Soaplovers

NJ this past season is what happens when producers don't pull a OC season 9 fix.

Season 8 of OC.was fun...but it was starting to feel played out by the end of the season...with a revived Gretchen vs Tamra..and Alexis basically being iced out of a lot of events by the cast.  Producers saw how season 9 would not work with the cast in tact..and they dropped Alexis/Gretchen...with Lydia quitting.   Doing that helped usher in Shannon and Lizzie...and season 9 felt fresh.

NJ needs to either drop Teresa or Melissa.....and Aydin or Margaret..before it comes back another season.  Don't ignore it like Potomac seems to do

2 hours ago, TVFAN1144 said:

This was a great period.   All the vets were featured.  Slow moving, long conversations, and character development.  Loved the Bennet Hadley story.  I think the Stewart’s had just lost Dan so Kim and Betsy were grieving 

 

This period gave way to the “modernization “ period with split scenes and action oriented plots.  I guess I see the need to do that to compete with shows like All My Children that were making inroads.  My issue is it put veterans in situations out of character.  Not to mention that this next period gave us the super exciting Brad and Dee stuff

Problem was that his 13 weeks was too stodgy with not a lot of action.

Granted, the 1980 to 1983 period of trying to modernize the show was almost too far in the opposite direction.

Either the money was good...or Samantha won't be humiliated in her cameo.

And helps she won't have to be in the same space as her former co workers.

Lesson to all to always know your worth.

8 minutes ago, Faulkner said:

In the DAYS discussion thread, @j swift wrote, “I feel as if Kristen lost a lot of the charm gained through her friendship with Lani.” That sparked a thread idea on friendships that helped to redeem or at the very least softened or complicated a tricky or villainous character. I’m thinking Roger’s friendship with Maureen on GL or even Todd’s friendship with little Sarah and C.J. (perhaps creepy in hindsight) on OLTL.

Sometimes these friendships work well if the writing is there and the bad character isn’t completely exonerated. The more moral character sees the good in them but still holds them accountable. At other times, these friendships end up as shameless propping that ends up destroying the “good” character. (Phyllis/Hilary on Y&R was a friendship between two “bad” characters that helped both of them.) What are some examples?

When Eileen's Kristen came back in 2011, her friendship with Jennifer and her bond with young Ciara helped make her more human.

I think on AW, you had a former 'bad girl' befriend the current 'bad girl'.  Paulina/Cindy were a good example in the late 90s.. where you saw scenes of Cindy being conflicted helping Grant with a scheme he had against Joe/Paulina because of her friendship with Paulina.

But the weirdest friendship duo I ever saw was Nicole/Chloe on Days.  Both of them were sworn enemies that became unlikely friends... and there were moments where one was the voice of reason for the other.  It was such a bizarre friendship that actually worked.

And during the Sunset Beach era, when persumed dead Maria came back.. she was often the voice of reason/sounding board for Annie.

I sometimes liked the scan written episodes better so I hope they don't go dark (unless actors strike and then it will be moot).

I think Brenda Barrett on GH would kind of count.

She was introduced as the wild child younger sister to type A Julia and was just a spoiler to Karen/Jagger for the first several months of her stint.  Interesting..but nothing really indicated in those early months that she would be a leading lady...maybe an anti heroine.

Then the show knowing that Jagger and Karen were leaving the show, started to test Brenda to see where she would fit (in fact, I think it was a dream sequence of Brenda with most of the men)..and she/Sonny had chemistry..and the rest is history 

5 hours ago, Cat said:

I think that once Drew & Ralph's divorce starts to gather pace, ratings will go up. This is RHOA's 'unexpected scandal' moment which Bravo needs (and plans) to capitalise on. I haven't caught yesterday's episode yet, but thus far, Drew has been playing fake happy families on screen. This is the problem with Drew: she could be GREAT, but she's just good, because everyone's blind grandma can see that she is play-acting. Once she lets go of that, Drew could really go places on this show.

And this may be the problem with this season's cast. It is a good cast but it's not great by the standards of RHOA's golden era which lingers in the minds of the audience. Last season's reunion didn't have as much momentum going into this season as we've enjoyed in reunions past.

In a wider context, I think the show is still suffering from losing Porsha and firing Cynthia. Kenya has been curiously underpowered this season thus far. Sanya is ok but making classic newbie mistakes as she lets Sheree and Marlo use her against Kandi. And I agree with Kenya's latest Tweet: Marlo should not be a Real Housewife. For whatever reason, she's not up to it. She is doing too much and her acting is so poor. That tantrum she threw at Candiace's concert was cringe.

Despite all my criticism, i am actually really enjoying this season a lot. In addition to Drew's personal story percolating, another thing that has me intrigued is people going after Kandi and pointing out how she's swept stuff under the carpet. IMO this is long overdue. Kandi does great things for her community but she does have a few skeletons, and if others' get exposed, so should hers. Otherwise it is yet another season of Todd bitching about Kandi not having enough time for him.

Courtney is Yovanna 2.0. 

That's part of the problem with reality tv....pretending for the cameras.

Drew is afraid to let it all hang out....she needs to take lessons from Shannon Beador on how to be a housewife (i.e. being raw and not pretending).

The thing I liked about the mini series and the 1st full season with Pam was that she may have pulled herself up by the boot straps by working at the department store and marrying Bobby.. but there were times we were reminded that in her heart, she was a Waco girl... and had a coolness/strength that radiated.

Sadly.. that was lost as the show pressed on... though she could deliver a slap that packed a punch (i.e. Katherine when discovering she forged a letter to Bobby, and JR a few times).

Katzman didn't understand that the show was about JR and Pam... not JR and Bobby.

57 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

The main struggle with Pat is she would have been a complex female figure to write for, and this era of Knots didn't really do that, aside from Paige (and I think some of Paige's complexity is down to Nicolette Sheridan being such a unique presence). Frank was a warm, sympathetic support figure on an increasingly cold show with increasingly played out leads, so I can see his purpose. 

In another era of the show, or a world where a black woman was ever going to get much of a shot in TV at this point, Pat could have been a strong replacement for Laura, I agree.

Latham was not known for writing actual characters... only character achetypes.

And Pat was complex like Laura was..and played by a likable actress so Latham and Co were lost how to write for her.

And yes... Ms. Sheridan had such a unique presence that she made 1 D characters like Paige and Edie (from DH) so rich and likable/

I think Kristian Alfonso would have been a great asset to the show, had the show provided her with a character that wasn't a Melissa replacement.  KA was always cool, sarcastic with a hint of ice cold bitchiness... while Ana Alicia was more of an emotional tidal wave of emotion.  Two very good actresses... no way that either could be the replacement of the other.

I wished that Pat and Abby interacted more..if at all.  I could have seen Pat and Abby having the same dynamic as Abby and Laura did.  

She seemed like she could have easily filled the void left by Laura's departure.  She would have served the same function in Val's life as Laura had (not enabling Val like Karen did).

And I recall one of the conflicts between Frank and Pat was the fact she wanted to go back to being a doctor under her new alias...while Frank kept saying that would blow their cover..pointing out that he became a lawyer instead of a cop like in his previous life.

Pat's death actually hindered any story potential for Frank and Julie..more then opening up story potential.  Since the show was more female driven...perhaps Frank dying at the hands of Danny would have freed up Pat for more story opportunities.

And one element that made the Melanie being Carly's daughter story interesting was that Vivian had formed a bond/relationship with Melanie before that fact came out... and Vivian felt conflicted over what she should do.. and ultimately decided not to kill Melanie.  There also were a few scenes where Vivian and Mia didn't like one another... which was another red herring.

Diana in the first three seasons was written with more dimension.  She was the bossy older sister, but she also would call out Karen on her hypocrisy..and she had a few moments here and there where she was nice.

Once she became involved with Chip, any sort of dimension was wiped away.  At the end of her last season..she had become more tolerable living at Abbys, etc....but the character needed a breather.  And it.made sense for her to move to NYC since her love of fashion/design was established in season 3.

And I think Jill could have worked had the show not done the trying to kill Val story.  She could have easily moved into the Sumner group orbit...and she had legit beef with Paige.  Would have been a better rivalry then Linda vs Paige was.

The common thread in all these relationships is Taylor.

Perhaps maybe Taylor look within herself to see what she can fix about herself before she throws herself into another relationship.  It comes a time when someone needs to understand that they're responsible for their bad taste in people.. and not blame others.

I will agree that Cidre was able to craft some strong scenes such as the scene where the men were helping a calf be born... but she also seemed to not understand that one of the strengths of the original Dallas was the breakfast scenes out by the pool, the dinner scenes in the dining room, and also the post dinner drinks in the living room/family room.

Those scenes were where the family would talk about Ewing Oil, the ranch, and also their family/marital situations.  There could have been scenes with Bobby/Ann/Sue Ellen trying to have conversations with Christopher/John Ross/Pamela... and the generational divide between conversations and technology.

There were ways that a competent show runner could have updated the show to the 2010s and still had it be Dallas.

It all depends on her health... but it sounds like the door is open for another visit down the line once story and her health align.

Nina Webster on Y & R was a runaway pregnant teen that had her baby stolen by shady Rose.   She was supposed to be part of the teen summer story and then would be written off... but she ended up coming back weeks later found homeless by Chris/Philip... and she ended up a major focus in the late 80s through the 90s as the everywoman that was tied to the Chancellors

GL:   Jenna Bradshaw.  She was only intended as a 3 month role as a jewel thief with prior ties to Mallet... but she became a lead for while in 1993/4 (where she managed to take Spaulding E away from the Spauldings for several months).

AW:  Lorna Devon:  Was just a spoiler for Matt/Jenna and even was going to be written out in late 1991/early 1992 before she was revealed as Felicia's long lost child with Lucas.

Problem with the new Dallas was Cynthia Cidre did see it more like a crime drama..when the show should have been more like a family drama at heart.

She did say that she wrote character driven scenes..but TNT forced her to cut them.  And she admitted not knowing that if Sue Ellen won her race to be governor that she would be in Austin..not Dallas (however, two governors of Illinois lived in Chicago and not in Springfield...so I could have seen the show doing the same thing with Sue Ellen).

Speaking of Cynthia Cidre... her response in 2012 about her favorite show probably explains why she seems to have trouble with running shows:

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/dallas-cynthia-cidre-376016/#!

Cynthia Cidre admitted never seeing the original..and that each writer would view sections of the original show...so that could explain why the show seemed so disjointed with the self contained/soap structure.

I would have maybe did the more self contained format in the 1st season back...at least till we knew all the younger characters in adult form...while having Bobby/Sue Ellen/Jr crew keep the soapy aspect going since we all knew them.

She was there for about 9 to 10 months... and she was involved with Jimmy Smits.

I will say that Santana did get a good exit where she decided to start over in a new city and on the flight out of Santa Barbara ends up being hit on by a good looking guy.. and she laughs/smiles as she looks out the plane window saying good bye to her past and hello to her future.

1 hour ago, Faulkner said:

Luann and Sonja update The Simple Life for a new generation (featuring a certain late ‘80s pop star/dancer/choreographer-turned-reality TV judge).

 

As long both focus on the fun..I'm in.

Luann and Sonja have always had a fun relationship going back to season 3 where they were trading barbs as Jill Zarin was on speaker phone and being ignored by Luann/Sonja (during Sonja's 1st appearance on the show).

It's why I liked in the reunion movie that Paige finally decided to choose herself instead of being always second choice for Greg.  

19 hours ago, Khan said:

That makes sense, @Soaplovers.  I think the producers should have addressed that issue, too.  Val had been through every parent's worst nightmare.  Getting the twins back seemed to put a nice bow on everything, but it really shouldn't have.  We should've seen Val struggling even after getting Betsy and Bobby back.  Val should've been paranoid about losing them again to the point where she refuses to leave the house without them or have them sleep in another bedroom.  And Ben should've been beside himself (again) over how to handle the situation.

Of course, being the cruel bastard that I am, I would've had Ben convince Val to leave the twins at home with Lilimae or one of Karen's sons for an evening out with Mack and Karen, only to have Ben and Val return home that night to discover that the twins have been abducted yet again.

We did see a hint of that during Val's 'poor Jill' rant after Jill spoke to the twins and asked them not to tell her.

And let's not forget the whole reason for Val's breakdown was thinking she lost her 2nd chance at being a mom after having Lucy taken from her.  And add to that no one believing her that she heard the twins cry..and you just knew she would crack.

She could survive losing Gary both times since she managed to pull herself up by the boot straps and made a life for herself...but losing her 2nd chance at motherhood (not from the babies dying, but being stolen)..out of the question.

In fact, season 8 Jean Hackney story would have been a bit better had she threatened to harm or take the twins due to Ben not adhering to her orders to kill Greg.  So Val would resent Ben..Ben would do anything to protect Val/twins..and Laura/Val's friendship would be affected.  And perhaps I would have killed Ben...who died to protect Val/twins.

And it would be an organic obstacle for Val/Gary since she would always put Ben on a higher pedestal then Gary going forward...and feel guilt for resenting Ben.