7 minutes ago, KLN said:

Adding to this.

Maybe not BPD because I don't trust Ron swerving even a little bit close to mental illness. But they should totally examine why Kristen was desperate for love in the first place.

Why she wanted daddy's approval and how following his warped version of love and morality led her down this path. Why she didn't know love as a child and clung to her brother as a foster reject. Why the trauma of losing a child, the family she finally thought she found and the love of a man whose heart she never really had left her in shambles.

Conceive it with disordered thinking in mind, write in some unhealthy coping mechanisms and you've got a fascinating anti-heroine IMO.

Right?

F___ that noise. 😄😄

Haha!  The fact that John would spew the "she has a special place in my heart because we share a child" nonsense was funny.  Like stop it.  You and Marlena are not normal.  I remember a scene after Aremid? and Marlena and John were lying in bed together practically cuddling after a kidnapping attempt by Stefano or something and they were acting like it was perfectly acceptable behavior.  How epically dumb were they not to see they both were into each other?  Instead, John just doubles down and gets Kristen pregnant.  And Kristen really didn't see ANY red flags before she read the letter?  C'mon girl.  I expect better of you.  And I still get another laugh out of "Kristen didn't believe I didn't shoot Tony" stuff.  John, literally, every shred of evidence was pointing against you.  She was being a logical person, not a jerk.  I guess I am turning into a Kristen defender in my old age.  Re-watching really makes you see John/Marlena were being self-sacrificing, obnoxious people, pretending to protect others, but in general just causing chaos lol.  I loved it at 13, but, man they really could have saved numerous people a lot of trouble by just being honest.

10 minutes ago, carolineg said:

Haha!  The fact that John would spew the "she has a special place in my heart because we share a child" nonsense was funny.  Like stop it.  You and Marlena are not normal.  I remember a scene after Aremid? and Marlena and John were lying in bed together practically cuddling after a kidnapping attempt by Stefano or something and they were acting like it was perfectly acceptable behavior.  How epically dumb were they not to see they both were into each other?  Instead, John just doubles down and gets Kristen pregnant.  And Kristen really didn't see ANY red flags before she read the letter?  C'mon girl.  I expect better of you.  And I still get another laugh out of "Kristen didn't believe I didn't shoot Tony" stuff.  John, literally, every shred of evidence was pointing against you.  She was being a logical person, not a jerk.  I guess I am turning into a Kristen defender in my old age.  Re-watching really makes you see John/Marlena were being self-sacrificing, obnoxious people, pretending to protect others, but in general just causing chaos lol.  I loved it at 13, but, man they really could have saved numerous people a lot of trouble by just being honest.

😄😄😄

You said every word!

I love JER but he was weird as hell.

52 minutes ago, janea4old said:

In my opinion, Delia Reid Ryan Coleridge had a completely different vibe than Kristen.

She was always scheming to get whatever man she had set her sights on, and did some bad things that physically harmed people.  But she seemed more like a Sami Brady schemer (to a much much greater extreme!) who had gone off the rails and had no boundaries.

Just my perception.

Interesting.

That sounds like Kristen to me but I see Sami too, another character whose downward spiral was spawned from JER's belief that everything in the world is sin except cheating as long as you pray first.

Edited January 1, 20223 yr by KLN

8 minutes ago, KLN said:

😄😄😄

You said every word!

I love JER but he was weird as hell.

Listen, I accept JER and the dumbing down of all characters to fit his storytelling.  Fine.  Whatever.  Kristen had a very damaging upbringing and maybe was too trusting.  John had a lot of sh*t and a bizarre ever changing backstory and persona.  But Marlena, girl, you are someone who is counseling others as an actual licensed Dr.  I get you were kidnapped/possessed for most of the 90's, but she should at least be able to read a room or a man that you've been in love with and married to.  Instead, she was just encouraging silliness, delusions, and lies because she felt guilty she committed the ultimate sin of cheating on her husband like she was the only person who had ever done that in the history of the world.  I really do love the greatest love of all time crap on soaps, but Kristen should have left those fools in the dust in 1996 like you said.  It was not worth her time or energy.   And honestly, John/Marlena should have been more mad at each other for not clearing up the simplest of misunderstandings to one another.   I actually do have a huge issue with their reunion as well because nothing was really talked about or resolved.  They never really took a moment to discuss their massive failings and just got engaged hours later.   It really takes me out of that long awaited reunion, but I get they needed those moments to bring Roman back.

On 1/1/2022 at 4:54 PM, carolineg said:

Listen, I accept JER and the dumbing down of all characters to fit his storytelling.  Fine.  Whatever.  Kristen had a very damaging upbringing and maybe was too trusting.  John had a lot of sh*t and a bizarre ever changing backstory and persona.  But Marlena, girl, you are someone who is counseling others as an actual licensed Dr.  I get you were kidnapped/possessed for most of the 90's, but she should at least be able to read a room or a man that you've been in love with and married to.  Instead, she was just encouraging silliness, delusions, and lies because she felt guilty she committed the ultimate sin of cheating on her husband like she was the only person who had ever done that in the history of the world.  I really do love the greatest love of all time crap on soaps, but Kristen should have left those fools in the dust in 1996 like you said.  It was not worth her time or energy.   And honestly, John/Marlena should have been more mad at each other for not clearing up the simplest of misunderstandings to one another.   I actually do have a huge issue with their reunion as well because nothing was really talked about or resolved.  They never really took a moment to discuss their massive failings and just got engaged hours later.   It really takes me out of that long awaited reunion, but I get they needed those moments to bring Roman back.

You said it all... again.

JER was winging it by the end. He had his sights on his own show and kind of sabotaged Days on the way out in my opinion. Took everything he spent years building out of rotation at once.

Unfortunately, it wasn't in the cards that Kristen gather her wits and tell them to kick rocks on her way out of town where she bumped into amnesiac Steve or something.

Edited April 3, 20232 yr by KLN

3 minutes ago, KLN said:

You said it all... again.

JER was winging it by the end. He had his sights on his own show and kind of sabotaged Days on his way out.

His vision for Kristen, unlike other characters he managed to write grey, was to become the eventual yin to Marlena's halo white yang, because in his incel mind the only sin that doesn't count is cheating as long as you're pretty, white and you pray first.

Unfortunately it wasn't in the cards that Kristen gather her wits and tell them to kick rocks on her way out of town where she bumped into amnesiac Steve Johnson or something like that.

Now that she's where she is, I think there are places they can go with it.

I get the exhaustion, that's why I think she works best as a rotated character. But this bitch serves story.

Also, talking about all this reminds me how stupid it is that Ron keeps writing it like Kristen is the only person John ever got it up for.

Bro, you weren't there.

I wish Kristen would have high tailed it out of town after dropping the Roman bomb because her last months were wasted.   She had to witness John/Hope making out in a freakin jungle because that was the new thing in 1997.

John basically couldn't deal with being alone.  That was part of his character.  He was sleeping with Rebecca just to make Marlena jealous basically.  John could get it up for just about anyone.  Ask Paul's random unseen maid mother.  

Anyhow, there is something there with Kristen/John being unresolved.  And I do think there is a lot of Kristen/John that was physically based.  They did have a lot of sex scenes.  But everything was completely glossed over in 1997.  John lost a 'wife' and a 'child' and was proposing to Marlena 12 hours later.  None of the massive affair guilt was in play.  There was no waiting or dates.  It was straight to sex and marriage, which we was earned, but we had waited years for this and it disappointed to be honest.  I know JER wanted to tie everything up in a bow before he left and the climax of the Kristen story was good.  The reunion was just lackluster.  I don't know if I am explaining this right.  I didn't need John/Marlena to be all PG and innocent courting because they were two middle aged people that shared a life and child.  I just needed a little more than "yay! we love each other!  Let's get married tomorrow!"

On 1/1/2022 at 5:26 PM, carolineg said:

I wish Kristen would have high tailed it out of town after dropping the Roman bomb because her last months were wasted.   She had to witness John/Hope making out in a freakin jungle because that was the new thing in 1997.

John basically couldn't deal with being alone.  That was part of his character.  He was sleeping with Rebecca just to make Marlena jealous basically.  John could get it up for just about anyone.  Ask Paul's random unseen maid mother.  

Anyhow, there is something there with Kristen/John being unresolved.  And I do think there is a lot of Kristen/John that was physically based.  They did have a lot of sex scenes.  But everything was completely glossed over in 1997.  John lost a 'wife' and a 'child' and was proposing to Marlena 12 hours later.  None of the massive affair guilt was in play.  There was no waiting or dates.  It was straight to sex and marriage, which we was earned, but we had waited years for this and it disappointed to be honest.  I know JER wanted to tie everything up in a bow before he left and the climax of the Kristen story was good.  The reunion was just lackluster.  I don't know if I am explaining this right.  I didn't need John/Marlena to be all PG and innocent courting because they were two middle aged people that shared a life and child.  I just needed a little more than "yay! we love each other!  Let's get married tomorrow!"

I get it.

Edited April 3, 20232 yr by KLN

Just now, KLN said:

No, I get it. 

That's why I loved when Kristen rushed the Penthouse Grill the night they announced their engagement.

I mean, sure, Kristen went batshit months prior and shouldn't have tried to fling herself from the restaurant balcony, but uh... couldn't we gather our bearings a minute? Maybe discuss the varying degrees of blame?

JER was a heretic incel who lionized Marlena and swept the messy truth under the rug to keep HIS ideal in the golden light when the time came to really assess things.

Bwhahaha!  I loved Kristen trying to fling herself off a roof.  If you're gonna go out do it with all the DRAMA!!!  Cause a ridiculous scene just to annoy them!!!

To this day, I think John/Marlena are glossing over A LOT of their relationship issues.   I 100% believe they are like the greatest love of all time and the best and most special, but they generally ignore the wreckage they left with their choices.   A lot of people were damaged and hurt by them, but it's SOULMATES, so who cares?  I just wish they took a moment and some space to say we could have done this all a bit differently starting in 1991.   Like, hey, we probably could have de-escalated this thing if we acted like adults back then instead of dragging half the town into our mess.   Again, Marlena, as a shrink and human, should have probably gotten a little worried John was organizing two weddings to 2 different women about a week or so apart.   Instead, she was too busy choosing one of the ugliest wedding dresses of all time with Carrie and Laura.  Yellow with daisies and a hood?  Marlena you aren't modeling for Seventeen Magazine.  Find an appropriate dress.

On 1/1/2022 at 5:26 PM, carolineg said:

The reunion was just lackluster.  I don't know if I am explaining this right.  I didn't need John/Marlena to be all PG and innocent courting because they were two middle aged people that shared a life and child.  I just needed a little more than "yay! we love each other!  Let's get married tomorrow!"

.

Edited April 3, 20232 yr by KLN

2 minutes ago, KLN said:

Adding to this specific point, I think it again comes down to JER's stupid evangelism.

He knew J&M did people dirty and left a whole mess but he wanted to redeem them without addressing THEIR wrongs or putting in real work. JER viewed the world in a tribalistic and black/white way so that was never going to happen. He skipped right to "they're angels" while other characters ended up in various versions of their own hell as he intended.

Also he was an incel and would've worn panties for Deidre so anything Marlena did was for the greater good in his mind.

I swear I don't hate J&M. 😄

See in a lot of ways he did make Marlena pay, but not John.  She was the one who was possessed for cheating on her husband (in really rare, unusual circumstances-she didn't just pick up John in a local bar).  She was the one who was alone and celibate.  Not John.  So in some ways Marlena did repent.  John just got a hot new girlfriend.  I don't think their affair was their biggest sin.  Sure it damaged Sami and Roman, but get over it.  Things happen.  The deception was with Kristen and later Roman with their weird guilt about just telling the truth.  They were/are our hero/heroine on this show and their behavior was just odd I guess.  Just own it.  You already had an affair and a child because of it.  I don't think your love is actually going to kill Roman.  Rude.  They must think very little of Roman.

I mean Deidre/Marlena deserve to be icons, but JER had her take a hard fall and she never was able to own her actions and say it is what it is. It's been completely whitewashed but yet she constantly still feels guilty about it and Belle is like 45 these days.  Of course Marlena is going to be the angel on Days.  She was long before JER.  She was always the main heroine no matter how much they pushed other characters. 

On 1/1/2022 at 6:27 PM, carolineg said:

See in a lot of ways he did make Marlena pay, but not John.  She was the one who was possessed for cheating on her husband (in really rare, unusual circumstances-she didn't just pick up John in a local bar).  She was the one who was alone and celibate.  Not John.  So in some ways Marlena did repent.  John just got a hot new girlfriend.  I don't think their affair was their biggest sin.  Sure it damaged Sami and Roman, but get over it.  Things happen.  The deception was with Kristen and later Roman with their weird guilt about just telling the truth.  They were/are our hero/heroine on this show and their behavior was just odd I guess.  Just own it.  You already had an affair and a child because of it.  I don't think your love is actually going to kill Roman.  Rude.  They must think very little of Roman.

I mean Deidre/Marlena deserve to be icons, but JER had her take a hard fall and she never was able to own her actions and say it is what it is. It's been completely whitewashed but yet she constantly still feels guilty about it and Belle is like 45 these days.  Of course Marlena is going to be the angel on Days.  She was long before JER.  She was always the main heroine no matter how much they pushed other characters. 

No, you're right. I adore J&M. They're the center of the show as I see it. I just recognize the pathos of JER.

Edited April 3, 20232 yr by KLN

55 minutes ago, KLN said:

No, you're 100% right. 

I adore J&M, swear to God. It sounds like I don't but I've loved them since '94 and loved the decade of messy stories their love affair springboarded. They're the center of the show as I see it.

I just recognize the pathos of JER.

No! No!  I love Jarlena and can see you do too.    Their stories were great, but you can still love them and acknowledge they fully have over dramatized their love story as well.   Like 4 people would have been mad if they hooked up in 1995 (Roman, Kristen, Sami and Stefano).  Everyone else would have shrugged their shoulders and moved on.  The show honestly acted like John/Marlena were meeting at the local Motel 6 for 20 years having an affair.  It was a lot.  Nicole's had sex with like 4 people in 6 months and I don't care.   JER made them repent.  In 1993 it was scandalous, again with their impromptu weird sex places, but not the end of the world.  Good people cheat all the time.   Marlena legit had two husbands with the same name.  It's a bizarre circumstance no one has probably ever dealt with ever lol.  And it's not as if it was a useless roll in the hay and kid.  They are together to this day.  

Idk, Jarlena are my 2nd favorite couple of all time.  Sonny/Brenda on GH are my first.  Imagine that minefield of random kids, marriages, and unfulfilled promise.  So, Jarlena are fine by me.

I do think they were super EXTRA in the 90's with their nonsense though and I don't think I am being unfair about that at all.  At some point in 1996 I felt like just build a bridge and get over your issues you two.  The women laid herself in front of a guillotine for you.  I think she likes you John.

*Also I judge Marlena on the fact she couldn't tell Roman/John apart in 1986.  Drake is like 6 inches taller and had straight hair and blue eyes.  I can't help but think there were some other *physical* differences lol but obviously she didn't mind.

Edited January 2, 20223 yr by carolineg

1 hour ago, carolineg said:

See in a lot of ways he did make Marlena pay, but not John.  She was the one who was possessed for cheating on her husband (in really rare, unusual circumstances-she didn't just pick up John in a local bar).  She was the one who was alone and celibate.  Not John.  So in some ways Marlena did repent.  John just got a hot new girlfriend.  I don't think their affair was their biggest sin.  Sure it damaged Sami and Roman, but get over it.  Things happen.  The deception was with Kristen and later Roman with their weird guilt about just telling the truth.  They were/are our hero/heroine on this show and their behavior was just odd I guess.  Just own it.  You already had an affair and a child because of it.  I don't think your love is actually going to kill Roman.  Rude.  They must think very little of Roman.

I mean Deidre/Marlena deserve to be icons, but JER had her take a hard fall and she never was able to own her actions and say it is what it is. It's been completely whitewashed but yet she constantly still feels guilty about it and Belle is like 45 these days.  Of course Marlena is going to be the angel on Days.  She was long before JER.  She was always the main heroine no matter how much they pushed other characters. 

Yes!  Marlena had to suffer.  It’s not like we had a Maureen situation here, like Isabella found out and died tragically so John “paid” in similar ways.

The only consequence for John was that small period of time the Brady’s and Carrie were a little mean to him.  And his relationship with Sami was destroyed.  But Marlena paid with all those same characters and the actual devil.

Again, having recently watched the earlier part of JER’s run, his personal beliefs and demons were not as clearly on display as they later were.  The show in 1992-1994 did take time to talk about the emotional ramifications of what they did.  Although again, Marlena was the one that suffered nearly daily.

And as I finished Maison Blanche, the father John stuff is just as stupid to me as it was then.  That was the turn the show started to slowly loose me.

Edited January 2, 20223 yr by titan1978

3 minutes ago, titan1978 said:

Yes!  Marlena had to suffer.  It’s not like we had a Maureen situation here, like Isabella found out and died tragically.

The only consequence for John was that small period of time the Brady’s and Carrie were a little mean to him.  And his relationship with Sami was destroyed.  But Marlena paid with all those same characters and the actual devil.

Again, having recently watched the earlier part of JER’s run, his personal beliefs and demons were not as clearly on display as they later were.  The show in 1992-1994 did take time to talk about the emotional ramifications of what they did.  Although again, Marlena was the one that suffered nearly daily.

And again is Sami that much of a loss to John?  I love her but she's a pain in the ass.  Yeah, he had sex with your mom and it ruined your family of 5 mins, but John/RoJohn legit saved you from being an orphan when your mom and dad "died", so calm the eff down.

Sami has been harping on this for 30 years now.  And her and John still have an adorable relationship when allowed (like this week when they were all cute)

Although, I might be mean, but I sorta would have loved for Isabella to have been alive to see the John/Marlena affair.  She annoyed me to no end.  She's better in re-watch, but I still think it would have been funny.  Her pestering RoJohn about their baby and their future annoyed me.  Way to make things about you!!! You were part of the affair catalyst Isabella!!!

This is the post-aremid scene I was talking about with J/M.  What the hell is wrong with these two?  Not normal BFF behavior.  "It feels so good to hold you in my arms again?"  And it takes two years for them to actually reunite?  I must have been really distracted by Sonny/Brenda's Alley Scene or lily blowing up on GH to continue watching this regularly.  Also way to cock block Mike lol.  Not storyline related but ED's eyebrows are very dark and distracting.

 

Edited January 2, 20223 yr by carolineg

On 1/1/2022 at 9:28 PM, carolineg said:

This is the post-aremid scene I was talking about with J/M.  What the hell is wrong with these two?  Not normal BFF behavior.  "It feels so good to hold you in my arms again?"  And it takes two years for them to actually reunite?

 

See that's the stuff I'm talking about.

Everyone was irredeemable except J&M to Reilly. He allowed a separate moral code where they could emotionally cheat, sometimes physically cheat and gaslight themselves/others but it didn't matter because only their pain was justified.

Edited April 3, 20232 yr by KLN