Loving/The City Discussion Thread

[Vee]

I don't understand why Maggie Rush disappeared off the face of the Earth. I wish OLTL had snapped her up to play opposite one of the Gannon brothers.

[SFK]

She'd still make for a great Jesse/Angie third wheel on Children.

[Vee]

Oh, God. I would trip out if Lorraine showed up. Only Agnes would think of that! But I prefer to think of her as happy in SoHo still with Nick Rivers.

[SFK]

Indeed, she and Nick were a great match. But I would love some Angie, "Lorraine!? Girrrl, just when I thought I was rid of your ass..."

[DRW50]

February 1987 Digest

[SFK]

That picture is hilarious. R.I.P. Roya.

[EricMontreal22]

It really had its own special appeal, and I think you sum it up well. Actually, when the Seattle network started airing it after Nightline at midnight or so for its last 6 months (I as in grade 11 or so, so could stay up that late by then lol) it actually really felt "in place" as a late night soap for some reason--I'd enjoy unwinding to it right before bed. It never was too strong on story, honestly (though I think the writing for the final 6 months was very strong--lots of great character work, a good mix of drama and genuinely funny comedy like when Tracy hired actors to play her Quartermaine family), but the characters grew on you an were largely strongly defined especially once they settled on the final cast, and the style really felt fresh. I know much of the soap press didn't agree (and the first few months had some of the camera work trying too hard) but.

I really think ti never had a chance with its time slot. If it had been late afternoon it could have caught more of a teen and university student audience who might have taken to the younger (dare I say slightly hipper) characters, mix of styles, and 30 minute episodes, but nobody I knew in university would watch a show at 11 am (where it originally aired here--with he news at 11:30 and then AMC). Though they probably would have make the cast teens, it actually would havge looked a lot better than much of the programming MTV tried at the time. I don't know if it was because it was greenlit before Disney bought ABC or what, but once it got on air there seemed very little faith behind it, though I understand it was expensive to shoot which is probably what ultimately did it in.

" At times, the show reminds me of the European soaps (both the British and the German)."

I definitely agree. When Burke moved to AMC I kinda hoped SOME of the City innovations would carry over there, though I guess they didn't wanna rock the boat too much.

And yes, I loved Lorraine too. I also liked Nick--I know at one point Roscoe said it was his favorite role because it was just so refreshing to play a realistic guy and not a psycho. Even Zoey who at first came off too wanna be hip, grew into her own (and I liked her with Richard--ABC was all about Aussie hunksthen--Ingo was big on GH, and of course Richard and the despicable horrible Tanner Jordan on AMC were bothcast around the same time with well liked actors from Aussie teen soap Heartbreak High--which I admit I loved when it would air before school here in Canada).

[EricMontreal22]

It's too bad they didn't hire a better actor to play transexual Azure C--I think that was part of the reason the story fizzled (though the early social stories they did--like the racial attacks on Angie's clinic--all fizzled, but the actress simply wasn't very good.

(And man that OLTL commercial--sigh Joey and the Woman in White at the Lake or whoever... lol)

[EricMontreal22]

I somehow missed this post, but I think you perfectly defined Loving (at its best), why I find it so appealing but also why it never really stuck or had a full identity (things like time slot aside.) Its worse era for me seems to be some of the late 80s stuff (after Nixon's sting after Marland) under Ellis, etc, with all the corporate stuf fwhere it seems to have most lost its small town community identity. It's really too bad Soapnet never reran the full series--I think particularly to vintage soap fans now it holds a lot of appeal.

Some of the problems are just in concept, IMHO--Agnes Nixon and Dan Wakefield apparently first created it with Dan (who wrote the book I always mention All Her Children and had then become friends with Agnes but also who was a very strong novelist with books like Starting Over and Going All The Way, both which he adapted into movies, and the cult 70s teen primetime drama James at 15 which Kevin Williamson says was the inspiration for Dawson's Creek). But he felt overwhelmed and backed down so she then worked with Marland (I suppose from the start she didn't think she had the time to be its headwriter) who obviously helped shape the initial setup himself, despite, it seems, finding it hard to work with her. Still both their concepts seemed to be a "return to basics" (basics being a sort of early 1970s AMC), just at a time when soaps, even AMC, were becoming more glamorous and about big business.

[EricMontreal22]

Yeah he was always a drip. In the final story with him and Ally and Danny and Carla Soleito (why didn't that actress ever go on to more soap greatness??) the story only worked because everyone (yes, including Laura Wright) were strong in their material and Tonyw as kinda believable as the dumb guy. But wow--he was mildly cute, but the one City character (from the last 6 months) who I couldn't stand.

[EricMontreal22]

I think Tracy helped add that jolt, but I actually kinda liked the element you describe. I remember around the time they were just starting to experiment with websoaps which were not great but were sorta done like youw ere eavesdropping on an apartment filled with characters for five mins (I forget the name of the specific websoap I'm referencing...) Watching The City often was like a much better done version of this, and it was fun tunning in for 20 mins (if I taped it) a day and just getting a brief update.

Have you watched Heartbreak High?

[DRW50]

I think a lot of Loving would be more popular today, since they seemed to generally have an appealing, talented cast of all age ranges, and some fun characters. The show's biggest problem seemed to be lack of identity. That's something which is now common on soaps.

I do think Loving, visually, looked good, sometimes very good. Someone clearly cared. SOD gave them a nod for best sets in 1986. If you watch some of the 1987 episodes saynotoursoap put up, some of the sets are so detailed.

[Vee]

Nope.

[EricMontreal22]

It actually was pretty good--a sorta more "gritty" Degrassi, that aired on a basic cable station here in Canada but since then a friend of mine who grew up with the series in Australia has gone on about what a teen phenomenon it was there. Based on a movie with much of the cast (The Heartbreak Kid) it ran for about 6 or so years, but Corey was only in the first few--Alex Dimitriades, who is probably most famous for jerking off on screen in the (actually very very good) Aussie gay film Head On about the greek immigrant issue in Australia was the first main "lead" with Corey being supporting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQBcKlORvfE

Vince Poletto (Tanner on AMC) came the second year http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOpGjpFAJ6U

[JWDrama1980]

http://thesoapoperasaga.blogspot.com/2013/03/soap-opera-weekly-cover-april-2-1991.html