Jump to content

ALL: Bad Moves by Well Regarded Soap Writers/EPs


Planet Soap

Recommended Posts

  • Members

Ben did turn out to be Asa's son, which JFP clearly thought would cement him forever. Except he had little to no relationship with the Buchanans following the reveal (who he'd spent the bulk of his run actively despising) despite a lot of lip service from Asa and even the visiting Clint Ritchie once Ben was comatose, and he also lasted barely two years with minimal story after the truth came out.

I don't believe Sloan was dying at the time. They knew he was ill but it didn't become terminal til much later, IIRC. The original plan (supposedly, depending on who you ask) may have been to kill Sloan regardless and have Clint win the triangle, if not for Clint Ritchie having a serious accident IRL which kept him offscreen for a considerable period starting in the summer of '93. This supposedly led to Viki and Sloan being extended and becoming more part of the firmament. But that's a lot of he said/she said BTS, and I can't be sure what's true.

I like and have always liked elements of the Sloan saga and Roy Thinnes, and I think restoring Viki's primacy as an individual was important. But I do think Clint would always be the better man and I've always understood why people hated it. I think it would've been more interesting in the long run to see the Gottlieb/Malone regime reckon with restoring Viki and Clint, which for various reasons they never got the chance to do as they allegedly planned.

Edited by Vee
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 277
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

  • Members

I never really felt onscreen that it was a younger man/older woman story. Of course it was, but Derwin seemed older than his age while Erika Slezak aged well and managed to maintain a certain vitality that never moved into the Sally Field Soapdish mode of desperation. That may be another reason I didn't care about the story - there was no believable conflict. I'm not saying I would have wanted her paired up with Jason Webb, although that would have been preferable to many of the choices made with Viki in OLTL's last few decades.

It's always interesting to see opinion now compared to the time. I remember some fans who VOCALLY loathed Clint and the Clint/Viki relationship. They thought he was controlling and abusive and were glad she got to move on. I always liked Clint and Clint/Viki, but then I started OLTL much later than they had - if I'd watched all through the Rauch years or the early '90s when they made Clint a homophobe, I might have had a different view.

The Rappadavidsons and other toys like Tim Gibbs' godawful Kevin were a forerunner to the divisive, cynical approach of soaps in the last few decades, and of JFP as a producer - to try to make them popular she was willing to trash large portions of the canvas. And they were popular only with a subset of fans who only seemed to watch for them (similar to many fans now), which meant when Gary Tomlin booted their asses, many fans didn't seem to care. 

(I will say I never even saw a single fan of Gibbs' Kevin) 

She also tried hard to use Asa as a boo hiss baddie to make viewers warm to them, as had been done in the past with characters like Lee Ann, but for the most part I remember fans siding with him.

IIRC, once Tomlin comes in, Ben does become a more palatable character, but he was also heavily backburnered as it was clear Mark Derwin was leaving.

Edited by DRW50
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

To me, the Viki/Sloan romance was well written and acted and they had chemistry. It's just that the lack of Viki/Clint restoration and the subsequent irrelevance of Clint sucked. 

Bad Moves by Well Liked EP: The destruction of Tony under Wendy Riche, and written by (who? Guza? Labine? +more?). He and AJ were the largest casualties of baby Michael and Sonny/Carly/Jason. 

Another bad move: Planting seeds of the mob takeover. The mob stuff has always existed on GH since the days of Frank Smith. Under Riche (with writers Levinson and Labine +) it felt balanced. The mob stories were more humanist and consequential rather than an action show in the 80s. Wikipedia calls this the "Womanessence" era. But this set the stage for JFP/Guza to completely restructure the show around the mob.  I don't mind GH featuring organized crime, but it should be a part of the show, not the whole thing. 

Edited by Planet Soap
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

One of the aspects of the Sloan character that annoys me is giving him a dead gay son (I wonder if Malone was a Heathers fan) and pouring on the sympathy for him over the way he treated said dead gay son. All this at a time when other than a recurring character who mostly disappeared after the plot ended, there were no gay men on the canvas (something Malone would try to rectify a decade later, but that didn't really end well [not that the end result of the story was in any way Malone's fault as he was gone by then]).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Sure, but that was also a very different time. Almost no soap had anything like that. Having Billy was a huge step in '92-'93.

Yeah, the Ben and Blondie fanbase and the Viki/Clint fans despised each other at the time. I was never a part of that but I remember some real psychos in the mix. Nonetheless, while B&B had a vocal fanbase they were not a supercouple and a lot of the audience just hated all the Rappadavidsons period.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Ben was before my OLTL watching time, so whenever I read about him I instantly think of that comedic article from the SnarkWeighsIn column where he explained why Ben and Viki were chosen, out of all the couples on the show at that time, to have a scene where she orally pleases him. Makes me laugh every time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

It was a completely made up parody, the scene never happened, but the way he wrote it, and me being a teenager at the time, I believed it was the real thing until the article got rambunctious near its end. I've never forgotten it. I miss that column all the time and wonder where that guy is these days.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Please register in order to view this content

This is the scene I was thinking of. Shortly after Viki met Sloan he revealed his terminal illness was motivating him to repair his relationship with Andrew. This revelation came before their affair began. 

Fom skimming through this youtube playlist, It appears that Sloan thought he was in remission for some time and the Viki affair progressed. When his Hodgkin's disease returned, Sloan pushed Viki away, by pretending to be in love with another woman, to spare Viki seeing him deteriorate.

That plan failed, and he wed Viki, apparently despite his terminal illness.

IMO, it made no sense for Viki to leave her husband and invest in a future with a dying man. 

Edited by Planet Soap
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I mean, he wasn't a dead man walking for the duration of his time on the show. People like Sloan have lived with their conditions for years. And as you say, he was in remission for some time. It was not, in '93 or '94 a situation where people were like checking the clock waiting for Sloan to die, at least not IIRC. Had Clint Ritchie stayed healthy and other factors not intervened they might have sped up the timetable on Sloan's demise as was allegedly planned, but we really have no idea.

Edited by Vee
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Please register in order to view this content

What was also interesting is how immediately Malone's team went into the DID story, how early they were hinting at sexual abuse, And how early they hinted Viki killed Victor. The day after Sloan's death Vicky had a dream where The man she was kissing transformed from Sloan into her father, And she had a dream that she was "smothering" Dorian. I know this 1995 story understandably be considered a "bad move" but this is perhaps my favorite Viki story.

Erica Slezak even expressed that the original Victor actor would have turned over it his grave if he knew what the character became. She also said it was unfathomable that the original idea of Victor with sexually abuse his daughter.

Edited by Planet Soap
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.



  • Recent Posts

    • How did I never notice how tall Colton was?

      Please register in order to view this content

    • They didn't need to have some slutty gay dude as their representation. Just a 'normal' guy getting involved with another guy or two (or three). Just like the straight characters. Thinking about it, they missed the boat by not having a few other single charcters at the beginning. Maybe Naomi or Ashley could be shown meeting Derek/Jacob and  we could follow their romance. Too many characters were coupled up at the start. As a tattoo hater I was surprised to see Tomas so inked. Don't find it attractive or sexy. I'm surprised an actor would do that as it's definitely a statement and may not be appropriate for some roles. Suppose they can cover if necessary. I didn't buy Kat being all girly and then paying off Darius to get into Eva's room. Way too cliche. She should have just come along when the housekeeping was leaving and breezed in saying it was her room. And her smug looks in the hotel room and 'Now I've got you!!' talks to herself at Orphey Gene's...no.  
    • Omg I was so annoyed. Like girl calm down. Coming on way too strong. Omg I forgot about this

      Please register in order to view this content

    • I thought it got stale before Jocks death lol. His death picked things back up for me.
    • 1976 Pt 5 Tony is summoned to the reading of the will in the Llanfair library,as he’s a principal in the will. He tells Joe there’s not a chance of coming to terms with Dorian, as he is sure she brought about Victor’s death by torturing him emotionally when he was her helpless prisoner after his stroke. Ironically, Chapin hand delivers to Viki a letter her father wrote before his stroke, praising Dorian and asking Viki to befriend and support his widow when he was no longer there. Viki feels a responsibility to her father’s wishes and vows to try with Dorian. Victor’s will leaves the expected amounts to members of his family and staff, with the lion’s share of his stock and property going to Dorian. Victor’s will explains that his son Tony expressed the desire that he not be “bought from the grave,” and, in keeping with his son’s wishes, the only bequest to him is the knowledge of his father’s love and respect. Tony is deeply moved. Dorian’s first attempt to use her new power is the recommendation of Peter as head of the Merideth Lord Wolek hospital wing, claiming that naming Larry would be virtual nepotism. Peter, who has devoted considerable time and effort to helping Jenny get over Tim’s death with gentle, affectionate support, is happy at this suggestion, but Jenny points out Dorian is merely using him to hurt Larry. Viki disregards Dorian’s ingenuous assurances that she’s not trying to wield her new power but is merely putting Peter up for consideration for a future opportunity, if not this one, and tells her she won’t be able to fulfill her father’s desire that they be friends unless Dorian stops interfering. Larry, fully understanding Dorian’s personal motives, warns her he’s going to fight for the appointment no matter what. Realizing that she has made a tactical error, Dorian announces that she won’t even attend the board meeting but will give her proxy to Jim. She admits to Matt McAllister, still her confidant, that this was humiliating, but it was a necessary protective tactic. Dorian manages to win her next round at Joe’s office when, after he praises her decision to yield on appointing Peter, she expresses concern for Viki “at a time like this.” Joe, of course, jumps on her words, and Dorian, pretending great distress at having mentioned something she shouldn’t have, is “forced” to explain that she knew about the congenital heart condition Megan had and that any child of Joe’s is likely to inherit it. She overheard the doctors discussing it at the time of the accident, she continues, and naturally assumed that Joe already knew.  Joe arranges a meeting at home with Viki and asks her how she could live a lie like this; how she could go through their lives as if everything were fine while every moment was a lie. He is further upset when, in trying to explain that it was out of her love for him that she kept the truth from him, she mentions that Jim and Larry also know but Cathy still hasn’t been told. Viki tells Joe that Dorian deliberately told him this way to hurt their marriage, and she is very upset when he starts toward the door, pleading that they have always talked things out in the past. Joe coolly points out that she didn’t do that when she learned about Megan and continues out the door.  A tearful Viki is shaken and when Joe later returns, having spent several hours in a bar drinking only soft drinks,she breaks down, crying that she was convinced he’d left her. Joe assures her they can get through this despite everything, because their relation is based on love and mutual respect. 
    • If you think about it, DALLAS and DYNASTY grew stale right about the same time, even if the ratings were slow to reflect that.  FC and KL, on the other hand, tried to stay fresh, but KL was way more successful at it, I think, than FC.  (That [!@#$%^&*] with The Thirteen does not hold up well, lol).
    • GH 1976 Pt 8 Heather takes advantage of the situation by asking Jeff to come and look at Tommy. She uses sympathy, compassion, and her own feminine wiles, together with his misery and his pills, to lure him into bed. Later, sober, he apologizes. Learning from Pearson that Monica has seen a divorce lawyer, Jeff confronts her, and she insists it’s a lie. Avoiding his attempts to kiss her, she musses her hair and tears her blouse, then rushes to Rick’s, claiming that she can’t stay with that maniac any longer. They wind up in Rick’s bed, and after making love he confesses he always loved her. Rick replies to her question of whether he wants to marry her by saying he has to talk to Jeff. Monica insists that Jeff not bear any pressure from their problems. As she leaves, Rick gives her a key to his apartment. Jeff, having spent the night drinking, misses his surgical assignment, and Steve, informing him that his personal life can’t interfere with his profession, puts him on suspension. Rick can’t persuade Steve to reverse his decision, but Mark, sensing what’s at the heart of Jeff’s problem, convinces Steve to lift Jeff’s suspension and transfer him to Mark’s service. Rick asks for his key back, telling Monica they can’t do anything as long as she’s under Jeff’s roof. So she has a duplicate made and moves into intern’s quarters, explaining that Jeff’s violence drove her out. She tells Jeff she needs privacy to work things out, and tells Rick Jeff wanted her out. Thinking that this is the preliminary to a divorce, Rick tells her she can come to his place. In New York, Leslie’s abortion is delayed by a mix-up in scheduling, and she calls Terri to commiserate. Rick overhears Terri’s conversation and forces the whole story from her. He flies to New York to stop Leslie, feeling responsible for pointing out how evil Cam was, and arrives to find that she has decided she can’t deny her child the right to live. Monica, meanwhile, expecting that Rick will be home, uses her key to let herself into his apartment and is shocked to find Mark there; knowing that Mark was uncomfortable at the hotel, Rick offered Mark use of the apartment in his absence. Monica is upset to learn that Rick is in New York with Leslie, and Mark doesn’t know why. Mark does advise Monica to play fair with Jeff, but she resents his interference. The next day, while covering for Leslie at the clinic, Monica discovers Leslie’s lab test report and jumps to the conclusion that the baby is Rick’s. When Rick and Leslie return, Monica wastes no time in accusing him. He is dismayed to see that she is still as suspicious and possessive as she was before he went to Africa, and points out that her making a duplicate  key proves she hasn’t changed. Terri encourages Leslie to see Rick in a romantic light and then suggests to Rick that Leslie is interested in him. Rick likes this idea and tells Mark he’s growing ‘unwilling to cope with Monica’s unreasonable demands. But Monica immediately recognizes the threat Leslie represents and decides to attack. She goes to Leslie and tells her flatly that she and Rick are having an affair and he’s her exclusive property. Leslie, who realizes she has been falling in love with Rick, is hurt, and Rick is mystified when he feels Leslie pulling away from him. Monica’s big moment comes when she brings Rick a housewarming gift and seduces him into letting her stay overnight. She is in the bedroom when Leslie stops by to apologize for refusing his dates, and makes a dramatic entrance into the living room draped in Rick’s bathrobe. Leslie turns and runs out. Rick later informs her he’s disappointed in her, because she prejudged Monica and him rather than giving him the benefit of the doubt. Heather tries to arrange another tryst with Jeff, but he replies that he still loves his wife. Heather decides there’s only one way to get Jeff to be pregnant with his child. She manages to overhear Monica putting Jeff down by telling him he no longer turns her on and should look for someone he does. Heather goes to Jeff and tells him that she heard Monica and that she is the one he’s looking for. She manages to get him into bed again, and sweetly assures him this is right. She then sets the stage for future meetings. Steve, meanwhile, offers to help Monica and Jeff work out their problems. Jeff is willing, but Monica turns the idea down. Instead, she presses Terri to convince Jeff to end the marriage. Terri now knows that Monica isn’t a good wife for Jeff and promises to try. But Jeff makes it clear to Monica that he still loves her and won’t let her go. She is bitter and upset, as she has already implied to Rick that she will soon be free. Audrey is upset to find that Florence Andrews has been inquiring about Tommy and herself. She goes to Florence’s home and finds she’s away now. Florence has gone down to Mexico to sign a sworn statement that she purchased a false death certificate for Tom, to protect his son after his wrongful conviction. Tom, learning from her that Steve and Audrey are to be married and Steve is planning to adopt Tommy, tells  Florence not to do anything, as there’s still no assurance that he’ll ever get out. But the judge does accept the statement, and, ironically, on the day that Steve  and Audrey are married, Tom is released from prison.
    • 1976 Pt 12 Final part Laurie agrees with Stuart that Peggy is rushing into marriage to prove that the rape didn’t ruin her life.  She points out that the only way Peg can be sure is to make love with Jack before the wedding. Stuart admits she’s right but points out that he can’t suggest that to Peggy. As the wedding approaches, Peg seems happy that Jack’s become close to the family. However, her happiness is shattered by a nightmare in which her loving bridegroom turns into a leering Ron Becker, forcing her to cancel the wedding. Jack reassures her he’ll wait as long as it takes, and Chris confides that she and Snapper didn’t consummate their marriage on their wedding night because of her own rape experience, but Peggy tells Chris she might never be ready.  Despite her desire to keep Karen as her own daughter, Chris helps a police artist create a sketch of Nancy so it can be printed in the newspaper as part of a search for her. When the attempt proves fruitless, however, Chris asks Greg to file application for permanent custody of the child. Greg points out that adoption is the only way to prevent Ron from returning and claiming the child, and that it will take quite a while. Meanwhile, a nurse in the psychiatric ward sees a resemblance  between the newspaper drawing and her autistic patient, Mrs. Jackson, but since “Fran” doesn’t respond to the name Nancy and no one else sees the similarity, she fears she’s mistaken. Jill is horrified to overhear Kay, when brihging baby Phillip a Christmas gift, telling the child she remembers the night he was conceived. Kay has to then admit to Jill she saw her with Phillip in the bunkhouse that night. Jill is aghast to realize that Kay new the truth all along and put her through such agony in spite of it, denying her baby his father’s name. Lance tells Laurie they’ll marry on Valentine’s Day. He laughs that it’s corny but agrees, secretly wishing it were sooner, as Vanessa has vowed to prevent it. Indeed, Vanessa makes an unprecedented venture out of the house to visit Brad, telling him to rebuff any advance Leslie might make to him, as she’s reaching out to him only from a sense of duty. But Laurie then makes a concerted effort to reach Vanessa. Without being sure why she’s trying so hard, she tries to assure the woman she’s not losing Lance and she, Laurie, will help her find a plastic surgeon somewhere who can help her. Grudgingly, Vanessa seems to be reconsidering her view of Laurie, and Laurie is delighted when Lance offers her a choice between two diamond necklaces, explaining that her preference will be Vanessa’s Christmas gift. Learning from Les about Brad’s blindness, Stuart tells Brad he could have turned Leslie away only out of great love. Knowing that Les is going to see Brad again, Laurie warns him not to bring the baby into their discussion, as Leslie will come back only she’s convinced he loves her, not for the babies sake. Leslie finds Brad disheveled and sloppy, and proceeds to straighten the apartment, stating that she can't respect him if he lets himself go. Realizing that neither Brad nor Les will make the first move, Laurie hurries things along by refusing to help Brad with his grooming, saying he should ask his wife. Then, having learned  that Brad offered Les the use of their piano, Laurie untunes the Brooks' piano forcing Leslie to accept his offer. By refusing to cater to his  blindness, Les manages to get Brad to stop wallowing in pity, and by the time Leslie’s Christmas braille message of her love and her need for him arrives, they are husband and wife again Lance takes Laurie on a business trip on New Year's Eve, and tells her, on board his plane, she won't be  won't be able to call him “Mr. All Talk and No action” after tonight. When Laurie protests that waited this long and will continue to wait until married, Lance delights her by instructing his pilot to land in Las Vegas, where they are married immediately.
    • Yeah, not sure why Jack and Jen didn’t rush to Marlena - or even Carrie - to offer their condolences. A few flashbacks would've been a nice touch too. Instead, we got a whole episode of them talking about Chad and Abby? Come on. On the bright side, I loved Anna’s scenes with Marlena and Carrie - sweet and heartfelt, felt like a real 80s throwback.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy