Soaplovers

Focusing the last few years on Sky/Raven hurt the show.  

Soaps usually tend to improve during strikes because the fi core writers are left alone..and can actually write and craft short term stuff as a stop gap.

Only positive of a writer strike..imho

Kathy was the heavy/anti heroine of the soap in the 50s.  From what I have 4ead, apparently Irna Phillips grew tired of the character and killed her off in the late 50s.

However, it would have been interesting to see how her character would have fared in the 60s especially with the teen romance between her daughter Robin and Meta's nephew Mike that happened...maybe Robin would have given Kathy as much grief as Kathy gave Meta.

12 hours ago, dc11786 said:

Marland doesn't seem to get the Bristows. They definitely were more in flavor with what Nixon would cook up. I don't think Marland nixed the impotence storyline; I suspect that was ABC. I could be wrong though. Nixon's original intentions outlined in the bible seemy less hokey than the type of characters she typically would write like Opal Gardner. 

What I outlined is from Nixon's original bible. A lot of the more interesting elements never made it on screen and that's why I suspect there was network interference. Lorna's interracial marriage. Billy's impotence. I think Nixon suspected there would be interference because the Lily Slater storyline is presented in a way that if ABC wasn't comfortable with sexual incest that emotional incest could lead to similar results. I imagine that concessions made have had to be made and Nixon choose the incest angle because it was a story she may have intended for Palmer and Nina, but was never allowed to tell. The incest story gets a significant amount of space in the bible including research on the subject. 

Marland's biggest influence on Corinth that went against the grain of Nixon's view was the corporate landscape. All of the Alden Enterprises wheeling and dealing is slowly dropped over the course of about six to eight months. Similarly, the corporate element of Shana and Leo is dropped in late 1993 when Nixon takes over from Guza/Taggart. 

Considering everything that has gone over the last several years with colleges (Lori Loughlin scandal, affirmative action being ruled as a no no by the supreme court, now tackling legacy admissions at Harvard).... a soap set in a college town that focuses on students, family that founded the college, alumni, townies, etc would totally be a relevant soap opera.

It's just that Nixon was again ahead of the curve and it's a shame her ideas were diluted by the network and to a lesser extent Marland (who eventually became like a Thomas Kinkaide painting by the time he worked on ATWT).

Rita Mae seemed like she would have been a perfect Nixon esque character.. and I wonder what Nixon would have done with her character vs the untapped potential when Marland was headwriting

Jessel is blunt and probably stand to maybe filter her comments a bit.  At the same time, maybe she felt comfortable enough to be honest with how she felt.

Ubae is much more fun then her cousin.

Sai is like every gay guy friend I have where they pack way more than needed (options for every mood they might be) and one of my 'friends' is an aspiring content creator and I roll my eyes sometimes at him..and he does so with me since I only pack 3 sets of clothes for a 2 day trip (and I try to keep everything to one medium bag).

Jenna is more an introvert so she's slow to warm and relax

Corday's mom is turning over in her grave.  She was the one to save the show in the mid to late 60s after her husband passed...and helped keep things going till the mid 80s when her son took over after she passed.

Maybe time for one of his 3 kids to take over 

From what I understand Colgate exited out of the television production business in 1980 and NBC probably offered to resume production/owernship of the show.. hence why it continued for 2 more years or so until it canceled it.   As it turns out, maybe it wasn't for the best to let NBC have ownership of the soap since the quality declined and now believed 'lost'.  

Grace was supposed to be the nurse with a heart of gold that provided the nurturing the interns needed while Ellen provided them with the ins and outs of being doctors.

I remember people liking Grace..but felt she was wasted as the loser in the Ellen/Matt/Grace story.

Just from watching the 1 full episode, I can see why it didn't take off.

It's beautifully shot, but there's nothing that sets it apart... no distintive hook or identity unlike the following big 4 soaps:

Dallas was about the oil and rancher businesses with two feuding families.

Knots Landing was about upper middle class families in a Calfornia suburb

Falcon Crest was about a family that owned a vineyard

Dynasty was about new money in Denver that deal with oil, hotels, and especially about manners.

With that said, I thought Jessica Walter was a worthy recast for Lee Grant while Muffin had a much bigger part it seems in the show.  She seems more like a grey character... or is she. 

19 minutes ago, j swift said:

While watching the soaps on Friday, I was struck by the number of plot points that seem out of touch with contemporary culture.  So, I did a bit of research to see how common the following issues are in 2023

1. Sanitariums - obviously the word itself is obsolete, most are referred to as "mental health facilities".  The average stay in a mental hospital is 4–7 days, at a cost of $1,000 per day.  Drug rehabs are licensed separately from mental health centers, they are rarely locked, and they average $10,000 per stay.  Most private insurance carriers would not allow a drug rehab patient to be housed at a mental health facility because it is more expensive.  So the idea that citizens of Port Charles check themselves in, for months at a time, seems unlikely.  And don't get me started on the trope of the evil psychiatrist who either wants to use ECT, drugs, or restraints to control a patient, while in reality client's rights advocates would drum them out of a job in a second!
2. Private Detectives - according to the US Bureau of Labor Statistics there were 32,000 licensed private investigators in the entire country with an average annual income of $53,000 working as of May 2023.  So, what is the likelihood that a small town like Salem would have so many of them?  This is clearly a profession that has been made redundant by technology.  Most people wouldn't think of hiring a private detective when they could just do an online search, and 90% of cases involve background searches for prior court records, which seems boring for an action oriented guy like Patch Johnson.
3. Matchmakers - another job that seems to have been replaced by technology.  Yet, a New York Times piece in 2021 suggested that the average fee for a matchmaker in New York was close to $100,000. A recent episode of DAYS utilized the concept of a matchmaker in order to justify how two enemies could've been paired up on a blind date.  However, find me a Millennial in 2023 seeking a partner who isn't on an app that requires pictures like Tindr, Hinge, or even Christian Mingle!
4. Wealthy patients at University Hospitals - Salem and Port Charles are known for their medical education, and they've both graduated many doctors and nurses.  However, beyond the fact that none of the faculty has active research grants which is the primary source of income at university settings (schools usually take 30% of every federal grant), they are appointed without application through the University, and they never discuss tenure, why would the richest families in town seek treatment at a university hospital when private facilities exist?  In Los Angeles, most wealthy women would prefer to give birth at Ceders Sinai where they have luxurious private birthing rooms over UCLA where the maternity ward is old and communal.  

Those are some of the issues that were specific to the storytelling on July 21, 2023.  What are the other plot points that you've noticed that don't seem modern or up to date?

Editor's note: 1953 was chosen because that was the year that private detective licenses were first available nation-wide.

Matchmakers should make a comeback... because most people in their 30s and younger don't seem to have good judgement/taste when it comes to picking someone to date.  Some of my friends were matched unofficially by a mutual friend and are still happily together so maybe tinder, etc isn't exactly a good thing

5 hours ago, Cat said:

@DaytimeFan thought you'd appreciate Sonja's response to Bravo promoting the new RHONY reboot 

 

 

 

I watched. And.... rather enjoyed it. *hides* It feels like a whooooole different show, more in common with RHODubai. This does not take away from my deep and abiding love of OG RHONY, which is the RHONY of boomers and early Gen Xers, of old-school, non-standardized Manhattan. It was messy and quirky and non-self-aware hilarious. Obviously the last few seasons curdled for a variety of reasons. I still say that both OG and this new entry can co-exist. The OG RHONY UGT may decide whether that actually happens.

This nu-RHONY, by contrast, is very millennial and Instagram-curated. All (or most -- I'll get to that later) of the homes look spotless and incredible, like prepped for a photo shoot but not actually lived in. It's all very aspirational, maybe a little too much so, because behind those carefully curated images, I feel someone is going to crack. My money is on Jessel first, who isn't just going through a (rather obvious) divorce, but also seems very aware that these women are competing with each other in terms of their 'aesthetic' and fashion and homes. Erin, too, comes across as a little Bethennyesque and hyper-competitive. The others, like Brynn, Sai and Ubah, make it less obvious that they might be assessing whether their stuff is better than Jenna's stuff.

Jenna is the Queen Bee. I like the work she did to bring J Crew into the 2000s, and I like her quirkiness here.  She also came out a few days ago about a genetic disorder she has which means she has to wear wigs and false teeth (https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2023/07/jenna-lyons-on-being-outed-and-her-fake-teeth#:~:text=During the appearance%2C she also,lot of money for them.”). The article refers to her talking about wanting to go into fashion so that she could gain control over her physical appearance and try and fit in.

She is very much an OCD Fashion Person, though (and if you've ever had to accommodate an OCD Fashion Person in the work arena, the demands from them are INSANE). On the show it sometimes comes across like she is just a little too curated and particular with her party themes and personal taste. Including the open-shirt/necklaces/boobs-out look she invented. Also, I cannot vibe with her apartment. It looks dark and melancholic, with all the natural light shuttered away. It's also staged to look expensive, but I'm not sure her furnishings and trimmings are that good quality. Ok, ok, bitchiness over!

Erin and Jessel, as I said, are very aware of the pecking order and lowkey worried about not coming out on, or near, the top. Erin is also milking this frenemyship with Brynn for all it is worth.

Brynn has already decided that she is the pot-stirrer. Didn't see as much of her this episode, but I'm guessing ep. 2 she gets more airtime.

Ubah doesn't have (yet) the sparkle and Alpha Female personality of her cousin, Chanel Ayan, but she does seem fun.

I cannot shake the feeling that Sai might be a one-season wonder, but I'm not sure why. 

I'll be tuning into Episode 2.

And the vibe, as @Faulkner pointed out, was more Brooklyn than Manhattan, even though most of the women live Downtown. It really shows just how much the crazy wealth of the super-rich + huge tourist numbers + 0% interest rates (which overinflated the value of other assets, especially real estate) has completely changed NYC in the past 15 years. Manhattan is for the uber-wealthy, or those with a hefty real estate investment, or the tourists. Normally-wealthy NYC have decamped to and gentrified Brooklyn and other boroughs. 

 

RHOC

Tamra is doing A LOT. Too much! I would have probably lunged at her if she'd tossed that napkin in my face, so kudos to Jenn for drawing on her years of yoga training and keeping her reaction under control. Having said that, this episode was apparently the highest rated of the season thus far. Tamra is going back to her Greatest Hits to try and woo the audience. I'm not mad about it, as it is way more entertaining and watchable than the last few seasons.

Even if it is contrived, I'm enjoying RHOC because the other women are lowkey calling out the contrivances of everybody. It's part of the theme this season. Heather, for example, is also being called out on her fear of confronting Old-New Queen Bee Tamra. Emily is doing a great job of asking the questions that matter of these women!

...Except for Gina who is equally as contrived and all the more irritating for it. Gina has a problem with Jenn and with Heather for sh!t that is really Gina's problem, not theirs's. Also that fake loud laugh with Travis in next week's trailer. 

Emily's phone call with her mom was unexpectedly tender and lovely. Shane continues to not give a F.

Next week: Vicki is back!

Sai is new money..which is why I can sense a warmth and good natured humor in her...because she grew up working class.

I love that Brooklyn is be all end all in NYC now...after years of Alex being made fun of for living there.  I think Alex would have fit in better with the crowd..imho.

Ubah being the exact opposite so far of her bitch of a cousin Aylan is why I like her so far.  She seems less snooty and laid back.

OC:

Tamra has been right about Brooks, Gretchen, Jim, etc..so she's probably right about Jen's boyfriend.  She needs to back off because she's looking worse than the other person...maybe she take a page out of Meghan's Nancy Drew playbook.

Jen is interesting to me...she seems calm and has a backbone.  She understands Gina's issue with her, but also has said 'it's not my responsibility to not be a trigger for you.'.  And she riled Tamra up by saying 'watch your step'...which makes me think Jen knows something about Tamra...or else why Tamra run off like that.

Emily was being a good friend by nicely pointing out to Heather that she does talk down to people and can lack self awareness...which Heather did not like.  (She can dish it out but not take it).

4 hours ago, Vee said:

Hillary critiqued the network and the shooting schedule, but not Frank itself. That may be it. I do know ABC really fùcked with her during her contract coma in the mid-2000s, when Nora was within a hair's breadth of death for months. She never mentioned FV when discussing that drama, but it was also while the show was still on.

HBS being the rep during negotiations is the piece of the puzzle that explained why she was mistreated by the network..and her character was degraded.

Not sure if posted before...but a history of past strikes.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/UsefulNotes/TVStrikes#:~:text=This three-month strike was to establish compensation for,took over for Jean Doumanian as executive producer.

1985 wga strike is probably one of the main reasons the WGA has held firm in future strikes...and led to the 2007/8 strike...which helped WGA writers get hired for streaming shows.

It isn't that much of an increase so I'll keep it.  I watch Bravo and Hallmark content.. plus they have a decent horror movie selection.   It's still cheaper then Disney+ or Netflix... which I canceled.

Still... I watch Tubi for a lot of older movies and tv shows (like Facts of Life, Family, Eight is Enough, etc).

RHONY - Season 14

I'm curious why Andy and co didn't cast Jenna on season 12 or 13 of NY?  She had the fashion cred (J Crew), a business, part of the LGBTQ+ community, and is very eccentric/quirky.... plus she is 50+ years old.   She would have fit in much better with the OG then Leah ever did..imho.. and she might have been a better bridge between the OG's and Eboni.

@DaytimeFan  It's just the first episode.. and pilot episodes usually introduce the players, get to know them, etc.  I'm willing to give this more time since I do seem to like the women so far.

This wouldn't be a problem had our government put limits on the use of AI... to be used more as a proof reader and maybe even to help out with character inconsistency.

5 hours ago, Mitch64 said:

India was going to be Beth's cousin...kind of slutty and trashy but when MKA read for it Long, a smart cookie when picking talent...created India.  She then created Roxie (or she was in the works) to take care of the slut factor and poor Jesse just became Beth's boring bland cousin, a watered down Beth. 

India was supposed to be Beth's cousin... and both MKA and Kristi Farrell auditioned for the part... but Pam Long loved both actresses and couldn't see either fitting the role the way it was written so she created the wild, but sweet Roxie for Kristi .. and the posh and vixenish India for MKA.   

And the thing was that Jessie wasn't even a watered down Beth.. because Beth had an edge and wasn't some naive simp (thanks to Judi Evans).   I think Jessie seemed more like an Eve Stapleton than a Beth Raines..imho

It appears as though Simon and Jessie were both introduced at the very end of Pam Long's 1st stint as headwriter... so it makes sense her original intent wasn't to pair either character together.  

It seemed as though Simon was always going to be in the India/Alex orbit... though I wonder what the original intent was for Jessie... who I think should have been more of a wild girl pretending to be a good girl (since the actress who played Jessie played gray characters much better in other works).

8 hours ago, Forever8 said:

This!

The TPTB (The Powers That Be) thinks if they say certain buzzwords such as podcasts, media, etc., it's going to be enough for the avid viewer. However, those viewers who have been watching for the most part have been watching for years and recall how Jabot and Newman would delve not only into the business machinations but the products as well, i.e., Tuvia, Safra, Brash and Sassy, etc. This week they even had Billy mention that Jabot should do a teen fragrant line, which I said to the screen, "You mean like Glo By Jabot?" imagining correlating that with the young adults on screen. Then you remember that this show doesn't value characters under 30.

 

 

The show could have done more follow up to Billy's statement about doing a teen fragrance line... by mentioning that the customer base for Glo By Jabot are now in their 30s/40s.. and they're not attracting a youth demo anymore.    So I could see Billy and marketing debating if they want to attract the youth demo for Glo By Jabot thus risking the loss of their loyal base that has grown up with the product.. or starting a new line to attract the high school/college crowd of 2023.

12 hours ago, Vee said:

I didn't see this speech, so apologies if it's up again:

 

 

I think people, and studios, assume that Fran Drescher is Fran Fine... and that is a very bad thing to assume.  As she proved in this video, she isn't Fran Fine.   

Money is tight so naturally hire the actor thirsty for a gig.

11 hours ago, Cat said:

Lord. I'm getting desperate RHONJ S5 vibes here with these hangers-on thinking theyve got a chance on the show.

Yikes. And I don't disagree with the writer's view on where RHONY went wrong. But yeah, I can't shake the feeling that it might be a whole lot of style over substance. I'll give it a shot though.

NYC seems to be a lot of style over substance.   Tinsley and her mother Dale are textbook of that.. plus too much co-dependency.

From what I understand, actors/performers can do music videos, educational videos, and commercials during this strike.

It seems that the sticking point in these talks with both unions are AI and residuals over content being played on streaming platforms.  Previous strikes involved residuals from reruns, home video, DVD, so now streaming platforms is the next thing.   And AI is a scary thing so good on both unions.

I doubt NBC would wipe out episodes by 1980...the norm by then was not to do that.

Did NBC confirm those episodes are wiped out?