titan1978

This was always the problem. We have seen Joss mourn two partners, and have relationships with two more men. When Dex died they gave her an entire new story about the WSB and we barely saw Trina grieve. Then they give her the C story with Kai, who is now recurring. Her mother has had more to do. It’s very noticeable, and has been for years.

So boring and forgetful nobody can seem to get his name right. I see him called Dax all over the internet, instead of Dex.

I don’t think they were boxed in either. They were perfectly willing to push Esme and continue trying to tie her to Spencer before they decided to kill the whole story. Chavez was inconvenient for Valentini/the factory production because of his outs. And the racism was apparent too, even if they don’t realize they were doing it. Chavez was popular right away with both Trina’s, and they sidelined his character several times like they did Gio after the paternity reveal, where his story would disappear for weeks. And I assumed at the time it was budget to hold time for using him a lot later in the year.

I get where you are coming from @DRW50 but my argument would pretty much live and die on these shows are a business, and already have a toxic online fandom, and if I was the network I wouldn’t care if dealing with that is a hassle to the producers of a show that the network owns. I would want the viewers. I do know there are real world implications for the talent that does deserve consideration and they should feel safe at work and IRL in relation to that work. But the show and genre is leaving money on the table that was their bread and butter, when shows like Bridgerton and Heated Rivalry show that diversity isn’t even the hindrance because there is a large audience hungry for romance and sexuality. Without spoiling anything, there is a scene in Heated Rivalry that hinges on a kiss, and the cameras swooping around several characters that the kiss is important for. It’s 100% filmed in that epic romance way that shows about gay men’s sexuality are not represented often, and that’s part of why it has a huge crossover audience. As a gay man, I totally get our sexuality being used as the lure in media that caters to straight women can be problematic. But I can also take a step back and see that sometimes the conceits of the genre do some dictating here. And as a lifetime lover of soaps, in six episodes they captured something soaps build towards for longer because they have the luxury of time. I feel the same way about the dwindling audiences for Marvel and DC comics over the last couple of decades. They are embarrassed by the conceits of a genre that is supposed to be catered towards juvenile readership (I am speaking about superhero comics by the largest publishers here, not comics as an art form) so they have made them almost totally for their older audience first, and lost the cyclical nature of their mostly turnover readership as it existed for decades.

I don’t disagree, but I do think the propping that later becomes malignant starts during the Stone storyline.

I just don’t see her being able to work with the character of Sonny in a way Riche or ABC would have wanted. The reason Maurice was allowed to dominate is because the audience was there for it, even if I was not. I do see her being able to handle Todd though. Her Guiding Light was complex but even with Roger and Blake as main characters the anti-hero wasn’t the rooting character. They had to lose a lot, and grow in a way folks like Carly, Jason, Sonny and Luke didn’t. Maybe I’m selling her short.

That was some classic soap opera making out if I have ever seen it! And fully clothed this was more worthy of investment than any roll in the sheets I have seen with Joss ever. Give them something dangerous to be involved in and we have old school GH ready to go!

And again, I ask today’s soap operas- is nobody at the helms watching pop culture? Heated Rivalry is pure romance and the beloved advertising block is eating it up, and the books. They have a chance to service that kind of audience five days a week in various ways, and all but run from it. Make it make sense please.

I haven’t seen the episode yet but I did see their posts and would also not be surprised. And agreed. It’s the same kind of heat the show didn’t capitalize on with Trina/Spencer. That run and jump into his arms is still memorable.

Truthfully, even though she goes way back with soaps, I can’t imagine her on another show successfully after that first GH tenure. Maybe if Edge of Night had survived? I can’t see her on any of the CBS soaps. Maybe if she and Al Rabin swapped roles between GH and DAYS? I remember the rumors of Wendy Riche landing at ATWT or Y&R, and I could see her working out very well on ATWT or GL, not Y&R though. Now maybe, since it’s been stripped bare of glamour and is just another show, but not back then. I remember the Curlee and Alden ABC rumors too, and I don’t think either of them would work at GH either. But it would have been interesting. Now Curlee at OLTL? Stellar. Alden at AMC? I can see it.

Maybe the infamous sound of her heels clicking on the stage floor as it fades to black. A sound that terrified many GH performers/crew over the years.

I never watched Santa Barbara, but I have read plenty about it. Could anything have saved it? That show was truly a BTS minefield. And Monty notoriously does what she wants to when it comes to writing, which would seem to not suit that show at all.

When I was a kid and again a few years ago on rewatch I thought Wes Kenney’s tenure was much better than Hardy’s. Although Hardy was in charge when some of the sets were upgraded, including the Q mansion which was a beautiful set compared to the original (which was a good set too, just not as grand or rich looking).

I was pretty young but I was into GH and Anna was my favorite character until I was a young teen and we got to Karen/Jagger/Brenda/Jason/Robin/Stone times. What I remember the most about that Duke story was being upset that they essentially killed him again and broke Anna’s heart all over again and it felt like it was all for no reason and cruel and felt forced. As basically a kid it was probably the first time I was consciously aware of backstage issues destabilizing the onscreen product. I know there have been rumors that the actor was difficult to work with, and also that the fan response was not what they wanted. But by the time the reunion/death happened I do recall people were more upset with him being killed off, and it showing up in soap mags. So at some point there was an audience that wanted to at least see them together as Duke/Anna and try it out. I remember thinking Greg Beecroft was attractive and very intense, and would have preferred he not really be Duke and maybe see what they could have made of that. He just didn’t seem like Duke at all, even though Ian played him as very intense as well. But his Duke had charm and sex appeal, and Beecroft’s Duke was kind of remote. He would have made a fantastic Cassadine. Honestly I also remember thinking GB’s Duke and Julian Jerome should just kiss and get it over with. I haven’t watched that story since I was a kid, I wonder if it would trigger my more advanced gaydar of today?

I can see her as part of the renewed focus music that happened during Riche’s first few years though. I could see her as a partner in The Outback and playing music there. Or exploring another aspect of her talents and she plays in Mary Mae Ward’s recording sessions, etc. but I also don’t see her as a major player. I did not really like her to be honest when this was airing. I had preferred the angst of Robert/Cheryl and original recipe Julian Jerome, and by the time Katherine and fake Duke were there I was ready for Robert/Anna. That Duke story is another one of the strange things that happened in those couple of years between Monty tenures that hurt the show. All that time and effort setting it up and selling it only to have him die again just as he and Anna were reuniting. I know it wasn’t very popular, but I have also read people started to get into it and were pissed when they killed him off. At the time I remember not liking it but also not being happy with how it wound up. Then on the heels of that debacle comes Casey the Alien. Finola almost had Deidre Hall levels of difficulty selling some wild stories back to back.

I thought so. As a huge Anna fan it was a big ask to keep her on the show after everything that had happened, especially trying to walk her back from fully psycho. I actually liked Colton but there really wasn’t much there after Frisco returns. He’s essentially a decent guy that doesn’t have the right kind of ties to build on in that era. He’s not part of the WSB/PCPD group, he’s not tied to the Quartermaines, and he’s not a doctor or in the medical profession for the hospital stories, or romantically involved with a core character. At that time on GH you really needed at least one of those ties to succeed. It’s not like Young and the Restless where stories rarely overlapped. GH stories really did a lot of crossover. I adored Charlene and was sad when she left. Without those characters I don’t know if Lucy lasts as long as she did. It allowed more exploration of Lucy beyond just her schemes. Lucy seems to be an acquired taste but I have always loved Lynn and am happy for every second of screen time she has. I hate that GH never capitalized on Serena, especially since Carly was great and they had an opportunity to continue to grow her up in real time like Robin.

When Bill died Sly ended up with Paul and Jenny, who limped along for a bit then lived offscreen in PC. Sly was still seen a lot as Lucky’s best friend for a couple of years, and I truly don’t remember much of any appearances after Labine leaves, he was already being phased out before the Webber sisters arrived. Catching up on the last few pages- as we have discussed many times Monty had the right idea about the tone of the show needing to be more grounded, she just botched her way into doing it. Both the show and Bill Eckert might have been more successful had she brought in a writing team that was capable of that transition instead of just trying to force it to happen. Riche’s vision is pretty rocky even if she did accomplish grounding the show until Claire Labine became available. Tony Geary as anybody but Luke was never going to fly on GH. He was too iconic. And both of them have spoken about how difficult it was to return in 1993. Both Genie and Tony have said they knew that return would basically cement them never having other parts again. What Genie did was build a life and family away from the show. And Tony by his own admission struggled with that until he found Amsterdam, which is when his time off requests became the focus of his contract negotiations. If you are a creative person, soaps even back then are a grind.

Most soaps were stacked like this back then. The difference was they were telling full stories, and you had people there that helped flush stuff out as true supporting over the years. GH did have tendency to revolve around a handful of characters though during that time, especially once Anna became a lead. For example on Y&R Paul had a secretary named Lynn, you had John Silva, and Esther. GH had Amy always there at the hospital, and Lila was a significant character but never a lead like Monica, Alan, or Edward were. Same with Gail Baldwin, and characters like Amanda Barrington. When I first got into AMC in the early 1990’s that show was full of people like this. A major difference with today was those recurring folks were rarely the leads in stories. GH does that all the time now, and has for years. They have contract players that hardly lead stories at all.

Thanks for the episode @Vee I agree it was a natural progression for Sean and Tiffany to exit when they did. My wish many years ago was that Sean would have been revealed as behind the virus outbreak instead of Holly. It could have been some gray area WSB storyline and him being revealed would have been more complicated for Robin, Robert and Anna than Holly was as just an opportunist. Holly only really impacts Robert and Luke. If Sharon had been able to return I would have her running a media empire, easily more believable for her to be the head of Aurora than Michael or Curtis. Especially over Crimson BITD to be a mentor to Kate, Lulu and Maxie, and a thorn in the side of Nina. Tiffany in scenes with Todd Manning when The Sun came to Port Charla would have been a lot of fun.

Labine broke your heart but there was always an undercurrent of hope, community, and love. I don’t know what the hell happened to Bob Guza, but his stories rarely had that kind of heart in them. And he was surrounded by a lot of the same writers as Labine, they just didn’t break through from the cynicism. By the end of his final run things were beyond bleak, and JFP likes that too, so there was no reprieve. That’s how I remember it. There was some corporate speak by Riche that they had no story for them and no plans for one, and they were too important to just languish, or some nonsense like that. But it was budget. They were expensive players in the beginning days of declining revenue being the norm from then on.

There was something sweet about the proposal and them falling in love as friends and fully adults. But I also found them boring as a couple back then. Truthfully I never liked Tony until Labine got there. And even then he is often judgmental. But I do think he played an important role for balanced storytelling by being the one calling out ridiculous and irresponsible behavior. I actually enjoyed his slow descent into being broken. My problem then and now was they didn’t build him back up. Even though his life had been very hard, you still want a soap opera to give him some hope and happiness again. I agree. I loved her and missed her when she was gone, but never as a lead. She would have been a great character to build the PC media empire around, with the Quartermaine’s backing her, but even then I would have her as supporting the other characters in the story.

The updated sets in the early 1990’s were more expansive and really looked like a wealthy old money family mansion.

I honesty do not know. Probably not? But he was being called to film while doing some social media thing and was talking with Ingo, said he was shooting with NLG, and kind of rolled his eyes or made a gesture like she was the problem and not Ingo, or like working with her was annoying. It didn’t go over well with people that saw it including his own fans. Nancy also made comments about it before it was resolved with Mo. None of it went over well with Frank because he likes a tight ship with no public leaks about bts stuff. He really dislikes people that speak out about pretty much a lot of things. Tristan Rogers also alluded to being punished by not being used for complaining a few years ago, and he has routinely sent Kin Shriner packing. One of the more savvy things Genie Francis has done was when he fired her she let the public do the work for her, which was sustained long enough that ABC/Frank rehired her with a story. When Kelly Monaco was fired her fans tried to do a similar thing, except they didn’t have the stamina or the numbers to push ABC to change course. Fire Frank and the Genie stuff lasted the entire time she was gone, and the save Sam stuff just lasted a couple of weeks in large enough numbers to be noticed.

It’s funny because he seemed like an asshat to me in stuff I have seen before he turns into a screaming maniac. Like nobody could tell this guy was awful from the jump?

That’s what I read, he pushed her down the stairs. I’m going to try to find the episode.