10 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

And didn't Ben turn out to be related to the Buchanan's?  Maybe deep down, he reminded her a bit like Clint.

Ben did turn out to be Asa's son, which JFP clearly thought would cement him forever. Except he had little to no relationship with the Buchanans following the reveal (who he'd spent the bulk of his run actively despising) despite a lot of lip service from Asa and even the visiting Clint Ritchie once Ben was comatose, and he also lasted barely two years with minimal story after the truth came out.

6 minutes ago, Planet Soap said:

I didn't like that Viki betrayed Clint who stood by her through all the Niki drama. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Viki know Sloan was dying before their sexual affair? Why betray your husband and marry a dying man, only to end up alone in the end? I could excuse the affair plot if Clint hadn't been back burnered t until Jerry Ver Dorn assumed the role.  

I don't believe Sloan was dying at the time. They knew he was ill but it didn't become terminal til much later, IIRC. The original plan (supposedly, depending on who you ask) may have been to kill Sloan regardless and have Clint win the triangle, if not for Clint Ritchie having a serious accident IRL which kept him offscreen for a considerable period starting in the summer of '93. This supposedly led to Viki and Sloan being extended and becoming more part of the firmament. But that's a lot of he said/she said BTS, and I can't be sure what's true.

I like and have always liked elements of the Sloan saga and Roy Thinnes, and I think restoring Viki's primacy as an individual was important. But I do think Clint would always be the better man and I've always understood why people hated it. I think it would've been more interesting in the long run to see the Gottlieb/Malone regime reckon with restoring Viki and Clint, which for various reasons they never got the chance to do as they allegedly planned.

Edited November 22, 20241 yr by Vee

5 hours ago, Khan said:

Frankly, I just never believed that Viki was the type to fall for a younger man.  And I don't know, maybe that was the point: that, after a lifetime of relationships with men who were more her age (and who, on one level or another, reminded her of her father), she had discovered happiness again with someone so unexpected.  But, again, I just never believed she could fall for a guy with whom she had not that much in common.

I never really felt onscreen that it was a younger man/older woman story. Of course it was, but Derwin seemed older than his age while Erika Slezak aged well and managed to maintain a certain vitality that never moved into the Sally Field Soapdish mode of desperation. That may be another reason I didn't care about the story - there was no believable conflict. I'm not saying I would have wanted her paired up with Jason Webb, although that would have been preferable to many of the choices made with Viki in OLTL's last few decades.

8 hours ago, Vee said:

If you listen to the YouTube comment section 'everyone' hated the Gottlieb era too. The one or two people on many of those videos relentlessly ranting about how terrible it was compared to the genius of Rauch crack me up.

Ben and Viki (I refuse to call her Blondie) had a reasonable fanbase. And Erika certainly loved it. I liked the idea on paper of a May/December passion for Viki and was open to it at the beginning as frontburner story, but in practice Ben was generally a two-dimensional rage addict with very little personality or distinguishing characteristic and he wore thin very fast. As far as the larger audience goes, at best he was very polarizing with longtime OLTL fans re: the characters he displaced, the story he dominated and his role in an intrusive family, his snarling about the evils of Asa, etc. and was often as unpopular as any other Rappaport element of the JFP era outside of the hardcore Ben/Blondie fans. A lot of people rejoiced when he went out that window.

I think it was a bit of a shame Mark Derwin's own very funny, sweet IRL personality couldn't translate to the character - as a dramatic actor he was always very limited on soaps. As a person he seems like a mensch.

It's always interesting to see opinion now compared to the time. I remember some fans who VOCALLY loathed Clint and the Clint/Viki relationship. They thought he was controlling and abusive and were glad she got to move on. I always liked Clint and Clint/Viki, but then I started OLTL much later than they had - if I'd watched all through the Rauch years or the early '90s when they made Clint a homophobe, I might have had a different view.

The Rappadavidsons and other toys like Tim Gibbs' godawful Kevin were a forerunner to the divisive, cynical approach of soaps in the last few decades, and of JFP as a producer - to try to make them popular she was willing to trash large portions of the canvas. And they were popular only with a subset of fans who only seemed to watch for them (similar to many fans now), which meant when Gary Tomlin booted their asses, many fans didn't seem to care. 

(I will say I never even saw a single fan of Gibbs' Kevin) 

She also tried hard to use Asa as a boo hiss baddie to make viewers warm to them, as had been done in the past with characters like Lee Ann, but for the most part I remember fans siding with him.

IIRC, once Tomlin comes in, Ben does become a more palatable character, but he was also heavily backburnered as it was clear Mark Derwin was leaving.

Edited November 22, 20241 yr by DRW50

1 hour ago, Vee said:

Ben did turn out to be Asa's son, which JFP clearly thought would cement him forever. Except he had little to no relationship with the Buchanans following the reveal (who he'd spent the bulk of his run actively despising) despite a lot of lip service from Asa and even the visiting Clint Ritchie once Ben was comatose, and he also lasted barely two years with minimal story after the truth came out.

I don't believe Sloan was dying at the time. They knew he was ill but it didn't become terminal til much later, IIRC. The original plan (supposedly, depending on who you ask) may have been to kill Sloan regardless and have Clint win the triangle, if not for Clint Ritchie having a serious accident IRL which kept him offscreen for a considerable period starting in the summer of '93. This supposedly led to Viki and Sloan being extended and becoming more part of the firmament. But that's a lot of he said/she said BTS, and I can't be sure what's true.

I like and have always liked elements of the Sloan saga and Roy Thinnes, and I think restoring Viki's primacy as an individual was important. But I do think Clint would always be the better man and I've always understood why people hated it. I think it would've been more interesting in the long run to see the Gottlieb/Malone regime reckon with restoring Viki and Clint, which for various reasons they never got the chance to do as they allegedly planned.

To me, the Viki/Sloan romance was well written and acted and they had chemistry. It's just that the lack of Viki/Clint restoration and the subsequent irrelevance of Clint sucked. 

Bad Moves by Well Liked EP: The destruction of Tony under Wendy Riche, and written by (who? Guza? Labine? +more?). He and AJ were the largest casualties of baby Michael and Sonny/Carly/Jason. 

Another bad move: Planting seeds of the mob takeover. The mob stuff has always existed on GH since the days of Frank Smith. Under Riche (with writers Levinson and Labine +) it felt balanced. The mob stories were more humanist and consequential rather than an action show in the 80s. Wikipedia calls this the "Womanessence" era. But this set the stage for JFP/Guza to completely restructure the show around the mob.  I don't mind GH featuring organized crime, but it should be a part of the show, not the whole thing. 

Edited November 22, 20241 yr by Planet Soap

One of the aspects of the Sloan character that annoys me is giving him a dead gay son (I wonder if Malone was a Heathers fan) and pouring on the sympathy for him over the way he treated said dead gay son. All this at a time when other than a recurring character who mostly disappeared after the plot ended, there were no gay men on the canvas (something Malone would try to rectify a decade later, but that didn't really end well [not that the end result of the story was in any way Malone's fault as he was gone by then]).

12 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

One of the aspects of the Sloan character that annoys me is giving him a dead gay son (I wonder if Malone was a Heathers fan) and pouring on the sympathy for him over the way he treated said dead gay son. All this at a time when other than a recurring character who mostly disappeared after the plot ended, there were no gay men on the canvas

Sure, but that was also a very different time. Almost no soap had anything like that. Having Billy was a huge step in '92-'93.

22 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

It's always interesting to see opinion now compared to the time. I remember some fans who VOCALLY loathed Clint and the Clint/Viki relationship. They thought he was controlling and abusive and were glad she got to move on. I always liked Clint and Clint/Viki, but then I started OLTL much later than they had - if I'd watched all through the Rauch years or the early '90s when they made Clint a homophobe, I might have had a different view.

Yeah, the Ben and Blondie fanbase and the Viki/Clint fans despised each other at the time. I was never a part of that but I remember some real psychos in the mix. Nonetheless, while B&B had a vocal fanbase they were not a supercouple and a lot of the audience just hated all the Rappadavidsons period.

Ben was before my OLTL watching time, so whenever I read about him I instantly think of that comedic article from the SnarkWeighsIn column where he explained why Ben and Viki were chosen, out of all the couples on the show at that time, to have a scene where she orally pleases him. Makes me laugh every time.

Oh God. I don't remember that.

1 hour ago, Vee said:

Oh God. I don't remember that.

It was a completely made up parody, the scene never happened, but the way he wrote it, and me being a teenager at the time, I believed it was the real thing until the article got rambunctious near its end. I've never forgotten it. I miss that column all the time and wonder where that guy is these days.

1 minute ago, Bright Eyes said:

It was a completely made up parody, the scene never happened, but the way he wrote it, and me being a teenager at the time, I believed it was the real thing until the article got rambunctious near its end. I've never forgotten it. I miss that column all the time and wonder where that guy is these days.

LOL, maybe I'll look it up in the Wayback Machine. They did have some horny-ass scenes though. I think we saw some of their mostly naked wedding night or honeymoon.

12 minutes ago, Bright Eyes said:

It was a completely made up parody, the scene never happened, but the way he wrote it, and me being a teenager at the time, I believed it was the real thing until the article got rambunctious near its end. I've never forgotten it. I miss that column all the time and wonder where that guy is these days.

Is it a different person than today's GHSnark?

https://www.facebook.com/search/top?q=general hospital snark 

 

Edited November 23, 20241 yr by Contessa Donatella
info

5 hours ago, Vee said:

Ben did turn out to be Asa's son, which JFP clearly thought would cement him forever. Except he had little to no relationship with the Buchanans following the reveal (who he'd spent the bulk of his run actively despising) despite a lot of lip service from Asa and even the visiting Clint Ritchie once Ben was comatose, and he also lasted barely two years with minimal story after the truth came out.

I don't believe Sloan was dying at the time. They knew he was ill but it didn't become terminal til much later, IIRC. The original plan (supposedly, depending on who you ask) may have been to kill Sloan regardless and have Clint win the triangle, if not for Clint Ritchie having a serious accident IRL which kept him offscreen for a considerable period starting in the summer of '93. This supposedly led to Viki and Sloan being extended and becoming more part of the firmament. But that's a lot of he said/she said BTS, and I can't be sure what's true.

I like and have always liked elements of the Sloan saga and Roy Thinnes, and I think restoring Viki's primacy as an individual was important. But I do think Clint would always be the better man and I've always understood why people hated it. I think it would've been more interesting in the long run to see the Gottlieb/Malone regime reckon with restoring Viki and Clint, which for various reasons they never got the chance to do as they allegedly planned.

This is the scene I was thinking of. Shortly after Viki met Sloan he revealed his terminal illness was motivating him to repair his relationship with Andrew. This revelation came before their affair began. 

Fom skimming through this youtube playlist, It appears that Sloan thought he was in remission for some time and the Viki affair progressed. When his Hodgkin's disease returned, Sloan pushed Viki away, by pretending to be in love with another woman, to spare Viki seeing him deteriorate.

That plan failed, and he wed Viki, apparently despite his terminal illness.

IMO, it made no sense for Viki to leave her husband and invest in a future with a dying man. 

Edited November 23, 20241 yr by Planet Soap

I mean, he wasn't a dead man walking for the duration of his time on the show. People like Sloan have lived with their conditions for years. And as you say, he was in remission for some time. It was not, in '93 or '94 a situation where people were like checking the clock waiting for Sloan to die, at least not IIRC. Had Clint Ritchie stayed healthy and other factors not intervened they might have sped up the timetable on Sloan's demise as was allegedly planned, but we really have no idea.

Edited November 23, 20241 yr by Vee

4 minutes ago, Vee said:

I mean, he wasn't a dead man walking for the duration of his time on the show. People like Sloan have lived with their conditions for years. And as you say, he was in remission for some time. It was not, in '93 or '94 a situation where people were like checking the clock waiting for Sloan to die, at least not IIRC. Had Clint Ritchie stayed healthy and other factors not intervened they might have sped up the timetable on Sloan's demise as was allegedly planned, but we really have no idea.

His condition didn't really come back up again until his last months, when he was trying to hide from Viki that he was about to die. 

Just now, DRW50 said:

His condition didn't really come back up again until his last months, when he was trying to hide from Viki that he was about to die. 

That's what I thought, yes.

What was also interesting is how immediately Malone's team went into the DID story, how early they were hinting at sexual abuse, And how early they hinted Viki killed Victor. The day after Sloan's death Vicky had a dream where The man she was kissing transformed from Sloan into her father, And she had a dream that she was "smothering" Dorian. I know this 1995 story understandably be considered a "bad move" but this is perhaps my favorite Viki story.

Erica Slezak even expressed that the original Victor actor would have turned over it his grave if he knew what the character became. She also said it was unfathomable that the original idea of Victor with sexually abuse his daughter.

Edited November 23, 20241 yr by Planet Soap