but I accept the apology.

Back to OLTL, I had the craziest idea: suppose the show had kept Blair Asian and had Kassie DePaiva play (a significantly embittered) Mari-Lyn Dennison?

I could see Kassie playing Mari Lynn..only because she played Chelsea on GL who was kind of like Mari Lynn with an edge.

I do remember Cassie's 1st year played by LB.  She was all over the map with viewers liking the actress..but wishing the writing was better.  And I do agree Cassie and Andrew didn't seem planned.  They were written as friends with her advising him on his unrequited love for Megan while he was advising on her situation with Bo.  And viewers wanted them paired because they were likable together.

And I do remember in 1995/6 where Cassie had expressed being restless and wanting to go back to work as a reporter.  She and Kevin had good banter as they were in competition for a story..and they ended up having an affair.

I think the Andrew/Cassie divorce story got short changed..probably due to regime changes..since I recall Tea/Andrew were tested..and she and Cassie didn't like one another.

And then JFP hired her friends..and instead of being objective and seeing that Tim Gibbs was the problem...she fired LB right when she was on maternity leave. (reminds me of when David Tom got fired as Billy because he didn't spark with Amelia on Y & R..when she was the problem).

I did like that Cassie did become well and lived her best life outside Llanview...best medicine for mental health is living away from dysfunctional family members.

My parents were in their 20s when the show debuted and it ended right as they hit 40...and they watched it in Sundays.  So it wasn't just 50+

At first the Susan Piper story had promise.. with her mixing it up with Mike, Tony, Annabelle, Hilary, Reva, etc at first... but it went over the top.

I think Lisa's antics will ensure SLC is good to go once Jen Shah is found guilty 

I always assumed Long kept the door open for Alan to return..and maybe she was setting it up with the Mike/Lillian/Alexandra triangle...with Alexandra/Mike becoming engaged which motivates Alan to come back to settle scores he had with both..and he could have still utilized India for help.

I think it should have been a Hulu, or a Netflix series.  Primetime soaps would have a long life if all 10 to 13 episodes are dropped at once.

5 hours ago, Cat said:

RHONJ preview: Dolores and Jackie in each other's faces. Marge's mini-me assistant gets a reaction shot.

 

About time Delores pulled her weight.  Jackie, Jennifer, and Teresa's shoulders are hurting from keeping the show afloat.

Dallas

Sue Ellen's alcoholism was the only social issue that was told in real time for several seasons.

It was a shame Pam's problems with having a child never got more development...but it was a story thread that wasn't tied up neatly.

And it was a shame that Donna and Ray's adoption story was during the dream season.

I can't think of any other social issues.

45 minutes ago, Khan said:

True.  Of course, Julie Harris was ALSO a respected stage actor, but she never won for her work on KNOTS LANDING.

No, they weren't.

Joan Collins got an emmy nod for Dynasty..so it wasn't impossible.

Does anyone wonder how Jean Stapleton would have done if she had accepted the role?