Scandal: Discussion Thread

[Skin]

Yeah I need Portia gone from this show, she has no value here, and I'd rather her just be written out. Nothings come of her and I am not interested in anything she does. I guess she is supposed to be a foil to Cyrus, but I still just don't want. The focus should be on the main characters. Now Lisa Kudrow is an actress that should be on television more, such a great and multifaceted talent.

I always felt that Fitz reaction to Mellie's affair was more about his pride than any true lingering feelings he had for Mellie. It's clear that he saw Mellie as an asexual being after she had the baby, and once he realized that Mellie was giving it away to others he was indignant because he saw it as the utmost form of betrayal as his wife. From his understanding if she wasn't giving it up, the least she could do was keep her legs shut. Once Mellie said she wasn't a "sexual person" from that moment forward he no longer considered her his partner in marriage. I don't think that's love. He was upset that she was giving away something that she denied him, making him an unwitting cuckold. That's not love -- that's just pure egotism, to add further insult to injury she chose to sleep with his brother. This is why I can never see Mellie and Fitz as a true pairing, their relationship is a fabrication, it's used solely as a prop to make them respectable to the eyes of others. They don't truly value or revere it, it's a lie and it shows on both of their sides.

I don't think Mellie even knows what love is. Her actions are just so cold in so many ways having a baby to make a scandal disappear then pushing it off on the nanny is something I could never reconcile myself with. She is so plastic and immersed in denial, pretense and fallacy that Fitz doesn't even know there is a human being in there, which is why he's surprised when she shows any kind of vulnerability, humility or humanity and takes the mask off. Fitz by contrast is a character who is more or less moved by emotions, better or worse. It's why Olivia is always able of getting a reaction out of him. Every time he is with her, we see a true reaction from him. I don't think Mellie/Fitz is going to happen, at least not at this point in the story -- Mellie would have to dethaw and go threw some real changes for Fitz to even recognize her as a human being. As it stands she's still talking about monuments, pretending and lies -- which is what she dedicates her life and truth too, which is something Fitz runs away from like a bat out of hell. Mellie is the most interesting character on Scandal but she is also the most insular and self-contained. She's a prop and that is what makes her so pitiable when she throws her tantrums, she's pathetic for making herself so miserable for the scraps and crumbs she receives.

I think the real story here is the triangle between Fitz/Olivia/Jake. That's where I think the story is going at this point. Maybe it's wrong to go there (not really sure at this point, have to look further into it). I think Fitz's focus on Olivia makes sense given his character, she is the only thing he knows is true or real to him, how he feels about her and how he loves her. His fixation, obsession and immersion into her all makes sense to me. Olivia is a bit harder, she can't put her life on hold for him indefinitely. Jake can't continue on as an interloper, after two seasons that's going to get tiring.

[Angela]

Olitz needs a REAL break off for a while, regardless of how Mellie does or doesn't play into that. Their obsession with each other has made them ehh (or worst) together and individually at this point and a break-off could fix that. They still haven't had that. I'm not advocating Mellie and Fitz to any strong degree because I like the dynamic between Fitz and Mellie as is, and I think Mellie accepting (and giving) love in a more open way would change the core of her character and I don't think I would want that.

Skin, we'll agree to disagree on Mellie and Mellie and Fitz.

IMO, the flashbacks to the beginning of Mellie and Mellie and Fitz did show a young couple VERY happy together and a couple that loved each other. Mellie IMO does know what love is - she just closes herself off to it. She wants it, she has it to give BUT she can't accept it and sometimes she can't give it. Would she be rusty at both sides of it? Probably. I don't think she was born that way from seeing the flashbacks and some of her warmer moments through the seasons. I think circumstances made her that way. I'm sure she was always ambitious but that's not a bad thing, that doesn't make her somebody who could not have loved ever.

The ragging on Mellie's parenting skills? Rag on it, but rag on POTUS parenting skills too. It's been of note onscreen and off that Fitz is a terrible absent parent, too. The kids seemed to be warmer to Mellie than to Fitz, too, overall. Did Mellie manipulate them too be like that? I'm sure that may have happened a little but she probably wouldn't have held that power if she didn't resonate with them in a stronger way than their father.

Re: the need for his wife not to sleep with another man (the vice-president, not his brother), whatever the reasoning anybody makes, one thing was clear -- his reaction was way too strong to it. Olivia's reaction to his last season was the accurate reaction. The scene where she asks Fitz what he needs and tells him not to make her say it OR she would never forgive him. She thought the marriage was an arranged sham of sorts and it became clear that wasn't accurate last season. He could have easily had his dream come true and Mellie out of his hair if he had backed up on that once he cooled down. I'm not saying this means Fitz loves Mellie and wants to be with her. It does mean there's unresolved things there, he was howling like a wounded animal about Mellie depriving him of their life together. I didn't bring the preceding up as an argument for M/F at all, it's as an argument to why O/F need a genuine break and time to really process things and grow individually due in part to that processing.

[Angela]

Double posting.

I was just listing to TG's (Fitz) interview in that Shondaland podcast. No spoilers as the Scandal cast never spoils. But some surprising and interesting thoughts from him:

- In TG eyes, Karen was raped. He's so hardcore and serious on that. I don't agree with him. One, she wasn't drugged or Shonda would have pointed it out, and two, the boys were probably high too.

- He says as Season 4 began that Shonda reaffirmed to him that Fitz is sort of the devil. To think of Fitz in that light (or darkness). The depth of that being everything he touches goes bad, takes a terrible turn: his father raping his wife, the plane incident, his love for Olivia killing his son, etc

- He gets pretty convoluted explaining how Fitz could believe Jake murdered Jerry. He said as an actor he has to convince himself and he's accomplished that. He goes in length about the relationship between Fitz and Rowen.

- His back story (in theory) for the suicide story thread: M/F kept Karen for a bit but then at some point decided it was best for her to go off to boarding school. W/O somebody there to have to look out for, Fitz crumbled. Olivia has left him without so much as a note, and he's left with the realization that HE is responsible for his sons death (circa his love of Olivia). As he's about to call it a day, Mellie smacks him out of it. In the aftermath of saving him, she begins to unravel. That's pretty much my theory as well.

- Mellie and Fitz? They wax poetic about the dynamic - how they can go from literally wanting to kill each other in one second, and in the next, to clearly caring for and even loving each other. They discuss the cabinet meeting scene. Both agree that the connection is very true to the core of a long-term marriage, where they each have the rocks that can fill holes in the others head.

- Olivia and Fitz? There's the realization that the Vermont dream can no longer be viewed as that light at the end of the tunnel but one of those things that he brought on that brought on destruction (the devil aspect) but he's ultimately drawn to his connection to Olivia so strongly no matter what his head says. It's a lot to deal with. His advice for Fitz on Olivia would be too hang in there although he doesn't necessarily think it's good advice.

[Skin]

I don't necessarily think Olitz needs a break-up -- I'm fine with them doing what they are doing now which is avoiding each other and having to deal with things on a case by case basis. I like that they are in this current holding pattern of not talking to each other and keeping each other at arms lengths. I think that makes sense, them not taking each other's phone calls and the like is a natural development from where they were in previous seasons. I don't think there needs to be a knock down drag out break up episode, same with having them emulate a Cold War, I don't think we really need that. Having them bump against each other and not be on the same side and have some conflict is fine, but removing each other from their respective spheres and denying their feelings for each other won't really do the narrative any collective good. Fitz and Olivia can have other storylines, without ignoring each other. Fitz's need for Olivia is pivotal to his character in my opinion. It's the way he stays connected to the world and is the only way he can do his job.

http://youtu.be/LWG4upM1rNE

As to a Mellie and Fitz's pairing again, you would have to change her core characterization, to even begin to tell that particular story -- and I think after three going on four seasons that's a bit of an unrealistic hoodwink. Mellie is a cold fish. Which is why I see Mellie as being the most interesting character on the show, but by that same token she is also the most narrowing in regards to story telling. There's only so much one can do with her, and only a few ways to really write her -- deluded, angry or victimized. Mellie at her core is all about fabrication and appearance, like a Bree Van De Kamp from Desperate Housewives but without a good amount of her versatility, general growth and eventual acceptance. Which leaves her trapped for romances and trapped in a circular story, that's interesting but also very contained -- she doesn't have much of a shelf life outside of Fitz, Olivia and/or Cyrus, in lesser hands she would be little more than a plot designated obstacle. Going back to the Mellitz relationship, again Fitz can barely tolerate her on any real level on a good day, at their best, just generally speaking. There would have to be a big shift to really create something there again after it being dead for what 15 years? It's a lot to undo. If the death of a child doesn't do it. I do think it's realistic anything else could. I am just continually reminded of multiples scenes where Fitz can't be bothered to give a rats ass about anything Mellie does. From her events, to her interviews, to her flitting around in the white house gushing over presents from the Queen and Fitz ignores her and couldn't care less or even worse, stuff like this where Fitz is horrified that this is what Mellie thinks and believes is what a real marriage is supposed to be:

http://youtu.be/I1XTtrW5WPE

As to Mellie's parenting jab's -- that wasn't really my main focus. Fitz can be painted as a bad dad, as well. I am not arguing over their parenting skills. That wasn't really the point. My point it was more or less just to show how systematically broken Mellie is as a person.That she uses her pregnancy as a playing chip for re-election. She sees her children as political pieces to make her (and by extension Fitz look good). Not even Nancy from Weeds was that calculating or manipulative to pointedly conceive a child as a political maneuver to put her man in his place and kick the mistress out of her spot as Queen. Then to later brag about it by calling it America's Baby -- just no words.

In regards to the cheating thing, I'll just have to disagree, Fitz barely treats Mellie as a person so I can't see him as being upset on a personal loving level. I can't see him as really being that upset in regards to her cheating on because he still loves her in some way. I think that's gone. It seemed to me that he was mostly angry because he felt guilty being with Olivia and the entire time he didn't have to be, because she was nailing the VP. Had he known that she would do that from the get go, he wouldn't have had to put up with all of Mellie's tirades and guilt trips over Olivia the last few seasons and resulting years. All I saw from him was anger, entitlement and resentment for not being able to cut her loose long ago and now being stuck with her for another four years after her betrayal -- when she had been painting herself as a martyr previously. He's stuck with her, and the one thing he needed her to do was keep her legs closed. He used the "you took yourself away from me line" and "you killed our marriage" to drive the knife home and have her live with the fact that she destroyed their relationship, not him like she always portrayed it to be, but her. She opened the door and now she was no longer the blameless, victim and he was going to let her know it. Which I think would hurt her even more than anything else he could have said. She doesn't have the righteous indignation or the high ground anymore. She's not the perfect, right wife she painted herself as being in season two anymore

I wondered why Shondra didn't go there. It's clear that Karen wasn't in the best place for consent, and more over I never got why everyone in that episode was so gung ho about giving those extortionists 3 million dollars. When all were minors and at least one was so out of it should couldn't even stand up afterwards.

[Angela]

Again ultimately we'll have to agree to disagree on a lot of this stuff but it is fun discussing it

Most of season 3 shifted a lot of what Season 1 and 2 played. That can't be brushed under the rug for the characters or it's just not good story telling. Things that Fitz thought were true about Mellie - that made him basically hate her - shifted in a significant way (so much so that he doesn't see the power hungry ice queen as the Mellie he knows - re: Episode 5). Mellie fell apart as everything she spent so long hiding became exposed (including actual feelings). Fitz made Olivia feel like the other woman he turned to for comfort BECAUSE the wife he wanted to love him wouldn't. True or not, that's how he made her feel. For the first time, he thoroughly made HER feel like the other woman. I don't think Olivia had a understanding that their were once deep feelings there. Olivia left Fitz during the most difficult time in his life and was off having lots of fun and sex with Jake. I'm not saying put Olivia in Europe and Fitz in Mexico. I'm saying let them REALLY break-up for a bit. That doesn't mean he has to be with Mellie or she has to be with Jake. It means, get some air and stop acting the fool about your love.

Mellie wasn't screwing Andrew until real time in Season 3. She wasn't screwing him while she was freezing Fitz out during the first decade or so of their marriage. Seriously, if Fitz tirade about Mellie and Andrew was all about Mellie making him feel he was the bad guy when she was the bad guy all along THEN he should have been more than happy to let Mellie have Andrew. More off his conscience. It's not like his conscience had been stopping him from treating his wife like the other women for most of Scandal's duration.

Oh, and Mellie is one of the better written female villains/anti-heros I've seen on television. You could play her a dozen different ways on Scandal, but her character keeps the tension on a must-see level written as the snarky, bitchy boss who's more than a little bit of a neatly wrapped up mess. Without that character, IMO you lose probably the most interesting source of tension on the show - whether she's challenging Olivia & Fitz or scheming for power. I could see her running with OPA as easily as I can see her being the First Lady. Nothing throw-away there. I look forward to seeing how she turns Smelly Mellie into a mark FOR Mellie for President IN 20Whatever.

Because SR wasn't going for rape. She was going for a girl acting like a boy sometimes acts and the turn around in the way that is responded too. The story wasn't Karen was drugged. The story is Karen wanted to have fun, get high and have some sex - acting out because she missed her brother who died right in front of her.

How many times did they use screw in this episode? lol

[Money]

I totally agree with Skin that Fitz’s reaction to Mellie’s affair was an affront more to his pride than any feelings he had for her because even up this date he has never shown that he truly cares about her, at the very least as a person. I have a hard time correlating their earlier flashbacks when they were younger and supposedly in love to where they are now. It makes Fitz even more of an !@#$%^&*] given the emotional pain she suffered. She was raped by his father that resulted in her pulling away from him. All Fitz knew is that she was no longer giving it up and instead of him trying to figure out why he got angry. He accused her of being a cold fish and acted like it was her fault he cheated with other women and now Olivia. Mellie was wrong for keeping that a secret but Fitz has always been emotionally abusive to Mellie. I’m really disappointed in the fallout from her rape. After months of buildup it was used as a plot point and Andrew is nowhere to be seen.

I was appalled when Mellie started morbidly internalizing their son’s murder and instead of taking a step back realizing she truly needed psychological help, he immediately got angry and told her to pack her [!@#$%^&*] until she can become the Mellie HE recognized. That’s typical Fitz who doesn’t give a [!@#$%^&*] about Mellie unless it’s convenient to him. And it never is. I literally rolled my eyes when he said they had to stop doing “this” to each other after she accused him of being with Olivia. What was she supposed to think given every single time he’s gone AWOL he’s been screwing Olivia. Luckily For Mellie she had the fortitude to take a bath and start the healing process. She damn well knew she wasn’t going to get that support from Fitz who already bemoaned the fact he already put up with oh so much with her not bathing.

Every time we have an interrogation scene Olivia’s vagina will always be a point of discussion?

David is a bitch if one man’s suicide affected him to the point of stupor. Olivia has destroyed several lives in the name of wearing that white hat and she never gave two s.hits who she affected.

Abbie needs to realize Olivia is not her friend. Let me take that back, she’s her friend only on Olivia’s terms. The chick needs a favor and she can’t even ask nicely especially when she withheld information about their other friend two weeks ago out of sheer spite. Good for Abbie standing up for herself who should have continued to rip her a new one and then walked away. Too bad she goes back to being her lapdog next week.

I’ve always had serious issues with Olivia’s character and the way this season is going it has confirmed everything I hate about her. She’s unlikeable and she’s a bully. She uses people and in her warped sense of entitlement has always destroyed the people around her. If she actually gets held accountable for her actions, even once in a while, Scandal would be a better show.

[Soaplovers]

For me..mellie is the Addison of this show.

Not in terms of personality, but in terms of a minor character that caught on with the audience and her part being expanded.

One positive about shonda is that she can recognize when a character catches on and expands the part beyond her initial vision.

One of the other boards said they wouldn't mind seeing mellie as detective in a spin off show...after Addison was spun off in her show, I figure anything is possible.

[Angela]

They were both supposed to play the quickly disposed of wife, yes. Addison went from guest star to glorified guest star to spin-off, while, Mellie went from 3 episodes arc to very much an important element of the main cast. This show would ultimately hurt without Mellie. She's more like a Yang IMO - a crafty political surgeon who is kind of dysfunctional but who is totally fine like that. They could replace Jake and probably upgrade in the challenge to Fitz department. So, ultimately, to me Jake is the Addison in this all.

Money, I do agree with a lot of what you said to a degree.

You're right in theory, the flashbacks shows Fitz being really annoyed within a small time frame of Mellie cutting off intimacy while she is indeed clearly showing signs of trauma. It's IMO in character for him though, don't you think? He acts like a horny teenage girl that has few senses beyond having his ego stroked so he can give up his family jewels. In my stream of thought, I think Millie and Fitz both drove each other to how cold they eventually got to each other. His reactions caused her reactions to get harder and colder. His increasing lack of understanding drove her more to her thirst for power over everything else. Her reactions caused his reactions to get harder and colder. Her turning away from him not only physically but emotionally drove his thirst for chicks to make him feel like a "real man." They're not supposed to be perfect human beings and they certainly aren't but as much cruelty as there's been in the marriage, I do see some care at least since I've been watching regularly - that he has a certain pull to her, and she to him WHEN push comes to shove. It's not what it is when they were younger, it's not what he has with Olivia - but it's not nothing. It's as I said a pretty interesting dynamic that actually causes me to not to really want to see them ever fully give it another shot. Re: the oval office scene. It's Fitz, especially when Olivia is around - he don't have time, understanding or patience do deal with anything else. <-- Part of the reason O/F are ill-making and need an honest break. The thing to really pay attention to in that scene in the sense of "warmth" and "understanding," at least from him, is the response of "don't talk to me until you're the Mellie that I RECOGNIZE." Mellie basically went back to her long-term post traumatic coping form after his revelation.

Re: the Andrew fight. Looking at the argument again last night, what does come through to me is he's really, really mad that another man was able to break her resolve and that he wasn't able to. Whatever they were just before, and in the distant past before and have become since, IMO the ferocious nature of his reaction IMO is telling of their being a substantial element of regret in him for what they could have had and what they lost. It's realistic. You loved somebody probably a lot at one time, you share a family with them and "circumstances" between you both destroy it. You eventually move on but part of you wonders and even regrets the could have been element.

IMO, every single "major" relationship has issues that need to be resolved from Season 3. You don't really resolve it in a thorough way with these characters as individuals and as pairings if you keep on playing the ridiculous fantasy element of Fitz and Olivia - where they're always in a bubble of thirst for each other no matter what and whom that bubble crushes. Might as well end the show this season if that's all she wrote.

[Skin]

Mellie is not a Yang character in terms of story importance. The Addison descriptor in the realm of Grey's Anatomy is apt. At best Mellie is a Bailey/Addison figure, at worst she's a Callie or Arizona level character who plays a brief side part. It's clear that Mellie as she is for the past three seasons going on four, is a secondary character. She is not a primary or leading character in any capacity, Yang could be argued as a co-lead of the series various times within Grey's. Same with Katherine Heigl's Izzie Stevens.

I can't see that for Mellie, it's clear that Mellie's story is fed by other major players in the show. Fitz, Cyrus and Olivia are major leading characters who impact the story in Scandal and who give Mellie story to play with. The majority of her scenes involve them or involve her speaking to them and reacting to stories they play a big part in. Think about it this way, looking at the characters as they are and as they have been written who has the resources to lead an entire season focusing on their own individual story? I think of those provided only four characters really can do that in Scandal, currently. Olivia, Jake, Fitz and Cyrus.

Mellie needs other characters to make herself relevant and reference herself within the story and provide importance. She reacts to what other characters do to her and their impact on her situations is multi-fold. That's why I say Mellie is a minor, supporting, secondary character because she couldn't really provide or generate story within Scandal on her own for a real significant amount of time. She's not a power player or a mover on her own or outside limited sphere of people. Cyrus and Jake have enough power to really effect things in the shows universe and impact the show, even though they are less vital to the show than Fitz and Olivia. Mellie's power is handcuffed to her vacuous and empty position as Fitz's political wife, which means the real power lies with Fitz there, not Mellie. I don't think she could even last a half season on her on as a character, could she have the potential to do that? Maybe if the writers did something different with her. But as the writers are currently writing her, it's obvious she's not. In that way she is an Addison, Bailey, Callie, Arizona background character who chimes in when needed but is clearly not the Yang, Izzie, Meredith of the bunch who had real, lasting and impactful stories within their universes that were about them and that deepened story for those around them.

The way the show is positioning Abby (rival/successor to Olivia) seems more like a Yang/Izzie situation to me, then what is currently happening with Mellie. Abby is being groomed into coming into her own and being more important. Is she more important than Mellie now, obviously not. But she's being positioned to being a power player in this Jake situation which I think gives her more leverage and potential than Mellie currently.

I still feel like this is pride based though. Why did you give it up to him, why did he make you feel something when you wouldn't let me? This all in my opinion stems from Fitz's belief that Mellie even as his cold fish wife should be hot for him, if she is not hot for him she shouldn't be hot for anybody. Is this a form of jealousy? Maybe but I think it's more important to view it as a character study of Fitz and his belief in being a "Man", Fitz has issues with needing to control the women in his life and needing to provide and supply his duties. This circles back to his conversation with Olivia in the Oval Office, "Am I a failure as a President, father, lover and man?" This probably goes back to Big Jerry but it's in line with Fitz's cave man reaction to Olivia sleeping with Jake, his daughter losing her virginity to two high school boys in a degrading sex tape, not being able to protect and Shepard his son and failing as a man.

I don't think it's love that's in his reaction. He views Mellie as being a part of his failure as a man to not provide for her sexually as she denied him, and then had someone replace him when she initially told him that she wasn't sexual anymore and shamed and guilted him over his affair with Olivia. That's the real kernel of betrayal and hypocrisy there -- which he as admittedly disgusted by. He views Mellie's sexual identity, as part of his property as her husband especially because it's in name only. This circles back to Mellie's understanding of this with her daughter, saying it's not fair but you are going to have to keep your legs closed. Mellie can't be happy, because of her image as the First Lady. I think I went over why he was angry, I think with valid reason there. He more or less has to be shackled with Mellie at that point, he will not be humiliated by her under his own roof in addition to that where people may laugh and snicker at his position in his marriage. Which is again pride based in my opinion and tied to his belief in how he should be the most powerful man, as he is the President.

Fitz may care and/or tolerate Mellie, but I haven't seen any kind of love there even post season three.

[Angela]

It's a very small cast of characters - all of their stories feed off of each other rather intimately. You remove most any piece of the puzzle and it's made weaker. Saying Mellie is barely a secondary character? My eyes rolled onto the floor for 5 minutes, lol ;b In Season One? Probably. Season Three? The show was arguably centered around Mellie as much as it was centered around the lead, Olivia. Mellie is a strong supporting character. Sometimes the supporting characters are as essential if not more essential than the leads, that's why IMO it's usually the really tough category at any awards show.

In reality, you can get rid of any character from this show if you want it to last as long as GA. Fitz won't be president for three terms. IJS.

Yang's status was very ebb and flow during the seasons - sure she had story lines but a lot of times she was just there for Meredith to play off - the definition of barely a secondary character (read: not even a supporting character). Yang stole the show the last 2-3 seasons before her exit. I'm probably actually referring to the years that Yang stole the show when I do the comparison. I mean that the presence is strong and she can do in 3-5 minutes what some of the other characters can't do in a dozen. Will Mellie's Season Four be less active than her Season Three? Maybe, Three was an Emmy bait (for BY) season (doing great with a lot), Four is more of a scene stealer season (doing a lot with a little).

This last paragraph basically makes the point that Fitz is a one dimensional p---k. I'm not going to argue that isn't accurate, lol.

I don't see how he can be disgusted by the "betrayal and hypocrisy" of an affair his wife took on after years of him having affairs and making it clear he's done with her EVEN if she made it clear his affairs were bugging her from time to time and dare to annoy his sexual bliss. She did answer the question of how long. It's now, it wasn't then. He's shackled to that marriage because he chooses power. He's shackled to that marriage because he don't want "his property" pieces shacking up with other people.

I don't think Mellie or Fitz are in love with each other - although I do think they once were in love - but I do think they have love for each other. They also have hate and disgust for each other, of course. I think Fitz is obsessed with Olivia. I think Olivia is hopelessly love sick over Fitz. Jake on Olivia - love sick. Olivia thinks Jake is a cute distraction. I think Mellie is sick of Fitz being full of chit - with the side of care and just not wanting to lose what she helped build at a great price - all Ring The Alarm, lol. I actually don't see how this marriage continues from Mellie's standpoint - I would think Mellie would want to destroy Fitz with the force of a nuclear bomb when she really processes the true reason her son was murdered (and pieces together that everything is still all about Olivia despite that - going after the wrong man, etc).

[Skin]

Yes, but Mellie's part in the cast is very small in scope. I mean honestly there have been multiple episodes where Cyrus, Olivia and Fitz have real important conversations and Mellie isn't even apart of the discussion. She's the much of an after though. That's what I mean when I say her importance is diminished continually on the show. Mellie's actual role within Scandal is quite narrow. She's mother or jilted wife and that's the summation of her importance and both of those roles are defined by her marriage to Fitz. I again make the point that there were times in seasons 1 and 2 where Mellie's role was so small that you could delete her scenes and little would have been missed, she established a somewhat larger role in seasons 3, due to KW's pregnancy, but not enough to displace a lot of the status quo in my opinion. I think Jake has more power and impact in story than Mellie does.

What stories has Mellie really led? I guess you could say she led the Scandal story where she gave Fitz an ultimatum, but even then she is again reacting to Fitz and that's the blood source and energy battery to all of her stories. Cut out Fitz and Mellie doesn't exist or provide value to the show in any real way. We could say that she led the story where she was raped by Big Jerry, but that story amounted to very little story surrounding her and her own personal journey. It was used to soften Fitz around her, who is a central character. Even the angry, mistress wife betrayal stories are her referencing Olivia's storylines, and Mellie barely gets breath in those because those scenes are filmed to highlight Olivia's journey and trials of the heart. That's not a leading character, that's not a co-lead either. At best it's supporting (Bailey/Addison level supporting where we get to see their view point but they rarely actively engage in or impact story). Mellie is often sidelined when real stories are happening.

By comparison, Yang over multiple seasons had her own stories where she was highlighted and the star of. The story she had with Preston Burke not being able to operate and doing all his surgeries for him, the story where she stopped practicing medicine after the shooting, the eptopic pregnancy, the abortion, Owen's infidelity, her relationship with a badly damaged pstd army veteran, her marriage/wedding to Burke, These were major stories that were in league with all of Meredith's issues and all of Meredith's stories and were given the same attention and detail as the leading actress. Her stories were important. What mattered to Yang was important, other characters made choices and decisions based on Yang's own actions and individual story.

Yang could be argued as a co-lead in seasons 2, 3, 5 , 7, 8, 9 and 10. Same with Izzie, who was very much a leading actress from seasons 2-5. All of their stories utilized and involved the cast at least as much as Meredith's did, who is the leading character on the show. Obviously the actresses picked the Supporting Emmy category because Ellen is the actress the show centers on, but Izzie and Yang effected the canvas just as much as Meredith did -- there were multiple times when Meredith was supporting both Izzie and Yang, just as much as they supported her during their leading stories.

That's one of the reasons why I find Mellie to be so pitiable. Why does she stay after all the unhappiness she has gone threw? Why does she keep hurting herself like this? This relationship is abusive, does she really value her image and potential political career so much that she would be willing to engage in this suffocating relationship indefinitely? Or does she really think this is love? Either way it's just too sad to contemplate. She should have freed herself long ago -- but I think some aspect of this is her dream, I think some part of her likes that she is First Lady, so she will continue on with it until the ride is over. That's what makes her so interesting.

[Angela]

For me, in terms of significance, you are describing Abby's role Season 1-3 more than you're describing Mellie's role. Jake IMO only true value is the female audience is hot for him - he's one of the least unique and independent characters on the show otherwise. As I said earlier, you could bring in Actor B, C and D and have them play the same business. Ultimately, I'll leave it at I disagree.

It'll be interesting to see how or if they can keep Fitz & Mellie married this season. There's going to have to be a moment of realization for Mellie with how much all the actors and SR herself put the death of the kid on Fitz choices. Although Mellie kind of reverted on Thursday, I feel like the last ordeal may have changed her level of toleration. I do get why Mellie stays in a way. It's all she feels she has to show for everything. The empire she helped create and maintain. She was raped. She got pregnant after that rape and had to raise a child that for all she knew was the child of her rapist. She turned parts of herself off to cope and in turn lost her husband. A little part of her probably blames herself for what Fitz is and that's why she hasn't entirely let Fitz fry when push comes to shove.

[Angela]

I don't believe this is the article I initially read on the writing style but it's an article that affirms that I did read it somewhere.

[Skin]

Cyrus is annoying me, it's not Abby's fault that Cyrus banged a prostitute who exposed all of his secrets. Maybe he should stop soliciting sex from golddiggers. He should be stripped of his position for that negligence.

Olivia seeing Jake would be smart.

So tired of that Republicunt blonde.

[Angela]

Except for scenes (acting) here and there that have popped, this really feels like a lackluster final season. Most of the stories so far are just weak and that's describing the stories more nicely than they should be described. Surprised it's not showing in the ratings, yet, but it's going to catch up with them if it keeps up like this.

I enjoyed Bitsy but didn't really care for fitting in another fake president. Their were enough cheating bastard Presidents to work in something more clever without leaving the reality box that completely.

What was the point of the assassin story?

So, somebody else is obsessed with Olivia's coochie? Yawn.

There is really no excitement in catching Papa Pope and giving him his comeuppance because all these characters involved in doing that care about is Olivia's coochie. What murdered kid?

Does SR dislike Fitz? This whole episode was about pointing out how and showing how pathetic he is from all ends. Even more than usual. While it's cool that she's doing that to a male character and not a female character, he's one of the two leads of her show and making him both an airhead and unappealing is weird. Olivia giving him the time of the day doesn't do much for her either. This story is IMO definitely improving Jake's characterization. He's better softer.

I think I've pretty much given up hope on this half of the season but I shall try to hold out hope for the second half of the season.