18 minutes ago, carolineg said:

Well, there are a lot of good things I can say about JER.  I loved the way he wrote John/Marlena.  I loved his events.

But pacing was never his strong suit.  Everything lasted forever when a few clear conversations would have changed the entire story.  It did dumb everyone down.  

Although I do still love the era.

I have really fond memories of and feelings for that era, even though I can now clearly see its drawbacks and failings. But I disagree about pacing, to some degree. I thought JER did an excellent job of building and sustaining suspense. The particulars usually turned out to be dumb or, uh, credulity-stretching, but I thought the overall long-term nature of the show worked and it's something I DEARLY miss today. 

35 minutes ago, Lye-C said:

Personally I loved how Gothic the show became under Reilly. He was also great at writing romances, payoffs, and pacing. Carrie and Austin are my favorite couple because of him. The original Gina story was compelling as hell. I also loved when characters would talk to themselves. Those were the days! 
 

Heck, I can still quote certain dialogue to this day, like when Laura told Kristen “the only thing you’ve given birth to is deception!” We need that heightened, stylized dialogue back.
 

Now the show moves far too quickly, the dialogue is terrible, there’s no romance or compelling couples, and no exciting stories. The last good one was the possession sequel. 
 

I had hoped that MarDar were going to be JER 3.0. They were his protégés from his first run and Passions.  Marlene replied to my tweet and told me JER was her mentor. Sadly, the show we got was nothing like JER. The day-to-day writing was good and felt like classic Days but the stories were not there. John and Marlena’s big comeback story is a Bernie Madoff knock-off? Sooo boring! And to this day they still don’t know EJ framed him for embezzlement. And don’t even get me started on how they used the vile Rafe to come between Carrie and Austin and completely wasted Patrick Muldoon!

I went on a bit of a tangent there, lol 

Definitely agree about the tone and the dialogue. It's weird to be getting stories currently that have most of the same trappings -- the masks (which I'm sick of), fake deaths, etc. -- but the dialogue and production kind of feels... humdrum. And while they occasionally still hit it, it often feels like they're trying to emulate that specific tone and it misses. 

Don't get me wrong (and I know you won't agree with me here): I like a lot of the more down-to-earth stuff we've gotten in the years since JER, and there's plenty I appreciate about 2006-present. But there were hallmarks of his writing that I think did work well and don't get the credit they should because of the over-the-top trappings. I actually think, at its absolute core, JER's pacing is very classic soap!

I never had that hope for MarDar, for whatever reason, and I'm kinda glad because I thought their year absolutely sucked. It was the epitome of "good on paper and terrible in execution."

1 minute ago, Donna L. Bridges said:

Well, I am pretty sure Reilly himself wanted to extend, although he didn't really write more story, he just used a great deal of repetition, almost like they were doing scenes on a loop, if you can imagine that. 

I never heard it was JER himself, but NBC.  I could absolutely be wrong, but he didn't have much more material to extend it.

1 minute ago, Michael said:

I have really fond memories of and feelings for that era, even though I can now clearly see its drawbacks and failings. But I disagree about pacing, to some degree. I thought JER did an excellent job of building and sustaining suspense. The particulars usually turned out to be dumb or, uh, credulity-stretching, but I thought the overall long-term nature of the show worked and it's something I DEARLY miss today. 

 

I can see your point.   I just felt day to day a lot of the dialogue got very stale and the show would build up to a climax that just wouldn't happen unless it was sweeps.  

2 minutes ago, carolineg said:

I never heard it was JER himself, but NBC.  I could absolutely be wrong, but he didn't have much more material to extend it.

Okay that I heard it was his choice could also be wrong. Someone was I think being indulgent & made a seat of the pants decision to just slap on some more months! Because it was definitely initially set to finish at Easter & they went much longer & it was not a good idea. It would have been stronger on the original timetable. 

7 minutes ago, carolineg said:

I can see your point.   I just felt day to day a lot of the dialogue got very stale and the show would build up to a climax that just wouldn't happen unless it was sweeps.  

Oh, totally. That's where I think the execution could have been much stronger. By his 2000s run and the latter half of Passions, the dialogue was legitimately a parody. 

10 minutes ago, Michael said:

I actually think, at its absolute core, JER's pacing is very classic soap!

I'm pretty sure that it was with Reilly that a day lasted like 2 weeks. There's nothing classic about being so out of proportion with time. Aristotle would plotz! 

I don't agree that his writing ever was elevated enough to call it parody. 

Edited February 10, 20241 yr by Donna L. Bridges

6 minutes ago, Donna L. Bridges said:

Okay that I heard it was his choice could also be wrong. Someone was I think being indulgent & made a seat of the pants decision to just slap on some more months! Because it was definitely initially set to finish at Easter & they went much longer & it was not a good idea. It would have been stronger on the original timetable. 

I really don't know, but I remember literal flashback episodes of the entirety of the Possession happening regularly.  I don't actually think it was JER's choice and I do think it went on a bit too long.  John was carrying "dead" Marlena in the streets in the rain for like two full episodes😂

4 minutes ago, Michael said:

Oh, totally. That's where I think the execution could have been much stronger. By his 2000s run and the latter half of Passions, the dialogue was legitimately a parody. 

The 90's dialogue on Days wasn't exactly a parody but it went like this:

Carrie- "I think Sami is up to something"

Marlena-"I think Kristen is lying"

And various versions of these same conversations over and over.  But I can't tell John/Austin because they would be heartbroken or some other nonsense.

@carolineg  Yes, flashbacks during the Possession "Extended" became amazing. Bill Bell would have tut-tutted about padding so much in a show. 

2 minutes ago, Donna L. Bridges said:

@carolineg  Yes, flashbacks during the Possession "Extended" became amazing. Bill Bell would have tut-tutted about padding so much in a show. 

But, again, I don't like the Possession story so some of my memory may be tainted.  I just remember extra padding and then we finally moved on to Aremid which is probably my favorite JER story.

7 hours ago, carolineg said:

I never heard it was JER himself, but NBC.  I could absolutely be wrong, but he didn't have much more material to extend it.

I can see your point.   I just felt day to day a lot of the dialogue got very stale and the show would build up to a climax that just wouldn't happen unless it was sweeps.  

Fair enough but some of the biggest payoffs didn’t happen in a sweeps month (Graceland wedding was June, Carrie exposing Sami was September, Hope/Gina was July/August).

The longer the wait, the more satisfying the payoff, IMHO. 
 

One of Passions’ biggest stories went on for almost eight years and wasn’t resolved until the final episode. The payoff was worth it to me but of course YMMV. 

7 hours ago, Donna L. Bridges said:

I'm pretty sure that it was with Reilly that a day lasted like 2 weeks. There's nothing classic about being so out of proportion with time. Aristotle would plotz! 

I don't agree that his writing ever was elevated enough to call it parody. 

Hard disagree. Soaps work best when days go on for weeks and weeks. One time a Passions day lasted for three months. It was wonderful!

The possession was supposed to wrap up in May 1995 but was extended to July 1995 because of the high ratings. Remember, because of the possession, Days was the only soap going up against OJ that increased in ratings. 

7 hours ago, Michael said:

Oh, totally. That's where I think the execution could have been much stronger. By his 2000s run and the latter half of Passions, the dialogue was legitimately a parody. 

Another hard disagree. Marlena’s “time of death: any minute now!” as she poisoned Tony is one of the all-time greats! 

8 hours ago, carolineg said:

Well, there are a lot of good things I can say about JER.  I loved the way he wrote John/Marlena.  I loved his events.

But pacing was never his strong suit.  Everything lasted forever when a few clear conversations would have changed the entire story.  It did dumb everyone down.  

Although I do still love the era.

Personally that’s what I loved about it. I never found the men dumb, just earnest, particularly Austin and John. 
 

Aremid was great and I’m surprised it’s never been revisited like JER’s other classics.

Out of interest (and apologies if this is the wrong thread to ask this), does anyone know what the original plan for the Marlena serial killer storyline was supposed to be?

I recall JER or Corday giving an interview where it was stated that there were supposed to be 4 stages to the whole storyline with it culminating in a courtroom trial. Am I remembering this correctly? Wasn't there also supposed to be something about mirrors related to the plot as to why Marlena was doing the killings?

27 minutes ago, daysgoby said:

Out of interest (and apologies if this is the wrong thread to ask this), does anyone know what the original plan for the Marlena serial killer storyline was supposed to be?

I recall JER or Corday giving an interview where it was stated that there were supposed to be 4 stages to the whole storyline with it culminating in a courtroom trial. Am I remembering this correctly? Wasn't there also supposed to be something about mirrors related to the plot as to why Marlena was doing the killings?

Yes he did say that about the stages and the trial. The killer (Marlena) was going to be executed. 
 

As far as I know the details of the original plan have never fully been revealed.

Edited February 10, 20241 yr by Lye-C

3 minutes ago, Lye-C said:

Yes he did say that about the states and the trial. The killer (Marlena) was going to be executed. 
 

As far as I know the details of the original plan have never fully been revealed.

Thank you.

14 minutes ago, daysgoby said:

Thank you.

You’re welcome. Here’s some more info from another thread:

 

https://boards.soapoperanetwork.com/topic/65879-all-errors-myths-omissions-firsts-that-werent/?do=findComment&comment=1896034

6 minutes ago, Lye-C said:

You’re welcome. Here’s some more info from another thread:

https://boards.soapoperanetwork.com/topic/65879-all-errors-myths-omissions-firsts-that-werent/?do=findComment&comment=1896034

Just an FYI to you. If you'd hit quote & then put this link in it, the post would open up in a sort of box in the post you're making. Pretty nifty. 

12 minutes ago, Lye-C said:

You’re welcome. Here’s some more info from another thread:

 

https://boards.soapoperanetwork.com/topic/65879-all-errors-myths-omissions-firsts-that-werent/?do=findComment&comment=1896034

 

4 minutes ago, Donna L. Bridges said:

Just an FYI to you. If you'd hit quote & then put this link in it, the post would open up in a sort of box in the post you're making. Pretty nifty. 

Thank you for the tip! 

28 minutes ago, daysgoby said:

Thank you.