HBO: Game of Thrones

[DRW50]

I saw someone saying that was the first time they'd seen book Shae on TV. Do you agree with that?

I couldn't tell whether she was forced or if she was sticking the knife in.

I do think Dinklage did a terrific job with all that raw pain, and I hope we are saying goodbye to put-upon Tyrion and seeing a harder edge from now on. I do agree it was rushed.

That Jaime/Tywin scene was a little odd for me. Jaime just seems incredibly naive, if not stupid. I don't know if he was sheltered from the true nature of his family or if this is supposed to show the "new" him, but it's tough to buy.

Happy we'll get to see more of Selyse next week.

[ThePrinceOfSunspear]

She was a chameleon that's for sure...the problem with we saw today is that it's hard to decipher what intentions they wanted us to imply from that scene. Overall though I do think that was the first time we've seen book Shae. She's a ruthless, cold hearted b*tch who didn't give a flying fig about Tyrion and really only pretended to all this time.

On top of that Tyrion KNEW all this time. Again not to b*tch about the books but in the books you know that Tyrion is well aware of the fact that Shae is a whore. That she couldn't possibly love him. He keeps trying to tell himself that over and over again but doesn't do what's necessary to get rid of her. Until its too late....

The Tywin/Jaime scene was also weird....and seemed so random. I understand Tywin's motives and why he would so readily agree to it but I find it weird that Jaime would naively agree to it.

Edited May 12, 2014 by ThePrinceOfSunspear

[DRW50]

Please register in order to view this content

[quartermainefan]

I saw this as completely the opposite. Jaime knows that Tywin sees the supreme failure of the Lannisters being Jaime not having sons and claiming his role as Lannister In Chief. Jaime knew this is what Tywin wants more than anything and therefore he had that to bargain with. Tywin said yes without a moment of hesitation, and how could he back out of the deal? If Tywin would have Tyrion killed Jaime would not assume his position at Casterly Rock, the very thing Tywin needs for the Lannisters to carry on.

Tywin's own manipulations tanked the deal (or whoever it was that told Shae what to say) and now I guess the Jaime option is off the table. I do find the whole trial by combat sort of ludicrous. You may or may not be guilty but if you win this fight you go free. And if I had to guess, Tyrion will choose Jaime as his champion, or perhaps the new Prince from Dorn. Cersei could scheme to get her fiancee to battle Tyrion's champion in the hope he gets killed. As her fiancee it would be expected he would fight on her behalf.

Edited May 12, 2014 by quartermainefan

[DRW50]

I see what you're saying. I was mostly talking about how his "How dare you!" type attitude. It just seemed silly to me.

[Vee]

I just really don't think the show is trying to get people "hot and bothered" over Ramsay Snow. I didn't see that tonight. Yes, he's a physically attractive man, yes, he is a man of excess, like a lot of other horrible (or not so horrible) people on the show - he likes sex. His having a sex scene is not an indication that the show intends for a sadistic psychopath - which is how they've presented him as onscreen, even subverting his sexuality by pairing it with vicious violence in the same scene - to be presented as an object of adoration. And just because he may have fans who treat him as such does not mean the show specifically engineered them, or that they're responsible for them. Virtually any character on any popular show on television has those fans, whether they're 'good' or 'evil' characters. It's unavoidable and in this instance I don't think GOT is expected to be held responsible for anyone who lusts after Rheon or Ramsay Snow, anymore than any show has fans of any horrible villain. You can't let art be dictated by an audience, but you also can't let your potential expectation of an audience mold the art.

I also don't think that showing torture is the same as "torture porn", but that's a whole other thesis.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Vee

[DRW50]

I wasn't talking about his fans (I realize I do talk about fan reactions with many of the characters), more the show itself. Monstrous people have sex, I realize that, but in a years-long story about sexual degradation and torture, I don't get a lot out of seeing him hump and pump, especially when this is intercut with Yara talking about her brother's torture. I know the show has a certain quota to fill regarding female nudity, but I thought the Davos/pirate scene did that well enough.

[Vee]

I think it was more to show his depravity - he seemed to get off on being choked and manhandled. And it fulfilled HBO's usual quota.

[DRW50]

I can see what you mean.

I think what bothers me is we had so little time with Yara or her reactions. I keep seeing people say she just abandoned her brother because she was scared of dogs, because she didn't care enough. I think they were trying to say she'd given up because Theon is truly dead, there's no going back, but her POV was so underwritten and it made her look like she was just sort of hitting the road. I wish we'd had more of this and less of...the other scenes in that story.

I do think Alfie Allen did an excellent job.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/game-thrones-director-bathtub-scene-703135

[Vee]

Yara's really a supporting player at best on the show. I did like seeing her, though. I don't think she gave up because she was scared, and I don't think most people think that either. It was an impossible situation; it's not that Theon is dead so much as she could not have gotten out of there alive with him. That was a gripping moment - I thought it might have been curtains for her then and there.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Vee

[Vee]

I loved tonight - I was glad they took it back to some of the quieter stories. The Theon/Ramsay stuff was disturbingly homoerotic; they walked the line but didn't go over it, because they didn't have to - the implication was enough. As I said, I thought Yara was going to get torn apart then and there. I can't say I'm surprised she gave up on him so fast. She may be the best of the Ironborn (that is, aside from the Theon that once was) but they're all kind of crazy white trash to me. I can't imagine where that story will go next but I find it fascinating.

Loved everything with Mark Gatiss at the Iron Bank. Loved Davos's great pitch, loved the return of Salladhor Saan. He's the best. I can't imagine where Stannis thinks he'll get the manpower for this gambit, though.

Daenerys is learning the same lesson little Bran had to learn when he took his turn having to rule Winterfell in Robb's stead - I was glad she did the right thing for the noble, as opposed to the most myopically self-righteous thing, which would've given her a little thrill but would have had no point. I actually find it fascinating watching her learn to rule, in a chair - something we have been told again and again many others did not know how to do, and something a little boy took to quicker than her. But she's getting there. Interesting to see the Small Council finally taking more notice of her, though not enough IMO. And the Varys/Oberyn scene was so wonderful - IMO Varys is really the quieter soul of the show, along with a number of others.

GOT has many elements of soap in it, but there ain't nothin' soapier than a big crazy trial. And that was big and crazy and very satisfying. I almost knew Tyrion was going to invoke trial by combat - almost, but not quite, there was a hint of something in the back of my mind, nagging at me, a hunch, but I couldn't figure out what - and then, boom! Well, it beats Tywin's otherwise shrewd plan. And I loved Tyrion's Jennifer Holliday speech. Great show. Did I miss anything?

[Vee]

Because they know it on the TV show. Not the book.

Also, it's not Book Shae. TV Shae was clearly in love with Tyrion and heartbroken and vengeful. I am tired of her period, but it's not like she was dropping the mask.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Vee

[DRW50]

I forgot to say that I was glad to hear Varys talk about being asexual (and I don't think it was just because he's a eunuch). It was nicely handled. You don't get that on TV very often.

[DRW50]

Please register in order to view this content

http://www.makinggameofthrones.com/production-diary/2014/5/9/interview-with-nikolaj-coster-waldau

[ThePrinceOfSunspear]

Yeah that Theon/Ramsay scene was one step away from becoming gay fantasy porn or something. They have way too good chemistry.