If this lethargy continues, when will daytime die forever?

[Ann_SS]

I did not know that the Wheel and "Jeopardy" were syndicated. In my area, in the morning ABC airs "Who wants to be a Millionaire" and "Family Feud" is on one of those syndicated networks. "The Price is Right" is at 11:00 a.m. before the noon news and Y&R. I have never even heard of "Merv Griffin's Crosswords." Most of the morning programming consists of cheap local talk shows and several different court shows.

It is possible that the soaps will be like the Phoenix and rise out of the ashes. The 30 minute format may be their last chance. This will cut costs and still bring profit. It may also help improve the quality of some of the soaps. I see GL going to 30 minutes before it is finally canceled. Also, if the networks can find a way to increase their profit from advertising on the Internet, there may be Web based 30 minutes soaps targeting the younger audience.

[brimike]

HUGE STANDING OVATION FOR THIS POST!!!!!!!!

It's exactly what will happen, and it's what many insiders are absolutely predicting will happen.

Sadly, these shows need to go away for a few years, for a new generation of soaps with clean records can step forward.

[MarkH]

Hey, part of Y&R's popularity in Canada was that it aired in the 4-7 pm slot on Canwest Global.

Does anyone know if the ratings in Canada have fallen at the same rate? That would speak to (a) the effect of timeslot, and ( the extent to which the distaste for soaps in their current form has become global.

We've seen shrinking ratings for our shows in Germany, the Netherlands, Britain, France and Australia (with resulting cancellations in every one of those countries). I'm going to assume Y&R shows the same decline slope in Canada, but I'd really love to know. Can anyone say?

[allatwitter]

Speaking for myself, a former soap viewer, I would hope any changes in the industry would include a concerted effort to be more diverse. As a black woman I didn't leave voluntarily I was pushed away. It makes no sense that in 2008 things are much worse than they were 20, 40 years ago. I would never encourage my daughter to watch soaps in their current state. I grew up watching Drucilla and Olivia on Y&R, Jessica on ATWT, Mary May on GH. Today? Nada. I don't watch DOOL so I can't speak to Lexie but is there not room for more than one or two woman of color on daytime. Is there no place for a core minority on any show other than AMC? What is so hard about including people of different ethnicities, sexuality, body types, etc?

[DaytimeFan]

Canadian ratings for Y&R have not declined one iota for years...in fact, the city of Toronto has the highest per capita viewership of Y&R in the world. Peter Bergman once said that and he was right. And I am CERTAIN that this is because Y&R airs between 3-6 on Canwest Global stations...it's used as a lead in to either Oprah (or the Rosie O'Donnell show when it aired) or the News. Y&R has also been voted the most popular soap in Canada for like 10 years in Canadian TV Guide. ATWT is simulcast on Canwest Global with the CBS broadcast.

DAYS airs on the Canwest Global sister station CH.

B&B airs on CTV in Canada and it too nets excellent, stable ratings. It is simulcast with the CBS broadcast at 12:30. GH is simulcast with ABC on CTV as well.

That being said....there has been a drop in ratings for SOME shows. DAYS and GH do not net the same numbers they used to. In fact, AW was immensly popular in Canada (particularly the Martime provinces) and usually beat both shows in the ratings. The same cannot be said for Y&R and B&B...those shows still net good stable ratings and have done so for years.

[Southofnowhere]

How do AMC&OLTL do in the Great White North?

[DaytimeFan]

Both AMC and OLTL have suffered ratings erosion in Canada, although OLTL has never been a 'hit' with Canadian viewers to the degree AMC is. AMC and OLTL are both simulcast with ABC on A Channel, a competitor to Canwest Global's CH. AMC has always been pretty popular, due entirely to Susan Lucci, an actress who connects with Canadians...love her...but I don't get it myself.

[TC]

Interesting. Thanks DaytimeFan. In Quebec we haven't had local broadcast of AMC and OLTL since they were on CBC back in the 90's. (no A channel here). I get them from a station in Burlington, Vermont.

Someone told me Passions did better in Canada, when it was on GLOBAL, than in the US.

As for AW, back in the 70's it was among the top 5 of all shows, primetime or otherwise, and remained immensely popular nationwide up to the late 80's.

[DaytimeFan]

You're absolutely right TC Greene...Passions did do better in Canada, when it was Global, than in the US. It was a smash hit on Global.

And you sure got that right about AW, I dare say it was the most popular soap in Canada, ever. Huge smash hit. I remember when it ended it was announced on the local news on both the 6 and 11 pm newscasts.

[MarkH]

I think AMC got a big boost in Canada in the 1970s and 1980s when it was simulcast daily on CBC, the national network. That really built a base. It sure sucked me in. Pine Valley was my lunch companion in the summer and on school breaks and (sometimes manufactured) sick days.

Okay, but this is REALLY important stuff you're saying.

Canada and the US are different cultures, but not sooooooo different. Canada has more of a multicultural identity, and I do somehow think that soaps--because of the fundamental simplicity and continuity of their narratives--really draw in ethnic group members...especially those where the woman stays at home.

(I know whereof I speak: I raised by a German immigrant granny who was NOT fluent in English...but she sure understood the plot lines of AMC and OLTL and GH, and later Y&R. MAN she used to YELL at the duplicitous Audrey Hardy on GH, deceiving folks about the paternity of her child).

But, cultural differences aside, it is REMARKABLE if the shows have remained ratings stable.

So now I'm going to ask my big question request. You seem to know. How can I get the numerical ratings? Where can I find them?

Because if Canada is enjoying ratings stability, that means they are succeeding in maintaining loyal viewers, and replacing dying viewers with new ones. That's the formula that needs to come south of the border. The first step to doing that, however, is to document it for American eyes.

[brimike]

Maybe a bunch of us screaming for change should get together and pitch an American soap to Canadian television!

Toups, can you set this thing up?

:-)

[All My Shadows]

As far as the thing about soaps airing later in the afternoon, I can testify to that doing some good. I catch Baton Rouge's CBS station and they've aired Y&R daily at 4:00PM for as long as I can remember (at least 18-20 years). It's *never* budged, EVER, and I don't remember them EVER cutting in with special reports either. Even if it's raining cats and dogs and people's houses are being ripped apart (like today), they never, ever cut into Y&R.

To the person who said that soaps wouldn't survive at 30 minutes in length...hmm...for 20 years most soaps ran for 30 minutes, and those 20 years were definitely part of the golden age of soap opera. Low budgets would never be a problem for production, directing, and writing teams who know how to use what they have. "Dark Shadows" had a low budget and ran for 30 minutes, yet it's the one and only US soap that's endured through PBS, syndication, cable reruns, VHS tapes, AND DVD sales, not to mention yearly conventions, two theatrical films, a primetime revival series, etc.

[DaytimeFan]

I think Canadian and American viewing cultures are very different...rural or urban I think Canadians love their soaps, they enjoy the narrative structure, the simplicity of the narrative.

Now I said that Y&R and B&B have remained very stable. DAYS has had a bit of erosion, as has GH and AMC. AW had terrific ratings and was enormously possible right up until the end. Generally, however, the ratings are much more stable than in the USA.

I've seen yearly averages for ratings in the shareholder books for CTV Globemedia (much like the viewbook Disney provides stockholders)...I also wrote a paper on Canadian daytime viewing habits in college. Soaps were a part of it and I found some ratings info in academic journals. I can't remember them, but the evidence was very clear.

With the kind of creativity we've all displayed...SON would make an unbeatable soap (at least to Canadian audiences!)

[TC]

DaytimeFan, can you tell us anything about Coronation Street's move to 7pm in Canada? (I know, not during Hockey playoffs)

I remember watching it at 3pm, sometimes, and then sitting around naked with the husband on Sunday mornings with tea and homemade scones for the 2 1/2 hour Sunday marathon; the "omnibus" episode.

Corrie is very popular, but has the change to 7pm made a ratings differerence? TIA. Which airing garners more viewers? The half hour shows or the omnibus/marathon on Sunday morning?

[DaytimeFan]

The CBC moved Coronation Street to 7 pm because it draws big crowds. 7 pm advertising dollars are worth more than the afternoon at 3, so CBC decided to cash in! Bring in the money!

I think the half hour shows garner more viewers...the Sunday morning omnibus obviously has an audience, but I think it's used as a way to hook new viewers.