Y&R: Shocking Role Recast

[Taiah]

Yup, that I could believe.

[quartermainefan]

Maybe this is for all the people who miss the point. Here is Chris Pine of Star Trek fame in a play:

and here is Chris Pine in a TV movie called Surrender Dorothy (on top)

No one was asking him to turn gay, his career wasn't ruined and the second picture has no more bearing on his "beliefs" than the first picture. It's acting, he is an actor. There are gay people in this world. You might be lucky enough to get paid to portray one on TV. That the actor is not gay is immaterial. If he refused to play in the second picture it would the exact same thing as if a gay actor refused to act in the first scene. If anyone has ever heard of a gay actor who refused to play straight, let's hear about it. Ok, Harvey Fierstein, but nobody would believe otherwise. If anything, like Sean Penn, Heath Ledger, James Franco, and others no doubt, you'd think this guy being an actor would embrace his being wierded out and confront it head on and do the scene just to overcome the wierding out. They all did.

This guy from Y&R is a very handsome man, maybe he should check out modeling.

[samantha]

I don't watch soaps anymore.

[SteveFrame]

I totally agree with a2sassy. There is no way I can label CE a homophobe and can't believe all the people that are doing so without knowing the full story. All we ahve heard are rumors.

And as to Perez Hilton, he needs to sit down and shut his mouth. He hurts the cause for gays rights and gay marriage more than he ever helps. He is the main reason that turns these people into martyrs. He and people like Ms. Clementine Ford.

And I am shocked too by the judging that goes on. I love my fellow gay and bisexual brothers and sisters as much as the next person, but I am constantly shocked at how judgemental we can be - both with outselves and with others. For us to be a minority seeking approval from everyone else we are the least likely to give it to others. We judge people on their looks and the first to say something if a guy doesn't mesure up downstairs which many actors have said limits the amount of male nudity they will do onscreen because they don't want to be judged in that department. Who was it a few years ago Fergie went on record about all the letters that Josh Duhamel got from gay guys criticizing him about his size. Just another example.

Calling people names who feel different that we do or have different beliefs is just as narrow minded in my eyes as the ones who don't believe in gay marriage or gay rights.

To lower one's worth because of a belief is being just as close-minded as those that don't believe in gay marriage. And I refuse to go there.

There is no way both sides can ever meet in the middle until both of the extreme sides on this issue can get past that. This side sees no worth in the homosexual while that side sees not worth in those that don't feel like them - and neither one of them are willing to see it any other way. It is totally ridiculous. To me one side is just wrong as the other.

And sorry if that offends anyone, but it is the way I feel.

I have friends and family who don't believe in gay marriage. Some believe in gay unions and some don't. We still hang around. We still value one another as human beings and friends. We just disagree on that issue. There is no way in hell I would ever call them a bastard or a bitch or any other name. Acting that way toward them only closes any dialogue we could ever have and forever stops the chance of even hoping they will see the light and change their mind.

I wish people who are close minded like that and so tied up in my way or the highway could see that. When you close a door on someone there is no way to ever open that door again. And calling people names and ridiculing their values is doing just that. You shut them down.

The religious right do it all the time. But sorry so do my gay friends and people who believe like me. Both in my mind are TOTALLY [!@#$%^&*] WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The one thing that I agree with Obama on is that the answer to gay rights is somewhere between the two extremes. But as long as both sides keep sticking to my way or the highway, we will never get that middle ground. We will never meet in the middle. We will just stay where we are at with both sides acting like children throwing stones and calling names. And many people will suffer in the mean time and mostly those gays who will continue to be denied the things they want.

Okay I am off my soapbox.......

*******************************************

A person posted yesterday on SoapsWEB and asked this question. Someone brought it up a little bit here, but I would love to know what some of you here think about this.

What if this had been Clementine Ford and she refused to kiss a guy and gave Y&R trouble about the issue? How would people feel toward her? Would you feel that she shouldn't have to sacrifice what she believes in or would you HONESTLY feel that she should go against her beliefs? Or what if she had to play her role day in and day out as a person who preached against gay marriage but she refused to say those lines - how would you feel about that? Should she sacrifice her beliefs to play that role?

[SteveFrame]

Oh I an meant to bring this up.

One of the local news stations was doing an interview with a local actor a few months ago. He said to him that he could play any role, but there were certain things that he would no do in that role. The subject came up because his church was giving him problems because he was playing a character who had the occupation of a stripper. He had no problem with that as long as the role did not call for him to actually strip. And it didn't.

HE said he could play a gay guy on screen as long as it didn't require him to kiss a guy. He said he felt it was the same as when actresses don't mind playing a role that makes it appear they are nude but it is not them it is a body double who is actually nude.

I don't know how I feel. When I first heard this though I thought of what he said. I have also been thinking to myself that if I had a job that required me to do certain things would I be willing to do them. I honestly don't think I could even if it was something legal if it violated something I belived in I don't think I could do it. I would do what Engen did and quit. At least that is what I think I would do. Who really knows until they get in that position.

[KLN]

I don't think anyone's arguing that he didn't have the God-given right to walk off the set and break his contract. At the end of the day, he can do whatever the hell he wants. More than anything, I think people are simply frustrated over what fueled his decision. Was the issue that he just didn't want to kiss another guy, or did it also involve his personal and/or religious beliefs? If it's the latter, many people might perceive those beliefs to be close-minded, which is probably where the anger and frustration is coming from. It's frustrating when you're a fan of someone and then find out that their fundamental beliefs stand in opposition of your fundamental beliefs. But again, he's only human and he has the right to do whatever he wants, so...

Regarding Clementine Ford, if she refused to kiss a guy, I would feel the same way. "Bitch, why you an actress then?!" If she absolutely refused to kiss a guy, she should make those limits known to the writers and producers before a contract is signed. Otherwise, she's just wasting everyone's time. (Not that she isn't anyway, 'cause homegirl sucks.) Same goes for people opposed to nudity. Ditto that for playing a homophobe who preaches against gay marriage. I'm sure it'd be uncomfortable for her, but actors do uncomfortable things all the time. Characters take a thousand and one unpredictable twists and turns in the course of a contract. We need people who are fearless and willing to bring any story to life -- not people who are gonna piss and moan and stomp and whine and hault production and screw up the story just because their character on a soap opera is written to do something that goes against one of their moral beliefs. If an actor is not willing to do what's required of them, they should let the producers know their limits ahead of time... otherwise they shouldn't be signing a contract and they should probably stick to roles on the Disney Channel or Nickelodeon. Or just not act at all.

For me, what I find frustrating is that Y&R was being asked to compromise a great story/scene/whatever over this. Believe what you want morally, but don't screw with my rare homo kisses! LoL.

[Dan]

I swore to myself I wouldn't post further in this thread, but I have to say great post Steve.

I've thought for awhile that 'liberal' doesn't necessarily mean 'open-minded' any more than 'conservative' means 'closed-minded.' The terms are not mutually exclusive. I pride myself on being in between those two labels.

But regardless, this situation is reminding me greatly of the infamous Kim Zimmer flare up. Kim Zimmer publicly refuses to take a pay cut when GL wanted to renegotiate her then-current contract. Then, several of Kim's co-stars were fired or sent to recurring. The message boards put the events together in what seemed to all of us a logical progression of events. People were outraged at Kim for 'allowing' her co-stars to be fired for some alleged selfishness. Never mind that she was standing up for what she personally thought was right, but people on the boards lambasted her for not 'taking one for the team' or 'just acting and shutting up.' Never mind that none of us knew the true behind-the-scenes story. Never mind that those actors were probably on the cutting list regardless of whether or not Zimmer took a pay cut or not. But TPTB sure let Kim Zimmer play the fall guy to shift the blame away from them during the entire situation. Take the political hot-button issue out of the Engen mess and this is precisely what you have. Another unfounded fandom message-board witchhunt.

EDIT: I want to add that I am not necessarily defending Engen's actions. Breaching a contract is a very serious issue and that should be looked at negatively. But in the end, the only way that it affects me personally is that I won't be able to see Engen on Y&R any longer. I feel people are taking this way too far.

[cara mia]

Did anyone read about Mary Louise Parker being upset about a nude scene she did?

http://www.contactmusic.com/news.nsf/artic...20scene_1103739

It went beyond her comfort zone, obviously. I am sure the directors & writers found the scene to be critical to their storytelling but the actress is now bitter and angry that she complied. This brings up a philosophical issue about the role & power of actors. I love reading about famous directors and their process and there's a wide variety among them. Some want their actors to just play their parts and leave them alone, some expect their actors to collaborate almost as co-partners. Film, TV, and theater are also going to have their own set of rules. Films & plays are finite. You know before filming starts the Reader requires a nudity & heavy sexuality and that Race to Witch Mountain certainly does not. TV series and tv characters though evolve over time. Sara Ramirez signed onto Grey's Anatomy expecting to play George's love interest and was therefore playing a presumably straight character. When the role evolved into a lesbian, she was able to go with it. On ER though, Eriq LaSalle demanded and received an end to the interracial romance he was playing against Alex Kingston. My opinion of EL definitely took a hit when that story came out. Just because EL had a problem with interracial relationships it didn't mean that Dr. Peter Benton should. At the same time, I don't live EL's life. Maybe he was overwhelmed by the negative reaction he got from a black man dating a white woman. In the case of film & theatre, actors should be willing & able deliver on everything spelled out in the script. There are no surprises. In a venue like tv though, were sometimes the actors have an even longer history with the characters than the writers and/or directors, there may be an argument for actors having some input in their characters. I am not sure if that should be the case, just throwing that idea out there and I wonder what others think.

[Dan]

Not really. I mean, does Michelle Stafford being a scientologist affect my opinion of her or her work? Not really. Even though I find the religion to be rather ridiculous. But in the end, she has every right to believe what she wants. In the meantime, I plan on watching her and enjoying Phyllis' scheming

[KLN]

True, true. I think I would feel differently if I suddenly found out that Michelle Stafford "doesn't believe in the gays" though. I'm sure I would still enjoy her work -- her talent can't be denied. I think I would feel disappointed though.

I guess that's just me, LoL.

[DeeeDee]

[KLN]

LoL, this Muhney guy is so proud to be working on Y&R. More from his twitter...

[Darn]

His issue was that after a succession of failed relationships with black women Peter's only successful one would be with a white woman. I saw his point but at the same time Peter and Elizabeth were crazy hot and I was pissed that they ended so abruptly, especially since both ended up with two of the most annoying people on the show.

Nice thing about that, the show realized exactly what they lost when they broke them up so they wrote this nice, long and slightly awkward scene for Beter and Elizabeth in the series finale.

[MarkH]

It's so nice that he's happy. I really think -- regardless of how they write Adam -- that that enthusiasm alone is going to energize the role...and that will be a good thing.

Wasn't that finale terrific? I loved the Peter/Corday scenes.

[Darn]

Oh yeah, it was fantastic. The last scene was especially wonderful, just pitch perfect.