3 minutes ago, DeeVee said:

Sometimes the Alan/Alex dynamic was very well done, but I think they resorted to them being almost cartoonishly antagonistic too many times.

Strangely, I never really bought Ed and Mike as brothers. Or maybe it's not so strange, since Mike stole Ed's wife. 

I think Chris and Beverlee were fantastic. But there are times it's hard to buy that there's anything other than hate between Alan and Alex. It's Alex six months of helping to kick Alan out of Spaulding, and turning around and saying she loves him. Like HUH? 

It's odd--maybe it's just that there's not a lot of their earlier relationship between Ed and Mike to see, but I completely agree---there doesn't seem to be a lot of affection there. And when you add Hillary in, I don't buy them as caring about each other very much at all. 

43 minutes ago, P.J. said:

I think Chris and Beverlee were fantastic.

They were, and when they had good material to play it was sublime to watch them. I think they could have done the love/hate thing well if it wasn't mostly done for the plot purposes.

43 minutes ago, P.J. said:

And when you add Hillary in, I don't buy them as caring about each other very much at all. 

There were times when I forgot she's a Bauer. Yeah, she was Bill's secret child and didn't grow up with them, so it kind of makes sense. But she was boring and irrelevant most of the time. Of all the characters that got the axe when Kobe took over, her exit bothered me the least, even though technically she was a core family member. 

How could I forget Ross and Justin? Jerry and Tom were very believable as brothers. They loved each other, they annoyed each other, they fought, they made up and helped each other. Definitely a real "big brother trying to keep his little brother from making similar mistakes" vibe between them.

Edited September 19Sep 19 by DeeVee

@DeeVeei wish there were more if Ross and Justin up to watch.  Theres stuff up around Diane's murder, and Carrie and Phillip, but it's not very much. 

Hilary should not have been killed. Send her out of town , leaving room for a recast and return.

On 9/16/2025 at 9:42 PM, DeeVee said:

There was one remaining unseen female Reardon sibling, so they definitely could have done that. 

I would think that was the direction they were going but knowing this crew maybe it was another clone. I would love to see Parker playing a tough as nails sister of Mo.  I can see Van side eyeing her and everyone in town coming to her with their troubles and her not giving a damn..."These people are really screwed up!"  I would love to have someone just tell Dinah to quit her whining! They could have set it up months in advance with Chelle finding a pic and thinking its Mo...Nola could say, "On not that's your Aunt Lana and while she resembles your mom she is nothing like her. " The character could befriend Abby in jail, come to town iwth her, and Chele is drawn to her and she reluctantly takes her under her wing. First she thinks she is going to play these people who think  she is St. Mo, but then her inner Reardon comes out. 

46 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

Hilary should not have been killed. Send her out of town , leaving room for a recast and return.

I agree. With the right actress and a writer interested in giving her some good material play, she could have helped to revive the Bauers.

It seems to me Pam Long tried to make Hillary a more prominent character. Marland had turned her into a rather sanctimonious side character. Long put her in a love triangle with Jim and Fletcher, but it belly flopped.

Then I think the BTS story goes that Kobe got mad at Clark because she went to Hollywood for pilot season, making it necessary to pre-tape a lot of her scenes. So the character was killed off. Like killing off Lujack, it was a very short-sighted decision. 

Edited September 19Sep 19 by DeeVee

No shade to Marsha Clark (well, maybe a little) but Hilary wasn't the most glamorous cast member. She worked as a nurse/friend/loser in love but not a gal 2 'hunks' would be fighting over.

Kind of got a Subaru driving, jeans/plaid shirt vibe from Hilary...

7 minutes ago, Mitch64 said:

They could have set it up months in advance with Chelle finding a pic and thinking its Mo...Nola could say, "On not that's your Aunt Lana and while she resembles your mom she is nothing like her. " The character could befriend Abby in jail, come to town iwth her, and Chele is drawn to her and she reluctantly takes her under her wing. First she thinks she is going to play these people who think  she is St. Mo, but then her inner Reardon comes out.

Oooh...oooh...and they still could have given her a past with Alan. Like the reason she's so tough is because the Spauldings screwed up her life. And even though Mo's dead, she never stopped being jealous that Mo got the kind of life she could have had if it wasn't for those rotten Spauldings. Maybe she would pursue both Ed and Alan with a mind for revenge.

SO many possibilities. I bet Ellen would have had a blast playing a bad girl.

On 9/17/2025 at 6:23 PM, GL Oldtimer said:

@MLH, can you direct me to that forum? I would be interested in reading what was said about the tribute. The situation with Michael Zaslow breaks my heart to this day. 

Thank you.

Annette

This is the old forum I found Search Conversations

There are so few places to find old posts to really get a feel of how viewers thought of things.  Plus, this was like the very beginning of online forums.  Michael passed away before we really got a feel of viewers thoughts on storylines!

@kalbir  You are welcome!

BTW, has anyone used a third party website to translate a YouTube video that doesn't have closed captioning?  I am thinking of trying it. 

There have been so many times the show tries to make a character work and it fall flat like with the lady that worked for Ross, Suzanne Deveraux. I never bought her shoehorned storyline working for Roger (as well as being his lover).  Talk about NO chemistry with either Roger or Ross.  

Edited September 19Sep 19 by MLH

4 hours ago, DeeVee said:

Oooh...oooh...and they still could have given her a past with Alan. Like the reason she's so tough is because the Spauldings screwed up her life. And even though Mo's dead, she never stopped being jealous that Mo got the kind of life she could have had if it wasn't for those rotten Spauldings. Maybe she would pursue both Ed and Alan with a mind for revenge.

SO many possibilities. I bet Ellen would have had a blast playing a bad girl.

That would be so much fun..and yes, Parker would have a grand time of it...(but be able to channel her inner warmth so we see she will be redeemed and it won't come out of nowhere.) Lana puts on the faux Mo and only Van is suspicious (and she resents Van's silver spoon..."Nola is right, you are nothing but an uptight b*tch!")   I would not have her be "bad" but tough and able to adapt to circumstances to survive ("Everyone wants me to be my Saint of a sister, I will give them that until I can get out of town") I would have her in prison as she killed her abusive husband so Abby and she relate and she is protective of Abby and she begins to be so over Chelle. So she starts to consider making a life in SF. A past with Alan would be good, and she could have his kid (much better then that dumb nun.) Maybe the abusive husband knew about the kid and wants to sell the info to Alan leading to their argument when she accidentally pushes him down the stairs.

Having her face off with Carmen would be great..."Look, you don't scare me Cruella...leave my niece alone..you're not the only one who knows how to use a gun." 

Edited September 19Sep 19 by Mitch64

8 hours ago, MLH said:

This is the old forum I found Search Conversations

There are so few places to find old posts to really get a feel of how viewers thought of things.  Plus, this was like the very beginning of online forums.  Michael passed away before we really got a feel of viewers thoughts on storylines!

@kalbir  You are welcome!

BTW, has anyone used a third party website to translate a YouTube video that doesn't have closed captioning?  I am thinking of trying it. 

There have been so many times the show tries to make a character work and it fall flat like with the lady that worked for Ross, Suzanne Deveraux. I never bought her shoehorned storyline working for Roger (as well as being his lover).  Talk about NO chemistry with either Roger or Ross.  

@MLH, Thank you so much for the link! It's a treasure trove. I'm certainly going to enjoy reading what people had to say. 

Annette

13 hours ago, DeeVee said:

 

It seems to me Pam Long tried to make Hillary a more prominent character. Marland had turned her into a rather sanctimonious side character. Long put her in a love triangle with Jim and Fletcher, but it belly flopped.

I don't think anyone could've sold a triangle with Jim and Fletch. Oy... It's not like they didn't try and hook Hil up---she had an immense crush on Kelly that went nowhere, she flirted with Josh, she had a relationship with Derek and then Jim and Fletch. And there's a little something with Tony.

If they hadn't killed her off, she might've been able to come in and fill that void after Mo's death.

12 hours ago, MLH said:

There have been so many times the show tries to make a character work and it fall flat like with the lady that worked for Ross, Suzanne Deveraux. I never bought her shoehorned storyline working for Roger (as well as being his lover).  Talk about NO chemistry with either Roger or Ross.  

I don't think Suzanne was ever meant to be more than a short term character. They tried much harder to make Johnny and Calla work, giving them families, etc. with mixed results. I'm not sure Suzanne even got a reason for working with Roger, other than the plot necessitated it.

1 hour ago, P.J. said:

It's not like they didn't try and hook Hil up---she had an immense crush on Kelly that went nowhere, she flirted with Josh, she had a relationship with Derek and then Jim and Fletch. And there's a little something with Tony.

The thing is, none of those flirtations went anywhere, and I think that was intentional. Kelly was always destined to be in a triangle with Morgan and Nola, Josh flirted with anything in a skirt, the Tony thing went nowhere. Even the Derek relationship was mainly filler. She never got an actual story. The closest was her being Roger's lover while he was married to Holly.

The Derek actor (I forget his name now) apparently was popular with the audience.  People were upset when he was written out. So maybe if Marland had done something with them other than having Hillary constantly going back and forth about the relationship, it might have gone somewhere. 

The thing about the Marland era was that he had a lot of characters--Vanessa, Tony, Josh, Hillary, Trish--not really in a focused storyline or in a real love story. Pam Long corrected a lot of that. In Hillary's case it didn't work out, but she at least tried, and she had some big successes, like Van and Billy and Josh and Reva.

 

11 hours ago, DeeVee said:

The thing is, none of those flirtations went anywhere, and I think that was intentional. Kelly was always destined to be in a triangle with Morgan and Nola, Josh flirted with anything in a skirt, the Tony thing went nowhere. Even the Derek relationship was mainly filler. She never got an actual story. The closest was her being Roger's lover while he was married to Holly.

The Derek actor (I forget his name now) apparently was popular with the audience.  People were upset when he was written out. So maybe if Marland had done something with them other than having Hillary constantly going back and forth about the relationship, it might have gone somewhere. 

The thing about the Marland era was that he had a lot of characters--Vanessa, Tony, Josh, Hillary, Trish--not really in a focused storyline or in a real love story. Pam Long corrected a lot of that. In Hillary's case it didn't work out, but she at least tried, and she had some big successes, like Van and Billy and Josh and Reva.

 

Harley Venton. 

Your criticism of Marland's era is valid, but otoh, those characters are free to cross in multiple ways. Van and Josh are backbiting each other at Spaulding, hanging at Wired for Sound, and causing waves for others (Josh causes problems for Kelly/Morgan and screws Carrie; Van is constantly interfering in Henry's search for Quint and trying to rope Tony). Tony has his family, gets some adventure with Quint and is flirting (and more) with plenty of women. 

While Long gives all of them love stories, (and I feel especially by that point, Vanessa really needed one)  everyone ended up islanded. Tony and Annabelle can't generate story after Barbados, Josh slips into the void of Reva, and there's been plenty of criticism of Van's neutering. Hill and Leslie Ann end up dead, and Trish's romance with Ross stalls inexplicably. 

Obviously, no one bats a thousand. But I also feel that under Long, Spaulding and Cedars lose some of their prominence in Springfield. 

 

And just to circle back to the lack of friendships in Springfield, the only friend I ever recall Josh having in his entire run (outside of Billy and Van) is Will Jeffries, who wants to kill him. LOL.

Edited September 20Sep 20 by P.J.