Members VirginiaHamilton Posted January 22, 2013 Members Share Posted January 22, 2013 One who isn't hypocritical enough to lambast a group of people for engaging in behavior that he's participated in, starters. It'd also make quite a difference if said message was delivered with the true intent of helping people instead of speaking down to them in an attempt to make themselves feel superior. While I can't speak at length about Boy George's outlook on LGBT youth (as I am not a part of that community and don't feel that I've got more to offer than just surface opinions), I can say that Dr. Cosby's insistence that we follow his tenets in order to prove white folks wrong only serves to hurt the Black community in the end. As I've said before, having a Eurocentric name and being 'socially acceptable' is hardly a shield against for the racist double-standards that I and other Negroes have dealt with for centuries. The effect that the current unemployment crisis has had on us in this country is proof of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Wales2004 Posted January 22, 2013 Members Share Posted January 22, 2013 Thank the Oakland, CA school teachers who felt equating American born children with children who were freshly immigrated from Mexico made all the sense in the world. Yes, let's pretend that black students needed an ESL (English as a second language) because they cannot speak English. So kids who were born here speak some unique language that not all the black children speak and is not associated with any African nation but it's a black thing. That's another example of what's wrong with education in America--some of the teachers are not that smart. California makes it easy to get teaching credentials though, or at least they did. I am unsure whether that's been rectified yet. As for the other can of worms, I don't like the word but unfortunately it appears in movies and even songs I may like. I don't object to it when it's used in literature or in films which refer to particular times in history. I don't see any reason why a present day movie has to be laced with it. That said, it's none of my business what people want to call themselves. As long as those people who swim in the word don't expect everyone to get hysterical if someone white says it or even calls them back. Look if some crusty old white man calls Kanye West or Jay-Z what they call themselves, what's that to me? Slavery is like some sort of go word. History is important but it is history and not present day. It shouldn't be the reason that people claim they cannot get ahead today as this makes no sense. No slaves are alive as far as I know nor are any of the slave masters. It's unfair and unrealistic to try to make people who had nothing to do with it, feel guilty over it or pay for it. Those people who think it's right to do that should ask themselves whether they would want to be held responsible if their mother or father caused a car accident that resulted in a large monetary judgment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members All My Shadows Posted January 22, 2013 Members Share Posted January 22, 2013 I swear, nothing burns me up more than this sentiment. Slavery didn't exist in a vacuum, where once it ended up and all those involved with it were gone, its ramifications ceased to be. Cause, effect, cause, effect, cause, effect. Life is a cycle, things happen because other things happened first. Do you believe that we are living with no effects of slavery in today's society? The simple fact that we are even having this discussion is evidence to the contrary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeeeDee Posted January 22, 2013 Members Share Posted January 22, 2013 WTF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Wales2004 Posted January 23, 2013 Members Share Posted January 23, 2013 Basically I don't see slavery as a reason that a kid should score poorly on a test. I don't see it as a reason for anyone not getting ahead today, as I said before. If it didn't stop men like Frederick Douglass or Booker T. Washington then it should not stop anyone today---particularly since today they were not slaves and those two actually had more to overcome. I can technically make a cause and effect for anything and go back as far as I want to do it, including the Revolutionary War. If this that and the other hadn't happened, then this that and the other wouldn't have happened either. I'm personally not living with any effects of slavery. And since I believe that slavery predates racism then my participation in this thread is not related to slavery either. And since I don't have anything more to add to this thread, I shall take my leave. All the Best to You. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eric83 Posted January 23, 2013 Members Share Posted January 23, 2013 +1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alphanguy74 Posted January 23, 2013 Members Share Posted January 23, 2013 Suprised to see another person of color that is not a whiny victim? I'm not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eric83 Posted January 23, 2013 Members Share Posted January 23, 2013 Wow. I am not even going to have THAT conversation with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members VirginiaHamilton Posted January 24, 2013 Members Share Posted January 24, 2013 I find it funny (not really) how Dr. Cosby disregards the very real factor of bigotry that affects the progress of our community by choosing to lambast us, considering that he was at the receiving end of said bigotry during the height of his prominence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members quartermainefan Posted January 24, 2013 Members Share Posted January 24, 2013 And despite that he managed to construct proper sentences in english, thus validating one of his points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Roman Posted January 24, 2013 Members Share Posted January 24, 2013 The way I have always seen it, those who have gotten mad at what he said maybe the very people he's talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members VirginiaHamilton Posted January 24, 2013 Members Share Posted January 24, 2013 At yet, at the end of the day, having a command of the English language won't exempt him or any other Negro from the racism in this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alphanguy74 Posted January 24, 2013 Members Share Posted January 24, 2013 It doesn't exempt everyone immediately, but it moves the perception of the community forward, hence the reason we have a black 2 term president today, something that nobody would have dreamed of in the 50's. And backsilding on education and the ability to speak properly will do nothing but hold back progress. All for what? Exactly what purpose does ebonics serve? Is it THAT important to people that they are willing to give up complete acceptance by society in the future for it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members quartermainefan Posted January 24, 2013 Members Share Posted January 24, 2013 You're moving the topic around. He said "why do these kids speak in a way that they sound like idiots?" (paraphrase) It was said here "Yes, but systemic racism prevents children of color from attaining full command of English, and as someone who experienced racism at the height of its sway over society, he should know this". So then I said "Yes, and the fact he manages to construct simple sentences like 'where are you?' rather than 'where you be at?' goes a long way to proving one of his points." So now you say "Fine, but there is still racism and he will still be prejudiced against, so what differences does it make how he speaks? " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Wales2004 Posted January 26, 2013 Members Share Posted January 26, 2013 I am supposed to be done with this thread as I was certain I had nothing else to say but then I looked back and saw what you posted. You reminded me of how unfocused I was. The thing that I should have said is that the whole message of addressing the disparity in education got completely lost in the attacks on Bill Cosby. I believe that he cares. He is part of that generation that practiced the village raising the child. It probably frustrates him, as well as others, to see how far away from that we've all strayed and the results. As you pointed out, he grew up in a time where the advantages that are available to today's youth were non-existent and he learned as did others in similar or even worse situations. Some of those elders are probably more than upset to see how opportunities they wished thay had, are wasted. How do you tell a child not to worry about learning how to read or write properly because the child is going to face discriminaton anyway? Is that a legitimate reason for a child to be placed at an even further disadvantage? It's important to recognize that not everyone is going to be able to or even want to, but why be complicit in causing the kids who want to succeed to be bullied out of reaching or attempting to realize their dreams by those who want to be roadblocks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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