Soaplovers

From watching episodes from when Patty was on, Mary had to keep Carl from butting into Patty's life while Carl had to keep Mary from butting into Paul's life.  I think the fact that Todd was in the priest hood made him the favored one

7 minutes ago, BetterForgotten said:

Janet, for years, mistakenly thought people loved what she called her “baby-making songs” when that was not the type of music that drew people to her in the first place. It was cute with ‘Anytime, Anyplace’ but there can only be so many songs singing about your p.ussy on various albums…

Janet also went on a mini apology tour after the Super Bowl incident, which I think only ended up hurting her even more in the long-run. It purposely gave everyone else ownership of her personal narrative. When Madonna had her Sex book backlash, and even as she moved on from it, the one thing she refused to do was apologize for it (which she directly references on ‘Human Nature’). People who “published” her for it had to deal with it and couldn’t really use it against her as she wasn’t going to say “sorry” for it.

I forgot she apologized.  Janet shouldn't have because she was not at fault and did nothing wrong.  She should have just kept it moving like Madonna did.

She got bad advice from her team.

Just now, Khan said:

Exactly.  But there was also a racial component that I, for one, found hard to ignore.  Janet was vilified, because, "how DARE a BLACK woman show her nipple on live TV like that!?".  If that had happened to Madonna, white, conservative America would have just laughed and shrugged and said, "Well, that's our Madge!".

I will agree that Janet got punished worse than Madge did.

Madonna did suffer a lot of damage after doing Erotica/Sex/Body of Evidence... and she had to do a major 180 and came out with 'Bedtime Stories' plus a ballad called 'I'll Remember'.  Madonna had to drastically back off the sexual exploits in order to save her career.

I don't recall, but did Janet Jackson try to do that after the whole Superbowl scandal?

I think part of Janet's problem was that she was always viewed as the kid sister singing and she also had a weight problem in her teens as well.

If you look at her music videos from the Control and Rhythm Nation era(for the most part), she was always in blazers, in black, and usually was covered up from the neck down.  Once she did the 'Love will never do without you' video where she was dressed in a more revealing way (for her.. that is).  I think she decided to embrace the sexual side that she had kept repressed because she still saw herself as being overweight.

Janet in 1993 was a very sensual album that was romantic, tough, and sensual.   Velvet Rope saw her dipping more into the sexual side of things, but she still wrote a mean hook.

I think she's been treading ground in her music for years focusing more on the beats instead of what made her so popular in the 80s/early 90s.. which were strong hooks, great beats, great lyrics, and a diverse musical soundscape.

She listed to men by embracing her sexuality, yet was also punished when those same people thought she went too far (even though Justin T wasn't held under the fire when he was the one that caused the wardrobe malfunction).

8 hours ago, te. said:

I think the new incarnation of Fantasy Island is going in that direction - they still have guest stars each episode, but also clearly continuing plots with the staff. Of course, a lot of those are mythology based since it's more of a fantasy (duh) show, but that's what I'd do with a Hotel reboot. Keep the guest stars, but amp up the soapiness of the continuing plots with the staff.

 

It's also interesting that the Hotel idea was the first floated spin-off idea for Dynasty - Fallon would further expand her hotel business and move out of town (with Jeff I assume). Of course, PSM left and the idea was nixed until The Colby's came around. I believe the Shapiros even sued Spelling for "stealing" the idea (I believe they settled).

I would have started the Hotel show as a 'love boat' type show at first with the guests coming as a placeholder until we got to know the main cast.. then moved more toward a soap where the staff/owners became the focus with the guests becoming more of a background element.

@KhanRegarding Second Chances, CBS had debated rebuilding all the sets.. but because Connie Selleca and Megan Follows (2 of the 3 leads) were both pregnant, they knew by the time all the sets were rebuilt, they couldn't resume production so they canceled it.  And the sad thing was that ratings were slowly starting to increase and the show was becoming cohesive and enjoyable when this happened.

               I think that was partly why it was rebooted as Hotel Malibu with the focus being on Jennifer Lopez's character and her father because the other 2 leads weren't available and perhaps CBS had given the show runners a guaranteed full season order.  Just a theory.

Bellamy Young as the Alexis Colby of the 2020s.....I'm in

I wonder if perhaps Hotel should have have been more a soap than a 'love boat' type of show.

Business intrigue, hook ups, and romance all amongst the employees.

Connie Selleca was popular in the 80s from this show.  I know she did a primetime soap in the 90s called Second Chances that was canceled due to the earth quake destroying all the sets.  In fact, Michelle Phillip's played the woman sleeping with Connie Selleca's characters husband on the show.

The miniseries ended with Tyger making up with her mom, getting her ideas accepted and ending up with her love interest.

So in the series, you needed to shake her world in order to see her struggle...hence the death of her new husband.

From what I recall, Muffin had a bigger part in the series than she did in the mini series...while I'm not sure if the character played by Donna Mills had as big of role in the series 

Wouldn't it have been in character for Victor to respect a woman that was self-made, that worked her way into success at any means possible?  I do think deep down, he did respect Jill.. and there were times they would hold their own with one another.

There were some episodes in late 1984/early 1985 where Nikki had tried to get into modeling.. with Victor dismissing her aspirations and eyeing Jack with distrust.  It's a shame she didn't ever work at Jabot scouting out models for campaigns, etc.. since she had expressed those aspirations going back to her marriage to Greg.

Ashley was an interesting case for Victor.. he respected her business sense/intelligence.. yet presented that emotional fragility that made him want to care for her.  This was in play anytime Eileen played Ashley.. and wasn't as much when Brenda/Shari played Ashley (though the reason Brenda's Ashley and Victor married was due to rebound and mutual/respect/love).

How did Victor view Cassandra and Leanna?  He always seemed amused by Leanna.. and he wasn't happy when he found out she wrote the tell all book about him.. and she acted as a thorn on/off through the early 2000s in spurts.

1 minute ago, Khan said:

It certainly would've been more fun than watching Patty Jane Williams wreak havoc on Genoa City again and again and again (...and again).

Having Pattyy come back was wise...but how they bought her back was all wrong 

1 hour ago, asafi said:

Whatever happened to Lisa? she locked brad in a cage for months and just escaped never to be seen again? 

She escaped and was never mentioned again.

I'd heard back when Sally Sussman was up for the head writing job in 2005 that her outlines mentioned bringing Lisa back to finish that thread and explore how he had decided on her family.  But I guess Latham's reliquary pitch won out 

Alexia can be the alpha because she has different sides she's showing.  She loves her kids (enabling though), has a good banter with Todd, good friend vibes with Marysol, and can be dramatic with women she doesn't like.  She's well rounded.

Marysol came across thirsty, as does Adriana.  Had this been on Bravo..those 2 would have had Mojitos..but Peacock has different criteria it appears.

Marysol should just remain a friend.

I remember when Jin Min came on during the Latham era..and he/Ashley had chemistry..yet she was written off because Latham had no idea what to do with Ashley.

I remember thinking 'um, she and Jin Min could hook up,'.  I could have seen an Ashley/Jin Min/Jill triangle...with lots of hostile history already in place between Jill and Ashley.

When watching episodes in 1987 and 1988, while Steven and Ashley lacked passion...he held his own and they had an interesting back and forth...and that union did introduce us to Leanna Love..who I wish would pay a visit again.

On 1/20/2022 at 10:08 AM, Soapsuds said:

So who is the director that was difficult to work for? Margaret called him sh!t and so did Liz Hubbard. It had to be a director that was there in 1983/1984. Didn't Lucinda first appear in 1984?

The director also made fun of Margaret during one of her scenes.

Quite frankly maybe the director wasn't in the wrong.  I don't know much about Ms. Colin...but Liz Hubbard seems difficult and temperamental so maybe neither of them liked this director because they were put in their place.

And also Eileen did struggle to play Ashley when she came back in 1999.  She was stuck in a story and coupling that had started when Shari was still playing Ashley (marriage to Cole, and another step brother with a stolen painting).  She and J Eddie Peck had no chemistry..and she was still shaking off the Kristen Dimera character.

By the time, Eileen has settled back into playing Ashley...the writing declined for the character.

And I think Bell had written the Ashley and Victor marriage as a closure of sorts.  She and Victor were free to be together..and both realized their time had passed...plus when he admitted he still loved Nikki...Ashley knew history would keep repeating and divorced him.  

I think part of the reason Ashley has struggled to work is partly due to Eileen Davidson.

Not a slam at all, but she's such a strong actress that most of her attempted pairings from 1982 to 1985 didn't work because she over powered them.  Only actor strong enough to act opposite her was Eric Braeden.

Sadly the only way to make that work was to diminish her character.  I will say I did like her marriage to Dr Steve..it wasn't passionate..but the two had a good rapport.

Now when Brenda Epperson took over,she made Ashley into more of a heroine.  And she had great chemistry with Don Diamont.  If Bill Bell was a plot driven writer, he would have gone full blown ahead with a Traci/Ashley/Brad triangle in 1990..but he knew it was in character for Ashley to step aside if Traci expressed interest in Brad again.

And I will say Ashley 1st marriage to Victor was interesting..and oddly she was written as being strong minded and not letting Victor push her around.  And she filed for divorce in 1992 when he expressed feelings for Nikki again. 

Sadly, the Blade story could have worked had a different actor played Blade.  Mari Jo vs Ashley was fun.

And Shari's Ashley...well...she was too harsh.  She didn't have the sarcasm of the other actresses..and was angry all the time.

Miami:

Alexia enables her son Peter while Marysol enables Alexia.

Adriana needs to go away

Nicole talking about mean girls and queen bees then saying 'that isn't what groups are like'...and I'm like 'are you new here '?

SFT did a successful modernization in the 70s by becoming more balanced with a mix of veterans and younger characters.  It even hit the top 4 in the mid 70s with a mini revival in the late 70s.

For some reason, GL seemed to have more energy in the 70s than ATWT, even if the sets and lighting weren't Y & R quality.

Edge's darker lighting worked for the crime and mystery vibe...it's 40s vibe worked.

RHOC

Noella is too thristy... she needs to let others take a drink of the spotlight

RHOSLC

Never do a reality show if you're like Trump and tweet without thinking

Love of Life was an odd bird..at first the modernization seemed to boost ratings for a bit in the mid 70s...but a time slot change and constant writer changes doomed it.

7 minutes ago, Dion said:

Cricket was trying to set them up and I think they went on a few dates but Nina's head was almost immediately turned by Ryan; John Silva briefly entertained the notion of fighting for her but in the end gave up and that was that.

John asked Nina out shortly after the Kimball ordeal..but she felt like she wasn't good enough to be with him.

How she met Ryan was partly due to Cricket.  She and Nina were having a girls night out at Gina's..and she trying to get Nina to open up. She saw Ryan sitting at the bar and convinced Nina to approach him.

Nina and Ryan talked then hooked up.  He had been at Gina's due to a fight with Vicki and having a drink at the bar.

I recall when both Vicki and Nina sat his college graduation and bonded over their 'men' lol

I remember one day Estelle was popped up as an employee at the ranch and my mom was like 'where the hell is Miguel '.  And then a throwaway scene mentioned he was gone and that all he got was a clock.  

When the secondary characters left, it left a void in Y & R

I think season 1 spent time getting to know the characters and setting up the plotlines that start to kick into high gear as season 1 ends.

If B & B debuted in 2022 instead of 1987, Brooke and Ridge would have met in the first few episodes instead of in episode 60.  Margo would have revealed her true feelings against Kristen, and Thorne would have started scheming to get Caroline by week 2....and Beth/Eric would have started their emotional affair with Stephanie figuring out who Beth was right away instead of becoming friendly with Beth weeks before she knew who she was.

the pace needs to slow down.

I don't care about any of the characters because we haven't had time to know them yet.

Iris was written as the villain during Rachel/Carl's courtship..yet she was the only one with logic.