Soaplovers

1 hour ago, Broderick said:

During Lee Sheldon's reign, there were a pair of (dull) sisters, both of whom were evidently named "Elizabeth Correll".  One of the girls went by "Beth Correll" and the other by "Liz Correll". 

My mother called them "Big Sis Lizbeth" and "Lil Sis Lizbeth".  My mother was a huge fan of Agatha Christie (and Henry Slesar).  She was 100% convinced there was gonna be a gigantic bloodbath that wiped BOTH Elizabeth Corrells off the face of the earth.  She thought the clue to their demise would be found in the old Mother Goose Rhyme: 

"Elizabeth, Elspeth, Betsy, and Bess; They all went together to seek a bird's nest.  They found a bird's nest with five eggs in; they all took one, which left four in."  

I was like, "Momma, there ain't gonna be a bloodbath.  This writer doesn't have enough sense to come up with something like that.  He was simply brain-dead when he named both of these sisters Elizabeth.  There's no mystery; you're just witnessing an inept writer at work."  

But whenever Beth & Liz would appear on the screen, Mama would start singing, "Elizabeth, Elspeth, Betsy and Bess; they all went together to seek a bird's nest."  

lol. 

He did come up with the Wonderland theme in the final episode so I'm wondering if there was a bigger plan for Beth/Liz having the same name, but the show was canceled before they really delved fully into their backstory.

I think Sheldon had a decent start with Isis.. and the 6 week haunted mansion story had a payoff (Sky and Raven getting their money back)... but December 1983 till July 1984 seemed to be a lot of scenes with little plot or movement.

I think once the show came back from the 2 week break, it started to kind of resemble Edge with the Logan Swift murder case and resolution, plus the Liz Corral story that led to the return of Laurie Karr.   

However, I think the biggest issue was focusing the show around couples that weren't in the detective/police/attorney/reporter fields.  Sky/Raven lasted too long and probably should have been written out by 1982 or 1983... while Jody/Preacher also were over-rated.

YT just started on season 4 of B & B... and Beth's reaction to Brooke being with Eric is a realistic one.  Telling her that she's doing transference, and that perhaps she needed to go to a therapist to straighten her mind up.

And she had the final word with Stephanie in one of the episodes.

I always thought it was interesting that Ginger instinctively knew to have Kenny give the baby to Karen at the end of The Aftermath.

Kenny hesitated but Ginger insisted and had a look that showed she knew that holding the baby would be the ticket to getting Karen to let out her pent up emotions.  Those little moments are what made KL so rich in those early seasons...and it gave Ginger a moment that showed she was smarter than people gave her credit for.

Always a shame the writers never drew on her Gingers backstory.

My theory on why the show made Dawn the one with AIDS was to show public that it could happen to anyone.  Not just a drug dealer, or other characters that the audience would have deemed as expecting to see have it.

Still..it would have had more impact if it was a main character viewers knew (i.e. Robin on GH in the 90s).

15 minutes ago, Franko said:

 

Erica's fame is a funny thing to measure. She spent years ascending in the modeling world, but didn't succeed at establishing herself in show business. For a few years, she succeeded as a magazine publisher, then definitely succeeded as an entreprenur. Along the way, her husbands increased in prominence. Also, of course, she's got her fame as a talk show hostess (Was The Cutting Edge strictly local? Could it be seen nationally, or at least in NYC?) and retroactive icon of her heyday. Did I miss anything?

I can't quite compare Erica to one person, although I suppose Janice Dickinson would be the closest analogue in terms of modeling (I'm open to better suggestions). And Tina Brown for the Tempo years. Enchantment was likely following the lead of Elizabeth Taylor, Cher and Joan Collins' perfumes, but I personally think of it more along the lines of Jessica Alba and the Honest Company (a surprise and highly lucrative second act). The retroactive icon of her heyday ... I guess Erica's like every woman who's survived to give commentary for a pop culture documentary.

Also, now that I'm writing this, I think there was a big missed opportunity not having Erica hook up with a rock star (he doesn't have to be British, but it wouldn't have hurt) during her modeling years.

Actually Erica is kind of like Estee Lauder.  She, like Erica, grew up in working class while dreaming of being an actress, famous and being around wealthy men.

She ended up co founding her own cosmetics company with the help of a wealthy husband.

6 minutes ago, Soapsuds said:

Alan had the WTF did I get myself in with this interview.

Karma...now he knows how some viewers feel about him..and I imagine some of the panelists as well lol

Season 3 of KL always interested me because they had continuing threads arcs (Karen dealing with widowhood post Sid, Abby/Gary/Val, Richard/Laura's marriage issues with Scooter in the background, while Kenny/Ginger dealing with a newborn plus her wanting to break into singing)...while there were interesting standalone episodes (3 sisters was interesting..but I feel it should have been episode 9 instead of episode 10 because how Abby was acting in 3 sisters toward Val would have led to her first subtle move to get Gary in the Rose and Briar episode.

@DRW50I liked the Ginger being stalked episode and revealing her backstory about her abortion..plus her tense relationship with her mom.  I wish the writers could have used that history in season 3 when she became a mom instead of the music aspect.  Also, I wish Val could have been mixed on Ginger having the abortion given her own backstory.  Would she have sympathized with Ginger, been a bit resentful that she willingly opted to not have a child, etc.

Also, I co sign on liking Val's relationships with Abby and Laura better. 

Seeing lots of Val/Abby friendship scenes in season 2 and 1st half of season 3 really made the affair between Gary/Abby more impactful.  Also, Abby was the one to tell Val her babies were alive, and had told Gary that he had to be honest with Val that they weren't married anymore when Val had her mental block.  She didn't coddle Val.

Laura also didn't coddle Val...in fact, she was the one to tell Gary not to lead Val on...hence why Gary married Abby...to show Val that their marriage was over 

Where is everyone watching this?  Private message me?

33 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

Did this show ever write Stephanie and Sally as having loving relationships with men who genuinely had eyes for only them? Even for awhile?
 

Even as a child, something about B&B struck me as being “off” in the way certain characters were written. Looking at these episodes now, it’s obvious that there was a certain narrative being written about “women of a certain age”, that was not written for Eric or Bill Spencer.

Only one I could think of was Taylor's dad Jack.   The show did have a triangle between all three for awhile in 1992 to 1994... but other then that, no.

On 5/17/2022 at 4:37 PM, Taoboi said:

Shady Phae Phae???

 

OC

 

Well...I guess it's in the air then...

 

 

 

 

 

 

She's an alcoholic so he clammed up.  Not surprising

RHOA:

Drew... sweet Drew... never go up against Sheree.  She's more lethal than Nene is, and keeps her cool better as well.  And Sheree was dragging Drew on Twitter as well.

Drew truly is the Teddi of RHOA

I see guys in speedos all the time...and if you can pull it off..brava.

YR

Another set I liked was Nina's 1st apartment on YR after she became a widow.  It had an interesting staircase and I recall it being pink?

I also liked Danny and Christine's apartment when it had an elevator as the door.

Lastly, my mom when she was alive liked the Williams living room especially when Mary would lean against the fireplace mantle and sigh with worry.

AW:

I liked Tops

She probably was killed off because Bradley Bell didn't understand subtext...which the actress infused into Aly.

16 hours ago, ironlion said:

Liam/Hope/Steffy B&B: the show has excessively pulled the couples apart and put them back together too many times for the audience (or at least myself) to care. The endless back and forth needs to stop. Moreover, Liam isn't in any way commanding as leading man to have two major female leads fight over him for a decade. 

 

Dallas, JR: could it be said that JR ate the show? I will say that I definitely Felt episodes were stronger when Bobby and Pam were the leads and JR was there a moral foil in the early years. I haven't seen much past Season 9 but apparently (correct me if I'm wrong) Hagman got producing credits, JR became more of the star, but he was also weaker as a charachter as he began to get beaten. 

When Pam left...it threw off the balance because deep down..the show was JR vs Pam.  It was never the main focus but was an undercurrent throughout the early to mid years.  Between 1987 and 1991, there wasn't that undercurrent despite the show trying to position Sue Ellen in that role in her final season.

Also, Erica was a lead...but one of many leads on the show.  Most of her interactions with cast members made sense for the most part.

3 hours ago, pdm1974 said:

For me, it's OLTL and the Billy Douglas/homophobia takes over Llanview story in the summer of 1992. It was so well-plotted out with a distinct arc for all the characters. Marty told the citizens of Llanview that Andrew was sexually involved with Billy (a nod to the movie "The Children's Hour") when he was just providing counsel to Billy who was struggling with revealing his sexuality. Andrew turned down Marty's advances and her revenge against him kickstarted a HUGE umbrella story where homophobia touched almost every character's life on the show. It's particularly amazing when you think this story was done 30 years ago, and I'm still surprised ABC approved it. The scenes where Billy comes out to everyone in Llanview while the AIDS memorial quilt comes to town were so moving. Since I was coming out at the same time, the story really impacted me more than any other TV storyline had before or has since.

And one of the fallouts with Marty's role in the Billy story was that when she was gang raped by the frat brothers...her credibility was questioned due to her past history of lying...and it led to a 'wait until dark ' cat and mouse story between Todd and his attorney Nora (who got him off partly due to using Marty's past history against her in the trial).

rhobh:

8 is too many.  Drop Rinna and Dorit.

Loving Murders was well plotted and really delved into some history with Gwyn.

She'd given up a baby for adoption only for him to end up dead, she loves Curtis yet couldn't help him escape his demons, and Trisha/Gwyn had a tense relationship going back to 1984.

So when Trisha 'died' she went into grief refusing to accept it, she also ended up pregnant only to lose the baby...and once she learned Trisha was alive, she had hope only for her to be rejected thus causing her to go over the edge.

The Loving Murders worked because it used backstory and history....but the Nursery rhyme stalker didn't work because it didn't make sense for Holly to do all that.  

19 hours ago, j swift said:

I nominate the Another World's The Murder of Jason Frame.

The late 1980s were filled with murder mysteries in which everyone in town was a suspect, but usually the actual murderer was some backburnered cast member or a bit player introduced just as the mystery begun.  This time the audience saw Felicia Gallant shoot a gun, and then she was seen leaning over the victim, so it would be hard to write her out of that corner.

Coming on the heels of the plot-hole-heavy return of Reginald Love, this was the course correction that Another World needed in order to evolve from repetitive serial killers and a revolving door ingenues with a range of talents from Joanna Going (Lisa) to Kristen Marie (Cheryl).

The smart twist was that the trial brought together most of the major stories of the day.  Cass returned to being a lawyer to defend Felicia, and in order to establish credible doubt he exposed John's PTSD, Sharlene's past as a sex worker, and Vicky's confusion about the paternity of Steven at the trial.  We got the exploration of Felicia Gallant's past.  It also coincided with the return of Anna Stuart as Donna Love, the introduction of Frankie Frame, (and Derek aka the Beast, proving that not everything was great).

Most of all it set the stage for the legendary 25th anniversary of Cory Publishing Party.  Mac was forced to be a hostile witness against Felicia, whom he had heard threaten Jason.  Soon afterward it was exposed that Iris's motive was that Jason knew she was The Chief aka the person trying to takeover Cory!

It was a true umbrella story, the final murderer was not obvious until Cass began to suspect Nicole, and it didn't get boring because it was the center of so many other developments.

Back when 1987 and 1988 were on AW...when Jason first came on, he had scenes with Nicole where he was hinting about knowing her mom and looked at her with interest.  It wasn't sexual/romantic..but it was creepy.  However, with Depriest leaving and the writers strike..that was abandoned.  So when she killed him in 1989, it seemed full circle their interactions.

I'm not sure who plotted it.  It was shortly after Lemay's brief return as head writer so it might have been in his plans.  If so, Swajeski did a good job implementing it.

One thing I liked that Bill Bell did was showcase the difficult relationships Stephanie had with both of her daughters.  The reasons behind the friction were completely different.

Stephanie viewed Kristen as competition since she had a close relationship with Eric...and she viewed Kristen as frigid..complete opposite of Stephanie at that age.  It seemed as if a lot of that was dropped months into the show.  

With Felicia,the reason they had issues was because both were alike.  Both headstrong, rebellious, driven and stubborn.  It was a more typical mother/daughter relationship..imho.

Had Brad Bell been handwriter in those early years..he would have not provided depth to show how the friction differed between the two mother/daughter relationships.

1 hour ago, DramatistDreamer said:

Eric comes off as such a dope. He’s been married like 5 times and comes off looking foolish with each passing marriage. Stephanie must have been in charge of the finances in the early years of FC, otherwise I don’t know how they would have managed to hold onto the business.

I do recall it mentioned that money from her family bankrolled the business.  I always figured she handled the business aspect while Eric handled the creative.

In regards to their kids:

Thorne usually handled the supply chain and orders/logistics..I assume.

Ridge was a designer and had a sexual vibe to his designs that clashed with Eric's more timeless approach.

Felicia was the free spirit, whose designs didn't fit at Forrester's..and her working at Spectra was never developed.  Rebel daughter working for the enemy.

Kristen was a designer, but I often thought she only went into that because of her father..not because she had the talent or passion.  I always thought she would have worked better as a model/spokesperson.

And out of all the Logans, Donna made the most sense being in the fashion world with her modeling, and later getting a taste of the publishing world.  I have a feeling her getting an offer to work at Spencer Publications in early 1991 by Bill (done to stick it to Margo) would have been pursued had the original Donna opted to renew her contract.

I often have thought Heather Tom should have been Donna instead of Katie.  In fact, a lot of Katie's stories in the 2000s/2010s seemed to be more Donna stories (going by the foundation laid out by Bill Bell in the early years)

5 hours ago, Cat said:

Wait.... Gina demoted but not Emily or Dr. Jen?

A returning HW that isn't Tamra? WTF? Just give her an orange already! They keep bending over backwards not to hire Tammy Sue or Vicki. This former cast member better not be Megan, Braunwyn or Kelly Dodd.

ETA: Apparently its Gretchen?! Even more reason to bring Tamra back.

Bravo need to stop teasing the audience with these halfway-house hires, and start giving the show what it needs.

Glad Heather, Shannon and Noella look like they are still around.

(Sorry @Soaplovers I'm not ranting at you, just at the rumors. BTW Gina denied she was being demoted on her social media. Hmmm).

Of course Gina would deny it...she's probably not allowed to say yay or nay till filming commences.

Emily not being demoted makes sense...she's married, her husband has fans/naysayers, her family life was atypical, can pot stir, and can make fun of herself.

Dr Jen is a mystery. I always have put her in the category of 'would have made a good housewife in the early seasons'  back before drama was a thing on these shows.  

In fact, she and Ryne offer an interesting role reversal where he's a house husband and she's the bread winner.  And the way she has trouble with alcohol, I don't blame him for checking out.  She also talks down to him where I'm rooting for him to divorce her.  If the roles are were reversed and he was talking down to her...social media would be telling her to dump him

Gretchen without Tamra would be interesting..to be honest.

RHOC:

Rumors for season 17 are surfacing with Gina being demoted, a former cast member coming back (not Tamra), and 2 new girls being tested with June/July being when filming starts.

Not sure if true..we shall see.

RC was good on AMC in the late 80s/early 90s as Skye.  But the show wrote her as her own worst enemy rather than a romantic lead.

Since AW, soaps have tried to cast her in a romantic lead and it never works (though I think she fit better on OLTL then GH as Skye).

I think Eva is a good addition to RHUGT...you need someone more lowkey on a show with 7 plastic looking train wrecks.

And maybe she'll contribute...Cynthia certainly did on season 1 of it.

9 hours ago, Tonksadora said:

As far as Susan Lucci goes, I'd be surprised if this was an unpopular opinion. I think it's almost universal that people think she was limited. But I wouldn't put the character in that lane. Maybe it's because I think about Vicky Wyndham's Rachel, who is after all, another Erica, just as Mona & Ada are parallel. Nixon had written the AMC show bible & gotten no takers on it when she went to work saving AW & Ada & Rachel fit right in. And, VW never did get her Emmy.

I give JFP credit for 2 things & only 2 things. 1) In regard to the murder of Frankie Frame at AW there is a name she could name which would take some of the heat off of her but she will not name them. I respect her for that. 2) Zaslow went to GL to get them to write ALS into his storyline & people began to plan out how they would do that until Rauch told them to stop, that it wasn't going to happen, so Zas sued & got whatever secret settlement & then went to OLTL with the same request & JFP made it happen. Sure, lots of people had to be involved in making that happen but she's the only one who could've said LETS GO. I admire her for that. I would be very curious what specifically is said to be her doing at SB.

Also, JFP called Jess Walton when she got to Y & R to come back after she had basically all but quit.