Soaplovers

Newman was lured back in 1993.. and the plan had been originally to do a Harley/Mallet/Josh triangle.. but I'm guessing between the time the show was trying to pure Newman back and him agreeing.. both Beth E and Mark D opted to quit the show.

I remember Josh first coming back with him coming to Harley and she basically letting him have it for basically dumping her and then expecting to come back like nothing happened.  Plus Mallet/Josh butted heads because of Julie/Dylan's busted wedding.  

However, the back up plan for Josh (Tangie) didn't work.

From what I read the actor opted to quit so he just vanished without explanation.

You could almost see that Chase/Nina seemed to be end game during the whole David Kimball story... though I could have seen young Victoria having a crush on Chase thus Chase/Nina/Victoria could have been a thing

37 minutes ago, Bright Eyes said:

Today reminded me that Leo's worst crime is how Diana's character was thrown under the bus for him. That would be the first thing I would fix before sending him away from Salem forever. It sickens me that he's her son and whatever the hell that notDiana return was. 

Diana wasn't thrown under the bus for Leo... because Diana was never given an actual character other then what Genie Francis infused into the character.. which changed quite a bit.

Genie Francis spoke about how it was frustrating to play Diana because the show never gave her an actual character to play.  In fact, she said Diana was a bit part that they expanded once Days secured her.   And she did leave mysteriously by slicking her hair back, putting on a wig and leaving in the night.  So maybe what we saw was the real Diana

3 hours ago, DaytimeFan said:

The problem is I don't think many of the women have much going on. The show is their job, their friends don't want to be filmed, and most of them already feature what family they do have.

Cigs & Wigs is a draw only because her life is imploding right now and it's ugly. It's not #Scandoval, but people would tune in for it. If Bravo doesn't have a camera crew following Kim around they've made a big mistake. 

Only if Wigs moves her brood into a townhouse again like in the good old days.

18 hours ago, Antoyne said:

This cast truly lacks chemistry and it’s hurting the show. It feels like they barely tolerate each other. 

This is basically the same cast as season 14 and everyone I knew said that the cast just didn't gel.

So when I heard there was no shake up at all, I knew this show was in trouble.  I don't think Nene/Kim Z is the answer to fixing the show because neither one of them are the same people that they were in the first seasons of the show.

I'm going to be honest and say that they shouldn't be filming together.. and that instead maybe show us their lives with their jobs, friends and family.   

And hell no to Kim Fields ever coming back.  That is one toxic condescending woman... and I don't think she bested Kenya at the reunion.  It was a draw..imho.

Now that I'm thinking about it, anytime someone semi famous does one of these housewife shows.. I end up not liking them anymore (Rinna, Kim Fields, Heather Dubrow, Eileen, and Garcelle/Denise Richards is on my side eye list).   Maybe actors/actresses shouldn't do these shows if they hope to have a long lasting acting career LOL 

I remember reading back in early 1994 that the reason Jagger/Karen left suddenly together was due to a few things.  Sabato Jr only signed a 2 year contract while Cari S had signed a 3 year control... so when he opted not to renew his contract, the show was trying to decide how to proceed.  They had considered having the two break up with Jagger leaving and Karen staying.. but Cari S had hinted she probably wouldn't renew her contract in a year so the show opted to write them out together rather then try to introduce a new love interest for Karen (which shows how much the show probably realized that Karen wasn't as important to the show as a character).

Brenda probably benefited from both Jagger/Karen leaving and was given more attention/focus since she would be staying on so she had to become more then just a chip on her should vixen.. she needed to have more layers to her.  And I think the show could move on from the Sonny angle easier since Karen was off the canvas.  Had she not had chemistry with Sonny.. I truly think both characters wouldn't have stayed on long term.

I always think of Julia/Brenda on GH in the same vein as Casey/Nikki on Y & R.  Career driven/over responsible individuals with issues/trauma from their parent.. that shielded their younger wild child younger sibling from the parent... and both of them trying to help their younger sibling from being self-destructive... and both of those said younger siblings end up becoming iconic characters on both of their soaps while their older sibling ended up leaving after a few years.

Marland did say that GL was the easiest soap for him to take over...that the Dobson's left it in such great shape.  And a lot of his first year on GL was finishing out some of what the Dobson's had written.

I did read a rumor once that in 1985, he was given a choice of GL and ATWT...and he picked ATWT.  Not sure if true..and what his reasonings were for choosing ATWT at that point...other then ATWT had somewhat been fixed by Horgan Bledsoe while GL was knee deep into the Infinity story (which maybe Marland didn't want to touch with a 10 foot pole lol)

What I never understood was why the show didn't just write off Josh/Reva as leaving town instead of having Reva drive off the bridge... especially since he ended up leaving within 6 months after she did.

That way, the show wouldn't of had to do all the stupid things they did later in the mid 90s

11 minutes ago, kalbir said:

Late 1970s was ABC huge rise and P&G shows tanked. Did viewers suddenly switch over from P&G to ABC, or did ABC get a whole bunch of new viewers?

Y&R was going strong in the late 1970s but would stumble in 1980 after expanding to one hour and changing time slots.

My guess is that ABC ended up getting younger viewers (high school and college aged) that didn't want to watch soaps that their parents watched (which were P & G).

Nick and Sharon.... yuck

B & B... so basically lather, rinse, and repeat

15 hours ago, Khan said:

That's interesting, @Paul Raven.  Immediately, when I read your post, I thought, "Well, maybe Douglas Marland didn't receive on-air credit, because he was technically still employed at GH," kind of like how Frank Salisbury admitted to writing for GL some time before actually being credited on-screen because he was still writing scripts for GH, too.  But I don't know exactly when Marland quit GH, so that theory might not be plausible.

(Also, hasn't Bridget Dobson said in the past that P&G had them switch shows, because they found Marland's bible for ATWT unsatisfactory?  Of course, I'm presuming Bridget is correct and not misremembering.)

I agree with you, @Paul Raven.  I think when Marland became available after leaving GH, P&G snapped him up, rather than lose out to another, non-P&G-produced show.  P&G's plan was for him to replace the Dobsons at GL, and for the Dobsons to replace Ellis & Hunt at ATWT.  However, for contractual or other reasons, the Dobsons were unable to leave GL before the start of the new year.  (Perhaps, they needed time to wrap up their stories before leaving; or perhaps, they needed time to watch and create a bible for ATWT before officially taking over).  So, P&G gave Marland the ATWT gig with the understanding that it was only temporary and that he would be moved over to GL when the Dobsons were contractually able to move over to ATWT.  Thus explains why Marland didn't make any major changes at ATWT during the 13 weeks he was there.

Like you said, @Paul Raven, it's a mystery, lol.

I'd love to know, though, if any fans here remember what the Willows mystery was like when Ellis & Hunt were still the HW's.  I think it was Christopher Schemering who described it as being "limp" before Marland took over the story.

I think the issue was that Douglas Marland was too locked into his job at ATWT being a temporary one until Bridget and Jerome Dobson were ready to take over (as I've said above).  Under those circumstances, he probably couldn't shake up the show TOO much, in case it interfered with the Dobsons' plans.  So, he kind of had to continue on with what Ralph Ellis & Eugenie Hunt had left behind, and maybe tighten up the stories in the meantime.

But you are right, @Soaplovers: compared to what soaps give us today, late '79 ATWT is a joy of watch, but in the context of the times, the Willows storyline, in particular, never quite gets off the ground.  ETA: Maybe it's because I'm watching those scenes decades after the fact, but it seems silly to me that the show invested so much airtime in someone (Doug Higgins/Bennett Hadley) who clearly has no long-term potential, either as Lisa's romantic interest, or as anything else.

I view The Willows to be a rough draft for Nola/Quint at Thornbury Hill.

If you think about it...you had the 'anti-heroine' needing a break from conflicts in their lives, they stumble into a gothic location, and become friendly with a mysterious man that we aren't sure is a good or bad soul.

Had Marland stayed on beyond those 13 weeks..he might have done more with the Willow story.. or he maybe used it as a stop gap for Grant/Lisa until he could get Joyce back onto the show.

2 hours ago, Cat said:

A Rinna-free RHOBH is a ways away (November), but I am willing it to do well. I know Housewives Twitter will be decrying BH as 'boring' without her mean-spiritedness and dirty tricks, but I'm hoping for some light-heartedness and contentious Annemarie giving drama.

 

I think Marge & Jennifer have a bit more shelf-life than Melissa & Teresa. Melissa is a low-achiever who lucked out with +12 years on this show, thanks to her husband. 

I think Teresa would be far happier with a Bravo spin-off. I actually love watching Teresa and her family. If they ever wanted to reboot RHONJ with the kids -- Gia, Gabriella, Milania, Audriana, plus Antonia/Joey/Gio, plus Frankie, I'd be for it.

I'd keep Dolores because she knows everybody, past and present. Not that Dina would ever rejoin the show, but my God, what a rivalry that would be.

Agree to disagree about Aydin and Margaret having more shelf life.  Aydin is just unwatchable to me...If I had money I'd pay for Bill's divorce lawyer so he doesn't have to be married to her.

NJ this past season is what happens when producers don't pull a OC season 9 fix.

Season 8 of OC.was fun...but it was starting to feel played out by the end of the season...with a revived Gretchen vs Tamra..and Alexis basically being iced out of a lot of events by the cast.  Producers saw how season 9 would not work with the cast in tact..and they dropped Alexis/Gretchen...with Lydia quitting.   Doing that helped usher in Shannon and Lizzie...and season 9 felt fresh.

NJ needs to either drop Teresa or Melissa.....and Aydin or Margaret..before it comes back another season.  Don't ignore it like Potomac seems to do

2 hours ago, TVFAN1144 said:

This was a great period.   All the vets were featured.  Slow moving, long conversations, and character development.  Loved the Bennet Hadley story.  I think the Stewart’s had just lost Dan so Kim and Betsy were grieving 

 

This period gave way to the “modernization “ period with split scenes and action oriented plots.  I guess I see the need to do that to compete with shows like All My Children that were making inroads.  My issue is it put veterans in situations out of character.  Not to mention that this next period gave us the super exciting Brad and Dee stuff

Problem was that his 13 weeks was too stodgy with not a lot of action.

Granted, the 1980 to 1983 period of trying to modernize the show was almost too far in the opposite direction.

Either the money was good...or Samantha won't be humiliated in her cameo.

And helps she won't have to be in the same space as her former co workers.

Lesson to all to always know your worth.

8 minutes ago, Faulkner said:

In the DAYS discussion thread, @j swift wrote, “I feel as if Kristen lost a lot of the charm gained through her friendship with Lani.” That sparked a thread idea on friendships that helped to redeem or at the very least softened or complicated a tricky or villainous character. I’m thinking Roger’s friendship with Maureen on GL or even Todd’s friendship with little Sarah and C.J. (perhaps creepy in hindsight) on OLTL.

Sometimes these friendships work well if the writing is there and the bad character isn’t completely exonerated. The more moral character sees the good in them but still holds them accountable. At other times, these friendships end up as shameless propping that ends up destroying the “good” character. (Phyllis/Hilary on Y&R was a friendship between two “bad” characters that helped both of them.) What are some examples?

When Eileen's Kristen came back in 2011, her friendship with Jennifer and her bond with young Ciara helped make her more human.

I think on AW, you had a former 'bad girl' befriend the current 'bad girl'.  Paulina/Cindy were a good example in the late 90s.. where you saw scenes of Cindy being conflicted helping Grant with a scheme he had against Joe/Paulina because of her friendship with Paulina.

But the weirdest friendship duo I ever saw was Nicole/Chloe on Days.  Both of them were sworn enemies that became unlikely friends... and there were moments where one was the voice of reason for the other.  It was such a bizarre friendship that actually worked.

And during the Sunset Beach era, when persumed dead Maria came back.. she was often the voice of reason/sounding board for Annie.

I sometimes liked the scan written episodes better so I hope they don't go dark (unless actors strike and then it will be moot).

I think Brenda Barrett on GH would kind of count.

She was introduced as the wild child younger sister to type A Julia and was just a spoiler to Karen/Jagger for the first several months of her stint.  Interesting..but nothing really indicated in those early months that she would be a leading lady...maybe an anti heroine.

Then the show knowing that Jagger and Karen were leaving the show, started to test Brenda to see where she would fit (in fact, I think it was a dream sequence of Brenda with most of the men)..and she/Sonny had chemistry..and the rest is history 

5 hours ago, Cat said:

I think that once Drew & Ralph's divorce starts to gather pace, ratings will go up. This is RHOA's 'unexpected scandal' moment which Bravo needs (and plans) to capitalise on. I haven't caught yesterday's episode yet, but thus far, Drew has been playing fake happy families on screen. This is the problem with Drew: she could be GREAT, but she's just good, because everyone's blind grandma can see that she is play-acting. Once she lets go of that, Drew could really go places on this show.

And this may be the problem with this season's cast. It is a good cast but it's not great by the standards of RHOA's golden era which lingers in the minds of the audience. Last season's reunion didn't have as much momentum going into this season as we've enjoyed in reunions past.

In a wider context, I think the show is still suffering from losing Porsha and firing Cynthia. Kenya has been curiously underpowered this season thus far. Sanya is ok but making classic newbie mistakes as she lets Sheree and Marlo use her against Kandi. And I agree with Kenya's latest Tweet: Marlo should not be a Real Housewife. For whatever reason, she's not up to it. She is doing too much and her acting is so poor. That tantrum she threw at Candiace's concert was cringe.

Despite all my criticism, i am actually really enjoying this season a lot. In addition to Drew's personal story percolating, another thing that has me intrigued is people going after Kandi and pointing out how she's swept stuff under the carpet. IMO this is long overdue. Kandi does great things for her community but she does have a few skeletons, and if others' get exposed, so should hers. Otherwise it is yet another season of Todd bitching about Kandi not having enough time for him.

Courtney is Yovanna 2.0. 

That's part of the problem with reality tv....pretending for the cameras.

Drew is afraid to let it all hang out....she needs to take lessons from Shannon Beador on how to be a housewife (i.e. being raw and not pretending).

The thing I liked about the mini series and the 1st full season with Pam was that she may have pulled herself up by the boot straps by working at the department store and marrying Bobby.. but there were times we were reminded that in her heart, she was a Waco girl... and had a coolness/strength that radiated.

Sadly.. that was lost as the show pressed on... though she could deliver a slap that packed a punch (i.e. Katherine when discovering she forged a letter to Bobby, and JR a few times).

Katzman didn't understand that the show was about JR and Pam... not JR and Bobby.

57 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

The main struggle with Pat is she would have been a complex female figure to write for, and this era of Knots didn't really do that, aside from Paige (and I think some of Paige's complexity is down to Nicolette Sheridan being such a unique presence). Frank was a warm, sympathetic support figure on an increasingly cold show with increasingly played out leads, so I can see his purpose. 

In another era of the show, or a world where a black woman was ever going to get much of a shot in TV at this point, Pat could have been a strong replacement for Laura, I agree.

Latham was not known for writing actual characters... only character achetypes.

And Pat was complex like Laura was..and played by a likable actress so Latham and Co were lost how to write for her.

And yes... Ms. Sheridan had such a unique presence that she made 1 D characters like Paige and Edie (from DH) so rich and likable/

I think Kristian Alfonso would have been a great asset to the show, had the show provided her with a character that wasn't a Melissa replacement.  KA was always cool, sarcastic with a hint of ice cold bitchiness... while Ana Alicia was more of an emotional tidal wave of emotion.  Two very good actresses... no way that either could be the replacement of the other.

I wished that Pat and Abby interacted more..if at all.  I could have seen Pat and Abby having the same dynamic as Abby and Laura did.  

She seemed like she could have easily filled the void left by Laura's departure.  She would have served the same function in Val's life as Laura had (not enabling Val like Karen did).

And I recall one of the conflicts between Frank and Pat was the fact she wanted to go back to being a doctor under her new alias...while Frank kept saying that would blow their cover..pointing out that he became a lawyer instead of a cop like in his previous life.

Pat's death actually hindered any story potential for Frank and Julie..more then opening up story potential.  Since the show was more female driven...perhaps Frank dying at the hands of Danny would have freed up Pat for more story opportunities.

And one element that made the Melanie being Carly's daughter story interesting was that Vivian had formed a bond/relationship with Melanie before that fact came out... and Vivian felt conflicted over what she should do.. and ultimately decided not to kill Melanie.  There also were a few scenes where Vivian and Mia didn't like one another... which was another red herring.

Diana in the first three seasons was written with more dimension.  She was the bossy older sister, but she also would call out Karen on her hypocrisy..and she had a few moments here and there where she was nice.

Once she became involved with Chip, any sort of dimension was wiped away.  At the end of her last season..she had become more tolerable living at Abbys, etc....but the character needed a breather.  And it.made sense for her to move to NYC since her love of fashion/design was established in season 3.

And I think Jill could have worked had the show not done the trying to kill Val story.  She could have easily moved into the Sumner group orbit...and she had legit beef with Paige.  Would have been a better rivalry then Linda vs Paige was.