4 hours ago, GL95 said:

I am now into 1993 and watched the Maureen death/mourning episodes and again coming back to add to the Melissa Hayden love. With some of the best actors on the show all onscreen mourning (Maeve/MG/Zas/RH) she was the standout and the one who really drove the emotional fallout. I wanted to give her a hug through my TV from 30 years in the future. No one else really made me cry but I was heartbroken for Bridget.

Watching that whole Ed/Lillian plot line unfold, I hadn't realized just what a slow moving trainwreck that affair was. Ed is just terrible. Lillian is at least lonely and deluded that there's something real there, but Ed just seems to sleep with her because he wants to? (Though writing that letter and just delivering it that way is a monumentally dumb thing to do, and you almost have to believe she wants it discovered by Maureen. But Michelle could've been the one to see it just as easily?).

Conversely, I am also up to the Mindy return with the super dud Mindy recast whose name I am too lazy to look up. It's wild because the entire cast is absolutely bringing it and....she's there. Walking into Nick's place to find him in bed with Eve. I do love the soap thing of people having absolutely zero boundaries and thinking the best way to see an ex months after they left them at the altar is to walk into their home unannounced in the dead of the night. I mean, wouldn't a Lewis be raised to shoot someone who did that? Billy definitely would.

Harley/Mallet are trying to figure out what happened to Buzz after discovering he's not on the Vietnam War memorial wall. (They pan to Harley touching the 1959 wall and I am going to just say it's a random wall she was drawn to and not where she was looking to not completely lose my sanity with the timelines. I mean, in no world would Buzz be 34 at the time of his return.) It's a very odd story right now actually knowing what happens when Frank waxes poetic about how amazing his father was.

I started this loopback in June 1990 when AM is first released from his kidnapping and is going on and on to Blake about how the baby was the only thing getting him through the torture when we know there never was a baby. Then right before he finds out about Maureen's accident he apologized to Vanessa and showed real remorse for his past actions, talking about nearly dying when he was shot and how all he could think about was Eleni/the baby. He of course deserves what's coming having switched out the birth control, but it's a different viewing experience knowing what's coming. I definitely feel I've gone full circle on this stretch of episodes. (It's pretty crazy how AM never has a kid given how consistently he wanted one-he's referring to the future grandfathers right before he marries Lucy. But maybe the thought of the future grandfathers made Lucy/AM have second thoughts down the line.)

Oh this has me so excited to watch this era!

I still can't believe the writers had A-M and Marina pair up, even if it was years later. That's just... not ok.

22 minutes ago, DeeVee said:

One of my pet peeves! Phillip produced the only Spaulding grandchildren (until the Gus retcon, as you said). Not having AM or Amanda have children (or for that matter, Nick) was crazy.

Since they had Alan so consistent over the years about favoring Phillip over AM and Amanda, I don't think bloodlines mattered to him. But flip it--AM and/or Amanda angry that Alan favored Phillip's children over theirs--now there's a character-driven story.

I don't like that simply because there were few enough Bauers as it is. Bad enough they had Mike and Hope disappear never having had anymore children, and made Ed uninterested in having more children.

If they had kept AM around, probably he would have eventually had a kid--and like most male soap characters obsessed with having children, he would immediately have forgotten he had one. (Sorry, another one of my pet peeves).

I really can’t get over Blake not having a kid with any Spaulding, but Blake/AM having a kid even if they’re not together just has so many possibilities that develop pretty organically.

Otherwise my preferred scenario for an AM kid is a disappeared at sea AM rather than being saved by Zachary, leaving Lucy pregnant and sparing us the Michael Dietz recast. (Have AM call home and Amanda tells him Lucy died so he stays away or something.) Alan only loves AM when he’s in peril, so Alan thinking he’s dead will make him love AM far more than he ever did alive which would drive Phillip nuts to come in second to a ghost. Lucy moves into the Bauer house because she doesn’t want to deal with the Cooper/Spaulding feud, and Rick tries to make himself a candidate for raising the baby but just ad he gets his hopes up AM returns. Rick Hearst comes back for two weeks just in time for the kids’ birth and he and Lucy move to San Cristobal where’s been holed up.

Edited 18 hours ago18 hr by GL95

7 hours ago, P.J. said:

Honestly, the entire Eve arc sucks. I don't think Kimberly Simms could've made it work either. There's no chem between Irizarry and Edson, the story itself falls flat, making it hard (or next to impossible) to like or even empathize with Eve. They simply should've shipped her off after she tried to kill Mindy, and let Nick/Mindy deal with their issues (or not, I was not fond of them) and moved on.

Yeah, the storyline wasn't good - and I'm a fan of both Hilary Edson and Eve. I'm convinced that this storyline was the one that suffered most from Beverlee's departure, as it was clear that a Mindy/Nick/Eve triangle was on the way, with Alex pulling the strings. When Eve was introduced in May 1992, there was no indication that Simms and McKinsey were going to be leaving.

No matter what, the problem is that a Mindy/Nick/Eve triangle was not the right direction. Mindy/Nick were played out (and, unlike yourself, I very much enjoyed their pairing).

Eve improved when paired with Ed.

Edson surprised me with her acting ability at the point when Eve started to realize that she was going nuts. Her portrayal of self-actualization was excellent, way above what I expected. The crying jag scene at the lighthouse? Nah.

Lujack with a kid is an idea I like - but it would have to be with Darcy, in real time. (Imagine Darcy versus Alex? - LOL.) Not with Beth.

Oh- and if Lujack/Darcy had a kid, you'd probably have to have Darcy get killed off saving Alexandra's life or something noble. And the kid would be raised by Lujack/Beth yet turn out to be a Darcy clone. And give Grandma Lillian the time of her life.

That said, in the meantime, Darcy mouthing off at Alex all the time would be fun.

11 hours ago, P.J. said:

It think it was supposed to be about Ed needing to feel needed. Lillian needed him. Maureen was off working (GASP!) and not there to bolster his ego morning, noon and night. But Ed just comes off as a monumental jerk, who really would simply banish Lillian to Timbuktu if he'd had his way, and grow morose keeping his secret.

This is why Ed was never a viable character, much less as a patriarch, which was the family and the town needed at that time. Not because he screwed up as I like my patriarchs with an edge (look at H.B.) But he never seemed to take responsibility for it, or any remorse. This is why they missed a big opp when Nola returns, in my view I wou ld have her be best selling novelist of adventure/romances, the kind people eat up but are embarrassed to say they love, who comes to town to change her writing style and do maybe an article on Mo (and also our of guilt for not being around for years and intent on "fixing the family" in a weird Nola way) and starts to interview people and sees something strange when people talk about her death. Van of course tells her to just focus on Mos life or forget about it all togehter, which makes Nola more intent then ever to do it. Anyway, she discovers the truth and confronts Lillian but more importantly Ed, leading him to show remorse, guilt and take responsiblity for the whole thing. Then they can do the Ed/Lillan scene at the grave that they did near the end of the show, that some smart writer put was responsible for (and Wheeler actually let air.)

Having a patriarch with feet of clay is fine, if they take responsibility for it, and I never saw that with Ed. PS to his credit when he returned seem to play that regret and trying to do right by his family.

2 hours ago, Mitch64 said:

This is why Ed was never a viable character, much less as a patriarch, which was the family and the town needed at that time. Not because he screwed up as I like my patriarchs with an edge (look at H.B.) But he never seemed to take responsibility for it, or any remorse. This is why they missed a big opp when Nola returns, in my view I wou ld have her be best selling novelist of adventure/romances, the kind people eat up but are embarrassed to say they love, who comes to town to change her writing style and do maybe an article on Mo (and also our of guilt for not being around for years and intent on "fixing the family" in a weird Nola way) and starts to interview people and sees something strange when people talk about her death. Van of course tells her to just focus on Mos life or forget about it all togehter, which makes Nola more intent then ever to do it. Anyway, she discovers the truth and confronts Lillian but more importantly Ed, leading him to show remorse, guilt and take responsiblity for the whole thing. Then they can do the Ed/Lillan scene at the grave that they did near the end of the show, that some smart writer put was responsible for (and Wheeler actually let air.)

Having a patriarch with feet of clay is fine, if they take responsibility for it, and I never saw that with Ed. PS to his credit when he returned seem to play that regret and trying to do right by his family.

And it’s human to have your own blind spots, but basically right before the emotional affair with Lillian begins Ed is chastising AM for leading Blake on and being insensitive and he just turns around and does the same thing but even has an affair with minimal resistance on his end. It’s sort of remarkable how you really don’t feel that much for him with Maureen dying. (Watching Eve be one of Lillian’s only confidants is very strange knowing what’s coming.)

Even him saying in fact he’s glad Rick can’t be reached since Rick can see through him is a pretty monstrously selfish thought. God forbid he be made to feel bad.

1 hour ago, GL95 said:

And it’s human to have your own blind spots, but basically right before the emotional affair with Lillian begins Ed is chastising AM for leading Blake on and being insensitive and he just turns around and does the same thing but even has an affair with minimal resistance on his end. It’s sort of remarkable how you really don’t feel that much for him with Maureen dying. (Watching Eve be one of Lillian’s only confidants is very strange knowing what’s coming.)

Even him saying in fact he’s glad Rick can’t be reached since Rick can see through him is a pretty monstrously selfish thought. God forbid he be made to feel bad.

That's why I think they needed to revisit it...Van having to deal with her hidden anger at Ed (she never let him have it) Rick finding out and angry (Mo was the only Mom he knew) and brining up old issues of having an alcholic dad who was not stable...did Bridget know? I would have Ed start to turn to the bottle again..the only person who could really prop him up would be Holly, I would use that as a lead to them being involve again...( I think MG and PS had good friendship chem, but that is okay,) and Lillian being angry that she had to take the blame (I would want a showdown between Lil and Nola where Nola gets to slap her!) Did Roger know? I would love for Roger to throw that in his face, and maybe be the one to deliver the news to Nola..."You know what your brother in law, the good upstanding pillar of town was up to while you were gone?"

Edited 3 hours ago3 hr by Mitch64

10 hours ago, Speed Racer said:

Yeah, the storyline wasn't good - and I'm a fan of both Hilary Edson and Eve. I'm convinced that this storyline was the one that suffered most from Beverlee's departure, as it was clear that a Mindy/Nick/Eve triangle was on the way, with Alex pulling the strings. When Eve was introduced in May 1992, there was no indication that Simms and McKinsey were going to be leaving.

No matter what, the problem is that a Mindy/Nick/Eve triangle was not the right direction. Mindy/Nick were played out (and, unlike yourself, I very much enjoyed their pairing).

Eve improved when paired with Ed.

Edson surprised me with her acting ability at the point when Eve started to realize that she was going nuts. Her portrayal of self-actualization was excellent, way above what I expected. The crying jag scene at the lighthouse? Nah.

I think Simms had announced her leaving right after Eve was introduced so the show had to quickly write her out.

Based on the final episodes with Beverlee playing Alex, it did seem as though Alex had a come to Jesus moment about letting her hatred of Mindy/Roger affect all aspects of her life expressing regret over losing Fletcher and now her son Nick. I remember her final scenes with Nick where she was leaving to give him space and that she would be back once he let her know he was ready to talk to her again.

The one story I think really got affected when Beverlee left other than Nick/Mindy/Eve was the Jenna taking over Spaulding story. I recall a few scenes of Jenna acting opposite Beverlee's Alex and there was no love lost so I have a feeling that had Beverlee not left.. she would have played a big part in the Jenna taking over Spaulding story and would have probably blamed A-M and used this as a tactic for her to manipulate Nick to work for Spaulding Enterprises, etc.

In regards to Eve, I do recall that she even mentioned to Ed about his affair with Lillian as a way to get him off her back when she was gaslighting Mindy. Oddly I liked Ed/Eve together.. they were both wounded and full of remorse over the mistakes made by both in their lives.. and it took Eve about two years to regain the truth of Springfield over her actions.

Edited 1 hour ago1 hr by Soaplovers