I get that he broke his contract but Nelson has chosen to tell the world that he broke his contract for a very specific reason. As I stated above, if you take the kiss angle out of this, Engen's behavior could easily be explained by depression or substance abuse.

Easily explained??? Whatever the reason, drugs, homophobia, depression, being generally a douche - he's the biggest loser i've read about in a long time. There's no excuse for what he did. People accross this country are STRUGGLING to make ends meeet and he quits a 6-figure job cause he's unhappy. How many people hate their jobs yet do it every day, thankful that they have one. there is NO justification or VALID explanation for doing what he did.

Ouch!!

To think he refused to kiss Yani....shakes head

I feel bad for Yanni (well i felt bad for him in the first place cause he's named Yanni, but..) - he's being exposed to all this drama that he has nothing to do with. Ruxton, you should call him up and give a hug!

ETA - Yanni had no clue Rafe was gay when he signed on to play Rafe. There's an actor!

Edited May 23, 200916 yr by Cashton

I don't know if agree Cashton. I don't know if Engen had a "valid" reason but if he's happier off the show (knowing the cost to his career), then he made the right decision for himself. Money is important and so is job security but there are other things that drive people. Some people can be happy with very little money. What is valuable to one person is not always valuable to another. Now don't get me wrong -- money matters to me! I have met quite a few people though who don't care that they don't have any.

Yanni is gorgeous. There are plenty of men and women who would be happy to kiss him.

Edited May 23, 200916 yr by cara mia

Easily explained??? Whatever the reason, drugs, homophobia, depression, being generally a douche - he's the biggest loser i've read about in a long time. There's no excuse for what he did. People accross this country are STRUGGLING to make ends meeet and he quits a 6-figure job cause he's unhappy. How many people hate their jobs yet do it every day, thankful that they have one. there is NO justification or VALID explanation for doing what he did.

I live in a far grayer world than you do, I guess. So be it.

Regardless, my point was and is that Nelson shouldn't be the author of this story. He is a wholly unreliable source. That's all I really want: a better source. I wouldn't trust Branco to tell me that kittens are cute.

I feel bad for Yanni (well i felt bad for him in the first place cause he's named Yanni, but..) - he's being exposed to all this drama that he has nothing to do with. Ruxton, you should call him up and give a hug!

ETA - Yanni had no clue Rafe was gay when he signed on to play Rafe. There's an actor!

Yeah, I feel bad for Yanni too. I like his name it is unique. ..I'd love to give Yanni a hug. Do you have his number?

All I know again is that we still don't know for sure that he actually walked off. There is still too much to the story and considering Y&R's recent past with tough negotiations with Jess Walton and Melody Thomas Scott and firing Adrianne Leon over weight issues - how do we not know that they planned all this from the get go. If that is all the case then Engen may not be able to speak because he is working to sue the Bells and Sony.

There is too much to the story not know to condemn someone.

I don't believe anything that comes out anymore and over the last few years I am learning more and more and more that it comes down to there are two sides to every story. And we are not hearing but what they want us to hear at this point.

And another thing I am quickly learning is that no matter what it is fans take the side of the person they like. And this time people are looking at the perception that Engen didn't want to kiss a guy and going with it whether it is true or not. When it was Jess Walton against Y&R - the Y&R backstage folks were dogs and Walton was the angel even though it was reported she refused to go to work.

It is ridiculous the two facedness that comes into it all. And sorry if that offends.

I don't know what the story is but I am not going to sit on a message board and slander a person's reputation when I don't know the whole story.

Edited May 24, 200916 yr by DeliaIrisFan

I live in a far grayer world than you do, I guess. So be it.

Regardless, my point was and is that Nelson shouldn't be the author of this story. He is a wholly unreliable source. That's all I really want: a better source. I wouldn't trust Branco to tell me that kittens are cute.

Nelson is one tool (i know you like that description!) of his downfall but the blame lies with him. And if it gives my perspective any more enlightment to you - I'm an actor so this rings many chords in me as you can imagine. The Adam Wilson part is one of the best in daytime and he throws it away. I, too, hope he's happy with his decision and that he's happier away from Hollywood. I think we can both agree he shouldn't have pursued daytime television with his issues - whatever they may be.

All I know again is that we still don't know for sure that he actually walked off. There is still too much to the story and considering Y&R's recent past with tough negotiations with Jess Walton and Melody Thomas Scott and firing Adrianne Leon over weight issues - how do we not know that they planned all this from the get go. If that is all the case then Engen may not be able to speak because he is working to sue the Bells and Sony.

There is too much to the story not know to condemn someone.

I don't believe anything that comes out anymore and over the last few years I am learning more and more and more that it comes down to there are two sides to every story. And we are not hearing but what they want us to hear at this point.

And another thing I am quickly learning is that no matter what it is fans take the side of the person they like. And this time people are looking at the perception that Engen didn't want to kiss a guy and going with it whether it is true or not. When it was Jess Walton against Y&R - the Y&R backstage folks were dogs and Walton was the angel even though it was reported she refused to go to work.

It is ridiculous the two facedness that comes into it all. And sorry if that offends.

I don't know what the story is but I am not going to sit on a message board and slander a person's reputation when I don't know the whole story.

The difference is Jess Walton wanted to work! She wanted a contract. Engen bolted because he didn't want to be on the show. There is a major difference between the two. I highly doubt Engen is suing Bells and Sony. He messed up and knows it! Either that or doesnt give two s h i t s.

Edited May 23, 200916 yr by Ruxton Hills

I have to say, that although we don't REALLY know what went down, the fact that Engen has not made any kind of effort to publically defend himself makes him look guilty of being a spoiled brat, homophobe....etc. I fhe truly felt he had GOOD reason to break his contract, then it would be imperative for his career to go public with this "reason". I'm glad that we have someone now who is excited by the role, MOST actors in fact, are quite tantalized at the thought of playing a villian.... I just don't get what Engen's problem is.

As Cara Mia said, I really think right now his hands are legally tied. He has to keep his mouth shut until he finds out if his *ss is going to be sued into poverty, and until he finds out if cannot work again till this contract expires (which is probably about 3 years hence). So, he's got to be a very good boy and hope Sony/Bell lets him off with minimal punishment.

Man, I hope CE gets a chance to tell his side of things. So far all of this is based on a story Nelson Branco "broke" and everyone else ran with. I know Engen behaved unprofessionally but nobody should have the end of their career written by Nelson Branco.

Well, it will be a while. the legal stuff has to get worked out. Moreover, very often when people go public with their side of the story in a tale like this (Mel Gibson, Michael Richards), they end up coming off as defensive and disingenuous. It is almost better to be quiet, let this blow over, and try to succeed in some other domain (theater, films).

Honestly, I know Nelson is dramatic and all, but he IS correct more often than not. Who is he interviewing next week? MARIA ARENA BELL. It's not like he has third rate sources, he has the heavy hitters. Also, it's true that he's the only one getting major interviews with stars like Jess Walton you don't see out in the press a lot. If you're upset with his scoops, particularly this, blame MAB and her team who are clearly giving him this information. He's obviously very close to the Bell's so this is their side of the story.

Yes. Exactly. There is a lot of doubt-casting on Nelson, but for all of his unique features (someone on Usenet called him an 'entertainer' rather than a 'journalist', and I think he might actually agree with this), he usually gets the story right. Sometimes, he is basically an activist, and changes the direction of things.

I doubt he will want to be part of Hollywood after being told to play an evil character and then kiss a man/pretend to be gay. He will probably vanish and never be heard of again.

Yes.

you're probably right, until some gay scandal breaks with him and an altar boy. Cake meet icing.

Woo. You are funny. A little vindictive, but funny . I hope I stay on your good side.

I get that he broke his contract but Nelson has chosen to tell the world that he broke his contract for a very specific reason. As I stated above, if you take the kiss angle out of this, Engen's behavior could easily be explained by depression or substance abuse.

Good point...we don't know the whole story.

I doubt Engen is allowed to speak at all until the contract issue is resolved. His lawyers surely advised to keep his mouth shut for now. And I bet MAB will be pretty vague when discussing the issue because of potential litigation (Sony against Engen).

I feel bad for Yanni (well i felt bad for him in the first place cause he's named Yanni, but..) - he's being exposed to all this drama that he has nothing to do with. Ruxton, you should call him up and give a hug!

ETA - Yanni had no clue Rafe was gay when he signed on to play Rafe. There's an actor!

Actually, his name is spelled "Yani", I think. But you're right about his signing on not knowing Rafe was gay. Direct quote:

When you auditioned, did you Rafe was gay?

I didn’t know. All I knew was that he was a young lawyer. I was on the show for a month or so before the producers called me in for a meeting to discuss the direction they wanted to take Rafe, and I was cool with it.

Is your family cool with you playing gay?

Yeah! They’re all happy. I have a lot of friends in the gay community, and a couple family members who are gay. Everyone’s really proud to be a part of this experience because it’s quite the landmark role. And it’s about time.

Y&R has never featured a major gay male character before. Gay couples like World Turns’ Nuke and Guiding Light’s Otalia have earned a very passionate, cult-like fan base. Y&R fans have already created a You Tube Channel for Rafe before he has even been paired romantically with anyone.

I did know that, actually. Wow. I’m overjoyed at the prospect of playing a meatier role on the show. And hopefully in a great storyline. Hopefully, the fans and press support this character and the show.

World Turns instituted a one-year kissing and sex ban on their gay couple, Nuke. Do you think Y&R will treat Rafe’s sex life as equally as they do with his straight counterparts?

I don’t know. I haven’t been on the show long enough to know how the top brass deals with these things. Having said that, I’m pretty much down for anything.

I bolded the last part of the last quote. Wow.

The difference is Jess Walton wanted to work! She wanted a contract. Engen bolted because he didn't want to be on the show. There is a major difference between the two. I highly doubt Engen is suing Bells and Sony. He messed up and knows it! Either that or doesnt give two s h i t s.

See that is all speculation just like my speculations. Sorry but you don't know whether that is any truer than anything I said. I can say that I doubt Engen really walked out and can say that I bed Y&R fired him - but in the end I don't know whether that is true or not - anymore than you know what you said.

And at the time when everyone was siding with Walton we were only going on speculation that she did want to work. We didn't really know that to be true but she was given the benefit of the doubt. She could have walked out over something stupid or frivolous - we did not know. We only went on what her camp was saying.

The difference is people liked her and gave her the benefit of the doubt. If this is all a ploy from Y&R to keep from villainized by fans like they were with Scott, Leon, Sherwood, Rowell, Davidson and Walton, they are doing a good job. All they had to do was rile up us gays by saying what they did and they got their wish. This time they are the angels and the actor this time gets the bite of the fans.

Face it folks Y&R has not had the best track record with publicity and actors in the last few years. How many times have they been raked over the coals on this very board alone. With every one of the names I mentioned above they were crucified.

So excuse me if I don't buy what they are saying 100% this time.

Wow. I can probably count the number of times I've watched Y&R on both hands, and I've never seen this actor before in my life, but I have read through all 18 pages of this thread in detail and feel personally compelled to respond for so many reasons...

If this is all somehow a misunderstanding and this actor is not the homophobe he has been made out to be in the press, I will feel very badly for him and what this raucous has done to his career. But the dialogue has already escalated far beyond this one actor and his career (or even this one show) and I just can't leave it be.

You know, given the history of LGBT people in this world, I find the use of hyperbole like "gang up" and "psycho" and "harass" in this context to be more than a little offensive. I don't know of any 15 year old girl who's been stabbed to death by a group of lesbians who were propositioning her because she told them she wasn't interested because she was straight. I've never heard of any man who had his throat slit and was then set on fire, or who was tied to a fence and beaten to death with a gun, by a bunch of gay men because he was straight. And for a man to murder a woman because he realized while raping her that she was transgender...I mean, biological women are raped and murdered every day because of their gender, and I am loathe to make a comparison because I don't want to minimize that, but that's just one extra monstrous detail.

I'm sure it will be assumed by some that I have an "agenda," and yes, I do - to stand up against any attempt to callously trivialize the ugly history of violence against the LGBT community. And I make no apologies for that.

I almost lumped this in with the above quotes, but in spite of the fact that I disagree with what you said, you were respectful and sincere and I can agree to disagree. But, in the same vein as what I said above, in my mind, the history of what LGBT people have suffered at the hands of homophobic people is NOT IN ANY WAY "just as wrong" as the alleged wrongs that intolerant people have supposedly suffered for their intolerance. Murder? Violence? Physical and mental torture? Imprisonment? Pseudo-psychiatric "cures"? Sorry to say, I think those kinds of tactics have all come from on one side. (I don't really see a bunch of catty gay men judging other men's appearances - with the same kind of brutal, dehumanizing callousness by which they were taught while growing up in a sexist society that they would someday as straight men get to judge women, I might add - as being in nearly the same league.)

And yes, I'm aware that beauty queens who go off on tangents about "opposite" marriage and preachers who claim to hate the sin but love the sinner are not themselves committing acts of violence. And certainly an actor on a soap opera whose 15 minutes have apparently come to an end and may have just forfeited any future career in performing because he refused to do a gay scene is not by definition a gay basher. (Although if this story is true, I do question what he may have done as a child on the playground to sensitive little boys who couldn't fight back, and if this economy continues the way it's going and he find himself still out of work a year or two from now and in desperate straits, blaming the "gay mafia" for his predicament, and finds himself on an abandoned street in West Hollywood with a stereotypical gay guy half his size, who is to say what could happen?) But making him out to be a victim ignores the context of real, systemic victimization of LGBT people. And more importantly, these homophobes are public figures and their words resonate, sometimes to very disturbed individuals who are dealing with god knows what kind of issues of their own. Spouting heterosexism and homophobia in our society, especially when you have any kind of platform, is like screaming "fire" in a crowded movie theater, as far as I am concerned.

Nothing to add here, but thank you.

I agree completely with this. I'm sure the revolving door of barely legal ingenues who have been brought in over the years as love interests for the likes of Asa Buchanan, Adam Chandler, Victor Newman, and other senior citizens did not relish their kissing scenes, but they did their jobs and were not freaked out by it. If kissing someone of the same sex is a dealbreaker in an industry where actors are asked to mull around in cocktail dresses outside in New Jersey in February, be trapped in coffins during lengthy funeral/wake scenes, etc. then that would indicate deep-seeded issues as far as I'm concerned.

For the record, I'm a gay man who didn't know who Perez Hilton was until that Miss California pseudo-news story. What I've learned of him since then does not give me any newfound respect for him. The fact that someone who claims to be an advocate for gender and sexuality equality was judging a beauty pageant is to me completely absurd. As far as I'm concerned, the toxic cultural forces that lead young women to develop eating disorders and do other unfortunate things to themselves trying to live up to the kind of ludicrous, Barbie doll gender norms that the Miss California contest perpetuates are directly related to the ones that lead adolescents grappling with their sexuality to kill themselves after getting called a "f@ggot" one too many times on the schoolbus. As long as mainstream society remains so hung up on gender roles that there is an audience for such a freak show, we may see legalized gay marriage across the country, but a lot of gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender adolescents and young adults are going to continue to have a miserable time of it before they get anywhere near the point of getting married. That is, if they survive that long.

I should qualify that by saying I having never watched a beauty pageant in my life, so maybe I am just judging this on the basis of the spokeswomen for hateful causes (from Anita Bryant to Sarah Palin to now Miss California, apparently) who have come out of the beauty pageant industry, which is literally the extent of my knowledge of beauty queens. (Except for Vanessa Williams, who to my mind seemingly made the best career move of her life when she failed to live up to the allegedly high moral standards of beauty pageants.) Certainly the same argument could be made of soap operas, that they reflect destructive gender roles - but I think soaps have the potential to do better than that, and in almost a lifetime as a fan I've seen that happen. Maybe there's a whole network of message boards out there of people with varying political and philosophical viewpoints discussing beauty pageants, sometimes in a very intelligent, analytical way. I'll leave room for that possibility, but I have my doubts that Perez Hilton is aware of any such forum anymore than he is aware of the very complicated relationship between the soap industry and the LGBT community. So I will echo those who say: Please don't lump me in with him.

You know, I agreed with this when I read this, but I have to say that if this turns out to be true, this whole incident does not do anything for my opinion of TPTB at Y&R, which is already problematic at best. I'm sorry, why would they go in such a direction with a character without making sure that the actor was on board? I will agree that this goes way beyond which head writer one likes best, but I can't help but think that this would not happen on an Agnes Nixon show. In hindsight, it boggles my mind that Eden Riegel is the same age as me (at least according to IMDB) because I remember where I was in my life when the Bianca coming out story began on AMC. I was in college and just coming out and dealing with a lot of issues. I sure could not imagine representing such sensitive, important issues publicly at that age with half the grace, poise, and respect for the LGBT community that ER has always brought to every interview that I have ever read. And she can act on top of that!

But as for Y&R, Paul Rauch has a rocky history with "minorities" (I know that word is not PC and women were never a minority in the technical sense of the word, but I just mean he's worked with actresses and people of color before but to my knowledge has never publicly shown where he stands with this particular population), and Maria Arena Bell is a Republican (in California, in an election year when Proposition 8 was used to drum up fervor among that base that was otherwise not particularly enthused). The handling of this situation behind the scenes makes me question why they are embarking on such a story. Why would anyone want such a potential loose canon as this actor is being made out to be involved in what is still quite a groundbreaking story that is touching on the experience of a people who have not been represented very much in this genre? If the writers were so sure that this direction made sense for the character, and the actor had any qualms, then I would say he should have been recast long before he got to any kissing scenes. Which would be a very harsh thing to do, I might add, and might be cause for TPTB to rethink whether the story was really worth it. But if they decided that it was, they should have gotten another actor. End of story.

And, so as not to be accused of just marching in lockstep with the "gay mafia," even from a non-political viewpoint, I don't think it behooves any show to have an actor who is not OK with something like this playing this role. Right now, from what I gather, it is not meant to be a real pairing - it's a one-sided attraction that the other party is taking advatage of - but this character is still supposed to be seducing a lawyer, no? A lawyer is presumably somewhat smart... So at minimum, this actor would need to show the audience why the gay character is convinced by this guy's act, while at the same time making the audience see that he has an agenda, and if he were going to stick around for any length of time, show some kind of humanity underneath all of that. I don't see a homophobe being able to give such a multi-layered performance under those circumstances.

Not to mention, some of the most memorable relationships in soap history began with one party using the other sexually to get something that they wanted. It's a staple. Whether two characters in such a story end up like Dorian and David on OLTL, who have been married on and off and clearly have come to care about and be deeply attracted to each other, or Roger and Alex on GL, who just grew to hate each other more and more over the years, is beside the point. A show can still get years of material out of that kind of dynamic if the actors are up to playing the nuances and ambiguities of the situation and make the audience think twice about what is really going on between those two people. But if this actor really did have an issue with playing gay, even if he had done his job as he was contractually obligated to do and played the scenes as written, what would have stopped him from playing the scenes as written in such a way that still made it crystal clear that he was completely grossed out? You can't sue an actor for breech of contract for giving a one-note performance, otherwise a growing number of lead actors on these shows would be spending all of their time in court these days. Why would a show limit its options in such a way? Which leads me to believe, admittedly as a non-viewer, that Y&R never intended for this to be a complex, major story, but rather a quick gimmick for sweeps designed to cash in on all the hype their supposedly staid and conservative sister soaps, ATWT and GL, have been getting. In which case, this backstage drama may well be their dream come true.

So, I have to say, I think this does reflect poorly on Y&R, and I can't separate that from my feelings about the folks in charge there.

Bro - this is not Y&R's fault. What you don't understand is that the character of Adam is not GAY, nor or they planning on making him gay, he is seducing a gay guy to keep his secret that he is gaslighting Ashley. MAB was not involved in the firing of Adrienne Leon, it was the previous regime. If kissing another man is such an issue for him, then he should never have signed up to be on a serial. He should just do written bodies of work that he can approve or not approve of. And for me, as an actor, if I sign a contract for 4 years I would be certain there would be times I would not like my s/l, but I signed the contract on my own free will.

See that is all speculation just like my speculations. Sorry but you don't know whether that is any truer than anything I said. I can say that I doubt Engen really walked out and can say that I bed Y&R fired him - but in the end I don't know whether that is true or not - anymore than you know what you said.

So excuse me if I don't buy what they are saying 100% this time.

What if it's revealed that Engen did in fact walk out for the reasons already reported? Would we still be in the wrong for saying the things we've said in regards to his decision?

When you auditioned, did you Rafe was gay?

I didn’t know. All I knew was that he was a young lawyer. I was on the show for a month or so before the producers called me in for a meeting to discuss the direction they wanted to take Rafe, and I was cool with it.

Is your family cool with you playing gay?

Yeah! They’re all happy. I have a lot of friends in the gay community, and a couple family members who are gay. Everyone’s really proud to be a part of this experience because it’s quite the landmark role. And it’s about time.

Y&R has never featured a major gay male character before. Gay couples like World Turns’ Nuke and Guiding Light’s Otalia have earned a very passionate, cult-like fan base. Y&R fans have already created a You Tube Channel for Rafe before he has even been paired romantically with anyone.

I did know that, actually. Wow. I’m overjoyed at the prospect of playing a meatier role on the show. And hopefully in a great storyline. Hopefully, the fans and press support this character and the show.

World Turns instituted a one-year kissing and sex ban on their gay couple, Nuke. Do you think Y&R will treat Rafe’s sex life as equally as they do with his straight counterparts?

I don’t know. I haven’t been on the show long enough to know how the top brass deals with these things. Having said that, I’m pretty much down for anything

Thanks for posting this Mark, I had not seen this.

I find that bolded part interesting because some RUMORS in this are saying that the kiss was thrown on CE and was not discussed with him. I wonder why they would discuss something in one case and not another.

That's werid.

Bro - this is not Y&R's fault. What you don't understand is that the character of Adam is not GAY, nor or they planning on making him gay, he is seducing a gay guy to keep his secret that he is gaslighting Ashley. MAB was not involved in the firing of Adrienne Leon, it was the previous regime. If kissing another man is such an issue for him, then he should never have signed up to be on a serial. He should just do written bodies of work that he can approve or not approve of. And for me, as an actor, if I sign a contract for 4 years I would be certain there would be times I would not like my s/l, but I signed the contract on my own free will.

I mean, we don't know that for sure (whether Adam is gay), but I think you are right.

Engen could have played these scenes AND signalled disgust when "Rafe's" back was turned. He could totally have registered his disgust. He passed on a great opportunity...but some dudes just can't do it.

In that sense, I feel CE made a choice (quit, take career consequences), and I basically respect it. He'll pay for this stance, but that's his right.

We get, in return, an excited and energetic actor who is looking forward to the perverse and twisted aspects of the role, AND is taking it with full foreknowledge.

Everyone's gonna win, in the end.