Soaplovers

It sounds like Robert/Iris was another version of Robert/India on Somerset.

Didn't Robert break free from India because she was too status conscious and went for Jessica?  And was Jessica level headed like Lenore..or more like Clarice in terms of personality?

I wonder who Todd Williams would have been tempted by... that would cause Mary Williams severe anxiety that made the anxiety she felt about Paul's escapades pale in comparison?

I think the Williams family had an interesting set up that sadly got lost in the expansion to an hour in 1980.  We had the working class cop Carl, his stay at home traditional wife Mary, their oldest son Steven that followed the more traditional teachings of his family, their son Todd that was studying to be a priest, the rebellious son Paul, and then the youngest Patty that was young and naive.

I often wonder if Bell had watched Saturday Night Fever since a lot of the early Williams structured seem to be modeled after the Manero family in the movie.   Blue collar rough around the edges dad, the eldest son studying to be a priest (who briefly steps back from being a priest to experience the real world), the younger son that loved dancing/women, and then the youngest daughter.. who was the observant young girl observing this family structure.

The Macy/Thorne/Anthony/Ivana story was probably the best of the stories going on in early 1995.. followed by Sheila's final descent of terror before she was exposed in mid 1995.  Both stories provided welcome/relief from the neverending Brooke/Ridge/Taylor saga.

I recall Eva's small bubble of cast-mates that she interacted with on a consistent basis was usually Paul, Michael, Chris, Mary, and eventually Diane.  She did have some interaction with Lauren and Nikki (in fact, Nikki did caution Paul not to move to fast with Isabella).  So it made sense she and Eric didn't know of one another on the set.

And sometimes Eric needs to be brought down a peg or two..

Soaps always continue production during strikes so the WGA picketers need to go away and focus on something else.

RHOC

Miss DUI Gina certainly isn't judging someone for a mistake..nah..couldn't be.

Tamra and Shannon face to face should have been held off till at least the 3rd or 4th episode.  Anticipation is what this show needs.

With that said...what Heather and Tamra don't get is both of them attacking Shannon makes the audience side with Shannon as the lesser of two evils.

Who knew Shannon of all people 'threw Tamra under the bus'...and Tamra is so bothered by her...moreso then she was by Gretchen.  #priceless

Pointless character... and a noose around Erica Kane's neck.

Hopefully his character is single and can finally shed his co dependence on Erica.

I think Althea proved Hubbard could act and play a character unlike herself... while I viewed Lucinda as an extension of Hubbard.. especially as time went on.

Emma started off cold and harsh when she debuted on ATWT, and for some reason, Marland and co decided to soften her and make her warm and flighty person.  I think it kind of undercut any potential the character could have had long term after Marland passed away.

Cal/Lucinda had a fling after he/Emma broke up.  I think he was starting to date Lyla, who wasn't ready for a long term relationship right after Casey's death so he and Lucinda had a fling.  Then I think he decided he really liked Lyla and broke up with Lucinda.

11 hours ago, Chris B said:

Zach and Jack aren't the biggest highlights for me, but I appreciate them for the fact that it's nice seeing Felicia in a relationship with spark and I loooooove Sly. And then it's nice to see Stephanie dating someone instead of just begging Eric to take her back.

One thing I'm not looking forward to are all of the exits. I felt like Margo and Jake's story had ended and I suspect Sheila got a lot of story that could've gone to Margo. I'm really going to miss Felicia, Kristen and Clarke when they leave. It's hard to imagine why they were written out.

I like that Zach/Jack gave some more development/dimension to Taylor then just the resident shrink or Brooke's rival for Ridge.   Seeing her with both her father/brother gave Taylor other characters to interact with.  It gave her equal development to Brooke in terms of having family to be around.

I do recall Zach/Felicia's relationship brings out Stephanie's disapproval and controlling ways... but I recall it will be presented differently then it was with Brooke/Ridge.

Lily was always Craig's biggest advocate with Lucinda/Sierra just as much as Sierra was the mediator between Lily/Lucinda.  So to have Craig treat Lily the way that he did just contradicted the history between Craig/Lily.  It was acceptable that he/Rose didn't jive because of the lack of history.. but Lily/Craig were always good friends.

I do remember Grant Coleman being the red herring for causing the gaslighting of Lisa after Earl's vanished.. but I remember my mom saying that there was no way Grant would ever do anything that vile to Lisa.   She had said that Grant was Lisa's true love.. and that the break up of their marriage due to Joyce was the thing that caused Lisa to become the anti heroine in the 80s and thereafter.

3 hours ago, NothinButAttitude said:

I will never understand why the show didn't simply toss Marcy into an established character role, as it would've possibly made her stint longer.

Does anyone think she would've been good as a Morgan (Richards) recast?  I mean it would've still connected her to Josh (Robert Newman) as didn't Morgan/Josh have a fling before she was written off?

Based on how Tangie ended up going into the Holly/Roger/Blake orbit... instead of Tangie being his ward/foster child... I think maybe Marcy could have been Blake's cousin Emily.... she could have still had that tension with Roger... and been conflicted over the Holly/Fletcher hook up and keeping it quiet.

20 hours ago, Cat said:

I mean, the rolling see-through staircases on RHOA are still tripping me out. 

The whoosh! And Vicki with her hand on her hip, her head dipping to the side, and Donn, Michael and Brianna behind her! See, it's sh!t like this that I get attached to and don't like to see replaced. For a show like OC, especially, which is so unabashedly OC and not trying to be something else, it is worth keeping a few of the old quirks. 

Lol, not me, just a very clever RH fan on Twitter. You know Dorinda's face is doing that right now.

I like that the families are still in the opening.  This and NJ were always more of a focus on family.  

In fact, RHOC was a concept that combined Desperate Housewives with the OC....so the teens always had a focus.  

Plus we have seen Heather and Shannon's kids grow up on the show...I like that we sometimes hear from them about their moms.

Last night we met the newbie Jennifer...and she is exactly an OC prototype.  Messy older kids, hectic life...and lips that are..wow.  only thing missing is the sky top lol

Newman was lured back in 1993.. and the plan had been originally to do a Harley/Mallet/Josh triangle.. but I'm guessing between the time the show was trying to pure Newman back and him agreeing.. both Beth E and Mark D opted to quit the show.

I remember Josh first coming back with him coming to Harley and she basically letting him have it for basically dumping her and then expecting to come back like nothing happened.  Plus Mallet/Josh butted heads because of Julie/Dylan's busted wedding.  

However, the back up plan for Josh (Tangie) didn't work.

From what I read the actor opted to quit so he just vanished without explanation.

You could almost see that Chase/Nina seemed to be end game during the whole David Kimball story... though I could have seen young Victoria having a crush on Chase thus Chase/Nina/Victoria could have been a thing

37 minutes ago, Bright Eyes said:

Today reminded me that Leo's worst crime is how Diana's character was thrown under the bus for him. That would be the first thing I would fix before sending him away from Salem forever. It sickens me that he's her son and whatever the hell that notDiana return was. 

Diana wasn't thrown under the bus for Leo... because Diana was never given an actual character other then what Genie Francis infused into the character.. which changed quite a bit.

Genie Francis spoke about how it was frustrating to play Diana because the show never gave her an actual character to play.  In fact, she said Diana was a bit part that they expanded once Days secured her.   And she did leave mysteriously by slicking her hair back, putting on a wig and leaving in the night.  So maybe what we saw was the real Diana

3 hours ago, DaytimeFan said:

The problem is I don't think many of the women have much going on. The show is their job, their friends don't want to be filmed, and most of them already feature what family they do have.

Cigs & Wigs is a draw only because her life is imploding right now and it's ugly. It's not #Scandoval, but people would tune in for it. If Bravo doesn't have a camera crew following Kim around they've made a big mistake. 

Only if Wigs moves her brood into a townhouse again like in the good old days.

18 hours ago, Antoyne said:

This cast truly lacks chemistry and it’s hurting the show. It feels like they barely tolerate each other. 

This is basically the same cast as season 14 and everyone I knew said that the cast just didn't gel.

So when I heard there was no shake up at all, I knew this show was in trouble.  I don't think Nene/Kim Z is the answer to fixing the show because neither one of them are the same people that they were in the first seasons of the show.

I'm going to be honest and say that they shouldn't be filming together.. and that instead maybe show us their lives with their jobs, friends and family.   

And hell no to Kim Fields ever coming back.  That is one toxic condescending woman... and I don't think she bested Kenya at the reunion.  It was a draw..imho.

Now that I'm thinking about it, anytime someone semi famous does one of these housewife shows.. I end up not liking them anymore (Rinna, Kim Fields, Heather Dubrow, Eileen, and Garcelle/Denise Richards is on my side eye list).   Maybe actors/actresses shouldn't do these shows if they hope to have a long lasting acting career LOL 

I remember reading back in early 1994 that the reason Jagger/Karen left suddenly together was due to a few things.  Sabato Jr only signed a 2 year contract while Cari S had signed a 3 year control... so when he opted not to renew his contract, the show was trying to decide how to proceed.  They had considered having the two break up with Jagger leaving and Karen staying.. but Cari S had hinted she probably wouldn't renew her contract in a year so the show opted to write them out together rather then try to introduce a new love interest for Karen (which shows how much the show probably realized that Karen wasn't as important to the show as a character).

Brenda probably benefited from both Jagger/Karen leaving and was given more attention/focus since she would be staying on so she had to become more then just a chip on her should vixen.. she needed to have more layers to her.  And I think the show could move on from the Sonny angle easier since Karen was off the canvas.  Had she not had chemistry with Sonny.. I truly think both characters wouldn't have stayed on long term.

I always think of Julia/Brenda on GH in the same vein as Casey/Nikki on Y & R.  Career driven/over responsible individuals with issues/trauma from their parent.. that shielded their younger wild child younger sibling from the parent... and both of them trying to help their younger sibling from being self-destructive... and both of those said younger siblings end up becoming iconic characters on both of their soaps while their older sibling ended up leaving after a few years.

Marland did say that GL was the easiest soap for him to take over...that the Dobson's left it in such great shape.  And a lot of his first year on GL was finishing out some of what the Dobson's had written.

I did read a rumor once that in 1985, he was given a choice of GL and ATWT...and he picked ATWT.  Not sure if true..and what his reasonings were for choosing ATWT at that point...other then ATWT had somewhat been fixed by Horgan Bledsoe while GL was knee deep into the Infinity story (which maybe Marland didn't want to touch with a 10 foot pole lol)

What I never understood was why the show didn't just write off Josh/Reva as leaving town instead of having Reva drive off the bridge... especially since he ended up leaving within 6 months after she did.

That way, the show wouldn't of had to do all the stupid things they did later in the mid 90s

11 minutes ago, kalbir said:

Late 1970s was ABC huge rise and P&G shows tanked. Did viewers suddenly switch over from P&G to ABC, or did ABC get a whole bunch of new viewers?

Y&R was going strong in the late 1970s but would stumble in 1980 after expanding to one hour and changing time slots.

My guess is that ABC ended up getting younger viewers (high school and college aged) that didn't want to watch soaps that their parents watched (which were P & G).

Nick and Sharon.... yuck

B & B... so basically lather, rinse, and repeat

15 hours ago, Khan said:

That's interesting, @Paul Raven.  Immediately, when I read your post, I thought, "Well, maybe Douglas Marland didn't receive on-air credit, because he was technically still employed at GH," kind of like how Frank Salisbury admitted to writing for GL some time before actually being credited on-screen because he was still writing scripts for GH, too.  But I don't know exactly when Marland quit GH, so that theory might not be plausible.

(Also, hasn't Bridget Dobson said in the past that P&G had them switch shows, because they found Marland's bible for ATWT unsatisfactory?  Of course, I'm presuming Bridget is correct and not misremembering.)

I agree with you, @Paul Raven.  I think when Marland became available after leaving GH, P&G snapped him up, rather than lose out to another, non-P&G-produced show.  P&G's plan was for him to replace the Dobsons at GL, and for the Dobsons to replace Ellis & Hunt at ATWT.  However, for contractual or other reasons, the Dobsons were unable to leave GL before the start of the new year.  (Perhaps, they needed time to wrap up their stories before leaving; or perhaps, they needed time to watch and create a bible for ATWT before officially taking over).  So, P&G gave Marland the ATWT gig with the understanding that it was only temporary and that he would be moved over to GL when the Dobsons were contractually able to move over to ATWT.  Thus explains why Marland didn't make any major changes at ATWT during the 13 weeks he was there.

Like you said, @Paul Raven, it's a mystery, lol.

I'd love to know, though, if any fans here remember what the Willows mystery was like when Ellis & Hunt were still the HW's.  I think it was Christopher Schemering who described it as being "limp" before Marland took over the story.

I think the issue was that Douglas Marland was too locked into his job at ATWT being a temporary one until Bridget and Jerome Dobson were ready to take over (as I've said above).  Under those circumstances, he probably couldn't shake up the show TOO much, in case it interfered with the Dobsons' plans.  So, he kind of had to continue on with what Ralph Ellis & Eugenie Hunt had left behind, and maybe tighten up the stories in the meantime.

But you are right, @Soaplovers: compared to what soaps give us today, late '79 ATWT is a joy of watch, but in the context of the times, the Willows storyline, in particular, never quite gets off the ground.  ETA: Maybe it's because I'm watching those scenes decades after the fact, but it seems silly to me that the show invested so much airtime in someone (Doug Higgins/Bennett Hadley) who clearly has no long-term potential, either as Lisa's romantic interest, or as anything else.

I view The Willows to be a rough draft for Nola/Quint at Thornbury Hill.

If you think about it...you had the 'anti-heroine' needing a break from conflicts in their lives, they stumble into a gothic location, and become friendly with a mysterious man that we aren't sure is a good or bad soul.

Had Marland stayed on beyond those 13 weeks..he might have done more with the Willow story.. or he maybe used it as a stop gap for Grant/Lisa until he could get Joyce back onto the show.

2 hours ago, Cat said:

A Rinna-free RHOBH is a ways away (November), but I am willing it to do well. I know Housewives Twitter will be decrying BH as 'boring' without her mean-spiritedness and dirty tricks, but I'm hoping for some light-heartedness and contentious Annemarie giving drama.

 

I think Marge & Jennifer have a bit more shelf-life than Melissa & Teresa. Melissa is a low-achiever who lucked out with +12 years on this show, thanks to her husband. 

I think Teresa would be far happier with a Bravo spin-off. I actually love watching Teresa and her family. If they ever wanted to reboot RHONJ with the kids -- Gia, Gabriella, Milania, Audriana, plus Antonia/Joey/Gio, plus Frankie, I'd be for it.

I'd keep Dolores because she knows everybody, past and present. Not that Dina would ever rejoin the show, but my God, what a rivalry that would be.

Agree to disagree about Aydin and Margaret having more shelf life.  Aydin is just unwatchable to me...If I had money I'd pay for Bill's divorce lawyer so he doesn't have to be married to her.