titan1978

I am all for Tracy having an actual adult love story with someone else but Luke. Tony constantly saying what Luke would and would not do annoys me because it’s clearly about what Tony wants, not the character. And his sabotaging made it so we never got to see Laura process the end of the relationship and kept GF off the show when there was a glaring hole on the canvas for her. I think there was an organic story to be told of Luke and Laura falling out of sync permanently because she no longer needs him to save her, and he is no longer interested in being a better version of himself. It’s what they wanted, we just didn’t get to see her side play out over time like his did. So it came across like Laura was this albatross on the show. Playing off @VeeI would love for Laura to find Luke alive, but in a catatonic state in some Cassadine stronghold while looking for Nikolas. Except she realizes immediately that he is faking it, and breaks him out. And he is angry she foils his plot by getting involved. They have some classic L&L sparks when arguing, have a small adventure, some passion, and then once back in PC they go about healing their broken family. Returns for Lucky and Lulu. But they also decide that as much as they loved each other, and still do, it’s just not right for them anymore for the people they are today. We then learn Luke isn’t well. All those years of smoking and drinking have done a number on him, and at the end of a 6-8 month return he dies. But instead of everyone being broken by it, it’s truly a celebration of their life, and it leads to renewal for Laura, Lucky, and Lulu. I wouldn’t mind some of that improbable magic that used to happen with super couples either- Maybe the whole thing starts with Laura finding Luke’s wedding ring in an antique store. The one he threw off the docks, somehow returned to them. Some romance and magic is missing on these shows right now!

I have mixed feelings about Luke & Laura after the rape revisit. I think they kept them apart too long, and JFP’s reunion felt forced based on what we had endured with them. Although some of that had to do with JJ leaving the show, and what Lucky’s death did to them. However, I totally bought the story and their connection when Laura woke up from her catatonic state for the wedding anniversary. Bittersweet, but a lovely story. I get Tony’s issues a little. Since their return, every time Genie was gone, they kind of put Luke in a holding pattern. He was always in the mix, just not really in a story of any significance. Genie basically refused to return after her second child was born, in part due to her unhappiness with the writing on the show. Later she quit when JFP wouldn’t work with the schedule she wanted that summer, and Luke was stuck acting with a fake Laura and stories about her until they paired him with Jane. What we missed out on was watching Laura deal with all her traumas, heal, and be there for her family while starting a new life. I think it was possible to have her there and still play Tracy/Luke. But ultimately, I think the endgame should be them together.

From everything I have seen, Viki had her place and was important, but not the central figure she becomes during the Rauch years and beyond. In the late 70’s, early 80’s, characters like Karen and Jenny seemed more vitally important based on the material they burned through. Dorian also had more going on. The show’s dramatic refocus with Tina discovering Victor was her father and what it did to Viki was the start of her dominating the show in a way she had not before.

Well for me what you post is ultimately why I got sick of them. The only actual endgame that happened with any consequence was the slow dissolution of Luke & Laura’s marriage. The immediate goals of establishing the Cassadines on the then current show (including the tone they wanted) was a success. Within a few years we had an impeccably stylish Helena just threatening everyone without any major movement. Stefan was saddled with Katherine, who was killed twice, and a relationship with Laura nobody thought was going to last. Everything after that was just a slow slog to the end of the character. We never got to see where the hospital takeover was going, or Stefan and Bobbie’s marriage. I know real world issues happened that they had to work around in 1996- John Beradino’s death, Bob Guza leaving due to his Sunset Beach contract, Genie Francis’ second pregnancy- all played a part in the way the Cassadine story was told. I don’t even remember whatever the stupid faberge egg had in it, or the online game Stefan was playing with Lucky was all supposed to be about. We even got Lesley back, but Culliton clearly had no interest in telling that story. And 1997 became the year Riche got distracted by the launch of Port Charles.

He seems to also be talking about the decline of daytime in that clip, not just internal politics. The way daytime had degraded at that point (and has only gotten worse since).

A few things I can clarify from interviews/social media posts by the writers I have read over the years- Michele Val Jean has said that Carly was entirely Guza’s creation, and that Labine was happy to help them with the transition and let them implement pieces to help with the transition, as the other writers were mostly staying. By all accounts Jason’s accident was also a joint effort, although the idea was generated by Labine and team deciding they needed to do something with Steve Burton, he wasn’t being utilized enough. Guza and his team had a bible, it went through a period of time after he left for Sunset Beach, some say 4 months, some say 6. Miranda was in it. The specifics of Clink/Boom were all Guza and his team, as was how important Jax becomes to Brenda. Culliton used the outlines, and when they ran out it was very noticeable. Tracy being part of the Q takeover storyline was dictated by ABC to reintroduce her character before she was on The City as the lead, replacing Morgan Fairchild. It fell in line with Lois leaving Ned perfectly too. As a viewer, it was clear that the show wasn’t as tight by the fall of 96, and really falls off the rails shortly after Laura’s fake death is exposed. The show’s writing was very collaborative at that point. Nikolas came about because Genie Francis wanted to play a secret, and had spoken about those missing years being a good source for story, including having had a child. She also had been pushing for how important Lesley was to Laura. Lulu’s illness was one of the ideas generated as a possible reintroduction storyline when Luke & Laura returned to the show, and it was deemed not big enough. The entire Miranda backstory was grafted on to Alexis, and the delivery was wild. One conversation with Luke, and he laid out her entire past as a child of Mikkos. And Helena having killed her mother. That was a strange time to watch the show- Guza wasn’t credited yet, but onscreen everything got more Guza like right away. It was pretty clear to me that he had been tweaking things before he was credited. His “relaunch” week sets up all his stories for his return in ‘97, starting with Nikolas being shot at Luke’s and Carly telling Tony Jason was her baby’s father. Speaking of which, AJ being Michael’s father was not planned by Guza, but it was one of the few things he loved that Culliton did. It was a wonderful time on the show. As much as I loved Labine’s very grounded stories, the show had run out of steam after Stone died. It was like Guza and Riche found a perfect balance between the grounded Labine era while infusing some of the action and intrigue of the Monty era. Sonny/Brenda/Jax was a fantastic triangle, and Clink/Boom was an iconic moment on soaps. I was also watching some stuff from this period recently, and I couldn’t help but notice how stuff like the Cassadines could have flopped easily, but didn’t. The audience remembers them and the silly Ice Princess weather machine. But because of the mood the writers and producers used for them, they are more mysterious than silly, all the fog, dark clothes, grandness without spectacle. And the way Tony and Genie play the scenes makes them seem dangerous and scary. Laura is terrified and her past trauma makes that story work (excellent casting for Stefan and Nikolas helped too)!

From everything I have seen, Ellen Holly was a wonderful actor. As others have said, SON and YOUTUBE really allowed me to see Carla on OLTL in action, and Holly was so compelling! And that’s without seeing her original, groundbreaking story. Her place in the history of this industry should never be forgotten. She was a pioneer and had the talent to back that up. Sad that this part of the industry treated her with so much disrespect.

I like her there too, and it does fit. What I need is someone for her to play off. She needs a sparring partner at the paper, an equal. Nancy excels with snappy repartee and I miss that aspect of her time as a lawyer.

He clearly loved writing for her. No wonder when she let it be known she would not renew her contract he reset the entire show and decided to reform the show around the expanded Abbott family.

I would also argue that she did loose Gary as well, and she seemed genuinely in love with him up to a point. By season 7 the writers were done with them, and Abby was too.

I think the right decision was made in regards to Sean and Tiffany at the time, to rest the characters. I could have easily seen a place for Tiffany down the road as a supporting player, possibly involved in media stories with a younger set of characters. I think she would have fit in quite well with Jax, Kate, Lulu and Maxie at Crimson. Her becoming a PR person feels natural to me. And I enjoyed Sean, but him being revealed as the big bad with the virus makes way more sense than Holly. His whole foundation was based in going outside the lines when it was necessary or suited him. Sure he was a good guy by the time he left, but I think the swing is much easier to believe with him. Labine spoke about inheriting a show that was filled with characters that were left over from the last three regimes, not really families per se, and her focus on the hospital was to both ground the show and also give a central hub for a foundation. The hospital and Luke & Laura were the spokes that touched everything.

Those three seasons are Knots in my mind. From Ciji to the twins. I loved the whole show, but that’s the core to me, the greatest era.

As a kid watching back then I thought they played that there was some emotion still between them. From the wedding flashbacks to establish their history when she first arrived to how Duke was at times angry and jealous of Robert’s place in their lives. It was part of the story when Grant Putnam kidnapped her. The audience did favor Robert/Holly and Anna/Duke though. I liked them together and I loved their wedding at Lila Quartermaine’s garden, with all the large hats. Anna was my favorite character. When she was gone I was almost gone too. But habit and then my teen gay hormones kicking in when Jagger arrived kept me watching. I was at the perfect age for Jagger/Karen/Brenda/Jason/Robin/Stone. Riche really lucked out while rebuilding things with that teen squad and the Ryan/Felicia story both capturing the audience that was left. I was way more glued to those stories than I had been during Monty’s return year.

Like Rose on ATWT, this is such a great example. The road to get there was rocky, but the climax was fantastic. And the follow up with Diane feeling betrayed.

He has been very open in interviews, especially in the last few years, that Monty was not on top of her game in her second run. That she was behaving unreasonably, and both he and Finola have spoken about how she was treated on her last day by Monty. That her exacting standards were not working this time around. He even alluded to thinking that she was having some kind of mental issues brought on by the loss of her husband, and her heart wasn’t in it anymore. He very well may have intended to leave with or without Monty- but he was not happy with Gloria when he ultimately did. And Riche did try to keep him and Finola, so she had some idea that he might stay without Monty.

I think the nature of Luke and Laura as characters having their original foundations built on more realistic ground by Marland and PFS made them fit in to the tone Riche and Labine were going for pretty seamlessly. At that point, I thought Robert actually needed a rest, and I cannot imagine Tristan in 1993 fitting in with what they were doing. When he came back for the hospital virus storyline I was happy to see him, and I had been sick of him back when he left. But then again, as Nighshift season two showed, Tristan was more than capable of grounded stories and a vulnerable Robert. Finola I can easily see working on the show at almost any point.

This whole baby plot should have been dropped or postponed due to the casting merry-go-round. It is unfortunate what the last few years have done to Alexis. One of the things Guza and his team did that I liked was the Davis girls and their relationships. I also have to agree about Sonny- if he has to be here and always in story, don’t make him an idiot for a plot to work. Historically he has so many issues that it would be more believable to give him things that distract him, not blatant stupidity.

Reading the recaps @depboyhas graciously been providing us, it seems to me that Diana Tayor kind of nudged Jessie off the frontburner, and took her place as Phil’s main focus. I know when he is killed Jessie is a big part of that story. Denise said in an interview that they had a female doctor coming on that was meant for Steve Hardy. Just the bare bones of the character, and once she was on set and in scenes they determined the Steve thing wasn’t going to work. Then they built a backstory for her. I think her essentially firing Finola Hughes and Tristan Roger’s quitting and basically telling ABC it was because of Monty that did her in. That was her two biggest stars on the show at that time. More than one cast member complained up the ladder that she was not on top of her game. Her husband had either passed away just before she arrived or soon into her run. She was inflexible and her instincts were just pissing everyone off that worked on the show.

The numbers were strong but the show was not in a good place. I get them looking for a change. IMO back then I know I felt it was better during Wes Kinney’s run as EP compared to Hardy, especially his last year or so. I also get them thinking it needed something like a drastic reset. We were not that far from Casey the alien, fake Duke dying again, etc. Monty should have followed what worked at the start of her first run- strong writing, refocus the characters already there, and slowly move some out while implementing her new vision. The first time around she eventually got rid of even fan favorites without the show losing ground (Diana, Peter, Jeff, etc), brought in whole new families and people ate it up.

That interview actually makes me sad for today’s soaps. An idea generated from outside the writing team, and the HW knows nothing about any of the players involved from that time period to draw on organically. I am enjoying the story, just makes me sad about the state of things.

To me it equates to when the shows stoped writing the women as complexly, and turned all the depth and attention to the men, and only the ones that were edgy. Victoria is a perfect example of when things went wrong- Heather Tom was fighting against her character becoming primarily a romantic lead. And that is what I think of Victoria now- primarily a character driven by her relationships with men. Yeah, it is so strange to me. But look at the last 20 years- these business/non creative folks running studios now hardly make any content directed towards women anymore. I think the last decade it has gotten especially bad. Barbie should be a huge signal to them but it won’t be, because until more women are in the decision making positions at every studio, it’s an uphill battle.

Something very important and not mentioned yet is that Bill Bell understood the daytime audience. He wrote these shows mostly from the women’s perspective. He didn’t forget his audience was mostly made up of women. When I was an avid watcher of Y&R, all these women (and probably more) were on the show at virtually the same time. Katherine, Jill, Nina, Ashley, Nikki, Leanna, Sheila, Lauren, Tracy, Drucilla, Olivia, Cassandra, Cricket…I’m sure I am missing someone. Closely followed by Victoria and Sharon. These are all complex, individual women with their own points of view, their own vulnerabilities, established backgrounds, motivations and storylines. Some of them never crossed paths. And plenty of sex appeal- Malcolm, Ryan, Paul, Brad, etc. The men were complex too- but the women outnumbered them and were often the best parts. On DAYS he had Laura, Julie, Marie, Susan, etc. All complex and vital characters, and always front and center.

And it never hit those numbers again, never a 7 or higher again IIRC. Her intentions were correct- more grounded characters, more modern concerns, better representation of economic differences. Her instincts and writing team didn’t help execute that vision. Unfortunately she tried to shove too much new down viewers’ throats, and the Eckerts were not well positioned at all. The Quartermaines became support players, and the new cast members were not very popular. I know I only liked Mac and Julia in that whole bunch of characters. Nobody wanted Tony Geary on GH as anybody but Luke. Within her first year, Wendy Riche added her own sensibilities which leaned more naturally into a grounded show, and by the time Luke & Laura returned and the Labine’s material started, it was a really strong show again. What I wonder is if Riche had arrived earlier instead of Monty round 2, what would that have been like? Did GH have to crater in the ratings for the audience that would accept the more grounded vision? Or could she have hung on to those higher numbers? Would the audience in 1991 accept that GH?

Kay Alden reinvigorated the show. It had largely been coasting for a couple of years. So much focus on the Newman family. Sharon and Nick were practically on every day, and to me they were bland AF back then. Bell’s last year started the ball rolling. But her first year laid the kind of groundwork that should have fueled the show for years. Jill/Katherine back at it. Glo by Jabot. Mac/Billy, the resurgence of the Abbott family. Rumor has it she and Ed Scott were wrestling for control of the show, which didn’t help.

It was the filming style too- the kind of detached quality was accentuated by the staging. The ubiquitous foreground character and the person in the background shots, the specific way characters talked to themselves sometimes, the story isolation, the music. I think Marland’s work, especially on ATWT had that detached air as well. But it was very much a kitchen sink type of drama. Of the three of them, I think Agnes Nixon’s work was the most modern, even going all the way back to OLTL. She had her finger on the pulse and deeply understood the traditions of the medium. Which really was present in the early 90’s- Victor, Nikki, and Victoria were often awful to other characters. Nick had the Newman arrogance, but not tinged with as much classism as Victoria. It didn’t make them any less compelling or make me want them to not be there. Look at Lauren- she’s a monster to Traci, and all the way through Sheila has an edge. Plus my favorite Katherine is the one cutting up photos of Jill and Jack in bed together, and then trying to drive a wedge between Jill and Phillip II. Complex without going too far.