Neighbours: Discussion Thread

Skylover · June 6, 2011

Do you watch Neighbours every day, Ben? If so, how long have you been watching it? Agreed about Pepper/Will/Frazer/Rosie at first. I disliked them at first - I cant remember if it was the episode after their arrival but there was an episode not long after their debut, which featured Pepper, Will, Frazer, Rosie, Carmella and Zeke as the only permanent characters. That was a bizarre episode. I don't think the writers really knew what direction they were going in when the no.30 residents were introduced, but it seems like they picked up on what was chemistry between Frazer and Rosie and built upon that. I loved the contrast between Rosie and Pepper's characters, they were so defined as characters and complete opposites. I saw a lot of similarities between them and the characters from Sex and the City. I wasn't keen on Pepper and Frazer pretending to be a couple to get the room at no.30. I totally know what you mean about TPTB axeing Sindi. But to me that era had an air of desperation about it - Channel Ten wasn't happy with the ratings and even though there wasn't really anything wrong with the show, and it was actually the channel and promotion that was crap, it seemed like the producers made some silly decisions as they were desperate for ratings to improve and in that desperation they axed some great characters like the Bishops, Sindi and the Timmins. I think they realise now that the channel was wrong all along and that's why they aren't so heavy with the axe these days. The worst thing about Neighbours for me is how it's been a casualty of its network for the last six years. If they had just had some faith, the product would be in a much stronger position now.

I can definitely see the story working if Michael was to reveal that Tash's mother was still alive. Re a witness protection storyline, I can't see that working as I don't see Michael as the sort of character to do something massively wrong, unless like I mentioned in my earlier post, he was bad in the past, but learning from his mistakes has taken on this new philosophical attitude. I also agree that Cassandra Freedman was a poorly written character. When we got the news that she was joining, I was so excited, they really hyped her up, and Tottie Golsmith wasn't a poor actress either. Plus she made a great bitch and really suited the role and gave off that vibe. But they made her a panto villain. Such a shame. I always thought it would have been good had they made her a hippie and brought loads of guys home under the kids noses and not have been able to see what she was doing wrong. Bar Simon the Freedmans definitely had potential IMO.

Nicola West is a character who should have been kept on. Just because her character developed a mental illness, why does that mean she had to be carted off into the wilderness? These people exist in society and it would have done Neighbours good portraying such a serious condition. Ironically despite all the awful things Nicola did during her time on the show, I felt much more affection for her than any of her family. They never mentioned her after she left.

Edited June 6, 2011 by Edward Skylover

Ben · June 7, 2011

I try to watch everyday, and if I don't, I do feel like I've missed something, as opposed to not caring like I sometimes did last year and especially 2009 - that year it felt better *not* watching every episode. Technically, I've been watching since it began, but I was too young to remember the 80s, and the early 90s are a bit of a blur. I remember that episode, which was really weird, as they'd only just arrived and we were "treated" to an episode about the newbies, even though no-one cared. I hated their intro stories, which were unnecessary; Frazer and Pepper could have arrived without their very own take on that movie about two people who pretend to be a couple in order to bag a room (I forget what it's called). It never felt like Frazer & Rosie were crafted together from the storyboard, but something they hit upon later - an accidental hit. Shame Will left after just 3 months, as that really messed with his story, and confused it even more when Oliver arrived and picked up all of Will's stories. Rosie was a classic Neighbours character, who felt like new ground for the show. She was different, but very characterised - I didn't like the Paul/Rosie thing though, which felt a little forced. Do you remember Paul's fantasies about Rosie the virginal bride?! LOL.

There wasn't anything wrong with the ratings, though, just Ten being greedy for more, which had a detrimental affect on the shows' future. The Bishops axing was probably their biggest mistake. These days, the actors all quit before they're given a chance to be fired.

I don't think the witness protection idea was a good one (even though he doesn't have to have done anything bad in the past, but maybe his wife did, or he witnessed some terrible crime), I was more thinking along the lines of changing his and Tash's last name in order to leave his old life with his wife behind so she couldn't track them down. Or, his family couldn't find them for whatever reason, as I find it strange that he has no-one besides Tash - no parents, no siblings, no uncles, cousins, etc - it just feels like his past doesn't exist, like it's been purposefully eradicated. I guess that's where I got the witness protection idea from.

Cassandra was panto, which was a shame. I loved that they were doing a story about a mother who hadn't bonded with her children, and the affect that had on them and her, and the way she viewed them and her life. This was kinda controversial, as many people didn't understand that about her, and how that had shaped her bad relationship with her kids. It's difficult not having that bond with you mother, especially when the outside world judges your behaviour as being a result of something else. Sadly, they failed to develop that part of Cass, and instead focused on her being nasty, with no redeeming features. Tiegan was OK, but iPod Boy was awful; I don't know how he won that Dolly comp at all. Cass would've worked as a hippie; she could've been off her face a lot of the time, burning incense to cover it up. But this Neighbours, and they probably would've botched that up considering they can't even say the word 'drugs'.

I loved Nicola - she was awesome and a firm fave of mine. It helped that Imogen Bailey was hot. She made the Parkers bearable, and injected a bit of flavour into their bland family, who had some really dislikeable character traits. It's unrealistic that Nicola is still locked up in a mental ward. Neighbours would do well to portray a character being rehabilitated back onto the community, and Nicola would've been perfect for this. Sam would work as a regular, too, but they probably would only use her bipolar a manipulation tool, as Sam is only ever portrayed as being evil.

Skylover · June 10, 2011

Interesting post, you seem like a very intelligent guy.

Rosie was definitely the strongest character of the no.30 bunch. I loved the fact that she was a virgin at 26, as sex is a strong theme in both Neighbours and Home and Away, so it's good to show that not all people have sex when they're 17, and some people do exist that haven't been in big relationships for most of their life. As for the ratings, do you really think there was nothing wrong with them? Home and Away has rated higher than Neighbours for years, despite the fact that it is far superior and always has been IMO. Do you think that Channel Ten is reponsible, could they have promoted the show more? Like I said earlier though, the fact that the producers were panicking was reflected on screen in many ways. During that time there were constant revamps of the credits style, the key locations changing names i.e. the General Store and Charlie's, characters being axed and so many new characters being brought in. One thing I have enjoyed under Bower's reign is that things seem far more settled and the show itself appears to be more confident. I don't know if that makes much sense, but the way the long-term characters have had the spotlight, the credits have remained the same style for years, and the key locations haven't been altered. It seems like Bower really belives in letting the new cast settle in too.

Having read your post again, you're actually right about the witness protection storyline, that would be a good one. It would certainly explain Michael's past rather than it just seeiming like laziness on the writers behalf.

I loved Sam too. She was an awesome character in her first stint, but they totally ruined her when she came back. Simone Buchanan was excellent in the bipolar scenes, and I think it's important to show someone coping with an illness like that. I don't understand why the producers haven't brought her in long-term when Simone has said in various interviews that she'd like to go back.

I really hope Valentina stays with the show for a long time yet, as Tash is fast becoming one of the most complex characters in years. I don't understand why so many viewers hate her when she's clearly a very mixed up young girl. Talking of the teen group, what do you think of the A/S/C/N teen group? Do you think it's realistic that they would still be friends after everything that's happened? I find Tash and Summer's friendship fantastic to watch. They love to annoy each other but deep down they have this fondness for each other, I think it's really sweet and a unique friendship, you don't often see this in a show. I love how Summer accepts Tash's faults and sees the person underneath.

Ben · June 16, 2011

Thanks for the complement Ed.

It was also good that they didn't really tie Rosie's virginity to religion, even though she was Catholic, it was never about that. You're right, not everyone does have sex young, so Rosie made a change there, especially in contrast to Pepper.

If we're talking about the ratings in 2005, then yeah, there wasn't really any problem with them. The show had just come off a stellar year in 2004, which saw the show reaching over the million mark and rating better/even with H&A, and was continuing along nicely enough for the show not to undergo any major changes. But, Ten wanted more, and they wanted to compete with H&A, which at the time had just entered an OTT phase thanks to Dan Bennett. Neighbours didn't need to axe Sindi, or the Bishops, they didn't need to compete, but they did, and it damaged the show. The ratings started to decline; 2006 was full of badly executed/climaxed stories, where the OTT-ness was ramped up even further, slowly descending into cartoons-ville in 2007, and by that time, the ratings were an issue. I don't blame Ten for wanting the show to do better, but they seemed to want it to become something it wasn't. Instead of just letting it be, they had to try to mould it into a Bold & the Beautiful-esque show, and then again, as a teen soap in 2009 (I'm sure that was part Ten/part Bower). They promoted the show pretty well until 2009, even though the majority of the promos became OTT and very misleading - you could tell from the promos alone that Ten wanted the show to be something it wasn't, otherwise they wouldn't have portrayed a Boyd & Janae fight, like he was going to rape her. I remember the sets changing names, especially the Scarlett Bar which became Charlie's. Although, that set really does need to be changed again, as the name is no longer relevant now that Charlie and all his family have left the show. Bower is good at creating and introducing new characters, but I wouldn't say she gave the long-term cast as much to do as they could've done during the teen years. It's nice the credits have gone back to a more traditional style, and stayed the same, too.

I loved Sam during the bipolar story, which really put Neighbours on the map for doing justice to a mental health issue, especially when most people look down on Neighbours for this kind of thing. Simone was awesome in whatever material they gave her, even if the majority of it was out-of-character. They should bring her back as a regular, and as Paul's next love interest... but not until he's had a rest from womanising. Or, maybe keep them as platonic, simply being friends, and something more develops between them, catching Paul off guard.

I love Tash, too, but I get the feeling that many viewers couldn't/can't see her layers and complexities, and I think that is partly down to the writers who never fully explained her motives during the fake pregnancy (it went beyond revenge). I hope she stays around for a good few years, too, and in some way that's partly b/c I want some stability with the younger cast as the show needs more Toadies/Libbys/Ks for the future.

I much prefer this teen group to one that went before, but it has taken me ages to actually like Andrew, and that didn't happen until Tash's fake pregnancy story which brought out a side to him we hadn't seen before. Summer can be quite dislikeable at times, but I like how she and Tash call each out on their flaws; they do have a good friendship that is believable. Do you think this is how Summer would've turned out had she never left the show? I still find it off that they chose a recast over the original actress. I think they've handled it in as plausible way possible, as you can still see that Andrew and Tash aren't exactly big buddies, but they get along b/c they have shared friends in Chris and Summer. The only questionable thing is maybe how quickly Tash has gotten over Andrew. Oh, and how they've basically glossed over Andrew excepting some responsibility for the whole pregnancy lie, but I guess that's a character trait, as he never takes responsibility for anything.

Ben · June 18, 2011

Skylover · June 18, 2011

O no, Bower definitely didn't give the long-term cast more to do during the teen years, but I would say that is a postive of her tenure overall. While Pellizzeri was constantly shaking up the cast, Bower has let it become more stable, and bringing back Lyn was a masterstroke, even if she was mainly involved in the destruction of Steph's character. Even though the Steph baby lie story fell flat for me, I appreciate that it involved so many of the long-term characters so heavily, like Lyn, Steph, Toadie and the Kennedys. That was the beauty of the story even if the story as a whole was terrible. During Pellizzeri's tenure, new characters would be developed and then leave.

As for the teen group as a whole, I really am not a fan of Andrew and Summer. Together or apart. To be honest I find both characters extremely selfish. Andrew, as you say, never seems to accept reponsibilty for anything. I was excited about the character when he was introduced, I think Jordan Smith is an ok actor, and at firstAndrew was sexy, charming, cheeky etc etc but they quickly turned him into a lovesick mess. He lost so much of his personality when he got involved in the Summer/Tash triangle. He just became so wet and one-dimensional. I think the loss of Harry hurt the teen group, as the trio of Andrew/Summer/Harry worked extremely well. I didn't like how Andrew only interacted with Andrew and Summer. His lack of friends and integration into the cast damaged the character, as it felt like all he had going for him was this love triangle. I find Summer annoying as well now. She was good to start with too. But she's opinionated and judgemental, and actually I think she can be quite unwelcoming and unfriendly at times, for example her behaviour towards Kyle when he moved into the Scully's. I don't think she would have ended up the way she has. I think she would be more nerdy than she is, I can't imagine Marisa Siketa playing her now. I'm glad they didn't bring back Siketa as I found her quite annoying.

However, I love Chris and Natasha. Even though she's done so much scheming, I still find Natasha a much better character than Andrew and Summer. Chris is very bland, but I think he seems nice enough. I hope they develop some well-defined character traits for him soon. Actually, have you seen the news that he's getting a boyfriend? Bobby Morley is playing him, who played Drew in Home and Away. I'm really pleased about this news. Not only because Morley is hot but he's a good actor and I like his attitude to the fact that the character is gay. I guess we'll see if they do i properly.

What makes you prefer this teen group over the last one? Is it the fact that there aren't so many of them, or do you just prefer the actual characters. I posted on Nfans a few weeks ago, how many characters featured in that actual year at school over time: Summer, Bree, Rachel, Zeke, Ringo, Lolly, Bridget, Declan, Donna, Sunny, Kate. It was never-ending! Ben, what is your opinion of Kate? Loads of people I know and on DS seem to hate her, but I think she's actually one of my favourite characters on the show. I love how she is so nurturing and caring at a young age. Looking after her sister is an interesting story, I just wish they hadn't killed off Jill and had brought her in as a regular character.

Ben · June 18, 2011

That's true about Pellizzeri, although with Bower, I guess the mass exodus of cast during her tenure taints how stable she has been with the cast. But on the other hand, if none of these characters had left, would they still be around today? Since she started we've seen all of these characters leave: Oliver, Carmella, Marco, Rachel, Riley, Steve, Bridget, Declan, Rebecca, Elle, Donna, Ringo, Zeke, Harry, Dan, Steph, Lyn, Charlie, Ben and Harold. She chose not to extend these guest characters contracts: Nicola, Sienna, and Sunny. Ned and Ty apparently left on their own accord, too, but I have to wonder if they were fired. Miranda is the only official character that she has chosen to axe, I think... Oh, and she did get rid of Taylah, who I thought worked well with Zeke; she should have stayed.

Bringing back Lyn was good, but for her first 6 months she was being assassinated on a daily basis by that idiotic feud with Rebecca, which was also destroying her character as well. Thank goodness they rectified that and returned Lyn to the person we all knew and loved. Steph's baby lie wasn't good, but I did enjoy the drama. I don't know how they messed that up so bad.

What did you think of the Rachel/Angus story? That was another age gap relationship.

I've never liked Andrew, and I think that's partly b/c they like to throw these business stories at him, and they just feel all wrong; he's a kid, and not a very mature one to pull off going head-to-head with Declan at Lassisters, or taking on business execs, or running his own party planning business - they never ring true for me. It took me a while to get used to Summer, but it all fell apart during the Andrew/Harry triangle where she started to change, and has since never recovered. Her behaviour towards Kyle was shocking, but at least they called her out on it and didn't gloss over it like they used to with Didge. MS may have grown out of that annoying-ness. Personally, I didn't mind her at all.

I find Tash can actually be quite funny at times, and some of the things she says I would say, too - like when she's a bit blunt, or if she's vexed by something and she'll throw out a sarcastic one liner. I like Chris, but he is so bland. I like how he stands up for himself, and is very loyal, but he does lack a bit of a spark, or some much needed development that only his much needed family could explore. I also think he's dealt with his sexuality quite well - not much drama at all. I love that he's getting a boyfriend, but I wonder how they'll play it? Will it be Disney-esque or something more adult? Bob Morley's casting was a surprise, but I think he's a much better match than that other new teen who you thought may have been a love interest.

It's not that there is less of them (although that is a bonus), it's more that they haven't been given immature, childish, stupid, unrealistic (I could go on), storylines (bar Andrew's early scheming against Rebecca). As individual characters, I preferred the last bunch, but when they came together, it all fell a part. Donna was awesome, but she lost her way quickly, and in hindsight, she was one of problems, dragging characters down with her inane, stupid plots that were aimed at people aged 12. Declan was a fan fave of mine, until the recast; I found him really relatable (JS not EM). I liked Ringo in his early months more-so than what he became (the AFL story really ruined him), and Zeke was good until they botched his amnesia story and paired him with the annoying Sunny and horrendous Mia and the dumb plots they brought. Basically, they were a mess.

I think those teens can be grouped into two different camps, even though some over lap. Summer/Zeke/Ringo/Rachel/Bree/Lolly, and what they later became with the inclusion of Donna/Bridget/Declan/Sunny/Kate/Kyle. The former group was better than the latter. I thought Bree was an excellent character, and I even warmed to Lolly, but she was gone once her abuse story was dealt with.

I hated the intro of the Ramsays and what they did to valuable characters like Helen. Never really liked Harry or Kate, and especially disliked Kate during her "Super Woman" phase that never seemed to end. I realized last year that Donna was dragging Kate down, and since she's been paired up with Jade, Kate has become a lot more likeable and more interesting. But, I feel Kate is put on a bit of a podium by TPTB - their golden girl. I think they could do more with Kate & Sophie, as their relationship isn't as defined at it could be. Is she simply Sophie's big sister, or her sister with a parental attitude? When Sophie had a go at Sonya, Kate never said a word, seemingly condoning her rude outburst - that would have been a good time to talk to her like a parent would. I think that would be a good dynamic to explore. On the subject of Jill, I wish they would retcon them being Ramsays altogether, as that should never have happened.

What do you think of the twist that the man Susan develops an attachment to is dying? Who do you think it will be? One of the new doctors, or someone else entirely?

Skylover · June 18, 2011

I don't think Bower can be blamed for the cast instability during her time on the show. I don't think more actors have left while she's been in charge than any other period. Miranda isn't the only character that Bower has axed; the actor that played Riley Parker has confirmed in interviews that he left as the writers felt there was nowhere to go with the character, and I expect Marco and Ned were axed too. Thank God Ned was axed, he is possibly the worst character played by the worst actor in any soap ever. Due to the cast size, I think you have to expect a air few departures. I think it's a shame that a few characters from the last teen group couldn't have stayed longer. Having said that, I think we've lost a lot of deadwood and the show really has a fresh feel to it this year. I think the cast and story changes of 2011 have really benefited the show. I was a bit miffed whn I fond out Zeke was leaving, but who would he have interacted with if he was in the show now? I can imagine him hanging around with Kate and Jade and it seeming really forced. Jade and Kate's friendship is great to watch, I really love the 20s group. Sam is anoter guest who was never promoted to regular status. Bower is quoted as saying that she wanted to staple Dean Geyer's feet to the floor or something weird along those lines so I doubt he was axed. Stupid if he was axed, one of the hottest guys the show has ever had and Ty was a good character.

As regards to Lyn, I also thought it was stupid that she didn't get on with Rebecca. Especially considering that they got on well during Lyn's 2008 return. Some parts of the feud were good but I don't think it needed to last so long and perhaps they should have treated the story as a bit of lighthearted fun. I still see that as a natural progession of the Lyn character. Paul really left a mark on her in 2006, and she became a more worldy-wise person out of it, but I think she also became a bit bitter and twisted. Lyn really loves Paul though. I think they could have done more with that after she admitted to Susan that she still loved him at the end of 2009.

I liked parts of the Rachel/Angus story. To be honest I don't understand why there was such controversy surrounding it. I mean, he was, what, 22? And she looked older than 16. Plus Angus didn't know that she was 16 when he met her. I think they could have done more with the story, but I appreciated Bower's efforts to milk the story for all it was worth, bringing Angus back into the show when his sentence was up. It really pissed me off that Rachel got with Ty about a month after Angus had left. That character is probably one of the most destroyed characters of all time. She became a whiny, self-obsessed teen. ITA with you about Andrew. I hope they go all out with Chris and Aiden. I think they need to cause a bit of controversy now the show's on a digital channel, and Neighbours being the first show in Australia to have a gay couple will put it on the map. If they make it Disneyesque I will be seriously offended. I said on PB though, Bower doesn't seem to shy away from controversy so can you imagine them glossing over many issues? I hope they get to kiss and actually be a couple like straight characters do. If the character is popular, I would love for Aidan to become permanent. Do you think that is very likely? Do you think Bower would cave after complaints from viewers and get rid of the character? Will Ten be hesitant to let them go all out with this storyline? I can imagine Ten being wary, but do you think they could see it as a ratings-grabber? So many questions. I really don't get why people on boards say 'the ratings are going to go down, families won't let their children watch!' - I would have thought it would spark interest? Anyway, I really hope they don't cock it up because they've got something good to work with. Bob Morley's casting is fantastic, I think he'll be great in the role. They could easily bring in Chris' parents to bulk up the older cast, I don't see why they don't do that, it seems like an obvious choice. It would definitely flesh him out as well.

Why do you think it all fell apart when the previous teens came together? So you weren't a fan of many of Donna's plots then? What did you think of the Saffron plot and her finding her dad? As for Declan, I've never understood th attraction of Declan Mk 1. He's probably the most popular character of the last few years, but I see him in a totally different light to most people. I found James Sorensen's acting poor most of the time, and I found the character quite arrogant. I agree about Ringo, he was a really fun character in his first few months. He had some great scenes with Lolly. He was a fresh character, but they ruined him. Zeke's 'Lost Boy' aamnesia storylines are some of my favourite stories of the last few years. They had their problems, but I liked the ideas behind them. Lost Boy was areally inspired story. I loved the flashbacks he had from the rafting accident, it made it look like he had been abused by the guy who got him, I would have loved it if they'd gone in that direction but obviously this being Neighbours. The aftermath was extremely poor. They did really well with the fall out of the rafting accident, but as soon as Zeke was found, they kind of lost their way. They should have dealt more with the affect the whole thing had on Zeke, but it was all swept under the carpet. I wish we had seen Zeke at PirateNet more, he seemed so natural there. I've said in the past, they could have interwoven Zeke's radio show with other stories and had montages of Zeke talking about subjects relating to other characters while montages of those characters were being shown.

I think they've tried to make Kate their golden girl as she's a Ramsay and therefore at the centre of the show. I agree that the introduction was terrible. It seemed like Kate, Harry and Sophie didn't give a dam about their mother. No grieving was depicted whatsoever. I know I'm in a small minority in my love for Kate, but I just think she seems like a lovely, approachable person. Ashleigh's also a good actress. I think the person Susan falls for will be someone else entirely. Doctor Rhys Lawson is permanent apparently, and the older doctor arrives after Malcolm returns so I doubt it will be him.

Who is your favourite character of all time, Ben? Do you like Sky Mangel and Julie Martin? What's your opinion of Rosie Hoyland? Do ou think she deserved to be axed? I think Rosie being there during theIzzy stuff would have been brilliant.

Ben · June 19, 2011

What I'm saying is, if none of the cast had left, would she have gotten rid of any? But that's something we will never know. I realize the show has had mass departures before, it just feels more evident in the last 5 years than it has done in the past. I'd forgotten about Riley - I thought he had potential. I think it could've gone either with Marco, but was probably a mutual decision. Ned was the biggest albatross the show has ever had, and his time was long over due. I remember that comment about Ty, now. He may have been hot, but there was no reason for him to stay, and nowhere for them to take his character after he was lumped with Rachel. Not to mention he gave us that dreadful Unforgettable song (OK, it was fine the first go, but when the kids sang it to Ty, awful!). I think the logical one to stay on would have been Declan (if Rebecca had stayed), but everyone else was dragging the show down in one way or another (something I didn't quite see at the time). Zeke would have been out of place with the set-up now; I just wish he had gotten a better exit. IA we have lost a lot of deadwood, but also some that was not, like Rebecca, Lyn...

I understood the change in Lyn, but the way they went about it felt all wrong, especially her treatment of Rebecca, who also displayed out-of-character behaviour during that time. A lot of what they engaged in was childish, but a lot of what was happening around that time was childish. I'm sort of glad they didn't do anything with that, as I loved Paul & Rebecca as a couple, and I didn't want Lyn to come between that. Plus, I don't think either character would go back there, especially Paul. I'm not sure what else they could've done with that admission that wasn't a triangle.

I liked some of the Angus/Rachel story, too. Some of it featured in a low point in 2008 when the show wasn't working, but I did like that they carried it on past the initial phase when Neighbours would usually wrap up a story. I think it was controversial b/c he was her teacher and she his student, and regardless of how they met, that is a big no-no. He shouldn't have gone there while she was at school. You just don't do it. Plus, there's always that level of possible coercion on the teacher's part that makes you doubt the sincerity. When they brought Angus back, I felt they wrecked his character, purposefully making him less likeable. IA about Rachel and her rushed relationship with Ty. There was also that silly story with Ty possibly stalking her, and then it turned out to be some random and was all done with in a week.

She may not shy away from controversy, but she does air on the side of caution. I just want them to be treated like any other couple, being affectionate, kissing, etc, and not have it portrayed off screen, or as if they're asexual, or as if they're just friends. I want it to be organic. I wouldn't mind it if they showed the realities that they may face as a couple in public, like homophobia and stuff - you know, the rough with the smooth and how that impacts on them as characters, especially Chris. I also like that neither are stereotypes (Chris isn't anyway), but I've read comments that hate characters like CS' Sean, and then comments that think straight-acting gay characters are just a way for the show to shy away from the gay story. Which is really stupid. LOL so many questions! I think Ten will be hesitant, but more open to it now that the show is on a digital channel, and will be watching the ratings and demos carefully. I also think any backlash will be taken seriously, but whether or not that will affect the story or characters, is hard to tell. I think that Chris has proven popular enough for them to make permanent in the first place, so they know what the viewers want, but a coming out story is one thing, an actually romance is another. I think if Aidan is popular, and the couple is popular, then his contract will be extended. But, do we want Aidan to be Chris' only ever b/f though? Is that realistic? I think this story will determine what happens in the future. I wish it didn't, but that's the way life is. Prejudices will dictate whether or not families let their kids watch, but I don't think ratings will go down, they'll probably remain the same. Plus, logically, Chris is only here b/c of the audience feedback, so logic would say that the audience shouldn't have a problem with this... right? H&A's ratings went down during the Charlie & Joey story, but they handled that badly, the PR was terrible, and they basically encouraged a backlash. So far, Neighbours haven't done the same thing as H&A. If they don't make it a PR stunt, then it should be fine. I want to see Chris' parents, but preferably recasts, as the last actors looked like extras thrown together for that episode.

I think they fell apart b/c they were all individually ruined by previous stories and never fully recovered. Ringo was fine with Lolly, Carmella and the anorexia story, but the AFL story tainted him, and then they gave him a guitar and made him sing just b/c Sam Clark sang! This happened to them all at one point or another. They were also responsible for a lot of crap that appeared from 2008-2010. I liked Saffron; I thought she had hidden depth courtesy of her past, but she was portrayed as a panto villain out to destroy poor Donna. It's the fashion industry, it's supposed to be cut throat. Plus, Donna's designs weren't that great. Her search for her dad wasn't bad, but it had moments of stupidity, like Donna dithering over the letters, then deciding she didn't want to know, then accusing Nick of cheating... Donna's flightiness was ramped up to silly levels, while her more interesting traits were forgotten about. I've just remembered that they alluded to Donna being bi - yeah right.

How can you not like James Sorenson? He was a great actor, which was made evident by Erin mullally. JS was nuanced and he gave Declan character. He was a decent guy trying to be a single dad; he was uptight, broody, had anger issues, but had a good heart. I loved his relationship with Rebecca, they had great chemistry. I can see why you thought he was arrogant, but that was never the intention - I think he was frustrated a lot of time b/c of Andrew's games, and constantly being seen as a failure by Paul. How do you fight back without sinking to Andrew's level? Then EM took over, and everything bar the temper was out the window. He didn't know how to convey JS' glare without it coming off as sulky.

I liked Zeke's amnesia story up to the point he was found, which I guess isn't really the amnesia side at all. LOL. Once he was found, it was all down hill from there. They rushed the reunion, the aftermath with that guy who thought Zeke was his son, was as you say, brushed under the rug, and then the way he started to remember was badly handled as well. Then it all developed into an anxiety disorder, which was really OCD, but they never diagnosed it as such, it was always referred to as an anxiety disorder. Lame. In the middle of all this we had Sunny, and her pathetic dramas. They should have continued the story on with Zeke and that guy, b/c that was its natural direction, but they cut it abruptly. I too thought Zeke suited the radio station really well; it kinda defined his character a bit. That would've been really cool if they had done that with his broadcasts relating to the characters storylines. PirateNet was a joke though, as they portrayed it as an underground station, then as some government funded project that acted like a pirate station - it didn't make sense. I'm glad it hasn't been seen in a while, as the school buying it was another silly plot device.

I don't think being a Ramsay qualifies her as the shows golden girl, that title should be for Paul or the K's as they've got more history than Kate. I agree, she is approachable, and generally nice, but those qualities don't always make for the best of characters, otherwise some of the good guys, like Marco, wouldn't be classed as boring and dull. I liked him, BTW.

I find all these newbies quite interesting, as I had assumed one of the new doctors would be involved with Susan, so its interesting that it may be some one else entirely. I'm looking forward to this storyline. Have you noticed they're beefing up the hospital for some reason.

I don't think I can pick just one, as there have been many characters that I have loved and been mega fans of. Off the top of my head I'd say: Drew Kirk, Joel Samuels, Sarah Beaumont, Karl Kennedy, Joe Mangle, Helen Daniels, Phoebe Gottlieb, Todd Landers, Billy Kennedy, Anne Wilkinson, Flick Scully, Stuart Parker, Izzy Hoyland, Lana Crawford, Nicola West, Mishka Schneiderova, Beth Brennan, Lauren Carpenter, Julie Martin, Philip Martin, Darcy Tyler, Dee Bliss, Rosemary Daniels, Elle Robinson... the list is endless. Who's your favourite character, Ed? The show hasn't had many long-term villains outside of Paul, has it? I did like Sky, more-so before she went blonde, and definitely before she started sleeping around and having baby daddy issues. I think a lot of what made Sky so unique and independent got lost a long the way. I did like when they sent her jail and the whole Terrance/Charlotte story. I thought her and Dylan suited each other really well. From what I can remember, I liked Julie; she was my kind of character, and I loved the poisoning story with Michael, and the murder mystery party and her apparent suicide, which sadly had a terrible ending. Sadly, I don't recall much else of Julie's stories before all this. I did not like Debbie Martin. Rosie was OK. I think she was axed before her time; she brought something to the Hoylands that was needed, and it was a shame that she wasn't around to develop her relationship with her daughter Izzy, as was probably the one aspect of Izzy's character that was touched on, but ultimately left b/c, they didn't have Rosie to flesh out the backstory. If she had stayed, what would they have done with her outside of Izzy related stories? What did you think of Katya Kinski?

My posts are turning into essays!

Edited June 19, 2011 by Ben

Skylover · June 19, 2011

I loved Unforgettable! They should have played it once or twice but in the end the song was ruined because they rolled it out for every occasion. IA about Ty's exit, the kids singing him off was like the writers punishment on Dean Geyer for leaving or something As for cast departures, I don't think Bower would have axed that many characters had the actors stayed on. IMO I don't think she has axed that many characters during her tenure (I mean ones that we might not be aware of) and she seems to me like she wants the characters to settle in and the cast to be stable. I think if she was to be heavy with the axe, she qwould have been after fan reaction to the Ramsays was bad. They've made no effort to rectify the Ramsay retcon and it doesn't seem like they're going to. Bower aside, I think the lure of Hollywood is something that causes cast instability these days which wasn't there back in the 80s and 90s. So many Neighbours and H&A stars have made it in America an ultimately I think that's why there are so few people who stick around these days. To be perfectly honest, I wouldn't be surprised if Bower axed Zeke as she obviously didn't think much of the character given his terrible departure. He was sweet, and at times has been a favourite of mine, but to me he seems like a very specific character and I think the writers found it difficult to be true and consistent to the character as well as not making him annoying. In regard to what you say about PirateNet, I agree that many things about it were ridiculous. The thing with Neighbours is that the ideas behind stories are often better than the exeuction. I think bringing in PirateNet was an inspired idea and totally original, but they went about it all the wong way as you say. I think most of the characters that have left recently were deadwood, but as you say, of course there were others like Rebecca and Lyn who were fabulous characters and will be sorely missed. It felt like Lyn barely featured during her last few months on the show and it was such a shame.

I agree about the behaviour between Lyn and Rebecca being childish. The change was natural, but once again I think it's a case of the idea behind it being good, but the execution just fell flat. It was very childish. I didn't want Lyn to become between Paul and Rebecca, but I still felt they could have shown a bit more how Lyn was feeling still in love with Paul. She told Susan in the season finale and it was literally never mentioned again. It seemed like there was no point in actually highlightin the fact in the first place.

As for the Rachel/Angus story, I understand why that would be controversial in real life, but in the context of a soap, as long as it was handled sensitively I don't see what the big deal is. I agree that Angus shouldn't have gone there, but from what I remember it seemed to be Rachel doin all the chasing and being unable to let go and while Angus should have been more firm, there's no denying that Rachel was far more persistent. I liked that angle to the story though as Angus wasn't a pervert, he just happened to find himself in an extremely difficult situation and although he acted stupidly, he did so out of love for Rachel. You're right that Angus was painted as the bad guy upon his return, but since Bower's taken the reigns complexity is something the show often fails to achieve with some of its more controversial characters. Angus turning into the bad guy, Sam becoming a bitch and her bipolar being forgotten about which could have been a drivin force story-wise during her return in '08. Nicola was also a casualty of this. They failed to achieve complexity with her, trying to paint her as the bad person and it toally backfired just making the Parkers look heartless and uncaring.

The Chris/Aiden story should be handled sensitively. I'm hoping they'll do it justice as surely many fans will be offended if they treat the couple any differently, particularly fans from the UK who are used to gay couples in soaps. I guess we'll have to see what happens. That story is the one I'm looking forward to the most in the next couple of months and I hope, for he sake of the show and the producers, that they pull this off. Because there's two ways this can go; everyone loves the couple and the portrayal, or people call for Bower's dismissal once again for treating us all like idiots. I think Chris' family are badly needed in the show right now. For me as a gay man, I would like to see him interact with his parents, and it would be interesting to see how his parents react to the news that he's got a boyfriend, and it would be great to see him introducing Aiden to them. Unfortunately at this stage I think it's quite unlikely. That would certainly bring more to Chris' character though, as I don't want his sexuality to constantly be used in stories. I don't think it's even worth mentioning the Home and Away story, it was totally offensive. Fair enough, Charlie may have been bi or what have you, but Charlie/Joey were quite popular as a pairing and the producers used a plot device of Charlie sleeping with Hugo (which didn't make any sense) to pave the way for Joey's exit. Pathetic.

Oh and I'm so glad that you liked Saffron!! I almost mentioned that in my last post, but I thought you'd disagree about her being a great character. Yeah, she was painted as a panto villain but once again it's a character whose complexities weren't clearly portrayed. Everyone seemed to hate her but I would have loved to have got to know her more and you're right, we were suppsoed to feel sorry for Donna but in the end I started resenting the girl because she seemed to act so immature all the time. Yeah, her designs were bad. I loved how Saffron was firm with her, but also saw potential in Donna and seemed to deep down have a sort of affection for her even if she was a hard-faced b*tch. Some of her characterisitcs remind me of an early Morag Bellingham. Ugh, you've brought it all back with the Donna dithering with the letters stuff. There were so many times during that period when a character would do something totally irrational and unrealistic, and you just wanted to slap them round the face. They tried to make story out of contrived situations, didn't they? I recall a time when so many characters would do something bad, be about to own up, then another character would 'heroically' take the rap for it. Totally stupid.

As for James Sorensen, we'll have to disagree on that one. Everyone saw him as the star of the show, but I really hated him. I felt that James Sorensen saw himself as the star of the show, and whilst I agree that he had great chemistry with Rebecca, his constant arrogant and know-it-all attitude really got on my nerves. To me his acting seemed like reading from the script in scenes, but everyone loved him. For some reason I just never clicked with that character.

I agree that being a Ramsay doesn't qualify Kate to be the golden girl but it wouldn't surprise me if that's TPTB's reason for pushing her into storylines. I know she's quite an unpopular character, and maybe being approachable and nice doesn't make her a great character, but she's just someone I identify with. imagine her being a friend, someone I'd pop round to have a coffee with. I guess some people just like characters that others don't, much like how I don't like Declan but many people do. Some of Kate's characteristics are annoying, yeah, but on the whole I want her to be happy and I see many of her faults as resulting frm the responsibilties she has had heaped upon her in the last few years.

I notice you didn't list many of the long-term characters as your favourites! Sky Mangel is probably my all-time favourite character, followed by Julie Martin even if she wasn't in the show for very long. Funny you should mention Katya, she's definitely up there with my favourites but she's another one who many hated. I see her as a guilty pleasure but I also think she's probably the sole character who represents what was wrong with Neighbours during its OTT phase. She was pretty much involved in all of its ridiculous stories, from Guy to being in a relationship with Robert. I mean, in a year or two she was shot, nearly fell off a cliff, stole cars, was revealed as a prostitute in her past, was kidnapped, it was never-ending LOL. But I loved that disaster followed her everywhere in a sadistic kind of way. It was kind of like 'what's going to happen to Katya next?' LOL.

I see you say that Declan could have stayed on "but everyone was dragging the show down in one way or another which I didn't wuite see at the time" - what do you mean by that comment about the 08-10 era? Do you think the characters were good but the writing was bad, or that the characters weren't quite working. Why didn't you realise that and what has made you come to that conlusion later on? I definitely think 2011 has been a turning point, so much seem to be working in the show's favour at the moment, it still has problems, but far fewer than this time last year.

No problem with posts becoming essays, it makes for good discussion and I think that's happening to mine now too

Ben · June 22, 2011

I don't think they will ever retcon the Ramsays, or willingly axe any member of their family, and that's b/c Bower introduced them and gave sanction to their storyline, and changing any part of that due to fan reaction would be equivalent to admitting you were wrong, and she never does that. Hollywood has been a big problem for cast instability, but I don't blame actors for wanting to try their luck over there, but I do feel if the show had been in a better shape during these periods, maybe some would have been more willing to stay for a little longer, like a year. I think Bower loved Zeke, especially in the beginning, as she treated him like her golden boy; he was constantly on the front-burner for 2 years, getting story after story, and was the most heavily used teen during that period (bar Donna). But in 2010, there was a lot of negative reaction to the teen scene and the majority of Zeke's plots from the past 2 years, that once the show started to transition itself, Zeke was placed on the backburner, never really receiving much to do at all. I think his exit was quite representational of that and how irrelevant he had become, especially as Andrew was on the scene and proving popular and getting all the storylines. Execution has always been an issue for Neighbours in recent years, and IA that PirateNet was quite original in a way, but it seemed like they hadn't properly thought it through, like a lot of things. I've noticed how sidelined Lyn has been, and that's a shame. What worse is her departure has become all about Summer & Andrew and less about a long-term character leaving the show. I'm sure Lyn only had one scene telling Susan about her leaving, yet Summer gets a whole story out of it. Disgraceful. Or, either it's b/c the characters become irrelevant in Bower's mind, and thus the crummy exits, or it's a product of those actors quitting and some form of punishment? I can't really explain it. It's not just Zeke and Lyn, but Declan, too, and Rebecca, who was in the middle of so much story, but they rushed it and crammed it all into 2 episodes. Libby's exit was quite disappointing as well.

I figured they were trying to give her behaviour more relatability and make it seem more justified. It didn't, and was pointless.

I liked that Rachel was persistent, but it felt like Angus had no backbone. It was being treated like a love story, but they'd only met a couple of time in a club, and then at school, that it felt a little rushed. I remember that scene where they had sex, but were still wearing all their clothes, and it was difficult to tell what they had done other than sit close together on the sofa, was badly handled. Complexity has been no existent since Bower started, to the point where it feels like she has no idea what complex actually is. Granted, she tried it with Paul trapping Rebecca in a loveless marriage, but they never explored that dynamic much at all. I hated the way Nicola was treated by the Parkers, and how Steve took no responsibility at all, even though he goaded and pushed a mentally distressed person into poisoning him. Would Nicola have done if Steve hadn't of berated her? No of course not. He threatened her and she reacted, and he should have taken responsibility. But Steve never too account for any of his actions - he did the same when Nicola revealed she was in love with him (go figure) and that he knew and encouraged her all those years ago, but of course, it was all Nicola's fault. Horrible character.

IA about the direction it could take. Chris' family would be great to see, as it's important to the story and character, and feels like it's a natural extension that should be explored; without it, I think it'll feel like something is missing. Maybe they'll throw in some random lines about how pleased his 'rents are, or how nervous Chris is about introducing Aidan to them, but then it all turning out fine off screen. Maybe Chris working with Lucas will give him more story scope? H&A's Charlie was offensive on so many levels, but I think it was all a PR stunt that backfired on them. Sadly, they threw Charlie and Joey under the bus to achieve it.

Saffron is my kind of character. I find the ones that are bitches and bastards are usually the ones that will have hidden depth and be the most fascinating to explore. Nice guy characters have their place, too, are more difficult to write for in a sense, and a lot of the times many people seem to find them boring or bland (like Chris and Marco). What did you think of Marco Silvani? I loved the scene when Saffron's designs flopped and she went into the bathroom to breakdown, opening up about her struggles. I think the industry made Saffron into the hard-faced bitch that she was, and in some ways resented Donna for retaining her good natured qualities. I also think she saw a bit of Donna in herself or vis-versa. When Saffron later popped back up, I think that resentment had turned into jealousy b/c Donna had an (apparent) eye for detail and looked like to be heading into a budding career, whereas Saffron was failing. They could have explored so much more with this dynamic, and had her interact with more characters, but they didn't. Saffron was the saving grace of some of those teen-centric episodes. I hated all those contrived, irrational situations that nearly every character found themselves in one after the other. I wanted to shake them and slap some sense into them. Zeke always seemed to be the worst offender, with Donna in close second. Taking the fall for another character has it's place, and can come off quite noble, but all of those situations were just plain silly, and made the characters (Zeke, again!) look like their brains had been replaced by rocks.

What gave you the impression that JS saw himself as the star of the show? That's really random, and I never once saw that. When did he come across as a no-it-all? Did you always feel this way, or was it something that happened towards the end? Did you like Declan when he first started? Pre or post Didge? Did your opinion change when EM took over the role?

I think Kate's unpopular b/c she dominated a lot of unpopular stories for nearly over a year - remember her dancing? *Cringe* And had that Super Woman phase where she worked at Harold's, was a teaching assistant, professional dancer, Uni student, home-maker, looking after Sophie, socializing, a not-so silent partner in Donna's business... the list was endless. And then she'd complain about having too much responsibility, when she brought it all on herself! People haven't forgiven her for all of that, and coupled with her annoying qualities, I think it all goes against her. She's a lot better now, thanks to Jade, but she still has her annoying moments when the show props her POV over other characters, like Mark. Mark never technically lied to Kate, he just chose not to tell her something, but she gave a false alibi in a police investigation, and that should trump anything Mark did to her.

Paul and Libby would have been on the list, but I didn't want to go on. At the time, the long-term characters were just like the others, and I was more drawn to the others, and that hasn't changed over the years. It just so happens that Toadie and Susan went on to become veterans, while Drew, Sarah, Flick, Phoebe, etc didn't. I loved Katya, she was misunderstood by many. I loved all of her dramas, even though some of them, like Guy Sykes were bad. I wanted her stay on, b/c I knew she'd be a source for drama and conflict if ever they were to dry up on RS. What did you think of the Katya/Max story?

I liked all of those characters, and didn't really want to believe that they were dragging the show down. I thought they could be fixed and everything would be fine; it was a case of good characters, bad writing. Once they had all left, the show seemed to improve. Was it the writing, or was it that the characters had served their purpose? The show has improved a lot this year, and think that's b/c they've gone "back to basics" and are using the characters to drive story a lot more instead of piling on plots in the hope that something would stick. I think the budget cuts have forced them to be more about quality in their direction and less stylistic.

Essay posts are a bitch to write, though... Especially when I'm writing an actual essay!

Skylover · June 28, 2011

I agree that Bower would never axe a Ramsay, and would probably not axe any character that has been introduced during her reign. I think the Ramsays can be great at times though, their backstory is complete sh*t, and it's a shame that Bower won't just rectify the story so that they aren't actually Ramsays. I think more people would warm to them then. I've always thought that their father, Patrick Mooney(?) should turn up, despite supposedly being dead, and take their story in a different direction. After all, Paul was the one who was told by an unidentified source that the dad was dead, so it could easily turn out that he wasn't. I don't really know how I'd write their backstory to correct it though. I mean what we know so far is extremely random and ill-thought out; the random will of Helen's which describes Jill as 'the unfortunate child' her daughter was carrying, the pendant/necklace found by Elle under the Ramsay house, where can you take the story with these facts? I don't know about specific details, but I'd like it to turn out that the mother was mentally unstable and drove the father away. If Patrick ever contacted the Ramsays again, he could confirm this. We know that Jill supposedly faked presents from the father for Christmas etc. but maybe it turns out they were from him after all. Maybe Jill tried to forge a new identity to get some money out of the Robinsons? I think you're more likly to come up with better specifics for a potential storyline, Ben...

As for the cast during the last five years, I still think it hasn't been any more unstable than any other period of the show. We have had characters who have had long stays, such as Zeke (6 years), Elle and Rachel (4 years), Carmella (on and off for 5 years). I do think it's the producer's responsibility to talk the actors round and to keep them for longer, I suspect this is what happened with Pippa Black as she was reported as leaving a year earlier than she did but ended up staying on, though I think Bower could have been more persuasive on more occasions. I think Margot's one who should have been persuaded, as well as Jane Hall.

I don't think Zeke was a favourite of Bower's, but I think she tried to develop the character as until her arrival, he had gone pretty much without a story that revolved around him, and she fleshed out the character a lot which I think was needed, as he was proving pretty pointless otherwise. Rachel had already featured in several high profile stories so I see it as natural that Zeke got the spotlight for a little while, and fair too seeing as Matthew seemed pretty dedicated to the show. He was great as lot of the time, but he featured in too many shouty, angsty scenes which brought the character down as he seemed to broody and annoying.

You're spot on with the cast departures. I was disappointed with Zeke's, as they just didn't really make much of a fuss, ano be fair Declan had become such a mess by the time he left I was relieved that they barely focused on him, but Rebecca and Lyn's exits are inexcusable. Both characters were extremely important the show in one way or another, and it was stupid that their exits wo remembered fondly. I think Lyn's departure reflects how the producers think Neighbours is just a teen show, and it annoys me no end. Why do Cameron Welsh (H&A) and Susan Bower think that these fantastic multi-generational shows should be aimed so narrowly at the teen market? For decades they worked and were successful focusing on the entire community, but have become shadows of their former selves at the hands of such incapable individuals.

On NFans they're saying that Chris' father, named George, apparently appears in the next block of episodes and doesn't approve of Chris' choice to work at the garage. I think that's a great move. You're right about those sorts of characters, they're definitely the most fascinating to watch. I don't really have much of an opinion on Marco. I didn't love him or hate him. I think he was a nice sort of a character, but I don't think that Carmella was especially suited to him. Looking at her past relationships, it seemed like she liked a bit of drama and to go for someone who represented a bit of danger. With Marco also being Italian, there wasn't much scope for drama with her family. She loved being with Connor because he was the complete antithesis of what type of family she came from. And I think it would have been interesting had they continued on with that theme. Having said that, I can see why they invented Marco for Carmella; as she was pregnant I suppose it is natural that she would have gone for the safe option and someone who would be a good father figure for Chloe, but they lacked chemistry in comparison to Carm/Connor. I was never a fan of Carmella and Oliver. Funny that the actors are now an item in real life.

Carmella's another character who was a casualty of having a great story which failed in execution; becoming a nun. I remember at the time being totally shocked that they were bringing her back as a nun, purely because I thought it would be a stupid shock plot that would be over within a few months and never mentioned again. It was an interesting development, especially the reasons for shy she became a nun. Such guilt over selling her cousin's baby. But it's a shame she was only ever a nun because of that. They writers made it seem that she never was trul religious, but only was so in order to redeem herself for what she had done. I think it would have been more interesting if they'd kept that aspect to the character. They didn't have to go on about it all the time, but I thought it was a shame we never saw Carmella's behaviour being influeced by her faith. In soap you only tend to see religious people who turn out to be psychotic (H&A and EE are heavily guilty of this) or characters who preach down our throats and tend to be old (Dot Branning, Harold Bishop). Just because Natalie Blair and Carmella were gorgeous, they didn't keep that aspect to the character and it right p*ssed me off. However, I was pleased with Carmella's final scene where she gave Harold her rosary beads.

I also love that scene where Saffron broke down. You're right, she should have interacted with more characters. And yes, she definitely did save some teen-centric episodes. Though many others don't agree for some reason and hated the character.

I think I liked Declan when he first started. I've always thought that James Sorensen was extremely attractive, and on a superficial level that's probably why I liked him at the start. I also think he was a fairly convincing bad boy. But I thought the writers played up to the love tory so much and it was too much of a fairytale for me. I hated Bridget, which I suppose didn't help, so I was never truly invested in that story. Another problem was that I really liked Kate, and didn't like how he quickly forgot about Bridget and was willing to date Kate, as well as being hot and cold with her all the time which I know I should empathise with, but just didn't. He treated her so appallingly and then started being really sickly and lovey-dovey with Kate seeming like he was in love with her, and totally forgot about Bridget on many occasions. They mentioned her on a superficial level just so that fans wouldn't be p*ssed off, but I never liked Declan's actions towards the end. I think it just annoyed me how his character was so linked to girls that he could barely stand on his own in a scene without being glud to either Bridget, or Kate. Yes, that was the problem, I think - I just hated his relationship storylines! I don't know what made me think that he saw himself as the star of the show, other than that the producers clearly thought that too as they shunted him to the front of storylines constantly and his attitude came off as such.

I found Erin Mullally less annoying than JS. I know that's a minority view, and I know EM was a very poor actor, but I just found the actorless grating. Granted, he wasn't suited to the re-cast as other than a passing facial resemblance to JS, everything else was different. I was just glad that JS was gone.

I loved Kate's dancing storylines; I'm starting to sound like a broken record again, but...execution fails here once again. The poor girl was given extremely poor stories to deal with in this regard. I loved her dancing when she was with Sunny at no.28, but more effort should have been put into the routines so that the audience would have been really impressed. They gave her some cheesey outfits and some poor routines, and the audience was left feeling that Kate didn't deserve to be a dancer. This is the 21st century, and I think SB failed to realise that when you tackle something like that, you have to go the whole hog especially with programmes like Scrictly Come Dancing etc on these days. It annoyed me that her dancing stories were just suddenly dropped. Couldn't they have upped their game and actually made Ashleigh learn some awesome routines? Instead she is now randomly becoming a teacher, which we never even knew she wanted to do before now.

I liked the Katya/Max story. I can see why many wouldn't have liked it because they seemed like the most unlikely pairing you could have made out of the cast, but Katya needed guidance and she saw someone normal in Max. After everything she'd been through, and not having ha a parental figure for her early adult years, she loved the loyalty and dependability she saw in Max. I'm glad they weren't ever actually together because it would have been out of character for the Max character, but then his character ended up being destroyed anyway so would it have been that bad had he left Steph for Katya? I agree she should have stayed on the show, she was a theatrical kind of character but she is definitely one of my favourites of all time. I love Max running over Cameron!

I think this year it has improved because they pretty much have a clean slate. The 20-something gang aren't too hard to write for and are my favourites at the moment. With Donna et al. I think it was difficult for them to decide what direction to take them in after having been teens at the school. Those friendships didn't especially ring true though. I much prefer the teen group we have now. The Cris/Tash friendship is something I would like to see develop. Perhaps while Andrew and Summer are axed are spending all their time together, C/T can get closer.

You're right, these posts are difficult to write, that's why I took so long to reply. Few things ( ) - What did you think of the Martin family, and the Scully families at first? Do you thinkm the show was right to axe Phil and Ruth Martin, in order to bring a nuclear family in with the Scully's? What do you think of the Izzy/Karl/Susan plot?

Sorry for all the questions!

BadBoy93 · June 30, 2011

Really enjoying Neighbours right now. A Small cast = More Development.

Natasha is shaping up to be an Australian Janine Butcher. Her & Summer are really good females right now. The one character i would ditch would be Lucas sadly. I would bring back Harold on a similar contract like Lou has. Appearing on a recurring basis.

Really enjoying Neighbours right now. A Small cast = More Development.

Natasha is shaping up to be an Australian Janine Butcher. Her & Summer are really good females right now. The one character i would ditch would be Lucas sadly. I would bring back Harold on a similar contract like Lou has. Appearing on a recurring basis.

Really enjoying Neighbours right now. A Small cast = More Development.

Natasha is shaping up to be an Australian Janine Butcher. Her & Summer are really good females right now. The one character i would ditch would be Lucas sadly. I would bring back Harold on a similar contract like Lou has. Appearing on a recurring basis.

Ben · July 3, 2011

Yeah, Elle was meant to leave a year earlier, but Bower persuaded her to stay on, which I'm happy she did. I'm glad Margot left when she did, as I've said before that Donna was dragging a lot of stories down (as well as Kate) with her immature antics. Jane Hall should have been talked into staying for a bit longer, even if it had just been 4-6 months, as her exit was rushed and crammed together with way too many plot points that nearly damaged Rebecca. She needed a little bit longer to naturally tie-up all her storylines. Also, Oliver & Carmella should have returned for a weeks worth of eps, instead of cramming them in to 2 eps, and neglecting all of Carmella's history with all of the other characters. It's weird, b/c they dragged out the Paul/Rebecca story for 6 months (and they barely touched the surface with that dynamic), and then rushed the resolution.

I'd never thought of that before, but it makes it sense. I guess I saw Bower developing Zeke to mean that she favoured him, but may be she didn't, and he just happened to be involved in a lot of stories. ITA about all the shout-y, angst-y scenes that he got - they were too many. Broody was something that never suited Zeke at all. I think they took him down the wrong path, which nearly ruined the character. I did like what they were doing with him in 2008, when he made friends with Kyle and those other guys; Zeke and Kyle seemed to have a mutual respect for each other. But, when he returned sans memory, it all fell apart, and in came Sunny, the mis-handled PirateNet, Mia and all of her dodge antics surrounding animal activists, getting arrested, etc... so bad.

ITA completely. I think Lyn's exit being overshadowed by Andrew & Summer really does reflect the attitudes and vision that Bower has for the show - the adults are second class to the teens. Something that has vexed me, is the miss opportunities with the returnees. Carmella never shared any scenes with none of the characters that she knew outside of her story bubble, and instead, for some reason, Oliver got the only scene with Toadie - a scene that should have rightly gone to Carmella, who lived with the guy for several years! Harold has been back, and he never shared a scene with Lyn, not even when they were in the same episode at her farewell party! He has yet to share a scene with Paul, even though they have all that history. Yet, they managed to write a scene where Harold met Kate! Why Kate of all people? Why not Lyn, Paul, Lucas, Libby, or Summer - people that he actually knows? This is the one element that lets Harold's return down - he's not interacting naturally with characters who are outside of his story bubble. Lyn didn't even get to say goodbye to Karl - he just had to be working. At least with Mal, he only knows K&S and Lou, so they can't really deprive him of important scenes with those that he knows. It is weird how Neighbours and H&A have been transformed (the former especially) into teen soaps, especially when Australia's #1 show, Packed to the Rafters, is a multi-generational show. Surely that should tell TPTB that Neighbours could have the same broad appeal, like it used to.

I was wondering who George was. It'll be nice to see their relationship develop, and hopefully this means his parents will be around when Chris meets Aidan.

Ivan has arrived on UK screens last week, and now that I have the chance to watch her story more closely, Ivan definitely is creepy, and he does look older than 28. I loved how Tash had the opportunity to buy herself beer, but chose not to. I think that was very telling in showing that she's more sensible that what she appears. I also liked how Andrew was still concerned for her, even after everything.

The only time I ever liked Connor was when he was w/ Carmella; they suited each other so well. I liked Carmella with Marco, but you're right, the scope for drama wasn't as apparent as it could have been if he wasn't Italian, or even if he had a different personality. I liked him, and preferred him to Oliver. I was so over the ECO triangle, that I'm not sure which couple I was rooting for, or if any. I think I just wanted it to end, and every time it did, it would start up again, with Oliver flip-flopping between Carmella and Elle. I think I slightly preferred Oliver & Carm over Oliver & Elle, but I never really liked Oliver, so non of the pairings really worked for me. I think it shows the difference between actors and their characters, that Nat & David do seem suited to each other, even if Carm & Oliver don't. What were your thought on the Carmella/Marco/Elle/Oliver/Mia group that popped up in 2007-08? Did you like any of their stories?

I loved Sister Catherine. I think the story was always about Carmella turning to religion to ease her conscience, and guide her in the right direction. I don't think it was ever supposed to be about her becoming a nun out of some divine calling. I would have liked it if they had shown how religion had become more important to her over time, something that she had grown into, as oppose to it being a plot device. I liked that scene, too, when she gave Harold her Rosary beads. I think you pretty much said what I've just said, just differently. Religion and religious characters do get a raw break in soaps, and that's a shame. Really, they should get treated the same as any other group, but no-one seems to complain about the negative portrayal of religion. If they're not psychos, then they're a bible-basher, or if you're Emmerdale's Rev. Ashley, you get persecuted and made the village pariah just b/c you don;t share others beliefs on assisted suicide.

I think we will have to agree to disagree on JS and Declan. I never liked Bridget, and I don't understand how others do, b/c I don't see anything to like. I think Declan was her saving grace. Steve was another character who was also severely dislikeable. It is a minority view to like EM's Declan, but not as much as admitting to liking Kate's dancing! All of those points are reason to hate the storyline, especially since that period was all about ask the actors what they're hobbies are and weave them into the storylines, making it seem like TPTB were creatively bankrupt. Ashleigh can dance, but not the style they wanted Kate to learn. Why not have Kate dance to what Ashleigh does best, thus working to the actors strengths? The routines sucked, and looked like little-to-no effort had been put into the storyline. They should have sent Ashleigh to dance lessons, and they should never have written Kate as a master dancer, and being the best thing since sliced bread, especially when she would be performing a sub-par routine that looked liked a 5 year old could do a better job, and Rebecca would be congratulating her on being awesome and impressing her business clients, when all she would be doing is tipping her hat and slowly twirling around! It made everyone look stupid, and the actors uncomfortable. All this is why I was glad when she chose teaching. Granted, it was random, but anything was better than the pathetic dancing.

Max & Katya would've worked had he not been with Steph. It was one of those, another time, another place, pairings. I remember Max's fantasies involving those AFL players, and how they seemed to drag on. At the time, no-one would have bought Max leaving Steph, or having an affair with Katya, so it would never have worked regardless of what the future held. Max living with another family and splitting from Steph was weird and out of character, but that's another story. I miss Cameron. What a waste he was. I really wish they would have Robert get in touch with Paul, wanting to build bridges, or have Paul want to fix his relationship with his son. I think that would be a good story.

They didn't really know where to take the other teens. There's still a lot of scope with this group, and it's not just the Chris/Tash friendship that needs developing, but also Chris/Andrew. They never really did anything after Chris came out and revealed he was crushing on Andrew.

I'll answer those last questions, and the Ramsay story idea, later, once I have more time.

Why would you get rid of Lucas? Do you think he's run his course or something?

Edited July 7, 2011 by Ben

Ben · July 7, 2011

I don't remember the Martins intro, but I always liked Julie, Michael, and Phil. Hannah was OK; she had her annoying moments, but she didn't grate on me like she did for some people. I loved her relationship with Helen, and it was fitting that Helen would pass away beside Hannah. I did think that Michelle Scully reminded me a bit of Hannah. Debbie, I couldn't stand. I thought she was boring and annoying, always miserable and whining about something. She didn't get on with Julie, did she?

The Scullys were a mixed bag for me. Lyn was really OTT and annoying, but those idiosyncrasies and foibles were character traits that I grew to love. She actually reminds me a lot of a mate's Mum, who is Tasmanian. I loved how all the girls upon arriving, all set their sights on a guy, and how different each approached the same subject. I loved Flick. I read that the show believed she was a younger version of Izzy, and represented what Izzy probably would've been like at that age (I bet Tash is moulded from the cloth). Mitchell had some really vexing moments, and never fully came into her own until she grew up. I liked Lyn & Joe, and was quite surprised to learn they never got on in real life. Then there was the debacle surrounding his firing, which was badly handled.

As much as the Martins were disbanding, they had gone to the effort of pairing Phil with Ruth (another character who I found dull) and her ready-made family in Anne and Lance, so I was surprised when they fired Phil, Ruth and Hannah. Maybe it's b/c I found Ruth boring, but it did get to a point where it felt like they'd done all they could with Ruth, and considering they wanted to bring in a larger nuclear family, I can see why they chose to send Phil & Ruth off together, much like Steve & Miranda Parker. Was it the right decision? What stories could Phil & Ruth have had?

My all time favourite Neighbours storyline (I think) is the Susan/Karl/Izzy triangle. I loved everything about it. I loved how it began with Karl & Izzy becoming friends, and how they never cheated on Susan at all. The breakdown of the K's marriage was believable (if not a little random at fist), and the range of emotions that effected all concerned was well played. Karl and Susan needed to be broken up, and TPTB were brave enough to go there, and craft a well written story about revitalising two much loved characters. Susan needed to explore who she was as an independent woman, while Izzy breathed new life into Karl. I was more of a Kizzy fan than a Kusan fan, and I think it was testament to the show that Kizzy developed a strong fan base, and divided opinion. They represent all that was good about 2004, b/c they took risks with the characters. If the show had continued to do that, and would do that today without being worried about censors and stuff, things would be a lot better. The fact that they now choose to self sensor when they could be PG for odd episodes, is weird and silly.

The Ramsay story does have a lot of specific facts that does restrain it from being undone. I'd bring back their father, who isn't dead, and make him a (now) successful business man. I would definitely keep an air of ambiguity about Patrick. I like him to be introduced through Lassister's, and Paul can take an instant dislike to him. Maybe Patrick could be with Lucy (I forget of she has a family off screen), which would create conflict. Does he know that his kids live in the area? I'd have Paul find out and keep it secret from Kate & Sophie. The will can easily be explained as fake, as those words that Helen supposedly said don't ring true at all, while that locket could have been planted there by Patrick. I'd probably say that the plan was cooked up by Jill & Patrick, b/c they were struggling financially after "going straight", or perhaps Jill could have had a mental illness that was driving her and influencing her decisions. Patrick would've got cold feet and bailed on their plan and their marriage - maybe he couldn't take her behaviour any longer? The only stumbling block is their motive for targeting the Robinsons, and I'm unsure of why they would've picked them for such an elaborate scam. Maybe, Paul appeared in the paper, or maybe Jill's real mother or father knew either Ann Robinson or Max Ramsay...? I'd love for all this to be unravelled through a flashback episode.

What do you think of Taodie & Sonya? Were you a fan of Drew, Joel, Sarah, Dee and Tess? How about the infamous Hancocks?

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