What kind of changes did she want for Joey? He sounded like the typical, good, highschool boyfriend to me. Hence, why I think Tammy was unsatisfied...

Joey only did "Romeo and Juliet" for Tammy, and he really wasn't into it. I think she wished that he could understand her love for it like Edmund did. Edmund also just came off as more refined and delicate. Actually, it's kind of akin (not majorly but slightly) to the whole Tammy-Sandy-Jonathan thing if I have to buy that Tammy didn't want good guy Sandy. Edmund was the "good" (which, yes, was odd considering the past but Tammy has a tendency to be naive and insecure even though she overly optimistic) and Joey wasn't up to par.

Now my bias may be showing, but I don't think its fair to compare Tammy's past relationship to her current one with Jonathan in terms of depth because the other ones weren't given the focus. I think to say that they have a deep love because they get the most screen time then any other time that Tammy has been on the show is very unfair to past pairings. It's obvious that Jonathan is to Kreizman what Jeffrey was to Weston.

I also don't think that Joey's departure was part of Kreizman and Wheeler's original plan. I may very well be wrong, but I got the impression that when they hired John Driscoll, when they had no plans of hiring Coop at that time, made me think that things were changed a bit. However, that's purely speculation on my part.

I actually agree with you on this one to an extent. Had Sandy & Tammy dealt more with all these problems, they might have been more interesting. But I've seen the clips where Tammy was trying to stop her from hooking up with JB and the chemistry was just not there.

Well, I can also agree to an extent. I loved the idea of Sandy and Tammy early on, but there wasn't much chemistry. I remember the time that Sandy and Tammy danced after Tammy was harassed by JB's friends and it was one of the most awkward moments I had ever seen. However, I thought Tammy and Sandy's rooftop date was one of the most romantic moments that Kreizman has ever pulled off.

I'm soo glad this is not what happened!

As long as I wouldn't have had to endure the bland Danny and Marina pairing, than I would definitely have been for Marina and Jonathan. Mandy Bruno has proven herself on a few occassions, but Marina has been a waste since Shayne went to Bosnia. Marina's histories with Reva's son, pseudo son, and long lost son would have definitely been entertaining.

About what?

I thought the reason Tammy bought into the girl wearing Sandy's earrings was mainly because Sandy was constantly evading questions about his past, which resulted in the reveal that Sandy was once married to Ava. In a typical, Jonathan's trying to pull a con someone sees through it. When he set up Reva to find Sandy threatening him on the roof, Sandy was able to easily talk it out. When Jonathan played Josh against Reva, Josh was also able to talk his way out. Jonathan is a smart, but the writers typically had allowed everyone else to be smarter.

Yeah, I admit, I'm a tad biased. But then again, sometimes you get a sense of how strong a couple is just by reading about them. I don't need to see Victor & Nikki or Bo & Hope everyday to know they are strong couples. How long were Tammy & Joey together? One of the staples of a soap couple is that they get through all the obstacles no matter what...obviously, this didn't happen with Tammy & Joey. Tammy quickly forgot about Joey..and I guess you can blame this on the writing if you want.

Because of my bias, I'd blame it on the writers. As I said above though, I do wonder if things were altered when they hired John Driscoll (which I think was the first in a line of mediocre characters that have been brought onto the screen). Joey and Tammy went to the prom together in June 2003, which was Joey's first appearance and then Joey left town in September 2004. In that time they were apart from June to September 2004 because of Lizzie's manipulation but they had found each other again.

Do I think that Tammy and Joey were the be all end all couple? No, but they could have been if that was the direction the powers that be wanted. Tammy was willing to forgive Joey's infidelity, but it was Joey who brushed her aside because Phillip was holding the mortage over his head. To me, that's a typical staple of a strong soap couple, even if I don't care for it.

"As I said above though, I do wonder if things were altered when they hired John Driscoll (which I think was the first in a line of mediocre characters that have been brought onto the screen)."

The sad thing is that IMO John Driscoll could be good given a meatier story and a more talented screen partner. To be brutally honest, I think Driscoll's a better actor than Pelphrey (ducks). Sure he doesn't chew up the scenary, but he appears confident and natural in his scenes, especially with his family. I would like to see if he could perform well in other stories, but they haven't given him the chance. Besides. I'm always partial to actors who do their research and actually know more about their character than the writers.

"No, I'm not. But I think it says a lot when she's eyeing her uncle when she's supposedly already with the guy she loves."

Eww. I hated that. The Edmund/Tammy flirtation and kiss was like the pre-qual to Jammy.

Oh, gotta agree with you on that. I remember when Danny & Marina were starting, a lot of people were becoming fans but when I finally started watching GL, I thought "What's so great about these two?" I think Mandy Bruno is great at comedy but I have yet to see her nail a dramatic scene.

Jonathan didn't find out until October when he forced Ava to spill what her connection to Sandy was.

*Throws rotten tomatoes at Dan* I don't think you can really compare the two. Coop is soo different from Jonathan. He's the nice, normal guy who had a good upbringing while Jonathan is the anger-prone troublemaker who had a horrible childhood. I think JD is a really good actor and surprisingly, I don't hate Coop like I hate most good guys on soaps..usually, those types of characters come off judgemental yet boring as h-ll. However, his character is edging on the dull side and I wish the writers would do something to make him a bit more interesting...like maybe have Coop find out that Quinn & Lizzie have been playing friends with benefits and utter a threat to that loser...just something!

As for Tom Pelphrey...I've never gotten why some people think he overracts. Jonathan overracts...that's what the script and character are calling for. It wouldn't make sense if TP played his character subtly (sp?) And I think that's what makes his more subtle moments (which he has had) even more noticeable..I'd probably think the same way if JD gets an "over-the-top" scene in the future (which I really hope he does). It's like Scott Bailey...I thought he was awful when I started watching the show. Playing the typical good guy does NOTHING for him but when he plays psycho and taunts Jonathan, I actually enjoy what he's able to bring to the character...okay, maybe that's a bad example as SB is not able to nail different aspects of a character...

Me, too. But are you saying that the writers know more about Jonathan than TP? I highly doubt that the writers would have gone done Tammy/Jonathan Part II had TP and SG not played up the sexual tension in scenes they weren't supposed to play that way.

And I don't want to turn this into a John Driscoll vs Tom Pelphrey debate but lately, the writing has clearly shown what Coop's motivations are concerning Ava and Lizzie.

"*Throws rotten tomatoes at Dan* "

Hey now. What kind of tomatoes are you throwing there pal? Throw some of those little cherry tomatoes, I always love them.

"I don't think you can really compare the two."

Eh. I wasn't necessarily comparing the two as much as I was lamenting that the two actors came on board at the same time. It just has seemed like Driscoll has been stuck under Pelphrey's shadow.

"like I hate most good guys on soaps..usually, those types of characters come off judgemental yet boring as h-ll."

For me, I really think it depends on the motivation of the character. If they have a good reason to be bitchy and judgemental, so they aren't doing it just for the hell of it, than I'm fine. Take Frank. His daughter is getting close with his former rival, and Marina's almost dad. I think he has a right to complain.

"It's like Scott Bailey...I thought he was awful when I started watching the show. Playing the typical good guy does NOTHING for him but when he plays psycho and taunts Jonathan, I actually enjoy what he's able to bring to the character...okay, maybe that's a bad example as SB is not able to nail different aspects of a character..."

Bwahaha... But you gotta admit, he is funny when he's angry. When you mentioned his angry scene yesterday, I just HAD to listen to it on the podcast and have a chuckle or two. However, with Sandy, I almost feel guilty blaming it all on the actor because the writers have NEVER had a firm grasp on his character.

"But are you saying that the writers know more about Jonathan than TP?"

Nah, wasn't a comparison. However, I think Driscoll got a few bonus points with me by saying in an interview that there should have been some sparks between Buzz and Coop, considering Coop (and his brother) were shipped off to Merry ol' England for a few years... Alas, Davey K forgot that...

"the writing has clearly shown what Coop's motivations are concerning Ava and Lizzie."

Perhaps, but take a look at his screen partners LOL... Never thought I'd miss Hunt.

There's a different between being hypocritical and judgemental (for the right reasons). What I hate more is someone looking down on someone else when they've done horrible things themselves that haven't been acknowledged or dealt with. Oh, and I like Frank..I would find it unbelievable if he didn't hate the idea of A-M and Marina together. And as much as I whine about Cassie being a hypocrite, I can see why she's so determined to break Tammy & Jonathan up and so I don't completely hate her for it.

That's why I prefer SB in the psycho role over the good guy role. He's hilarious when he throws his fits and he I love how his voice goes all funny creepy when he's threatening someone or trying to scare them. I blame it on the actor, though..true, the writers have never really bothered to explain why Sandy does what he does but SB has given reasons behind Sandy's motivations that made me go . He always seems to explain Sandy's outbursts towards Jonathan as being more about loving and protecting Tammy rather than what it really looks like: him being obsessed about bring Jonathan down.

I thought CH was great in the bratty role and I kinda got why Coop still wanted to work things out with Lizzie even during CH's last month on the show. With MR, she really overracts the prissiness factor and it was already a little hard to believe why someone like Coop would be with someone so spoiled. But then again, I've seen odd pairings in real life where I couldn't figure out why a nice guy would still go out with someone who was completely obnoxious and stuck-up.